International Students applying MD/PhD

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Nuel

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Hello folks,
I am an international student (Bio maj) here in the US. What are the chances of internationals in MD/PhD admissions process. I know certain schools don't regard status, but want to hear what y'all think.
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Well, hello my fellow foreigner :D


Seriously, though, I haven't met many other int'l students applying to MD/PhD, so I'm kind of excited.

I'll be honest with you: being an international student you will have certain things going against you in the start, you'll be a bit limited as to where you can apply and you will have to answer some questions, but it's far from impossible.

I'm an international student as I said (but here in college, as well) and I have beed doing very well in the admissions game. I also came accross at least one other very sucessful international applicant this year, and I know that there are several int'ls at some of the schools I've been to.

If you have any specific questions, I'd be more than willing to help you. Good luck.
 
Hey Nuel,

I am glad you asked!! I am an F1, and this year I applied to about 16 programs. I had to carefully pick and choose ones that did accept and did fund F1 students. Some programs will encourage you to apply, but may say something like 'funding is tough for foreign students, but please go ahead and apply.' Try and be cautious of those schools.

Schools like Wash U absolutely do not make any distinction, whereas some other IVY schools may accept you with some amount of reluctance. This is basically because, to fund you, they need to hack in to their private sources of funding.

What schools were you planning on applying to ?
 
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Originally posted by bahraini
Hey Nuel,

I am glad you asked!! I am an F1, and this year I applied to about 16 programs. I had to carefully pick and choose ones that did accept and did fund F1 students. Some programs will encourage you to apply, but may say something like 'funding is tough for foreign students, but please go ahead and apply.' Try and be cautious of those schools.

Schools like Wash U absolutely do not make any distinction, whereas some other IVY schools may accept you with some amount of reluctance. This is basically because, to fund you, they need to hack in to their private sources of funding.

What schools were you planning on applying to ?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. Well, they say "early to bed early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise." I am applying in the late spring or early summer of next year, I am just trying to get things on the ground now. I am compiling my lists . . . MD/PhD applications to 15 schools should do, I think.
 
I guess it is about time for us to compile a list of the combined programs that accept international (F-1) students for the benefit of this year's applicants.

MD/PhD programs that accept intl students:
1. Hopkins (with Merck scholarship)
2. Wash U (full funding)
3. Cornell (full funding)
4. Duke (full funding)
5. UT Southwestern (full funding)
6. Vanderbilt (full funding)
7. Dartmouth (full funding)
8. Baylor (full funding)
9. USC (partial funding)
10. Stanford (no funding)
11. Harvard (no funding)
12. UPenn (full funding)
13. Mount Sinai (full funding)
14. Yale (full funding)
15. Penn State (?)
16. BU (?)

Programs to avoid:
1. UCSF
2. Mayo
3. UPitt
4. NYU
 
I am going to very blunt.
You SHOULD first consider getting to MD program. If you do, you are very lucky considering your F1 status. Then, apply for the phd program and that is what most students do.
My friend with good gpa/mcat got rejected for the simply fact that many americans can't get into. That doesn't mean you can't get in.

Positive Note.
Some Medical schools(like the ones above) prefer international students because you have the green(cash). As you are not eligible to apply for stanford loans, you tuition fee is one 100% profit for the school.

good luck
 
While phar has some valid points, I must say that international students do get into competitive md/phd programs with full funding. As far as I know, three international SDNers got into hopkins, duke and BU last year. This year's international SDNers are doing very well too. Both Surge and I got into several top MD/PhD programs with full funding. Since not all international students spend their time on SDN, I am sure there are more successful international students. So, don't get discouraged just because you have an F-1 visa. If you are competitive, you'll get in somewhere regardless of your citizenship (with full funding of course).
 
Originally posted by phar
I am going to very blunt.
You SHOULD first consider getting to MD program. If you do, you are very lucky considering your F1 status. Then, apply for the phd program and that is what most students do.
My friend with good gpa/mcat got rejected for the simply fact that many americans can't get into. That doesn't mean you can't get in.

Positive Note.
Some Medical schools(like the ones above) prefer international students because you have the green(cash). As you are not eligible to apply for stanford loans, you tuition fee is one 100% profit for the school.

good luck
Click to expand...


An MD and an MD/PhD program are two quite different pursuits, and this applies to admission dynamics as well. What phar is saying is not necessarily true, although being an international student makes things more difficult whichever route you choose.
If you are a truly highly qualified applicant (and this does not just mean high GPA/MCAT) you stand a fair chance with both an MD and - as you can see on this board - an MD/PhD program, even at the most competitive schools.
Merely being an international student is not a valid reason to apply to MD only in hopes of doing a PhD later.
 
