Mgh

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Johnisit1234

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I recently interviewed at MGH and was very pleasantly surprised. It seems to be strong and not as cutthroat as people have made it out to be. Anybody else interview here and agree or disagree?
What did people like/dislike?
 
I recently interviewed at MGH and was very pleasantly surprised. It seems to be strong and not as cutthroat as people have made it out to be. Anybody else interview here and agree or disagree?
What did people like/dislike?

Haven't interviewed there, but could you elaborate a little more on your thoughts on the program? It would make a great addition to the "2008 Interview Reviews" thread (hint, hint)...👍
 
I was there in November. Loved it. Definitely impressed by the place, and the lack of "malignancy". Said avg. hours over 4 weeks is 60 hours/week, which really surprised me. Lots of research opportunities (duh, MGH). I'll probably rank it really highly (and I love Boston).
 
I recently interviewed at MGH and was very pleasantly surprised. It seems to be strong and not as cutthroat as people have made it out to be. Anybody else interview here and agree or disagree?
What did people like/dislike?

I interviewed in November and felt the same way. I was surprised at how nice everyone was and how all the residents felt like it was a great place. I understand that they could just be putting on a huge show but I didn't get the "bull****" vibe that I am adept at picking up.

Will elaborate more in the AM.
 
You love boston? Ive been going to BU for the past 4 years. We just had a snow storm last week. over 5 inches. Right now its cold as hell and they STILL havent cleared most of the snow. And watch weatherbug.com because we have another snowstorm coming up soon. Yay boston!!!:laugh:
 
as a former MGHer - I can say it is truly non-malignant (except for cardiac - which sucks the life out of you for 2 months but is relatively cush if it weren't for surgical personality disorders)... and 99% of residents were/are really genuinely happy... but one thing that was never tolerated was laziness...
 
as a former MGHer - I can say it is truly non-malignant (except for cardiac - which sucks the life out of you for 2 months but is relatively cush if it weren't for surgical personality disorders)... and 99% of residents were/are really genuinely happy... but one thing that was never tolerated was laziness...

One thing I wondered about was what the reading expectations are? I had heard rumors that they expect you to read volumes and volumes, but again this is just talk from the rumor mill.
 
What's the interview day like? How many applicants? How many interviews, etc?

Also, how many residents per class?

Thanks.
 
What's the interview day like? How many applicants? How many interviews, etc?

Also, how many residents per class?

Thanks.

The interview day goes like this: There are two groups, the AM group and the PM group. I was in the PM group and it started around 11:30 (I think) with a tour of the facilities followed by a lunch with residents. While this is going on, the morning group is going through the last of their interviews and have completed their day by the end of the lunch. Both groups my day had four applicants and you rotate with three interviewers (one applicant sitting out with the cheif residents). Everyone interviews with Dr. Zapol and two other attendings. Cheif residents were both very nice and were happy to answer any questions. Interestingly, the cheif residents are actually considered attendings and there are four of them on a staggered start schedule. One thing I would suggest is going to the dinner the night before, I wasn't able to due to travel problems, but the evening begins with drinks at a local spot and then dinner at a very nice restaurant.

About the interviews, my interviews were all very relaxed compared to what I had heard and expected. Obviously they want to know what your interest in their program is and why you are choosing anesthesia, but it honestly wasn't as intimidating as I expected.
 
what do you mean the residents are like attendings? how many residents per class?

thanks a bunch !
 
The chief system is more like that found in internal medicine. One chief starts midway during CA-3 year and stays 6 months post residency graduation during which s/he is on staff with jr. attending salary to match. The other chief starts after residency graduation (exactly like medicine chiefs) and is staff (jr attending salary) for the entire year.


what do you mean the residents are like attendings? how many residents per class?

thanks a bunch !
 
Did the residents seem stuck up given that it's MGH, or were they more professional? I ask because another program in the northeast had a few residents who seemed very arrogant. Maybe this is my misinterpretation, however.

Also, how does MGH compare with B&W for those who've interviewed at both places.

Cheers.
 
As a current MGH CA-1, I have no regrets about choosing the residency program and thus far it has been great. Many if not most of the attendings working at MGH went through the residency program and many of them said they enjoyed residency. From my experience, the attendings I've worked with love to teach in the OR, are enthusiastic about anesthesiology, and seem reasonably happy with their jobs. They are very reasonable in their expectation that you shouldn't be lazy or indifferent about your job as a resident, but they expect that you also have limited experience and still don't know many things that will become second nature later on in your career.

