DO vs. MD MATCH

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tanin

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I am sorry if this topic has been covered somewhere else in the froum. I didn't find any threads that would answer my question.

I am wondering if someone would please enlighten me a little about how the MATCH works for DO's vs. MD's. More spicifically, are they two separate processes? In other words, is it possible to rank a certain MD program your first and a certain DO program your second choices or you have to do either one or the other? If you choose to enter the DO match, once selected, is it true that you will automatically be pulled out of both matches?

Thank you so much
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tanin said:
I am sorry if this topic has been covered somewhere else in the froum. I didn't find any threads that would answer my question.

I am wondering if someone would please enlighten me a little about how the MATCH works for DO's vs. MD's. More spicifically, are they two separate processes? In other words, is it possible to rank a certain MD program your first and a certain DO program your second choices or you have to do either one or the other? If you choose to enter the DO match, once selected, is it true that you will automatically be pulled out of both matches?

Thank you so much
Click to expand...

Yes, these are 2 separate processes w/ different registration fees (through 2 different organisations) but w/ ONE central ERAS application.
DO applications can generally be turned in a little earlier than MD ones, interviews are earlier & the match is ~Feb 15th.
MD match is ~ Mar 15th.
There are 2 separate rank lists...i.e. you rank all your DO programs on one list & then all your MD ones on the other. If you match into the last ranked DO program, you will be automatically pulled out of the MD match.
One of my friends had a rank order issue....i.e. his overall #1 choice was an MD program, his 2nd - 4th were DO & then the rest were MD....so he could have not ranked any DO programs & just hoped to match his #1 spot, only if he doesn't get that, his next MD spot is #5 on his list...so he opts for the safer route, i.e. his #2 overall pick (which was his #1 on the DO rank list)

Hopefully, I made sense :laugh:
 
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THANK YOU! You did make sense. So if I understand correctly, if your frist choice is an MD you will have to opt out of DO match which is too risky...
 
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tanin said:
THANK YOU! You did make sense. So if I understand correctly, if your frist choice is an MD you will have to opt out of DO match which is too risky...
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The general rule is:
Make a composite list of both MD and DO programs and rank them. If your #1 is an MD program, Don't Enter The DO Match. Period.

The match is not for playing it safe. It's shooting for what you want.

A good % of folks don't have the guts to do this though....

If you can later sleep at night knowing you did not try for your dream place, good for you.
EDIT: sorry if that sounded harsh. Some people are play-it-safe people. Good for them. To each his/her own. I go double or nothing. I split Ace's and 8s. And I will always bet everything on Final Jeopardy. That's just me.
 
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....oh yeah, and I will ALWAYS bet it all on the video bonus question on Cash Cab.

Always, no hesitation. :)
 
theKirk said:
....oh yeah, and I will ALWAYS bet it all on the video bonus question on Cash Cab.

Always, no hesitation. :)
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I usually get kicked off before I even get to that part.:rolleyes:
 
theKirk said:
The general rule is:
Make a composite list of both MD and DO programs and rank them. If your #1 is an MD program, Don't Enter The DO Match. Period.
Click to expand...

Remember that DO students can match MD programs out of the match as well. I don't know how often this happens, but this is yet another option for us.

As for not entering the DO match, I will give the same example I have given before i.e. Would you pass up a sure shot w/ Jessica Alba, just for a chance at Megan Fox??? Fox is definitely hotter but Alba isn't too shabby herself. :)

Whatever you decide, Good Luck.
 
So the general rule is to SKIP the DO match so long as your #1 choice is an MD program...even if your choices from #2 to, let's say, #10 are all DO programs?
 
Rollo said:
So the general rule is to SKIP the DO match so long as your #1 choice is an MD program...even if your choices from #2 to, let's say, #10 are all DO programs?
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That is entirely a personal choice. People like "Kirk" would go for it but you have to weigh your chances of getting your #1 MD spot, how badly you want it & what your chances are in the DO spots. Do you want the MD spot d/t far superior training or just because it's close to family?? Is the #2 MD spot (#11 on your overall list) a good enough choice in case you don't match the first choice??

