am I a URM?

turkish?! Where'd you get the idea that you'd be a URM? URMs are hispanics and african americans.

I'm pretty sure you're lumped into the "white" category.

good luck anyway


Also... I think you're in the wrong forum. This is for MEDICAL SCHOOL applicants.... not just any doctoral degree students. i know, the "doctor" in "Student Doctor Forum" is not very clear on that.

Even then, "Hispanic" is misleading because I am Hispanic (Costa Rican) and I sure as hell am not considered a URM. Mexican-Americans and mainland Puerto Ricans are the only Hispanics considered URM.

Originally posted by aydinhatemi
Am I considered a URM or what kind of advantage will it give me in the admission process.

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Originally posted by drkingdingaling
women and indians as well

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Not women.

And only Indians in the sense of Native Americans, not those from India.

why arn't asians considered URM?

Unless the AAMC website is outdated, I'm pretty sure that not all Hispanics are lumped into the URM category.

AAMC

I'm glad that you brought the MMEP up, Sharky. I noticed that the MMEP is for "Hispanics," which then made me wonder why not all Hispanis are considered URM. Consequently, I've always been confused by how this all works. Why bother running a program for minority students if those students don't all qualify as URM's?

I have to agree with your logic and its what I always thought that the point of URM doctors were - to better serve the needs of the changing population. Surely a spanish-speaking Colombian doctor can treat a spanish-speaking Mexican patient as well as any other spanish-speaking doctor. So although I do believe that you are correct in theory, I'm not sure that "officially" all Hispanics are considered URM. So far, I have not come upon anything or anyone that says otherwise.

you know- i'm kind of worried about the whole URM thing. i was born in egypt, and spent some time in algeria before moving to the states. my parents were both born in egypt as well... i had citizenship there until i entered the 3rd grade here in cali. now, here's my dilemma. if you're from the continent 'asia' (whether you're korean, indian, chinese, etc...) - you mark 'asian'

likewise, i assimilate with practices native to where i was born on the continent of africa. i, in a technically correct form, AM african-american. i am not dark-skinned, and not black. i applied to med-school as 'white/caucasian' - but, i am aware of individuals i attend church with who are also egyptian who applied as african-american. they're also from alexandria, egypt. i guess my problem is that if med shcools are going to pull this affirmative action stuff and are trying to recruit 'black' people, then that's what they should have as an option on the application. i think the whole attempt at being PC gets lost in the application cycle. just wanted to throw this out there....

p

Originally posted by Quagmire, M.D.
I have to agree with your logic and its what I always thought that the point of URM doctors were - to better serve the needs of the changing population. Surely a spanish-speaking Colombian doctor can treat a spanish-speaking Mexican patient as well as any other spanish-speaking doctor. So although I do believe that you are correct in theory, I'm not sure that "officially" all Hispanics are considered URM. So far, I have not come upon anything or anyone that says otherwise.

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All Hispanics are not considered URM, only Mexican-Americans and mainland Purerto Ricans. Last summer I was thinking about applying in the 2003 cycle and I discovered that South Americans weren't considered URM in the process. I actually called someone at AAMC in D.C. who was in charge of the minority outreach and applicant database and asked her about the policy. She told me that it is one of the things they are considering in their reform of the URM definition and that it stems from the past when the majority of Hispanics in America were of Mexican and Puerto Rican background, and few were from Central and South America. Now, with changing immmigration patterns, and more immigrants from other parts of Latin America they are thinking of changing it. But for the 2004 cycle it looks like it will remain as it is now.

I was told this at my interviews since I'm not Mexican or Puerto Rican...most schools follow AAMC advice, but on their own expand to Hispanic, since as you guys said, the LANGUAGE is what is important to treat other Spanish-speaking patients (puerto Rican or Mexican does not matter.)

Also, schools look if you applied as DISADVANTAGED, usually financially disadvantaged students are given a chance too. Think about it: these doctors are more likely to if not serve in urban low income areas to at least volunteer at a free clinic more than others...I think it is important to consider the financially disadvantaged, no matter what the racial/ethnic background is.

BTW, no Turkish is not a URM, but you may apply as disadvantaged if financially struggling while you grew up. Good luck to all my URM and disadvantaged folks out there...your rise is slow, but steady, and it's coming

FYI aydinhatemi


INTERNATIONAL M.D. PROGRAM
International applicants who wish to apply to the GW School of Medicine must apply to the International M.D. Program. The School of Medicine Office of Admissions accepts applications from U.S. and Canadian citizens and U.S. permanent residents. The School of Medicine does not accept applications from international students to the regular four year M.D. program. The International M.D. Program is a five-year course of study designed to prepare students for medical practice and leadership positions in their home countries. Applicants to this program must be sponsored by their government and/or a medical institution within their home country. Applicants to the program must complete the same prerequisites as the regular M.D. program including matriculation at an U.S. or Canadian undergraduate school. International applicants who wish to learn about this program should contact the Office of International Medicine Programs at (202) 994-2796.

