COA won't cover bills

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onedayatatime

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Does anyone know what happens if you have some personal debt, and the COA won't cover your bills? Do you have to defer and is that even a possibility?
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You should contact your FA office and see if there's any possibility of them increasing your COA. I don't think they can specifically do it for CC debt, but they might be able to find something for you. Also, there are loans out there that allow you to borrow above the COA, but those are becoming harder and harder to find.

If worse comes to worst, your school might allow you to defer matriculation. Each school has their own policy for deferring.
 
onedayatatime said:
Does anyone know what happens if you have some personal debt, and the COA won't cover your bills? Do you have to defer and is that even a possibility?
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You just need to take out additional loans. You have available to you the GradPLUS and Perkins loans in addition to the Sub and Unsub Stafford...
 
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Sol Rosenberg said:
Not above the COA, you don't.
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Actually, most financial aid offices at medical schools will gladly allow you to have loans above the COA. They understand that you have other finances, and will increase your loan total above the COA to the max for things such as cars, emergencies, house payments, etc.

This may not be what you are used to in college, but medical school fin aid offices are much more flexible...
 
RockfordWF said:
Actually, most financial aid offices at medical schools will gladly allow you to have loans above the COA. They understand that you have other finances, and will increase your loan total above the COA to the max for things such as cars, emergencies, house payments, etc.

This may not be what you are used to in college, but medical school fin aid offices are much more flexible...
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First off, I have no idea how they do things in college these days, as it's been (ugh) over 12 years since I finished my master's and had to take out financial aid of any sort. When I did my post-bac, I paid cash, so I didn't interact with the finaid office of my local University.

What you are suggesting is done, I know, but that is an increase in COA. For what and by how much they will increase your COA is up to your specific financial aid office. During my med. school interviews, during the boring talks from the finaid people, I specifically remember some of the finaid people saying that they would not increase COA for cars or house payments. Emergencies and dependent care were things that most said they WOULD increase COA for. Fortunately, my medical school is pretty straightforward and has all this info in a nice table, which has COA vs. number in household and marital status.

http://www4.utsouthwestern.edu/stuaff/stuinfo/0203/tablea08.pdf

But, from the OP's question, I assume that he/she knows her ultimate COA, and thinks he/she needs loans above that to meet his/her expenses. For that situation you need to seek out private loans (including, possibly from relatives.) But the OP should definitely talk to his/her financial aid office about his/her situation and see what they say.
 
Thank you for the responses. Does anyone know of what private lenders will allow you to borrow over the COA?
 
RockfordWF said:
T.H.E.

northstar.org
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Well, this is getting back to a previous point, but T.H.E. doesn't allow you to borrow beyond the COA. Your school will need to increase your COA before T.H.E. will give you any additional loans. Changing the COA versus borrowing beyond the COA are very different things.
 
I just have to add that I'm in the same situation and it seems rediculous to have to scrap by when studying for boards.

To those of you that go to medical school with helpful FA offices, you should be thankful. My FA counselors have no advice for those struggling with personal debt and the school will not approve of student loans on top of COA.

Also how are students getting personal loans? For the ones I checked out, part of the eligibility requires a income.
 
Doctor Bagel said:
Well, this is getting back to a previous point, but T.H.E. doesn't allow you to borrow beyond the COA. Your school will need to increase your COA before T.H.E. will give you any additional loans. Changing the COA versus borrowing beyond the COA are very different things.
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This is incorrect. They offer several private loans that allow you to go beyond the limit. An example is the Residency & Relocation loan.
 
nrddct said:
I just have to add that I'm in the same situation and it seems rediculous to have to scrap by when studying for boards.

To those of you that go to medical school with helpful FA offices, you should be thankful. My FA counselors have no advice for those struggling with personal debt and the school will not approve of student loans on top of COA.

Also how are students getting personal loans? For the ones I checked out, part of the eligibility requires a income.
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GradPLUS & Residency/Relocation are both alternative loans that are available.

The Residency loan is only available for 4th years, and you can take it out up to $20,000 above COA (or at least that's how it worked for me.)
 
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I got the impression from surfing the net that myrichuncle is a shady company. Anyone with first hand knowledge?
 
i really have liked my experience with them. Occasionally the customer service people stink, but that's across the board. I call back and the next person is great.
 
