Carribean Med schools

I read that they are all about Sun, Sand, and Surf, and you need at least a 45 spf to get in.

rockmed said:

I was researching about med schools and found out that if you get less MCAT score then you can do 18 months at the Carribean Med school and then transfer to a US Med school. Can anyone elaborate on what Carribean med schools are about and what scores they look at etc. How to apply to those schools. thanks you in advance

Click to expand...

Check out the Caribbean forum and it will give you most of the answers you are looking. It is further down on the main page.

Transferring back to a US MD is hard. First, they have to have a spot and then they look down on the Caribbean. I have heard of some students doing it but not many. DO NOT expect to go down there and get into a US MD. You can go there and get a MD and become a practicing MD in the US.

It is not a backdoor but a last resort!

J DUB said:

Check out the Caribbean forum and it will give you most of the answers you are looking.

Click to expand...

Yeah, right!

At least the OP will be entertained while looking for a glimpse of any sort of factual information.

I think the advice you gave the OP was probably the most accurate and succinct he/she will ever find in that forum.

You can also check out www.valuemd.com

Shinken said:

Yeah, right!

At least the OP will be entertained while looking for a glimpse of any sort of factual information.

I think the advice you gave the OP was probably the most accurate and succinct he/she will ever find in that forum.

Click to expand...

That's where I got my info and a little from ValueMD.

Now, you do have to read around some, lol!!

rockmed said:

Thank you! If you get a Carribean MD, do you still have to write USMLE to practice in the US? How tough is it to get Residency in the US?

Click to expand...

You still have to take all the Steps and pass just like US MDs. I also believe there is a FMG exam you have to pass as well.

Getting a residency is possible since supply is greater than demand at the moment overall. FM, IM, and Psy are all good chances. More competitive residencies are another thing. To get those you have to go beyond the call of US MD usually. Great board scores, LORs, etc.

There are four Caribbean med schools that allow you to practice in all 50 states: SGU, Ross, AUC, and SABA. They are know as the "big 4". In fact, the first 3 have federal loans.

Check out the ValueMD link above because they have forums with current med students at these schools and can give more accurate info.

how does the teaching of the "big 4" compare with united states medical schools.....

do they prepare you well for the boards ? just curious....

pdlaw2000 said:

I read that they are all about Sun, Sand, and Surf, and you need at least a 45 spf to get in.

Click to expand...

What is this suppose to mean? Carib Medical education is a viable way becoming an MD, just google St. George's University School of Medicine, and Ross University and Chief Residents and see how many results you get, also an instructor of the Radiation Oncology Department at Harvard is a Caribbean Medical Graduate, she also happens to have completed her residency at Johns Hopkins.
You should know better being a lawyer and reading your previous posts. Going to a carib medical school versus a US one is kind of like getting into a t14 law school versus a tier3 or 4, yes it may be harder to get into the top law firms coming from a tier 3 or 4, but not all law grads want to work for the big law companies and not all t14 grads get the top position automatically, its all what you want and how much you put into it...

To answer the last poster, the top 4 carib schools are a great option to consider. It has harsher living conditions and may have to jump a few more hoops, but you will be an MD in the end. The first 2 years are alot of self teaching anyhow, you will be doing alot of memorization on your own and preparing yourself for StepI, your clinicals will be done side to side with alot of US med students, so your education will be on par to say that least.

You are right that was a very insensitive and insulting remark, I am so sorry, I feel bad that I even had a little chuckle after posting it.

Who knows I might have to look at one of those schools myself.

Nasem said:

how does the teaching of the "big 4" compare with united states medical schools.....

do they prepare you well for the boards ? just curious....

Click to expand...

I really can not answer the teaching question since I have not attended one of these school; however, I know they take the same courses for the most part. Clinical years are usually in the US with other US MDs.

Overall, they give you a chance and you have to make the most of the opportunity no matter where you go. It is still up to you to learn the material.

It does seem that many of the Caribbean schools do put alot of prep into the Steps especially Step 1. If you look at their match list, they are not that bad. You can get what you need there with hardwork and a few more hurdles.