KBK:

Add SUNY Upstate to your list. I know they consider international students (equally with Americans). When I was there for an interview, there were 2 international students (out of 10). I'm also under the impression that they get full funding. (I'm not totally sure about this. I didn't really pay attention since it didn't apply to me.) :cool:

-Naphtali
 
Some time ago, KBK wrote this as regards MD/PhD spots for foreign applicants.

Programs to avoid:
1. UCSF
2. Mayo
3. UPitt
4. NYU

My question is how bad is UCSF with regard to international student acceptance. Do they have a hard and fast policy against international students or is it that all spots are MSTP or that they could offer you a place but without funding.

Thanks
 
Was F-1 when I applied--now perm res.

In my opinion, definitely more difficult to secure funding but overall not all that much more difficult getting in as a F-1.

Also add Albert Einsten COM to YES list with full-funding.

At Harvard, I personally was not offered full funding but was told that it was possible if I ended up ranking 1 or 2 on their final list regardless of visa status (this was 9 years ago).

The only UC school that even looked at my application was UCSF and they told me my chances were not good. UCSD even took my secondary fee and then refused to consider my application further without proof of Perm Res.

I felt that esp Penn, WashU, Columbia did not treat me any differently (outwardly anyway).

Good luck.
 
Hello folks,
I am an International student and want to get into MD/PhD program.I have a couple of questions,first being international student we are not been able to apply to most of the U.S med-schools.So i want to know that is there any med-school that give us admission and funds us as well.Secondly,How much does a school from where u have graduated matters when u apply to a Med-School.For example, If a Student applies from a four-tier school and another student applys from first-tier school,would both be treated differently?Please,please folks reply to me
 
faizan said:
Hello folks,
I am an International student and want to get into MD/PhD program.I have a couple of questions,first being international student we are not been able to apply to most of the U.S med-schools.So i want to know that is there any med-school that give us admission and funds us as well.Secondly,How much does a school from where u have graduated matters when u apply to a Med-School.For example, If a Student applies from a four-tier school and another student applys from first-tier school,would both be treated differently?Please,please folks reply to me.I would be really thankful to whoever replies me.
Click to expand...
 
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So you want to go to an MD/PhD program with full funding? It appears that the list from 3 years ago may still be the best source.

As far as undergrad mattering - yes and no. It may or may not hold sway over and admissions committee - basically do your best and go from there.
 
So you are saying my undergraduate does not matter but my undergraduate grades.Am i rite?
 
Hi !!
Can anybody tell me the chances I stand for getting into md/phd?? I am a graduate student in India with all of my education (bachelors and masters) earned from an indian university. I have a valid H4 at the moment. My husband and I plan to apply for green card but that is definitely not sure. I have three years of research experience and a lot of distinctions under my belt.
 
The University of Virginia also accepts foreign applicants with full funding.
 
rabbit_pancake.gif


I posted a funny picture because I'm generally at a loss for words.

Nuel: There are no international students in my MSTP class, and I have no idea why.

The only comment I can make about this thread is, to submit a favorable NIH proposal you have to be able to write English well.

Other than that, I'm clueless.
 
Last edited:
GWD, the thread is from 2003. I bumped it simply to add information for any current Canadian applicants, because I found a lot of worthwhile info there. :p
 
This thread needs more action, US international students need some love too. I am looking for a set of schools to apply to next cycle. No one seems to be answering my question about my situation as an int student, so I thought maybe the revival of this thread will lead to something.
 
Emory's MD PhD program also funds international students :)

Aside: Joker was really crippy by the way...... very good acting, but crippy nevertheless...

mrmilad said:
This thread needs more action, US international students need some love too. I am looking for a set of schools to apply to next cycle. No one seems to be answering my question about my situation as an int student, so I thought maybe the revival of this thread will lead to something.
Click to expand...
 
hey...first i want to thank SDN and all contributors for their wonderful words of advice.
im yet another md/phd aspirant with an international status. i did my undergrad in Univ. of Mass, Amherst however.
anyways...
the list of schools which fund intl students is longer than what was posted way back in 2003 ( thanks again).
Several schools in New york state fund intl students for md/phd.

schools in Alabama and Florida also fund intl students.

To sytematically identify which schools offer and which dont, I use the md/phd website of the AAMC.org ( http://www.aamc.org/research/dbr/mdphd/programs.htm )

i plan to verify each school either by info on website or by email or phone call and develop a database of schools that fund intl students.

i wud appreciate if others join hands in splitting the workload.

some info i already know from the list on the AAMC site

All University of Californias DO NOT fund intl students. so forget calif.