In regard to myrichuncle.com, how does repayment work? On their website, it states that you can defer but on other websites, there was mention of paying a percentage of your income. That reeks of indentured servitude.
 
what other sites? You have some options. I picked deferred interest and principal and was under the impression I could defer through residency. At least the first 3 years. However, I plan on paying mine, so I didn't look too closely at that.
 
I just googled my rich uncle and skimmed through the first few pages of results , perhaps not the best approach. I have a meeting with my financial aid office this Friday to see if they can increase my COA first. I just like having plans A, B, and sometimes C just in case. Thanks for your input.
 
If they won't, just remember that all non-certified private loans are going to have relatively high interest rates, and fees. None of them are the most attractive option.I chose myrichuncle b/c they don't always have an income requirement for students like others do.
 
I am pleased to report that my school increased my COA so that I can pay my bills. I brought in a copy of my mortgage, electric, phone, fuel oil, and telephone bills and stated my case. She crunched some numbers and came up with the same figure that I requested so I should be good to go. So relieved. :)
 
Waywoe said:
I am pleased to report that my school increased my COA so that I can pay my bills. I brought in a copy of my mortgage, electric, phone, fuel oil, and telephone bills and stated my case. She crunched some numbers and came up with the same figure that I requested so I should be good to go. So relieved. :)
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Lucky duck. I called Loyola to try to do that, and they said it's illegal and that no school should be raising anyone's COA based on their mortgage payments. However, they did say they'd certify car payments/insurance, because they consider a car necessary to attend there.
 
...and my school won't cover car payments. Probably because on-campus housing is availabe. Money will be tight but I can make it work.
 
Wow, you are definitely lucky. My school won't raise the COA for anything. They basically say, "Well that sucks. Have a nice day." Won't even raise for car payments. Hell, they don't even raise the COA for the rise in gas prices.

Plus, our COA is based off of double occupancy ONLY.
 
akpete said:
Wow, you are definitely lucky. My school won't raise the COA for anything. They basically say, "Well that sucks. Have a nice day." Won't even raise for car payments. Hell, they don't even raise the COA for the rise in gas prices.

Plus, our COA is based off of double occupancy ONLY.
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Well, technically, when Loyola told me they'd certify car payments, they said they definitely would not raise the COA. I'm really confused about what exactly a certified expense is vs. part of your COA, but maybe someone else can weigh in here on that. How does it differ from the Grad plus loans that cover COA?
 
Phoenix. said:
Well, technically, when Loyola told me they'd certify car payments, they said they definitely would not raise the COA. I'm really confused about what exactly a certified expense is vs. part of your COA, but maybe someone else can weigh in here on that. How does it differ from the Grad plus loans that cover COA?
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Sorry, I was referring to Waywoe, whose school increased the COA for him/her.
 
akpete said:
Sorry, I was referring to Waywoe, whose school increased the COA for him/her.
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Ah. Well, Waywoe said that their school wouldn't raise their COA for car payments either.

Maybe you can see if your school will certify the expense instead? If there's no "on campus housing," you've obviously got a better bet with that fight.
 
Phoenix. said:
Well, technically, when Loyola told me they'd certify car payments, they said they definitely would not raise the COA. I'm really confused about what exactly a certified expense is vs. part of your COA, but maybe someone else can weigh in here on that. How does it differ from the Grad plus loans that cover COA?
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I'm really confused about this, too, so if you figure it out, let us know. :) I do know that certain loans (GradPlus and various other private educational loans) specifically state that they only cover the difference between the COA and your other financial aid, and other loans are totally outside of the FA office. So I guess there's an intermediate type of loan that covers reasonable expenses beyond the COA. Now I'm wondering if all medical students can get these loans or if certain schools work out deals with lenders.

AMDFAO, any thoughts?
 
Doctor Bagel said:
I'm really confused about this, too, so if you figure it out, let us know. :) I do know that certain loans (GradPlus and various other private educational loans) specifically state that they only cover the difference between the COA and your other financial aid, and other loans are totally outside of the FA office. So I guess there's an intermediate type of loan that covers reasonable expenses beyond the COA. Now I'm wondering if all medical students can get these loans or if certain schools work out deals with lenders.