J DUB said:

I really can not answer the teaching question since I have not attended one of these school; however, I know they take the same courses for the most part. Clinical years are usually in the US with other US MDs.

Overall, they give you a chance and you have to make the most of the opportunity no matter where you go. It is still up to you to learn the material.

It does seem that many of the Caribbean schools do put alot of prep into the Steps especially Step 1. If you look at their match list, they are not that bad. You can get what you need there with hardwork and a few more hurdles.

Click to expand...

I know a few students who rotated thru with us (allopathic, midwestern). It seems they/caribbean have some connections with the veterans affairs hospitals. I found them pretty competent. They had to really work the phones, arrange travel, living arrangements, etc., etc. in the cities they went to. You really have to be a go getter to make it happen and you will spend a significant amount on temporary housing, travel, etc. Most, it seemed tried to get rotations @ hospitals in their home state/city to save some. But, they where spending at least 30% more for their education.

If it were me, I would exhaust my opportunity to get in a US school... i.e., rejected 2 or 3 times. Then, consider DO. The only thing about being a DO, is the constant having to explain to your family, friends, and people who are just plain ignorant, that a D.O. is not a chiropractor, a dentist, yes i am a doctor and no...blahh, blah, blah. I could see where the minor chip could come from. It sucks, but that is also reality.

Another couple of pluses on the side of a carribean school, 1: You can go straight through and complete med school in around three years, 2: You can do your clinicals in England and Ireland, in addition to anywhere in the US, which is a plus if you enjoy other cultures and\or are prone to adventure and bouts of wanderlust.

Call me crazy, but a year and a half of living within a short walk of world class snorkling sights and then another year and a half of living between the UK, Ireland, and NYC doesnt sound like a bad way to spend one's time(even if a lot of that time is spent hovering over a desk). But to each his or her own. I dont know about you other non-trads, but as I get older I find myself becoming more concerned with enjoying the journey rather than rushing to some mirage of a destination.

I have a buddy who recently go accepted to Ross University (which I recommended to him). His GPA was 3.5-ish and his MCATs were around 30.

I know that they have internships in Florida, Ohio, New York and California.

I would recommend that you look into Ross University. Any other Caribbean schools, you would be taking a big risk.

Good Luck!

Remember: A doctor, is a doctor, is a doctor.

NE Ohio Penguin said:

I have a buddy who recently go accepted to Ross University (which I recommended to him). His GPA was 3.5-ish and his MCATs were around 30.

I know that they have internships in Florida, Ohio, New York and California.

I would recommend that you look into Ross University. Any other Caribbean schools, you would be taking a big risk.

Good Luck!

Remember: A doctor, is a doctor, is a doctor.

Click to expand...

I am from the youngstown area too. I'm not proud of it though, it's not the greatest city!

goodlookinrebel said:

Another couple of pluses on the side of a carribean school, 1: You can go straight through and complete med school in around three years, 2: You can do your clinicals in England and Ireland, in addition to anywhere in the US, which is a plus if you enjoy other cultures and\or are prone to adventure and bouts of wanderlust.

Call me crazy, but a year and a half of living within a short walk of world class snorkling sights and then another year and a half of living between the UK, Ireland, and NYC doesnt sound like a bad way to spend one's time(even if a lot of that time is spent hovering over a desk). But to each his or her own. I dont know about you other non-trads, but as I get older I find myself becoming more concerned with enjoying the journey rather than rushing to some mirage of a destination.

Click to expand...

Don't agree that it's realistic to expect to get through in 3 years. Maybe you can shave a few months off if you can schedule clinicals with little to no lag time. The consensus on these forums is to not make decisions based solely on getting through school or residency more quickly. Also, avoid schools that offer distance learning or advanced standing for non-MD (dental, chiropractic, optometry) coursework.

BitingPlates said:

I am from the youngstown area too. I'm not proud of it though, it's not the greatest city!

Click to expand...