Good luck!

As a URM I must say to other URMs, DO NOT FORGET WHERE YOU CAME FROM. As much of a success as you will become, think of others who are where you were...learn to see your younger self in the youth where you come from. I experienced this same thing not too long ago during college mentoring a student...he was the younger version of me. It was awesome!

Much love to all URMs out there and it's not over until it's over.

Originally posted by Sharky
Perhaps it depends on the medical school whether they would view other hispanics at URMs. Even though the official definition is the way it is, depending on how they sort the apps, some schools may consider them URMs especially if they went to MMEP. According to the AAMC website, "...MMEP is primarily intended for students from minority groups that continue to be underrepresented in U.S. medicine, including Blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans (American Indians, Alaskan Natives, and Native Hawaiians)..." It doesn't state only Mexicans and Puerto Ricans even though in the definition it does, which is an old definition. It wouldn't make sense to allow other hispanics in the program if they weren't considered URMs since this would in a way defeat the whole purpose of the program.

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It may not make any sense but it is true that for now at least URM = Mexicans and Puerto Ricans for AAMCAS purposes on your application. As for MMEP the main goal of the program is to bring minorities into medicine and I think they include all Hispanics for that reason. But the AAMC criteria for med school admissions are different. Plus, it is up to the school sponsoring MMEP to decide the criteria for who they take and I can tell you at U of Arizona there are MANY non-URM Arizona residents who do the program each year. I too have heard that some medical schools will extend the Hispanic definition to include you since they recognize the definition of URM right now is lacking. I spoke to a woman at OHSU last summer and she told me they think the definition is nad but they still have to judge your application as a non-URM. In this case out of state "non-URM" Hispanics do not qualify for consideration by Oregon resident standards as URMs do. So it probably all depends on the school. My advisor told me that if it came down to you, as a non-URM Hispanic, and a non-URM applicant with similar stats you might have a leg up. Who knows. Hopefully, they will change the URM definition to eliminate some of the problems with it.

Originally posted by azpremed
All Hispanics are not considered URM, only Mexican-Americans and mainland Purerto Ricans. Last summer I was thinking about applying in the 2003 cycle and I discovered that South Americans weren't considered URM in the process. I actually called someone at AAMC in D.C. who was in charge of the minority outreach and applicant database and asked her about the policy. She told me that it is one of the things they are considering in their reform of the URM definition and that it stems from the past when the majority of Hispanics in America were of Mexican and Puerto Rican background, and few were from Central and South America. Now, with changing immmigration patterns, and more immigrants from other parts of Latin America they are thinking of changing it. But for the 2004 cycle it looks like it will remain as it is now.

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That's not entirely accurate info.

The AAMC has been using the term "URM" since the 70s. The URM classification describes AfAm, MexAm, mainlaind PR, and Native american. In JAMA (3/5/03), Dr. Cohen the president of the AAMC says that "the term recognized that these 4 minority groups had been barred HISTORICALLY from entering the medical profession by flagrant discriminatory practices." He then goes on to mention that there are other minority groups underrepresented in medicine. The term has never been used to describe "immigration patterns", or the demographics of "hispanics" Don't get me wrong -- there is a need in general for doctors of Latino descent given the changing demographics of the States, but we also have to understand the blatant racism that entire populations faced, that lead to this term even being created. native americans had a country pulled from under their feet. Half the US used to be Mexico! Puerto Rico is a US territory (translation: it's a PART of the US! And of course, Blacks and the years of oppression...

Ultimately, schools determine their own admissions policies in regards to URM, but for the sake of the AAMC and federal programs, and monies, they use the STRICT AAMC definition - i.e. Juanita from Colombia is not counted as a URM, but yes, she is a minority in her US medical school.

My friend went to a recent AAMC meeting on this topic....it's still up in the air.

Hmm, I have a question in regards to the post by pathdr2b about the international MD application at GW.
If you are an international student, and can fully pay for your undergraduate education in the US, then colleges and universities are more than happy to take you; they calim that it increases the diversity of the school.
Now, IF an international student (non-US citizen or permanent resident) receive an undergraduate education in the US, IF this same student has great MCAT score and GPA, LORs and all that stuff, and IF they can afford their medical education, then why do medical schools put this sort of "barrier"? I am not taking any sides here, I am just trying to understand the rationale behind it (since it's different from undergrad). Any thoughts?