AMDFAO, any thoughts?
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It sounded to me like Loyola would only certify expenses that they had deemed were necessary in order to attend their school. They specifically stated several times that a car (and thus any car payments and car insurance) was considered a necessary expense due to their suburban location. No idea what they'd say about gas, but I suppose it's something to ask them about. And apparently they've deemed non-reimbursed medical and dental expenses as well as contact/glasses expenses, AND medical school application costs as part of this certifiable group of expenses. My gut is that this is really going to vary school by school.

When I asked how this was done, they said to send in my letter requesting those expenses, and attach receipts. They would then determine the amount of the expenses to be certified. Then, they would certify those expenses to the lender that does my federal educational loans, and that I would get a more favorable interest rate on those certified expenses than I would through a private educational loan. But I have NO idea what that is, exactly, or what the rates/terms would be.

If I learn more, I'll let you know. For now I'm still trying to decide what to do. Within the next two weeks I have to let Loyola know who my lender will be, so I'll probably let them know it would be Chase for my federal loans. Then I guess I'd get my documentation together and submit a letter asking for some certified expenses. It's going to be rough documenting all of those secondary fees and interview expenses!

THEN, once we get to July, I guess I'll start trying to figure out whether I should get a private educational loan, a regular private loan, refinance or take out a home equity line of credit. Because it'd be insane to start any of that until I KNOW I'm not getting off a waitlist and moving. Then again, would I get a better rate if I refinanced right now before I took on all of the sub/unsub/plus loans? Hmmmm.

Man, this is painful.
 
I started a new thread with this before I saw this thread. So, here's what I posted about options when you go over your school's COA. I figure that there are a number of options depending on your situation:

Certification of Expenses:

Contact your school's financial aid office and see how they can help. While some schools seem willing to slightly raise your COA, others will not. If your school can't adjust your COA, see if they'll certify some expenses. From what I've heard from one school's financial aid office, they'll certify expenses like car loan payments, car insurance, non-reimbursed medical expenses, med school application expenses, etc. You'll have to provide them with receipts to justify these expenses. They said that if the expenses are certified, that you can get lower interest rates than for a private loan. Basically, (from what I've learned) the school would certify those approved expenses to your current loan provider (your grad plus lender?) and get you the lower rate and loan.

Private educational loan:

Now, from my investigations so far, for a private educational loan (this info is pursuant to a call to Chase), everything will depend on your credit rating. The interest rate could be anywhere from 6.12-12.6% and there may be origination fees of 0-4% as well. All payments may be deferred while in school. You do not need anyone to cosign unless you have bad credit.

Some private educational lenders I've seen bandied about are:

Chase
Edamerica
My Rich Uncle
Wells Fargo

One thing to consider is which private lender you can use that also does fed/plus loans, so that you can use just one lender for everything. I'm not sure about the others, but I know that Chase and Edamerica let you do everything through them.

Regular (non-educational) private loan:

For a regular private loan, the interest rate (and whether you will even qualify for a private loan) will depend entirely on your credit, and since most (if not all) of us won't have a job for the next four years, having a family member with income cosign will likely be necessary. Unlike the educational loan above, payments are not deferred.

Home Equity Line of Credit:

I'm an amateur with this stuff, but from what I've learned about home equity lines of credit, good credit is again required (cosign might be necessary), and you would get a line of credit on which you would draw down on as needed, so it wouldn't impact your EFC for subsequent years (i.e., you wouldn't have an excess of cash sitting in an account somewhere). Here's what I got from someone at Chase about this:

The home equity line could be drawn as needed, and the rate is Prime less 1/2 of 1%. The Prime Rate is currently 5.25%. There is the risk of the Prime rate rising in addition to the risk of adding debt to your home. There is the possibility of locking in rates on the Home Equity Line as you draw portions, but there is a significant premium to do this. A co-signer on the home equity line may be needed; a cosigner would need to provide a personal financial statement and two years' tax returns.
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Seems like it'd be risky to use a home equity line of credit since the rate is so variable. As for "locking" the rate in, I haven't looked into yet what a "significant premium" means exactly. And I'm sure things vary by lender.