My wife's from Y-Town, went to Mooney. It's not too bad, actually, but it would be nice if there were more (and better) jobs.

I've said this many time; I'll strongly, I mean strongly rec'd against carribean sch. apply to states sch first (atleast 2 appl circle) before considering offshore.

NE Ohio Penguin said:

I
Remember: A doctor, is a doctor, is a doctor.

Click to expand...

But a residency is not a residency is not a residency. If you want to practice in the US, your best odds of getting to where you want are to go to med school in the US. Only after you have exhausted attempts at this should you look into offshore options. Sure, some percentage of folks who go to school offshore get US residencies. But it isn't anything close to the 94+% of US allo students who match and scramble. And the statistic everyone seems to miss is that the offshore schools have huge attrition rates. Meaning a large percentage of folks won't graduate with an MD. Attrition is pretty nominal stateside, so it's a huge difference.

Law2Doc said:

But a residency is not a residency is not a residency. If you want to practice in the US, your best odds of getting to where you want are to go to med school in the US. Only after you have exhausted attempts at this should you look into offshore options. Sure, some percentage of folks who go to school offshore get US residencies. But it isn't anything close to the 94+% of US allo students who match and scramble. And the statistic everyone seems to miss is that the offshore schools have huge attrition rates. Meaning a large percentage of folks won't graduate with an MD. Attrition is pretty nominal stateside, so it's a huge difference.

Click to expand...

..strongly agree!
currently; +news of the establishment of new US med sch & the AMA/AAMC pushing for incr # of admission per class at all US med sch. For those of you going to the Caribbean, it would be more difficulty to match for residency training.

goodlookinrebel said:

1: You can go straight through and complete med school in around three years,

Click to expand...

I know schools is Belize where you can do it in two, but they ain't getting US residencies. If you're planning on trying for a US residency, don't plan on doing your degree in less than four years. At most you can shave off a rotatio or two without being much less competitive.

goodlookinrebel said:

2: You can do your clinicals in England and Ireland, in addition to anywhere in the US, which is a plus if you enjoy other cultures and\or are prone to adventure and bouts of wanderlust.

Click to expand...

Ugh, if you have a big urge for adventure or wanderlust, take a year or two off between undergrad and medical school. Med school is just not the time to scratch that itch.

If you have to go to a Carrib school, you want to do every rotatio possible in the U.S. You might do one or two in another country if you'd like (which, incidentally, you can also do from a US Allopathic school), but if you do all of your rotations in another country, you're killing the one advantage Carrib schools have over schools from most other countries: the ability to do US rotations.

You are at a disadvantage as a Carrib grad. You can still do great things, but you are at a disadvantage. The pecking order for residency selection is rough:

US Allopathic > US Osteopathic >> Carrib Big Three >> Everybody else

You need to work every angle and scrape every Step 1 point you have to get a decent residency. If you're fine with doing family practice in rural Arkansas, you'll probably be fine, but anything more competitive and you'll want to watch your p's and q's.

Law2Doc said:

Sure, some percentage of folks who go to school offshore get US residencies. But it isn't anything close to the 94+% of US allo students who match and scramble. And the statistic everyone seems to miss is that the offshore schools have huge attrition rates. Meaning a large percentage of folks won't graduate with an MD. Attrition is pretty nominal stateside, so it's a huge difference.

Click to expand...

This bears repeating. Even at the Big Three, a whole lot of people never make it as far as the Step 1.

J DUB said:

I really can not answer the teaching question since I have not attended one of these school; however, I know they take the same courses for the most part. Clinical years are usually in the US with other US MDs.

Overall, they give you a chance and you have to make the most of the opportunity no matter where you go. It is still up to you to learn the material.

It does seem that many of the Caribbean schools do put alot of prep into the Steps especially Step 1. If you look at their match list, they are not that bad. You can get what you need there with hardwork and a few more hurdles.

Click to expand...