My dad is Asian and my mom is Spanish (from Spain)... Am I considered as Asian-Caucasian or as Asian-Hispanic? Not sure if people from Spain are under the definition of Hispanic...

Mr.turk,
Right down what "race" pleases you.....nobody can say you are white or black...if you don't understand my point....take a history class of eastern africa who look like arabs but are 100% black i.e minority.....

All that matters is the first step in med school

My friend looks like a light-skinned arab(which are considered "white" by the way). He is from ethopia and wrote black on his application and no body questioned it...he is now in second year. Is it shocking? Nooo Again, take a history class of eastern africa...
Here is my point.....you could be a minority but you have to research your background info....some arabs have black lineages(meaning mixed with black) especially those in africa...maybe turks too but you do your research. By the way, turks are arabs too just like kurds...
Back to my friend, this guy is a light skinned arab...and you see him..you would never imagine even a trace of black heritage but yet he is 100% black.

Human beings....no defined color but same being.

Good luck....

Hey NYGirl, for many years I thought the spanish (Spain) were considered hispanic or latino. Recently it was brought to my attention that the spanish are actually considered white/caucasian. I guess because they spoke spanish that I went along with the notion that spaniards are hispanic/latino.

And well just think about it; Spain is in Europe, why wouldn't they be considered white? Take all of North and South America away and just focus on Europe. You have a myraid of nations who speak their own language and when considering them; there all white. I too accepted the notion for some reason that the Spanish are Latino/hispanic.

Well anyway hispanic/latino isn't technically considered a race. Right?

Jeez, I really should think I about this. I might be wrong. It's late anyway and really tired. Forgive me if I made a mistake.

Originally posted by edfig99
That's not entirely accurate info.

The AAMC has been using the term "URM" since the 70s. The URM classification describes AfAm, MexAm, mainlaind PR, and Native american. In JAMA (3/5/03), Dr. Cohen the president of the AAMC says that "the term recognized that these 4 minority groups had been barred HISTORICALLY from entering the medical profession by flagrant discriminatory practices." He then goes on to mention that there are other minority groups underrepresented in medicine. The term has never been used to describe "immigration patterns", or the demographics of "hispanics" Don't get me wrong -- there is a need in general for doctors of Latino descent given the changing demographics of the States, but we also have to understand the blatant racism that entire populations faced, that lead to this term even being created. native americans had a country pulled from under their feet. Half the US used to be Mexico! Puerto Rico is a US territory (translation: it's a PART of the US! And of course, Blacks and the years of oppression...

Ultimately, schools determine their own admissions policies in regards to URM, but for the sake of the AAMC and federal programs, and monies, they use the STRICT AAMC definition - i.e. Juanita from Colombia is not counted as a URM, but yes, she is a minority in her US medical school.

My friend went to a recent AAMC meeting on this topic....it's still up in the air.

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That's interesting information. And it is definitely not what the lady at the AAMC minority office told me on the phone. Maybe she was adding her own opinions on the matter. I can totally see the historical argument behind the definition for these 4 groups. I do think that now that many other Hispanics have been here for many decades in some cases it does fall short. My dad grew up in NYC and they were the only Colombian-American family in the neighborhood, and had been in the country about the same amount of time as most of the Puerto Rican families in the neighborhood. And they all went through the same discrimination due to language, culture, ethnicity, etc. And I have met Central Americans here in the Southwest whose families have been here longer than some of the Mexican families in their communities and who have also gone through the same types of discrimination. I must say I was surprised when I started the med school application process and read the URM definition since most other graduate/professional schools don't make distinctions about where your family came from if you check Hispanic/Latino. It will be interesting to see what they come up with if they decide to change the definition.

Originally posted by aydinhatemi
I am a turkish student currently studying electrical engineering at USA. I am holding a green card. Am I considered a URM or what kind of advantage will it give me in the admission process.

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hahahaha

...you're kidding right?

Originally posted by relatively prime
turkish?! Where'd you get the idea that you'd be a URM? URMs are hispanics and african americans.

I'm pretty sure you're lumped into the "white" category.

good luck anyway


Also... I think you're in the wrong forum. This is for MEDICAL SCHOOL applicants.... not just any doctoral degree students. i know, the "doctor" in "Student Doctor Forum" is not very clear on that.

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I am URM(at least at some schools). I am Pilipino.

Hey NYGirl, for many years I thought the spanish (Spain) were considered hispanic or latino. Recently it was brought to my attention that the spanish are actually considered white/caucasian. I guess because they spoke spanish that I went along with the notion that spaniards are hispanic/latino.