Refinance an Existing Mortgage:

If you put a decent chunk of change down on your place or it's appreciated since you purchased it, another possibility is refinancing and/or getting a larger mortgage. My concern with that is that the amount you'll get out of this transaction would count against you for purposes of EFC in subsequent years. Then you'd have to cover even more privately. I'm not sure where the balance would be where you could "take out" enough but not impact your EFC so much that you wouldn't qualify for sub/unsub/plus loans. And of course, you'd have to make even higher mortgage payments throughout school.

Cash

Similarly, if you've been able to save some money, holding that money in a checking account or somewhere you could get to it easily would impact your EFC and you'd need to cover even more yourself. Also, if you're only able to cover a year or two of extraneous expenses, should there be a concern about what the private lending market will look like in a year or two? Perhaps putting it off is a bad idea and it'd be better to put that cash into your home and refinance as detailed above?

My head is spinning. Anyone else want to discuss the pros and cons of some of the above? Argh.
 
My best guess for Dr B:
Your eligibility for Fin Aid is based on your COA (estimated cost). The higher your cost, the more likely you are to be eligible for better types of aid. If your COA was $5000 and your EFC was $5000 you would receive an Unsub loan. If I increase your COA to $15,000 you would now be eligible for a sub loan (taxpayer's pay the interest while deferred). Your COA really can alter the landscape in all this and that is why the feds put a limit of "reasonable" on everything.
Schools need to come up with a COA and cannot allow the combination of aid to exceed it. What I am gathering from the "certified" loan is that the amount is not included in the package to meet the COA and thus cannot be covered by Federal Loans. When schools certify a federal loan or alternative ed loan they are stating to the lender the combo does not exceed the COA. Lenders and the feds like this to decrease their risk when they loan money-- the more you borrow, the higher the odds you can't pay it back. Besides, there's only so much money in the pot and the taxpayers are only going to pick up so much in special allowance payments and subsidies to lenders.
Common "certified" loans I would be familiar with would be a res/relocation loan (to cover costs I could not include in your COA to determine your fed eligibility but you still need to finish and reach your goal as an MD). From a purist FA standpoint, I'm not so sure how an FA person could be certifying on the side other loans. Last time I checked there wasn't anything in the regs that said: "oh those don't really count" especially if the lender is the same in both cases for things that should be in the basic COA-- rent, food, transport etc. If I couldn't raise your COA for the expense (car payments, mortgage, credit card, old ed loans) I wouldn't be "certifying" it in another loan.
Schools have flexibility to increase your costs but anytime they allow you more, they need to be able to defend it in an audit. I've seen a case where the school funded a live in nanny w/ paid vacations and holidays. I'm not sure who would ever think that was appropriate but they increased and funded it. It didn't go over well in the audit. Remember, anytime we treat you differently and allow you more we have to be able to back it with documents (receipts etc). Make sure you have a clear understanding of what is allowed before you move to school.
The "certified loan" Phoenix describes is an alternative loan: no fed backing and no fixed rate. The fact that a lender would be willing to loan you this doesn't mean you have to accept-- think the mortgage crisis. You are all borrowing money for something you can't afford now but hopefully should be able to later unless tragedy occurs (I'm always a hope for the best/prepare for the worst kinda girl). You don't want to base 4 years of spending on anyhting more than you can count on just in case. There may be a dry up on the "certified" loans as the credit market tightens. I'm not sure having the extra above the COA to meet your basic expenses is such a hot idea. If the lender can't loan you the extra next year, what do you do? Sell the house? No one's buying... Leave school to get a job? Have the car repo'd? Weigh the risk of everything over 4 years and have a contingency plan in place.
Home equity: I'm not seeing the benefit to be honest. The rate on fed loans is higher in comparison BUT they come with a multitude of benefits like deferment, forbearance, forgiveness, income contingent repayment. Last time I checked no home equity will offer any of that and the only way you earn the salary of a Doc (or Dentist) is when you finish. I would disuade any of my kids from even thinking of it (well, they could think but would defininitely conclude it's not a good idea). Same with a refi and cash out on the house. Not such a good idea.
Co-signers. Yup, don't like those either even if your rate is reduced a bit. Use them only as a last resort when your back is against the wall. I'm not sure having a co-signer question your financial decisions for the next 5 years would be worth it. Imagine your co-signer sitting at their kitchen table complaining how you went on holiday to the Bahamas instead of paying the loan they co-signed on. Do you really want that in your life? Borrowing is not always about interest and rates.
 