A lot of people ask about didactics. We have a single one-hour lecture on a basic anesthesiology topic from 5-6pm Tuesday each week, year round. In addition to that, some rotations (not all) also have informal tutorials / group discussions at 6:30am 1-2 times a week. Some of the lectures are truly excellent and delivered by people who are experts in their field. Others are just average, i.e. what would happen if a random anesthesiology department pulled you or me (average joes) to deliver an average resident lecture about an average anesthesia topic. These are not amazing, but definitely no worse than any other anesthesia department in all their variability. The morning tutorials that happen in some rotations are much the same.

Reading is highly valued. A long time ago, one of our attendings advised me to "Just read 20 minutes a day, every day." I think that's not very much reading (and I certainly don't read 20 minutes a day consistently) but it does go a long way. Whatever the quality of the lectures (which I think are very decent if not even sometimes excellent), I think the prevailing feeling in the residency program is that lectures aren't very useful but reading is invaluable. But I don't feel "expected" to read an unreasonable amount.

I think the hours are pretty decent (except in certain rotations, you are usually relieved at 5pm if your room is not already done). CA-1 call in the main OR is about once a week, though you get more call as a CA-2 or CA-3 and during your SICU months. I don't feel that our program is malignant, and the residents definitely are not stuck up. We are a diverse mix of singles and marrieds and some also are parents. I don't think the staggered start inhibits your getting to know your CA-1 colleagues much, as they do get all of us together for social events and teaching once we've all started.

To answer the question about professionalism: Definitely not stuck up, and from what I've seen my co-residents are pretty professional at work. After work, though, some of them can get pretty noisy. 😀
 
I think there are two camps in anesthesia on this issue. I went to a school that emphasized how important the didactics are, and told us to ask about it everywhere we interview. Then when you go to the Harvard programs, and the attitude is "you are smart, you are an adult, and we are not going to force feed you." This is actually pretty common at a lot of top programs not just at MGH. Every place will have the weekly grand round and 60 minute lectures. The question is whether the lectures are protected time (how good is the attendance). Other programs have daily morning conference or noon lecture. No one really knows who is right, because it is rare to switch residency.
 
So, is time protected for the didactics?

Excellent and helpful responses!
 
The lectures and conferences are not just protected, they are mandatory, so attendance is naturally excellent. :laugh: I think officially the rule is that you are expected to miss didactics when you are post-call, on-call, on vacation, or out sick, and the rest of your attendance should make up to >70% (with the average attendance being about 90% from what I've been told). The education coordinator keeps track of this.

Whether didactics are really important or not depends on you. If you went religiously to all of your 1st and 2nd year medical school classes, then maybe didactics will make a difference for you in residency. If like me, you skipped most of your basic science lectures and stayed home to study instead, then mandatory didactics five times a week will be the bane of your existence and you'll consider them a waste of time. I appreciate a residency program where education is valued (by your attendings being willing to teach and talk about topics not only enthusiastically but expertly) but where I don't have to attend (too many) crappy didactics.

Don't be misled by programs showing off their morning didactics. If there's a conference or lecture at 6am, if it's not required its attendance will almost definitely be poor, and if it is required there will be decent attendance but it means you'll have to wake up and come in earlier than usual to set up your room for cases. If it's a good lecture, then it will have been worth it -- but if the attending stumbled in and didn't even remember s/he was supposed to lecture and mumbles some useless bull****, then you rolled out of bed early for a didactic session that was a waste of time.

Anyway that is my take on didactics. I'm on the extreme in preferring less didactics and more reading, but definitely some of my peers hate reading and like didactics, and still get by.
 
Helpful response...

How does MGH compare with B&W? If I recall correctly from checking their websites, it looks as though both programs take about the same number of residents. For anyone who's interviewed at both, or who's heard about either program, are they similar in terms of prestige, didactics, faculty devotion to teaching, etc. To this day, I have heard great things about both programs with no distinguishing factors.

Also, I have been to programs where didactics are offered EVERY day of the week. I have a hard time believing that all of these lectures are valuable. I think I'd prefer to sleep an extra 30-40 minutes and read in the pm. This worked during the first two years of med school, at least.

So it sounds like call at MGH is about q7 during first year. How much of an increase is expected during CA-2 to CA-3? Moreover, is research expected? Is the anesthesia dept a strong one compared with surgery, etc?

Thanks mate.
 
great replies!

Edelweiss, do you think MGH lives up to its reputation and mystique? i just wonder if it really is "better" than other programs. I know it has a reputation of putting out many chairs, etc, but that doesn't mean that going to say the BI will make one less of an anesthesiologist...

Thanks for your help with all of this and to all the other posters.
 
in my opinion any body who finishes residency and passes their written and oral boards is probably going to be able to practice well and safely....

i know some great anesthesiologists that came out of programs i had never heard of....

