Couple's Match Algorithm Help for ROL

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zeems

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I only have 5 Internal Medicine programs that I will be ranking (let's say #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5) and my wife only has 5 Pediatrics programs (A, B, C, D, and E) which are arranged based on our preferences (#1>#5 and A>E).

Does this algorithm work in our scenario?

[RANK] ME ---------------- WIFE
[1] #1 ----------------- A (<-- #1 and A are in same city)
[2] #2 ----------------- B (<-- #2 and B are in same city)
[3] #3 ----------------- C (#3, 4, 5 and C, D, E are all in NYC area)

Now from our 4th rank onwards, in order to maximize our chances at matching, do I continue ranking like this??:

[4] #3 ----------------- D
[5] #3 ----------------- E
[6] #4 ----------------- C
[7] #4 ----------------- D
[8] #4 ----------------- E
[9] #5 ----------------- C
[10] #5 ----------------- D
[11] #5 ----------------- E


I tried reading as much as I could off the nrmp.org website, but we're both somewhat confused on how to make the rank algorithm work for us. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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That seems OK. My wife and I also did the scenario in which one party doesn't match, so for my 1-5 she put the multiple 9s (whatever the 'no match" code is), and I did the same for her A-D. By doing that, in case that both parties don't click with "geographically close" (or whatever your criteria were) programs, both could still match if being ranked high enough by respective programs. I hope this helps.
 
That works, but it does give you (not your wife) a slight preferential treatment on your rank list (4-11).

Are these all the combinations you are willing to consider? I think there are ~36 possible combinations if you were to consider all of them. Keep in mind, you are also allowed to make pair matched-unmatched scenarios. For example.

[1] #1 ----------------- A (<-- #1 and A are in same city)
[2] #2 ----------------- B (<-- #2 and B are in same city)
[3] #3 ----------------- C (#3, 4, 5 and C, D, E are all in NYC area)
[4] #3 ----------------- D
[5] #3 ----------------- E
[6] #4 ----------------- C
[7] #4 ----------------- D
[8] #4 ----------------- E
[9] #5 ----------------- C
[10] #5 ----------------- D
[11] #5 ----------------- E
[12] #1------------------UNMATCHED
[13] UNMATCHED--------A
[14] #2 ---------------- UNMATCHED

... and so on....
My wife and I had considered alternating matched and unmatched preferences, so we could increase the chances of at least one of us matching.
 
I only have 5 Internal Medicine programs that I will be ranking (let's say #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5) and my wife only has 5 Pediatrics programs (A, B, C, D, and E) which are arranged based on our preferences (#1>#5 and A>E).

Does this algorithm work in our scenario?

[RANK] ME ---------------- WIFE
[1] #1 ----------------- A (<-- #1 and A are in same city)
[2] #2 ----------------- B (<-- #2 and B are in same city)
[3] #3 ----------------- C (#3, 4, 5 and C, D, E are all in NYC area)

Now from our 4th rank onwards, in order to maximize our chances at matching, do I continue ranking like this??:

[4] #3 ----------------- D
[5] #3 ----------------- E
[6] #4 ----------------- C
[7] #4 ----------------- D
[8] #4 ----------------- E
[9] #5 ----------------- C
[10] #5 ----------------- D
[11] #5 ----------------- E


I tried reading as much as I could off the nrmp.org website, but we're both somewhat confused on how to make the rank algorithm work for us. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

My only question is - this looks like your top priorities all trump your wife's? (i.e. you would get your #3 choice while she gets her #5 choice rather than you get your number 5 choice and she gets her 3)
 
That works, but it does give you (not your wife) a slight preferential treatment on your rank list (4-11).

Are these all the combinations you are willing to consider? I think there are ~36 possible combinations if you were to consider all of them. Keep in mind, you are also allowed to make pair matched-unmatched scenarios. For example.

[1] #1 ----------------- A (<-- #1 and A are in same city)
[2] #2 ----------------- B (<-- #2 and B are in same city)
[3] #3 ----------------- C (#3, 4, 5 and C, D, E are all in NYC area)
[4] #3 ----------------- D
[5] #3 ----------------- E
[6] #4 ----------------- C
[7] #4 ----------------- D
[8] #4 ----------------- E
[9] #5 ----------------- C
[10] #5 ----------------- D
[11] #5 ----------------- E
[12] #1------------------UNMATCHED
[13] UNMATCHED--------A
[14] #2 ---------------- UNMATCHED

... and so on....
My wife and I had considered alternating matched and unmatched preferences, so we could increase the chances of at least one of us matching.