And well just think about it; Spain is in Europe, why wouldn't they be considered white? Take all of North and South America away and just focus on Europe. You have a myraid of nations who speak their own language and when considering them; there all white. I too accepted the notion for some reason that the Spanish are Latino/hispanic.

Well anyway hispanic/latino isn't technically considered a race. Right?

.. Latino is anyone who is from latin america
..Im not to sure about hispanic, I thought it included latinos and cubans and PR ect.
..chicano/chicana..anyone with mexican decent,
hope that helps

Very broadly speaking, "Hispanic" refers to people in the U.S. who came originally from Spanish-speaking countries (including Spain); "Latino" refers to people originally from Latin America (so it would not include Spain).

From some McGraw-Hill online textbook...
"Hispanic versus Latino
Terms debated among the descendants of Spanish-speaking Americans because each of these identity names has its own history and political significance and because different Americans identify more with one of those political histories than with the other; similarly, some Americans of Mexican descent prefer the designation Chicano to either Hispanic or Latino."

Most people tend to use the terms interchangeably.

Neither is a race at least by any definition in use today, though if you ask someone from a spanish speaking country, most will say "Latino" or "Hispano" unless you limit their choices....then it will be "other".

Originally posted by pathdr2b
FYI aydinhatemi


INTERNATIONAL M.D. PROGRAM
International applicants who wish to apply to the GW School of Medicine must apply to the International M.D. Program. The School of Medicine Office of Admissions accepts applications from U.S. and Canadian citizens and U.S. permanent residents. The School of Medicine does not accept applications from international students to the regular four year M.D. program. The International M.D. Program is a five-year course of study designed to prepare students for medical practice and leadership positions in their home countries. Applicants to this program must be sponsored by their government and/or a medical institution within their home country. Applicants to the program must complete the same prerequisites as the regular M.D. program including matriculation at an U.S. or Canadian undergraduate school. International applicants who wish to learn about this program should contact the Office of International Medicine Programs at (202) 994-2796.

Good luck!

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Well he has a green card, and is thus a permanent residence, so teh International MD program doesnt apply to him, he'll have to apply through the regular program.
Green card holders aka permanent residents arent considered as intl students.

Originally posted by Lab-Rat21
As a URM I must say to other URMs, DO NOT FORGET WHERE YOU CAME FROM. As much of a success as you will become, think of others who are where you were...learn to see your younger self in the youth where you come from. I experienced this same thing not too long ago during college mentoring a student...he was the younger version of me. It was awesome!

Much love to all URMs out there and it's not over until it's over.

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Because you know, whitey has no culture and never struggled against anything.

Originally posted by Sharky
Since when is Filipino a URM. I mean that would be great because I'm half, but from what I have heard it's not considered URM.

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i dunno...you tell me. all i know is that stanford paired me up with a minority recruitment student during my interview. a 2nd year was like "are you the pilipino guy from ucla?"

me.."yup. those other two guys are from ucla as well"(i thought since she was pilipina she somehow overheard our introductions in the student lounge and was also an undergrad at ucla and wanted to tell me more about the school)

so she continued telling me about the school over lunch with the other interviewees(it was in the student lounge so there were just med students everywhere talking to different interviewees so i thought nothing of it)

then she had to leave and said "well i have a meeting to go to but if you have anymore questions i'll email you since i have your email address and u can email me back."

I was somewhat cofused as to how she got my email addy and then just blew it off like whatever.

a few days later back to so cali i get an email from her letting me know that if i had any more questions to feel free to email her back. i emailed her back and asked a couple of questions as well as how she got my email address. she said my name and email had been provided to her by the minority recruitment office. she said that the office likes to provide minority med students as a resource for minority interviewees.

i did not apply disadvantaged so that can't be the reason. perhaps it was my secondary comments about experienceing healthcare in the philippines that did it. i know pilipinos aren't defined as urm by amcas. but why in the heck did i get paired up with someone form the minority admissions office? so make of it what you will...but thats the story.

If you read my previous post..."financial diasadvantage should also be a factor regardless of race/ethnicity" (or something like that is what I said in my first post).

If you have an inferiority complex b/c you are not a URM, that's your prob. I know of many white students that were poor and applied disadvantaged and they will hopefully get in...it's not just one's race but one's obstacles.

YOUR major obstacle seems to be one of ignorance, hope you checked the disadvantaged box, b/c your attitude will let you miss out on truly connecting with other minority students.

Much love to the ZURMS and all disadvantaged applicants.

I mean URMs

Or maybe Zealous URMs