MGH and B&W --- i don't know what it is like now, but i remember that when i interviewed at MGH nobody bad-mouthed any of the other boston programs.... but when I interviewed at B&W and BI they constantly were comparing themselves to MGH and describing it in malignant terms..

then during my residency i got to work side by side with B&W and BI residents at children's - and on some other interesting rotations... they were all cool dudes/dudettes and were all very smart.... but the sense i got was that there was a lot more coddling at the Brigham (except for on OB after hours - because they weren't supervising residents putting in labor epidurals - don't know if that culture has changed considering medicare fraud laws).

so i would say that any of the three big programs in boston will provide good training - it just depends what atmosphere you enjoy more...
 
I recently interviewed at MGH as well. I was suprised to find out that 3 people from last year did not pass the written board. In addition, the program did not fill 4 spots last year and had to get 4 residents from outside the match. some residents also told me that the department is over-staffed that a few senior resident wanting a job there were denied.

also clinically there seems to be some weakness. the cardiac service is weak that residents barely get 20 pump cases in 2 months! the relationship with surgeons are so terrible that the head of cardiac anestheia had to step down and now the PD Baker is the chief.

The vascular service also seem to be weak that only half of the senior residents get to do an extra month of vascular. i heard that when you are a junior resident on vascular, you rarely have a chance to do any big cases such as AAA or TAA.

in addition, residents on interview told me that the regional experience has decreased significantly now. there barely any blocks to be done in the same day rotation.

I interviewed with Baker and did not find him to be the most friendly person. he seems to be very business like and not very warm or care about my personal life. When i talke to the residents about him, they also said that he is a very good clinian but they don't feel comfortable sharing anything with him about their personal life.

anyway, just something to think about. MGH is a great name but is it really a top program?
 
I guess what you're saying Tenesma then is: "Coddling" (B&W) vs. Malignant/Hard-Core (MGH)? 🙂 Look, MGH is a great place, all the Boston places are. Still, there's a reason MGH didn't fill last year. You can try to say didactics are unimportant, but they are. They are a foundation of a residency training program and tell a lot about the value a department puts on education. My impression of MGH: Do they still only have 2 weeks of vacation as a CA1? $500 book fund for all three years. Lacking in didactics. Lots of fellows. Attendings that weren't as personable. Residents seemed like a good group (although some were a bit too intense). Call structure that increased in frequency as you became more senior. Tenesma is right - some of the best anesthesiologists come from no-name programs so pick a place that best supplements your strengths and allows you to learn while having a nice balanced resident life. Good luck.
 
That is something that I noticed. When they put up their list of board pass rates, it wasn't as 'good' as other programs. What do people think of this?

Dr. Baker seemed friendly enough, just a bit intense -- probably falling along the lines of the typical MGH personality. what do other people think?
Edelweiss, what do you and your colleagues think of Dr. Baker?
 
The "MGH mystique" is of course not real, though many people including some MGH residents and attendings swear by it. For practical purposes, if you come out of your residency able to practice anesthesiology and become board certified, you got a good education. In that respect, MGH is nothing special. Don't get me wrong, there is a HUGE difference between an MGH residency and a residency at some community hospital where they regularly have trouble renewing their accreditation because they don't have enough cases to go around or enough faculty publications to be academic enough (and I interviewed at some of those too). But I doubt there is a huge difference between MGH and, say, Brigham or Columbia or Hopkins or Stanford. If you're deciding among big programs such as these, just pick the one you want.

If you're focused on Boston programs and trying to figure out how to order MGH, BWH and BID on your rank list, honestly I think all are decent places to work (lifestyle-wise) and people are happy at all three. If you rank BID first and match MGH instead, I still think you would be surprised how happy you are at MGH, and a lot of values (i.e. "friendly," "Harvard with a heart" etc) which people rank BID highly for are also to be found at MGH. Many people at other programs have a lot to comment about the MGH "malignant" myth, but most have never actually spent time at MGH, or only passed through for a day of interviews.

Time off is three weeks vacation and one week meeting (applicable to board exams such as Step 3 as well as conferences), totaling up to 4 weeks off per year. Book budget is $500 EACH year, totaling $1500 for the course of your entire residency (applicable to PDA but not laptop or board examination fees). As far as I am aware, CA-1 call is moderately less frequent than senior resident call at many residency programs, since as a CA-1 you are eligible only for main OR call and as you get more senior, the main OR senior resident pool shrinks because other senior residents are off doing cardiac, OB, etc months. CA-1s at MGH seem to do main OR call 3-4 times a month; I'm guesstimating that CA-2s and CA-3s may have main OR call maybe 5-7 times a month. Either way, it will be a breeze compared to your Q3 or Q4 surgery or medicine colleagues.