My post was hypothetical. And actually you brought up a good point. We put her preferences ahead of mine and it might be a good thing to revisit the list. :D
 
I only have 5 Internal Medicine programs that I will be ranking and my wife only has 5 Pediatrics programs

This is a bit off topic, but I am concerned that the OP & his wife have ranked too few programs. Independent applicants in both medicine & pediatrics are advised to rank around 8 programs (given past NRMP statistics), so couples should rank even more to improve chances of matching. My S.O. and I have around 30 different permutations of >10 programs.
 
That seems OK. My wife and I also did the scenario in which one party doesn't match, so for my 1-5 she put the multiple 9s (whatever the 'no match" code is), and I did the same for her A-D. By doing that, in case that both parties don't click with "geographically close" (or whatever your criteria were) programs, both could still match if being ranked high enough by respective programs. I hope this helps.

Yes, we still have to add those in as well. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
This list does indeed offer me preference. The information from NRMP, and other suggestions, advised us that preference should be given to the more competitive speciality, which will hopefully slightly reduce the chance of me going unmatched. If my wife goes unmatched, technically it will be easier for us to find a scramble position for her in Peds, than for me to find a position in Medicine. That's the rationale we heard, so please do tell us if we've understood incorrectly.

We'll definitely included the match-unmatched scenarios as well now.
Thanks guys.

That works, but it does give you (not your wife) a slight preferential treatment on your rank list (4-11).

Are these all the combinations you are willing to consider? I think there are ~36 possible combinations if you were to consider all of them. Keep in mind, you are also allowed to make pair matched-unmatched scenarios. For example.

[1] #1 ----------------- A (<-- #1 and A are in same city)
[2] #2 ----------------- B (<-- #2 and B are in same city)
[3] #3 ----------------- C (#3, 4, 5 and C, D, E are all in NYC area)
[4] #3 ----------------- D
[5] #3 ----------------- E
[6] #4 ----------------- C
[7] #4 ----------------- D
[8] #4 ----------------- E
[9] #5 ----------------- C
[10] #5 ----------------- D
[11] #5 ----------------- E
[12] #1------------------UNMATCHED
[13] UNMATCHED--------A
[14] #2 ---------------- UNMATCHED

... and so on....
My wife and I had considered alternating matched and unmatched preferences, so we could increase the chances of at least one of us matching.
 
Well consider yourself lucky...


This is a bit off topic, but I am concerned that the OP & his wife have ranked too few programs. Independent applicants in both medicine & pediatrics are advised to rank around 8 programs (given past NRMP statistics), so couples should rank even more to improve chances of matching. My S.O. and I have around 30 different permutations of >10 programs.
 
Well consider yourself lucky...

Ah, sorry for the presumption, as I was not sure if you both had ranked all possible programs. Good luck on the match!
 
I think there are ~36 possible combinations if you were to consider all of them.

It turns out that there are (a+1) * (b+1) - 1 maximum possible rank combinations for a couples match, where a and b are the number of programs for each couple. In this case, 35. (the reason there are not 36 is because unmatched - unmatched is a pointless "match").

Assuming that living in different cities is unacceptable, your rank list will be shorter than 35.

Couples rank lists are quite interesting. Here are two possible rank lists for you (ignoring the unmatched options, we'll get to those in a second):

List #1
1. 1 - A
2. 2 - B
3. 3 - C
4. 3 - D
5. 3 - E
6. 4 - C
7. 4 - D
8. 4 - E
9. 5 - C
10. 5 - D
11. 5 - E

List #2:
1. 1 - A
2. 2 - B
3. 3 - C
4. 4 - C
5. 5 - C
6. 3 - D
7. 4 - D
8. 5 - D
9. 3 - E
10. 4 - E
11. 5 - E

It would appear that List #1 gives you an advantage, and list #2 gives your partner an advantage. However, neither is true. Assuming that your individual interests are 1>5 and A>E independent of the other person's match, both lists always yield the exact same result!