Oregon health science univ DOES NOT

Arizona DOES NOT

Arakansas DOES NOT

Univ. of Chicago Pitzer school, Univ of Illinois, Chicago and Univ of Illinois Urbana Champain--- DOES NOT

Loyola University of Chicago DOES NOT

NORTHWESTERN MEDICAL UNIVERSITY DOESSS FUND..WOOHOO

okk....so this is all i know off hand.
i wud like to present a more thorough database in a few months.

any volunteers??

thanks a lot and good luck to all fellow aspirants
 
I am now applying. I am an international, no US degree, currently a graduate student in the US. I am also looking for schools that can fund international students.
 
Here's the cracker, I have lived in the US for 12 years now, starting when I was 10. I went to highschool here in CA and I am given permission by US immigration to stay in the US indefinitely. My greencard is in the works after some major screw ups by our lawyer years ago, but probably wont be set by the time I am applying. At UCLA I get resident status due to my stay in California and my employment status, now my question is would I get the same status with medschools in CA? Yea, probably should be asking a lawyer.
 
yeah I had to hunt around before finding schools that would accept international MD/PhD applicants...it's a little daunting to look at the number of accepted students in the MSAR though -- too often the international column is empty =(
 
It looks like international students would be evaluated by higher standards than all other students. So if a school recommends at least a 3.6 GPA, would I have a chance with a 3.6 GPA if I have almost perfect MCAT scores? I had a rough time during the first 1.5 years after coming to the US, but then my grades drastically improved. Is there anything I could do to add a big plus to my credentials? I have extra-curricular activities that show leadership, commitment, accomplishments (as universities sometimes mention on their websites), but none of them is medical-related. Should I try to work in a hospital for a little while or do something similar?

Of course I cannot afford to pay for medical school, so I would rather go for MD/PhD where there is chance I will get funding. MD/PhD actually sounds better since it looks like I would get a more thorough scientific background.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated. :)
 
hi!

this is a really great thread! thanks so putting this back up. could some of the current international md/phds post their stats and share their application experiences?

Thanks!
 
If you cannot get financial aid, why don't you do MD & PhD separately? You can pay the PhD part by working as TA, getting scholarship from research sponsors, etc. I dont know about the MD part though. And, if you can do your research as an employee for some company (e.g. the sponsor or your prof's company), maybe you can get residency & get more financial aid afterward for MD.

At worst, I think you can get a loan...
 
I'm an international student from the UK that looking to get in to MD/PhD program.
From what I've seen, some universities (Harvard, Princeton and the Tri-institutional) will require at least one year of studies in the US before applying to the program...
 
KU1986 said:
...will require at least one year of studies in the US before applying to the program...
Click to expand...

I think majority of the schools count 1 yr in canada as part of that "one year in US"
 
Just wanted to touch base with all the international folks applying this year. I'm an international student from Ghana currently doing undergrad in the US and hoping for the best this cycle. Good luck to all!

(I'm welcoming comments on my mdapps profile to get feedback and opinions of what my chances are)
 
Hello,

I'm a Graduate/Masters student of Materials science & Engineering (F1 status) at the University of Florida.

I did my Undergraduate study in Metallurgical & Materials Engg - India.
I'm interested in M.D or M.D-PHD programs.

I wanted to know if I'm eligible to apply to M.D programs?

Thanks :D .

----
I know I'm as strange as they come!
 
I thought the issue was more of one where you could not get some federal grants (ie. NIH, etc) if you were not a citizen/permanent resident. I did not think there was a restriction on MD (where you pay).

On the MD side, I think there may be some sort of rule that you have to pay all up front or something (but that may be school dependent).

On the MD/PhD side, I think you may be restricted to private schools or schools with large endowments (for the similar grant/funding reasons as in the first paragraph). As for that, you might get some questions as to why Mat. Sci and MD/PhD.
 
Lets say I can answer that part - why materials science & later M.d-PHD.

There is a requirement of 1 yr of chemistry, physics, biology & organic chemistry etc right? Although I have done Physics, in-organic chemistry and I guess 2 semesters of organic chemistry (one in my undergraduate and other in my grad school in the form of polymers), I've not taken these in the form of the usual form as that of PRE-MEDs here in U.S. Which was y I had this question in my mind: Am I still eligible?

I'm interested in Tissue Engineering/Regeneration research and I feel that the best research (currently) is being conducted by the M.D-PHDs.
 
In terms of the pre-req stuff, I would think that if you took an upper level course that superceded the knowledge required for the "Gen-Ed" courses, then med schools should be fine (but this probably varies wildly from school to school).

A quick google search found a 1yr requirement for each:

  • General biology
  • Physics with lab
  • General chemistry (inorganic chemistry) with lab
  • Organic chemistry with lab
  • Calculus
  • English
But the same search popped up Harvard's requirements which seemed to be a bit more flexible (ie. Orgo could have a partial biochem sub).