I attend AUC... I can tell you 95% of our professors are U.S. M.D.'s & PHDs.... First & second semester you mainly have PHDs (including a former from John's Hopkins School of Medicne, mr. lMX1b)...3rd semester you mostly have M.D.'s teaching (for path M.D.'s from the states,etc...). All of the ICM classes (intro to clinical medicine) are taught by U.S. M.D.'s... We also contract 2 or 3 visiting M.D.'s / PHDs per semester from U.S. medicial schools to teach various subjects in each course.... I can say the education at AUC is spectacular it's just we don't get the respect like a U.S. school since it was set up in the Caribbean....

rockmed said:

I was researching about med schools and found out that if you get less MCAT score then you can do 18 months at the Carribean Med school and then transfer to a US Med school. Can anyone elaborate on what Carribean med schools are about and what scores they look at etc. How to apply to those schools. thanks you in advance

Click to expand...

First you dont transfer to a US school. Transferring from a US MD school to another US MD school is near impossible. From the carribean it is even harder.


I'll just sum up what has already been said:

While the carribean schools will get you to the final destination of becoming a doctor they also bring with them extra hurdles that US schools do not. For this reason, it is better to try your hand at getting into a mainland school first before considering the carribean

Some of the hurdles:
1) higher attrition rate
2) Much lower board pass rate
3) Harder time matching

Do you research before applying.

I thought the growth of osteopathic schools pretty much nullified the necessity to go to the carribean. While a DO is not an MD it will get you into the U.S. residency match system. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you get that from a foreign MD school.

BTC said:

I thought the growth of osteopathic schools pretty much nullified the necessity to go to the carribean. While a DO is not an MD it will get you into the U.S. residency match system. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you get that from a foreign MD school.

Click to expand...

DO's are still relatively small in number (only 1900 applied for last year's match compared to about 15,000 US allo students and 11,000 foreign educated students) and must take the USMLE (in addition to their own COMLEX) to apply for the US allo residency match system. Foreign students also must take the USMLE to apply for the match. DO students match at a higher percentage than Caribbean students (72% as compared to 45%), plus osteopaths have their own residencies they can apply for in numerous specialties, so statistically it is a superior starting point compared to offshore from which to enter the match. So yeah, coming from an offshore school you have high attrition, statistically a lower percentage pass the boards, and the statistically a much lower chance of matching. Some number of folks still manage to scramble into an unfilled spot, but the odds of getting a choice, coming from offshore, are pretty bleak.

Law2Doc said:

DO's are still relatively small in number (only 1900 applied for last year's match compared to about 15,000 US allo students and 11,000 foreign educated students) and must take the USMLE (in addition to their own COMLEX) to apply for the US allo residency match system. Foreign students also must take the USMLE to apply for the match. DO students match at a higher percentage than Caribbean students (72% as compared to 45%), plus osteopaths have their own residencies they can apply for in numerous specialties, so statistically it is a superior starting point compared to offshore from which to enter the match. So yeah, coming from an offshore school you have high attrition, statistically a lower percentage pass the boards, and the statistically a much lower chance of matching. Some number of folks still manage to scramble into an unfilled spot, but the odds of getting a choice, coming from offshore, are pretty bleak.

Click to expand...

I thought DO's don't have to take the USMLE for the less competitive residencies (like primary care's IM, family, pediatrics)....

Nasem said:

I thought DO's don't have to take the USMLE for the less competitive residencies (like primary care's IM, family, pediatrics)....

Click to expand...

Then you thought wrong. If you want to participate in the allo match, you have to take the USMLE I believe. Otherwise, how else can they compare allo and osteo applicants?

Law2Doc said:

Then you thought wrong. If you want to participate in the allo match, you have to take the USMLE I believe. Otherwise, how else can they compare allo and osteo applicants?

Click to expand...

Actually it depends on the allopathic residency you are applying to, many accept the COMLEX. Also though many don't accept it and some that do accept would rather see a USMLE

MLT2MT2DO said:

Actually it depends on the allopathic residency you are applying to, many accept the COMLEX. Also though many don't accept it and some that do accept would rather see a USMLE

Click to expand...