Try it out -- assume that you are ranked high enough to match at programs 1, 4, and 5; and she is ranked high enough to match at B, C , and E. Both lists will place you at 4 - C. On one list you will get your #4 rank, on the other your #6, but it's the same match either way. You can try it with any combination, and you'll see you get the same match no matter what list you use.

It could be possible that your preferences are not independent, and then some additional ordering would be needed. For example, let's assume that hospital C = hospital 3, hospital D = hospital 4, and hospital E = hospital 5, and you'd prefer to be at the same place. Then your rank list would look like this:

1. 1 - A
2. 2 - B
3. 3 - C
4. 4 - D
5. 5 - E
6. 3 - D (or 4 - C)
7. 3 - E (or 5 - C)
8. 4 - C (or 3 - D)
9. 4 - E (or 5 - D)
10. 5 - C (or 3 - E)
11. 5 - D (or 4 - E)

Note again that ranks 6-11 can be ordered first by either couple -- it won't matter in the final match result. In the example above, this match list would yield a match of 5 - E, stressing being at the same place over individual preferences. However, if we assumed that program 5 did not rank you high enough to match, then this list would again match you at 4 - C (either at rank #8 or at #6 depending on how you rank the final 6-11, but still the same result either way)

What's strange about this is that you assume that matching higher on your rank list is better, and if you're only ranking for a single person it is, but when ranking a couple it's not always true.

I'm going to avoid all the different city matches, but you could list them if you want.

OK, let's deal with the unmatched options. I agree that it makes some sense to favor the person with the tougher match -- presumably the other person will be more successful in the scramble. However that does not always equal the person applying in the less competitive field. Still, there will probably be more spots open in IM than peds. So: (EDIT - the above is incorrect, see post #18)

12. Unmatched - A
13. Unmatched - B
14. Unmatched - C
15. Unmatched - D
16. Unmatched - E
17. 1 - Unmatched
18. 2 - Unmatched
19. 3 - Unmatched
20. 4 - Unmatched
21. 5 - Unmatched

... is probably the best way to go. It might be better to list the NYC programs first, as there are more scramble spots in NYC (in general), although that depends on what areas A / 1 and B / 2 are in.

The other option is this:

12. Unmatched - A
13. 1 - Unmatched
14. Unmatched - B
15. 2 - Unmatched
16. Unmatched - C
17. 3 - Unmatched
18. Unmatched - D
19. 4 - Unmatched
20. Unmatched - E
21. 5 - Unmatched

Note that in this option, it does not matter what order ranks 12 and 13 come in -- you could reverse 12 and 13 and will still end up with the same match (because if both 12 and 13 were possible, you would actually match into rank #1). This gives either of you the top rank possible without the other.
 
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Bumping this for some help:

I am couples matching, and although I understand the algorithm, I am wondering about hitting the unmatched part of the list. To me, it seems unreasonable to put ranks down that specifically prohibit one person from matching at all. I understand the idea of having one person unmatch and then doing their best in the scramble. But to me, it is more important that each of us matches into their specialty of choice and have to deal with the possibility of separation then to deal with having to scramble. For example, why wouldn't we have a list like this:

[1] #1 ----------------- A (<-- #1 and A are in same city)
[2] #2 ----------------- B (<-- #2 and B are in same city)
[3] #3 ----------------- C (#3, 4, 5 and C, D, E are all in NYC area)
[4] #3 ----------------- D
[5] #3 ----------------- E
[6] #4 ----------------- C
[7] #4 ----------------- D
[8] #4 ----------------- E
[9] #5 ----------------- C
[10] #5 ----------------- D
[11] #5 ----------------- E

[12] #1------------------C
[13] #1------------------D
[14] #1------------------E
[15] #2------------------C
[16] #2------------------D
[17] #2------------------E

etc...

where we are matching in different cities in ranks 12-17, but at least BOTH of us match. Although I hope not to have to go that far down on our list, I just can't bring myself to put either one of us down as to not matching AT ALL. At least there is some hope, especially if one of us matches in a large city, to transfer/swap into a spot. It seems crazy to rely on the scramble to getting close to one another...it's a long shot in getting into a scramble spot in the first place.