About passing the boards, and possible weaknesses in case numbers etc. You will find that wherever you work, some things are stronger than others and MGH is no different. We have stronger rotations and we have weaker rotations. That's the nature of any hospital. Don't be fooled by anyone who tells you "Our residency has no weaknesses." Regional experience, for example, is considered a strength at only a few hospitals across the country; in all others, it is not a strength. So it's a no-brainer, regional is not an MGH strength. The cardiac rotation is also not a strength and hasn't been for years and years. If you go to another residency program (Stanford, Duke, etc), maybe the weakness won't be cardiac but if it's not, it's probably something else. See if you can elicit what it is by asking around. Sometimes the residents will tell you. Sometimes they won't. When you are looking around at programs like MGH, all will have strengths and all will have weaknesses (and some don't tell you about their weaknesses), but your education is generally more than adequate.

About passing the boards, last year was the first time in a long time that people have had trouble. Prior to that, Dr. Baker used to stress that "Everyone passes the boards." I don't think there has been any major change in teaching at MGH so I can't offer any explanation for why. Dr. Baker said the same people also had previous red flags for performing poorly on their in-training exams in years prior. I do not personally have any major personal concerns (besides the usual medical student / resident exam angst) about passing my boards.

About the personality of the program director, this is something that I think needs to be put in context. We have a very large anesthesia department, I have no idea how big but to make numbers even let's say there are 100 attendings. When you hire 100 people, you get a huge variety of personalities. At one extreme of the bell curve, there are a few old-school alpha personalities and I suppose the PD is one of those. At the other extreme, there are a few attendings who show up to work, surf the internet over coffee all day, and then go home. In the middle are a greater majority of ordinary people who are mostly sincere, conscientious, and generally nice (as much as at any other place, anyway), many of whom also have families and other priorities outside of work. Dr. Baker is a good teacher and offers very sound, practical advice for your residency. He may not be Mr. Family Guy, but I think he is a strong PD, has a clear vision and has obviously thought a great deal about what works, what doesn't and how to improve the residency program. If you want advice on which local public/private school to send your kids to or recommendations for a contractor to fix your house, residents don't naturally go to Dr. Baker but there are 99 other attendings who can elaborate on these topics (and believe me, they do, sometimes at great length).

Are we an intense and hard-core program? Yeah, probably. I think we work very average, reasonable hours (generally relieved from your OR case at 5pm if it's still going) but the MGH program is 'intense' in that both faculty and residents are very enthusiastic about anesthesiology and take it very seriously. You don't have to be a workaholic to fit in. You do have to love anesthesiology. We all want to go home at the end of the day, but while you are at work you should relish every opportunity to discuss academic topics or take on challenging cases. That's what I think is the good thing about MGH, you get to soak in a lot of environmental enthusiasm about anesthesia while still having a pretty decent lifestyle and average work hours.
 
Is the ICU run by anesthesia dept or surgery dept? Are you guys sent away for any of your rotations? Say, for instance, if you wanted a broader cardiac experience, could you go to a hospital with more cardiac exposure?

Also, why is the chair leaving? I have heard there's a new one coming from UCSF.
 
First off, MGH is a Critical Care powerhouse. Enough said.

Second, Zapol is leaving because he's the crazy man who invented iNO, and he wants to do more research involve NO, not hindered by being a program director at a ginormous institution.

When he originally took the job, he said he was only doing it for 10 years anyhow... now 13 years later. He's staying at MGH to do research, and is apparently getting into some sweet research with NO coupling to synthetic blood products.
 
I've found a site that shows the accreditation length for anesthesia programs. B&W has 5 years for its cycle, while MGH has 3. Should one place a great deal of emphasis on results like these, or are they merely subjective?
 
Dr. Baker addressed during our interview day. He stated that the reason behind it was that they had some issues with the number of cardiac cases. I think this has been talked about in the posts above. He also stated that this had something to do with the number of attendings on overnight call (??). Didn't really get the last part.
He further said that they have remedied the situation and know that they will get 5 yrs in the next go round.

He snuck in a comment about how MGH and Hopkins are always the ones that get made examples of....
 
also if you ever planning on dabbling in the business world the only thing that these "business" people understand are BIG names --- so when you get to say Mass General they tend to be a lot more responsive...

this has of course NO implication on actual patient/clinical care...
 
I would agree with Tenesma on the business world - however I would argue that the Harvard name and not the MGH name is usually what grabs their attention (with a few exceptions). From my experience - the vast majority don't have a clue about the difference between MGH, B&W, and BID - all they get is Harvard and boy does it work.
 
Could you elaborate on what you mean by getting a favorable response from the business people? What kind of interactions have you had with business people? Did this occur when you were looking for a job upon graduation?

Interestingly, last week I met with a friend who's in the business world (he sells ortho supplies). He asked where I was looking to do residency. One of the locations I mentioned was Boston. He responded, "MGH?!?"

Clearly, even people outside of medicine understand that MGH (and perhaps the other two hospitals) are associated with Harvard Med School. I thought this was pretty cool.
 
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