OK, I guess that could be true, but it's definitely not primary care specialties per se like the prior poster suggested. Looking at the ERAS forms, it sure looks like osteopaths are supposed to list a USMLE score if they are applying for the allo match. But maybe my reading comprehension skills are off on this.

Is Ross really a Caribbean med school? Or is it a US school that has a campus in the Caribbean?

BTW, Caribbean is with one R and two B s.

quietly80 said:

Is Ross really a Caribbean med school? Or is it a US school that has a campus in the Caribbean?

BTW, Caribbean is with one R and two B s.

Click to expand...

Ross is a caribbean school. It is not LCME accredited. It does have some agreements with one or more US hospitals at which its students can do rotations. But your degree is from a non-accredited caribbean school.

pdlaw2000 said:

I read that they are all about Sun, Sand, and Surf, and you need at least a 45 spf to get in.

Click to expand...

This is really all you need to know.

Somehow calling medical schools "The big 4" does not belong in the same sentence as the Caribbean. lol

The Big 4, to the rest of the pre-med world, one would guess to be Harvard, Hopkins, WashU, and Penn (or UCSF).

Give me a break... lol...."the big 4"... let me catch my breath here...

HopkinsGrad said:

Somehow calling medical schools "The big 4" does not belong in the same sentence as the Caribbean. lol

The Big 4, to the rest of the pre-med world, one would guess to be Harvard, Hopkins, WashU, and Penn (or UCSF).

Give me a break... lol...."the big 4"... let me catch my breath here...

Click to expand...

Yeah, every grouping is going to have it's own hierarchy, but when you start ranking "the best of the worst" you are kind of grasping at straws. I do agree that if you have to go to the caribbean, there are a couple of schools that give you a better shot at returning stateside, and a larger number of schools that are happy to take your money and leave you with a useless degree. But no matter how you slice it the US med schools have higher board pass rates, higher match rates, and negligible attrition compared to any caribbean counterpart. If you want to practice in the US there is no comparable path than getting your medical education in the US. Use the caribbean as a "second chance" if you can't get into a LCME accredited school after adequate attempts. If you get to that stage, then sure, you can start mulling whether one gives you a better shot than another. But as the above poster suggested, there is a certain amount of public relations hype in calling a "second chance" school "the big 4", because they are really the big 4 you look at when the bigger 130 don't pan out.

About the ERAS and USMLE for DO students... it is not a requirement for DO students to take the USMLE to enter the ERAS system and match into allo spots. However, some particular programs may have a requirement that all applicants take the USMLE, and many others may "prefer" to see a USMLE score in addition to the COMLEX. There are also plenty that are comfortable with just the COMLEX and know how to interpret it.

And it isn't confined to any particular specialty... there are competitive peds programs that might require or prefer the USMLE, and there may be some very friendly gas or surgery programs that are perfectly fine with just the COMLEX. But I think the generalization that more competitive specialties and/or more competitive programs within those specialties will more likely require or prefer the USMLE.

Not sure exactly what this has to do with this thread though. To the OP, try to attend school in the US if at all possible. DO is a good option, and even that brings with it some additional hurdles to matching in some specialty areas, whether from limited AOA residency spots or tough competition in that area from MD students. Coming from the Caribbean is going to mean one thing: you are going to absolutely have to be at the top of your game in all areas to have a shot at matching in what you want. Remember that even though these "big 4" Caribbean schools might have a match list that looks pretty decent, their class sizes are absolutely huge, there is a large attrition rate, students are not even allowed to take the step 1 and qualify for the match until the school is satisfied with their performance, and then only the top performers get those competitive residency spots. Those are likely students that would have performed excellently at a US MD school, but weren't accepted because they slacked off in undergrad, were sick on MCAT day, hit someone during an interview, or whatever.

What about the new medical school in St. Kitts created by Dr. Ross - does it carry any weight being that it's his reputation that it rides on despite being in its first year?

yveshenri said:

What about the new medical school in St. Kitts created by Dr. Ross - does it carry any weight being that it's his reputation that it rides on despite being in its first year?