Thoughts?
 
Bumping this for some help:

etc...

where we are matching in different cities in ranks 12-17, but at least BOTH of us match. Although I hope not to have to go that far down on our list, I just can't bring myself to put either one of us down as to not matching AT ALL. At least there is some hope, especially if one of us matches in a large city, to transfer/swap into a spot. It seems crazy to rely on the scramble to getting close to one another...it's a long shot in getting into a scramble spot in the first place.

Thoughts?

Different strokes for different folks. I don't think that either strategy is necessarily better than the other. Some people can't imagine going unmatched, others can't imagine being separated from their spouse for 3-7 years. As the Match becomes more competitive, your idea will probably become more common though.
 
Bumping this for some help:

I am couples matching, and although I understand the algorithm, I am wondering about hitting the unmatched part of the list. To me, it seems unreasonable to put ranks down that specifically prohibit one person from matching at all. I understand the idea of having one person unmatch and then doing their best in the scramble. But to me, it is more important that each of us matches into their specialty of choice and have to deal with the possibility of separation then to deal with having to scramble. For example, why wouldn't we have a list like this:

[1] #1 ----------------- A (<-- #1 and A are in same city)
[2] #2 ----------------- B (<-- #2 and B are in same city)
[3] #3 ----------------- C (#3, 4, 5 and C, D, E are all in NYC area)
[4] #3 ----------------- D
[5] #3 ----------------- E
[6] #4 ----------------- C
[7] #4 ----------------- D
[8] #4 ----------------- E
[9] #5 ----------------- C
[10] #5 ----------------- D
[11] #5 ----------------- E

[12] #1------------------C
[13] #1------------------D
[14] #1------------------E
[15] #2------------------C
[16] #2------------------D
[17] #2------------------E

etc...

where we are matching in different cities in ranks 12-17, but at least BOTH of us match. Although I hope not to have to go that far down on our list, I just can't bring myself to put either one of us down as to not matching AT ALL. At least there is some hope, especially if one of us matches in a large city, to transfer/swap into a spot. It seems crazy to rely on the scramble to getting close to one another...it's a long shot in getting into a scramble spot in the first place.

Thoughts?

You absolutely can do exactly what you suggest. In my post above I mentioned that I was skipping the "match in different cities" options, since I assumed that matching together was critical / non negotiable. That's an individual choice.

In the example above, your list would be (5+1) * (5+1) -1 ranks long = 35 if you list all possible combinations:

1 rank in city A
1 Rank in city B
9 ranks in NYC (C,D,E)
14 ranks in combined cities
5 Ranks with one person unmatched
5 ranks with the other person unmatched

... for a total of 35 combinations. In that case, if you fall to the part of the list where someone is unmatched, that's because they failed to match anywhere (even if they submitted a non-couples linked list).
 
This list does indeed offer me preference. The information from NRMP, and other suggestions, advised us that preference should be given to the more competitive speciality, which will hopefully slightly reduce the chance of me going unmatched. If my wife goes unmatched, technically it will be easier for us to find a scramble position for her in Peds, than for me to find a position in Medicine. That's the rationale we heard, so please do tell us if we've understood incorrectly.

We'll definitely included the match-unmatched scenarios as well now.
Thanks guys.


You understood it incorrectly. The order of your list will not affect chances of going unmatched, only which program/combo you're more likely to match in.
 
You understood it incorrectly. The order of your list will not affect chances of going unmatched, only which program/combo you're more likely to match in.

Except in the case of doing a one-person-matches-and-the-other-doesn't-scenario. The order of your list can affect your chance of landing those particular combination of matches.
 
Just putting down something I wrote in another thread:

You will have a number of possible strategies. The big question is simply whether you're going to rank *all* possible combinations or if you'd prefer one of you not matching to you both matching in very different locations. If you are going to rank all possible combinations and you do so, each of you have the exact same chance matching as you would had you ranked individually. If there's any combinations that aren't ranked, your overall chance of matching may (and will likely) be at least a little decreased.

So if you each interviewed at 10 programs that you are willing to rank, you will need to rank 120 combinations to maximize both of your chances of matching.