AMDFAO said:
Home equity: I'm not seeing the benefit to be honest. The rate on fed loans is higher in comparison BUT they come with a multitude of benefits like deferment, forbearance, forgiveness, income contingent repayment. Last time I checked no home equity will offer any of that and the only way you earn the salary of a Doc (or Dentist) is when you finish. I would disuade any of my kids from even thinking of it (well, they could think but would defininitely conclude it's not a good idea). Same with a refi and cash out on the house. Not such a good idea.
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Hmmm. Good point. I would have to continue making payments. I looked into this through my current mortgage lender, and my interest rate would be 5-5.5% depending on how big the line of credit is. No fees. And I liked the idea of only taking out what I needed. But the changing interest rate (with prime) is a little worrisome. I could lock it in, but it'd be locked at 7.5%. I just figure if I'm going to do this, I should do it now before I sign up for all the fed loans. But now I'm thinking maybe I should just go with a regular private educational loan at about 6.12% with deferred payments. So, do you get one lump sum? Or do you apply each year for exactly how much you think you'll need for the year? I'm a little confused about this.

Co-signers. Yup, don't like those either even if your rate is reduced a bit. Use them only as a last resort when your back is against the wall. I'm not sure having a co-signer question your financial decisions for the next 5 years would be worth it. Imagine your co-signer sitting at their kitchen table complaining how you went on holiday to the Bahamas instead of paying the loan they co-signed on. Do you really want that in your life? Borrowing is not always about interest and rates.
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Well, I see your point, but I'm in my 30s, and it would likely be my grandmother cosigning. I'm not remotely concerned with her complaining or second-guessing about what I'm doing. If so, is it generally better to take out private loans rather than private educational loans? Obviously there won't be any deferment like with an educational loan, so I'm trying to figure out how much of a benefit it really would be. I'll have to call around and see what the interest rates are (I've got great credit, luckily). But how does this work? Do you get one lump sum payment of the loan money? If not, I'd have to apply again next year, and imagine it would be harder to get a private loan next year once I've got a ton of federal loans on my rap sheet. And if I do take one lump loan out to cover the four years, will that count against my in my EFC? Or not, since the money in my account would be balanced by the debt? I'm sure these are stupid questions, but I'm sure there are probably a few other confused souls out there like me.....

Thanks for any advice!
 
I'm in shock right now. I just spoke to Chase, and they said that while there's a $40,000/year cap on private educational loans if you're an undergrad, the grad student limit is by school. And for med students of Loyola, you can only get a Chase private educational loan up to $5,000/year! HUH?

For others out there that have expenses above the COA, has anyone encountered this at Chase? Or elsewhere?
 
Doctor Bagel said:
Bank of America announced that they're dropping out of the private loan business. I know they used to be a lender used for above COA loans.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24187310/
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As far as I can tell, other than the $5,000/year you can get through the Chase private educational loan (which may be more or less depending on which med school you go to), the only other option would be a home equity line of credit (if you've got a home).

Today has definitely been a stressful day. I ignorantly and blissfully thought I could take out a large private educational loan and keep my condo in downtown Chicago. Now I realize that's just not possible, and I definitely have to move to the burbs where the school is located.

So now I need to decide whether to sell my place and buy a cheaper place in the burbs, or rent my place out and rent a cheaper place for myself in the burbs and use a home equity line of credit for my expenses above the COA. Financially, I realize it will make a lot more sense to sell my place and buy one in the burbs, but I'm bummed because I doubt I'd qualify for a loan in four years if I wanted to move back to the city for residency (who would give me a loan with potentially $250,000 in educational debt and only $40k salary?). Guess I should give up thoughts of home ownership as a resident. Or remain in the burbs. I know it's not the end of the world, just hard realities I was ignorant of. Never thought I'd be leaving the city to live in the burbs.

Anyone else dealing with this? I wonder what most non-trads will do with their mortgage and higher living expenses.... I cringe at the thought of having to make this work with a family as well. Kudos to those of you who face that.
 