Click to expand...

God, no. I'd be uncomfortable going to a US Allopathic school in its first year, let alone a Carribean school.

A school's reputation will be based on the quality of graduates it puts out. Any new school has very little data to claim they are a "good" school. The name on the degree or whose bankrolling it will have next to zero impact.

I'm a nontrad too, and I certainly worry a lot about my chances of getting into med school. (Just applied this cycle.) But, based on some horror stories I've read on SDN, it seems way too risky to go to the Caribbean for med school. Not only do Caribbean grads have to fight it out with US allo and DO students for residencies, their educations are significantly more expensive AND they can't get financial aid or government-subsidized loans. This can really backfire on you if any of your financial arrangements fall through, because you can't finish your education, but you still have to pay back the money you've already borrowed.

Just last week, I read on SDN about a student in this very situation. Here is the thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=525293

This guy has finished 2 years at a Caribbean school and passed USMLE Step I, but his lender won't let him borrow any more money, so he can't afford to finish at that school. But because he's already borrowed a lot and the value of his house has declined in the real estate slump, he'll probably have trouble finding another lender. In other words, he's up a major creek without a paddle.

Stories like these have convinced me that the Caribbean is not a good option for most people. I know that people who go to the top Caribbean schools get a solid education, but even those relatively "elite" students have to fight for a place in the US residency system. And if you're unlucky enough to have academic or financial troubles at a Caribbean school, you're toast. No one in the US system is going to lift a finger to help you.

student1799 said:

I'm a nontrad too, and I certainly worry a lot about my chances of getting into med school. (Just applied this cycle.) But, based on some horror stories I've read on SDN, it seems way too risky to go to the Caribbean for med school. Not only do Caribbean grads have to fight it out with US allo and DO students for residencies, their educations are significantly more expensive AND they can't get financial aid or government-subsidized loans. This can really backfire on you if any of your financial arrangements fall through, because you can't finish your education, but you still have to pay back the money you've already borrowed.

Just last week, I read on SDN about a student in this very situation. Here is the thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=525293

This guy has finished 2 years at a Caribbean school and passed USMLE Step I, but his lender won't let him borrow any more money, so he can't afford to finish at that school. But because he's already borrowed a lot and the value of his house has declined in the real estate slump, he'll probably have trouble finding another lender. In other words, he's up a major creek without a paddle.

Stories like these have convinced me that the Caribbean is not a good option for most people. I know that people who go to the top Caribbean schools get a solid education, but even those relatively "elite" students have to fight for a place in the US residency system. And if you're unlucky enough to have academic or financial troubles at a Caribbean school, you're toast. No one in the US system is going to lift a finger to help you.

Click to expand...

As mentioned above 3 of the big 4 are eligible for federal loans...

I agree with everyone else, if it is the U.S. you are looking to do residency/get a job, I'd make sure you've exhausted all other options to stay in Canada/US.

That doesn't mean if you have looked at other options and there is nothing better to give up on your dream, just know it will be a tougher road.

Edit: Also I would suggest SGU as I believe they just signed a 5 year agreement with some New York Clerkship options.

MLT2MT2DO said:

Edit: Also I would suggest SGU as I believe they just signed a 5 year agreement with some New York Clerkship options.

Click to expand...

Based on articles on the other boards, this deal is being very hotly contested by the NY allo schools, and I would not expect it to hold up.

Nasem said:

I thought DO's don't have to take the USMLE for the less competitive residencies (like primary care's IM, family, pediatrics)....

Click to expand...

This can actually be true. I know several DOs who never took the USMLE, but they matched into allopathic residencies. There can be issues, though (some programs ask you for an osteo internship). Also, a large program at Johns Hopkins (you can do the search to figure out which one...but it's not primary care) accepts osteo boards as equivalent to allo boards (I know a D.O in the program).

Still, without BOTH osteo and allo boards, the osteopathic applicant is at a disadvantage, but it's not impossible to match after only taking one of them.