The polymers (orgo sub) would give me pause ... did you take Orgo lab?

Also, if you do well on the MCAT, that shows the mastery of the content of the courses (or so one would hope).

If all else fails, you could take some post-bacc classes that will fulfill the admissions requirements.
 
I took polymers (lab). I never had a seperate course as "Org chemistry".
I will find out more about the post baccalaureate courses too.
Thanks!

Link - "http://www.naahp.org/resources_InternatMed_Article_June09.htm" helps a lot! Thanks!

I would still like to know someone with personal experience similar to my case - who did Engineering bachelors & masters (international F-1 student) and then later got into M.D-PHD program cuz they might have a new perspective which could help me prepare better!

Thanks every1.
 
while most schools r pretty flexible in terms of prereqs, some are quite strict i.e. may or may not count upper-level courses as replacement. just email schools individually once you come up with a rough list of where you want to apply. ive posted a thread - it was originally a long post, but ive now edited it to include just the schools that take int'l students with funding for mstp. hope it helps. gluck!
 
First of, I would like to thank BasilFawlty for putting up a wonderful post earlier:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=710558

this is a must read for all International applicants, i suppose. I like the way you describe yourself as coming out of the lurk. Thats what I hope to do next year, after I hopefully get my admn.

I made a post 2 years back on this forum but my apps got delayed for family reasons.

I would like to form an organized team of Intl applicants with the support of you all. as we all know, we are an extreme minority and among all applicants, we face the toughest situation. But there is hope, as shown by Basilfawlty and a few others.

Please chip in any information/strategy you guys may have to make it into the MD/PhD.
I have made a list of all MD/Phd Institutions ( about 126) and have gathered information from about 89 of them. In 62 of the schools, they do not either Admit or do not fund Intl students. 27 institutes do not have a policy against Funding intl students. for the remaining 29 something, i have not been able to get info and i am in the lookout. i have emailed most of them and they have not replied. i will start calling them one-by-one shortly.

I shall make another post shortly, with the excel sheet and how i gathered the info. It would be great if u guys join in to fill-up the blanks and add information.

as of now, I wish you all, good luck. wish me good luck too!! :))

(sorry for the long post)
 
yetanother said:
First of, I would like to thank BasilFawlty for putting up a wonderful post earlier:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=710558

this is a must read for all International applicants, i suppose. I like the way you describe yourself as coming out of the lurk. Thats what I hope to do next year, after I hopefully get my admn.

I made a post 2 years back on this forum but my apps got delayed for family reasons.

I would like to form an organized team of Intl applicants with the support of you all. as we all know, we are an extreme minority and among all applicants, we face the toughest situation. But there is hope, as shown by Basilfawlty and a few others.

Please chip in any information/strategy you guys may have to make it into the MD/PhD.
I have made a list of all MD/Phd Institutions ( about 126) and have gathered information from about 89 of them. In 62 of the schools, they do not either Admit or do not fund Intl students. 27 institutes do not have a policy against Funding intl students. for the remaining 29 something, i have not been able to get info and i am in the lookout. i have emailed most of them and they have not replied. i will start calling them one-by-one shortly.

I shall make another post shortly, with the excel sheet and how i gathered the info. It would be great if u guys join in to fill-up the blanks and add information.

as of now, I wish you all, good luck. wish me good luck too!! :))

(sorry for the long post)
Click to expand...

yetanother and other int'l applicants out there, I just put up a fairly long post on the other thread (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=710558) with my stats and some of my thoughts on the process. Hope it helps, and good luck to all!
 
Hey,
I am currently a medical student at a school outside the U.S (class of 2015) and want to apply for an MD/PhD program. However, my university will not give me the transcripts until the year 2017, so I could not apply as a transfer student.
I have got an admission from GM College for fall 2010 with full tuition and fee scholarship along with a guaranteed summer research position.
Is it advisable to enroll in the undergraduate program and apply for MD/PhD after my graduation?
 
Hi! What about intl students who haven't attended a US/Canadian college? I know that restricts the potential school pool to very tiny (for an MD/PHD I mean)! Any ideas on how great the MCAT and GPA need to be??
 
What does the admissions committee expect from an international student to accept them into an MD/PhD Program
 
myuroger said:
What does the admissions committee expect from an international student to accept them into an MD/PhD Program
Click to expand...

They don't expect anything different, there is just a much smaller number of positions available. Unless something has changed, MSTP funding (from NIH, remember) cannot be used to train non-U.S. nationals. Thus the only programs that will look seriously at your application are those that have a non-MSTP component to their funding. Which is going to be either the very large or very small programs.
 
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