Hey all, I wandered over here from the clinical psych forum. I'll be starting a phd program in the fall and I've never had to deal with financial aid before so I've got a question. My school's COA is around 17k. I've got a full tuition waver (tuition about 10k) and a 5k stipend. Does that mean I would only be able to get 2000 in loans?

Thanks for the help!
 
moonflwr said:
Hey all, I wandered over here from the clinical psych forum. I'll be starting a phd program in the fall and I've never had to deal with financial aid before so I've got a question. My school's COA is around 17k. I've got a full tuition waver (tuition about 10k) and a 5k stipend. Does that mean I would only be able to get 2000 in loans?

Thanks for the help!
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I believe that's so - you'd only be able to get stafford/grad plus/certified loans of $2,000. However, Chase will give you a little more as a personal educational loan depending on your school, and I've heard Edamerica does too (although I haven't confirmed that yet myself).
 
Phoenix. said:
Private educational loan:

Now, from my investigations so far, for a private educational loan (this info is pursuant to a call to Chase), everything will depend on your credit rating. The interest rate could be anywhere from 6.12-12.6% and there may be origination fees of 0-4% as well. All payments may be deferred while in school. You do not need anyone to cosign unless you have bad credit.

Some private educational lenders I've seen bandied about are:

Chase
Edamerica
My Rich Uncle
Wells Fargo

One thing to consider is which private lender you can use that also does fed/plus loans, so that you can use just one lender for everything. I'm not sure about the others, but I know that Chase and Edamerica let you do everything through them.
Click to expand...

I've talked to a number of lenders, and this will no longer be an option because of pending legislation. All educational loans which can be deferred will have to be certified by your school before you get them. From what my financial aid office is saying, certification means raising the COA. This sucks.
 
SketchLazy: Chase, MyRichUncle, & Edamerica's websites still offer uncertified student loans. Which lenders did you speak with, and have they already stopped making these uncertified loans or will this happen later (if so, when)? What legislation are they referring to?
 
Chase dropped un-certified private medical school loans too.

My rich uncle, PNC, Wells Fargo and Sun Trust are the ones that I've found so far that are still offering them. :thumbup:
 
rgerwin said:
When will this happen?
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I've called chase, citi, wells fargo and sallie mae, and I've been told that I can't get these loans for the 2008-2009 year. I think it will be in effect during that time so lenders won't be giving money without certification from now on. I haven't called myrichuncle or edamerica yet though. This might be specific to my school but I don't know.
 
This "pending legislation" is a tremendously negative development for students who need uncertified loans. The Senate and the House are still working on the final bill, however. See here:
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=5&docID=cqmidday-000002716933

The House has passed HR 4137, and the Senate has passed S 1642, but negotions over the final combined version were delayed (yet again) this week.

 Way I see it, there is still time to get an uncertified loan. It will probably take months before the Senate and the House agree, draft the bill, vote, and send the bill to the president.
 
prionsRbad said:
My rich uncle, PNC, Wells Fargo and Sun Trust are the ones that I've found so far that are still offering them. :thumbup:
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Can you provide a link to the PNC uncertified loan? Can't see on their website where it says they actually send the check to you. Thanks!
 
I just got one from MRU. I suggest you do anything you need now. The thing is, I dont know if this is actually law yet. What a terrible development.
 
SDG490 said:
Can you provide a link to the PNC uncertified loan? Can't see on their website where it says they actually send the check to you. Thanks!
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It's not listed. You have to call them. :)
 
After calling the lenders listed in this thread, and asking customer service reps, these are some of the lenders that will still offer non-certified loans this year:

Myrichuncle - http://myrichuncle.com/
up to $70,000 in non-certified money with funds sent directly to you
Rate attached to quarterly Libor with current rates at 5.6% (depending on credit)
0% origination fess (depending on credit)

PNC National Collegiate Loan - http://www.eduloans.pncbank.com/xNCL/gradncl.htm
up to $30,000 in non-certified money with funds sent directly to you
Rate attached to quarterly Libor+4.65% or 7.5% (depending on credit)
5-10% origination fees, depending on credit
.25% reduction with auto-debit

Educap - http://www.loantolearn.com/
couldn't get information but was referred by representative from EdAmerica

Lenders that no longer provide non-certified loans:

Sallie Mae
EdAmerica
Citi
Chase

Get 'em while they're hot and please drink responsibly.
 
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