20 of those combinations will be one of you matching and the other one not matching (program code 9999999 or something). These are combinations that you should rank regardless of your strategy, because if those aren't ranked at the bottom of your respective lists you run the real risk of both of you not matching when one of you might have. Rank *all* of those, because rank #121 (which doesn't actually exist) is both of you not matching, and all 20 of them should be preferable to that.

Of the remaining 100, the easy combinations (2 good programs in close proximity) will obviously be at the top. But a number of the 100 will have to be compromises: maybe one of the programs isn't as good. Maybe the two programs are really far apart. Or some combination of the above. You'll have to go through the list to prioritize. If there's any of those 100 combinations that is unacceptable to the point that you'd prefer one of you not match than have that be the result, then don't rank it. But those are the terms in which you have to think about it.
 
Except in the case of doing a one-person-matches-and-the-other-doesn't-scenario. The order of your list can affect your chance of landing those particular combination of matches.

It depends.

If you've ranked all possible combinations including all combos in different cities, then it doesn't matter at all. In this case, getting to the unmatched part of the list means that (at least) one person has not matched, and would not have matched had they applied individually. So, in the case above where one person is applying to programs 1-5 and the other to A-E, there would be 25 combinations of double matches. After that, you'd list the single matches in positions 26 - 35. You could list:

26. 1 - unmatched
27. 2 - unmatched
28. 3 - unmatched
29. 4 - unmatched
30. 5 - unmatched
31. unmatched - A
32. unmatched - B
33. unmatched - C
34. unmatched - D
35. unmatched - E

Or:

26. unmatched - A
27. unmatched - B
28. unmatched - C
29. unmatched - D
30. unmatched - E
31. 1 - unmatched
32. 2 - unmatched
33. 3 - unmatched
34. 4 - unmatched
35. 5 - unmatched

Or:

26. unmatched - A
27. 1 - unmatched
28. unmatched - B
29. 2 - unmatched
30. unmatched - C
31. 3 - unmatched
32. unmatched - D
33. 4 - unmatched
34. unmatched - E
35. 5 - unmatched

In all three cases, you will end up with the exact same result.

If you haven't ranked all possible combinations, and have decided that staying together is more important than matching, then it absolutely matters what order the end of the list comes in. In that case, it's quite possible that both people could match to programs, but you've decided that you would rather go unmatched than match in different cities. In that case, you need to make strategic decisions about how to organize the end of the list, and listing the more competitive field first (figuring that it will be easier for the person in the less competitive field to get a spot in SOAP or next year) or listing the least competitive of the couple first (figuring that the more competitive partner would be better able to compete for spots in SOAP / the next year) is completely reasonable.
 
Bumping this for some help:

I am couples matching, and although I understand the algorithm, I am wondering about hitting the unmatched part of the list. To me, it seems unreasonable to put ranks down that specifically prohibit one person from matching at all. I understand the idea of having one person unmatch and then doing their best in the scramble. But to me, it is more important that each of us matches into their specialty of choice and have to deal with the possibility of separation then to deal with having to scramble. For example, why wouldn't we have a list like this:

[1] #1 ----------------- A (<-- #1 and A are in same city)
[2] #2 ----------------- B (<-- #2 and B are in same city)
[3] #3 ----------------- C (#3, 4, 5 and C, D, E are all in NYC area)
[4] #3 ----------------- D
[5] #3 ----------------- E
[6] #4 ----------------- C
[7] #4 ----------------- D
[8] #4 ----------------- E
[9] #5 ----------------- C
[10] #5 ----------------- D
[11] #5 ----------------- E

[12] #1------------------C
[13] #1------------------D
[14] #1------------------E
[15] #2------------------C
[16] #2------------------D
[17] #2------------------E

etc...

where we are matching in different cities in ranks 12-17, but at least BOTH of us match. Although I hope not to have to go that far down on our list, I just can't bring myself to put either one of us down as to not matching AT ALL. At least there is some hope, especially if one of us matches in a large city, to transfer/swap into a spot. It seems crazy to rely on the scramble to getting close to one another...it's a long shot in getting into a scramble spot in the first place.

Thoughts?

My wife and I were doing a similar strategy but rooting for Boston followed by Philly, Texas, New York, DC in that order.
 
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