In my friend's case he went with the safe bet....but like Kirk said you have to be able to sleep at night :)
 
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FutureInternist said:
That is entirely a personal choice. People like "Kirk" would go for it but you have to weigh your chances of getting your #1 MD spot, how badly you want it & what your chances are in the DO spots. Do you want the MD spot d/t far superior training or just because it's close to family?? Is the #2 MD spot (#11 on your overall list) a good enough choice in case you don't match the first choice??

In my friend's case he went with the safe bet....but like Kirk said you have to be able to sleep at night :)
Click to expand...

Hmm, interesting points.

So let's say, I decide to skip the DO match, and only enter the MD match. For whatever reason, I don't match. And say I go ahead and scramble for an internship year...that means I could enter the match (DO or MD) again next year.

Is that considered a good "backup" plan? "Good" is obviously very relative in this context.
 
FutureInternist said:
....but like Kirk said you have to be able to sleep at night :)
Click to expand...


Actually that is a moot point.
Anywhere you match, DO or MD, you can kiss sleep goodbye for a few years anyway.
:D
 
Rollo said:
Hmm, interesting points.

So let's say, I decide to skip the DO match, and only enter the MD match. For whatever reason, I don't match. And say I go ahead and scramble for an internship year...that means I could enter the match (DO or MD) again next year.

Is that considered a good "backup" plan? "Good" is obviously very relative in this context.
Click to expand...

Again, you have to decide if the chances of you matching at your #1 MD spot are worth the risk & also if the program is really that good that you are willing to sit out a year & reapply again, at which point your chances at the aforementioned spot would probably decrease significantly.

There are plenty of DO spots that do not fill till after the MD match since people do exactly what you describe i.e. Take their chance w/ MD match & then go for DO as a backup.....but those spots may not be in the best places.

Depending on what residency you are going for you may be required to do an internship year....the problem arises when you do an internship, then match into a linked DO program that has an internship as well....one friend wanting to do ophtho had this situation & he said that the program informed him that they could not pay him for intern year again since the gov only allows one internship year per resident....stuff that you should definitely do research on before deciding.

Having been to school in Vegas, you would think I'd be willing to take the gamble...:D, but you REALLY have to weigh your chances of MD, the caliber of said MD & then the risk of sitting out a year.

Good Luck.
 
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FutureInternist said:
I will give the same example I have given before i.e. Would you pass up a sure shot w/ Jessica Alba, just for a chance at Megan Fox??? Fox is definitely hotter but Alba isn't too shabby herself. :)
Click to expand...

This clears everything up! :laugh:
 
FutureInternist said:
Again, you have to decide if the chances of you matching at your #1 MD spot are worth the risk & also if the program is really that good that you are willing to sit out a year & reapply again, at which point your chances at the aforementioned spot would probably decrease significantly.

There are plenty of DO spots that do not fill till after the MD match since people do exactly what you describe i.e. Take their chance w/ MD match & then go for DO as a backup.....but those spots may not be in the best places.

Depending on what residency you are going for you may be required to do an internship year....the problem arises when you do an internship, then match into a linked DO program that has an internship as well....one friend wanting to do ophtho had this situation & he said that the program informed him that they could not pay him for intern year again since the gov only allows one internship year per resident....stuff that you should definitely do research on before deciding.

Having been to school in Vegas, you would think I'd be willing to take the gamble...:D, but you REALLY have to weigh your chances of MD, the caliber of said MD & then the risk of sitting out a year.

Good Luck.
Click to expand...

That puts things into perspective. Thanks a lot for the insightful post, FutureInternist. :thumbup:
 
Whats is the matching service used for DO students? I know the NRMP is for allopathic residencies and they both use the ERAS central app, but where does the info go for DOs? NMS?
 
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bump...

FutureInternist said:

Depending on what residency you are going for you may be required to do an internship year....the problem arises when you do an internship, then match into a linked DO program that has an internship as well....one friend wanting to do ophtho had this situation & he said that the program informed him that they could not pay him for intern year again since the gov only allows one internship year per resident....stuff that you should definitely do research on before deciding.
Click to expand...

Could you please elaborate on the story of your friend? Particularly, what could he have done differently so he wouldn't have landed in this situation?
 
johncalvin said:
Could you please elaborate on the story of your friend? Particularly, what could he have done differently so he wouldn't have landed in this situation?
Click to expand...

Well, he did not match in the MD match his first try around so he contemplated doing a transitional DO year (so he would get paid) & then re-applying to his preferred MD residency again....only he wanted to do a residency that required a transitional year (& DO years I think do not count towards MD residencies)
I do not know if one is allowed to work for free (as he would have had to) if he had taken the DO transitional

Sorry I don't have more info, but I am doing the sweet, uncomplicated IM route & have not researched other things.

Any one else care to chime in ??
 
FutureInternist said:

Well, he did not match in the MD match his first try around so he contemplated doing a transitional DO year (so he would get paid) & then re-applying to his preferred MD residency again....only he wanted to do a residency that required a transitional year (& DO years I think do not count towards MD residencies)
I do not know if one is allowed to work for free (as he would have had to) if he had taken the DO transitional

Sorry I don't have more info, but I am doing the sweet, uncomplicated IM route & have not researched other things.

Any one else care to chime in ??
Click to expand...

DO years can count towards MD residencies.
 
OK.....so I got confused since I just moved 650 miles in 2 days & am still in the process of putting together loads of Ikea furniture...with little success :D

The friend was NOT going MD from DO....he was going from DO transitional to linked DO (which also had a transitional) hence him being required to do 2 transitionals, but only getting paid for one.

Sorry for the confusion
 
Unless you like an AOA program ABOVE an ACGME program OR you have minimal ACGME interviews,

DON'T RANK ANY PROGRAMS IN THE AOA MATCH.

You will be removed from the ACGME match and bound to an AOA program which may mean an extra year of residency....
 
Resurrecting this thread!

I also want to point out that the majority of DOs end up doing MD residencies- DO schools hate admitting that.

I am in a similar situation to the OP, however I am going for a Family Practice MD program. Since FP really isn't that competitive, it hopefully won't be an issue for me to skip the DO match.

Although very rare, sometimes PDs unofficially offer people spots before the match. If this occurs with you, just make sure to get this in writing and make sure it is a legal document before you get too excited.
 
MedicineMan99 said:
Resurrecting this thread!

I also want to point out that the majority of DOs end up doing MD residencies- DO schools hate admitting that.

I am in a similar situation to the OP, however I am going for a Family Practice MD program. Since FP really isn't that competitive, it hopefully won't be an issue for me to skip the DO match.

Although very rare, sometimes PDs unofficially offer people spots before the match. If this occurs with you, just make sure to get this in writing and make sure it is a legal document before you get too excited.
Click to expand...
Happened to my gf's sister, at an allopathic program. She's the bomb.
 
Be weary of these sort of offers - don't just sign to sign. Make sure it's truly THE program you want.
 
Norman said:
Unless you like an AOA program ABOVE an ACGME program OR you have minimal ACGME interviews,

DON'T RANK ANY PROGRAMS IN THE AOA MATCH.

You will be removed from the ACGME match and bound to an AOA program which may mean an extra year of residency....
Click to expand...


Why would it require an extra year of residency? AOA programs require an intern year just like ACGME residencies, but they're no longer than ACGME residencies.
 
Just Joshin said:
Why would it require an extra year of residency? AOA programs require an intern year just like ACGME residencies, but they're no longer than ACGME residencies.
Click to expand...

That's not really true. For example, the vast majority of ACGME EM residencies are 3 years (first year still considered intern year), while every single AOA EM residency is 4 years (first year is your traditional intern year).
 
The story about the above:

She went to the same school as me and my GF. She auditioned at Hahnemann during a rotation. They handed her a contract for IM and she didn't have to match.
 
It'sElectric said:
That's not really true. For example, the vast majority of ACGME EM residencies are 3 years (first year still considered intern year), while every single AOA EM residency is 4 years (first year is your traditional intern year).
Click to expand...

Here are 2 well known EM programs in Chicago and both are 4 years....

Sponsoring Institution: John H Stroger Hospital of Cook County
Specialty: Emergency medicine
Original Accreditation Date: August 22, 1987
Accreditation Status: Continued Accreditation
Accreditation Effective Date: September 29, 2006
Accredited Program Length: 4 years

Sponsoring Institution: McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University
Specialty: Emergency medicine
Accredited Program Length: 4 years
 
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ChiDo, actually, there are many more allo EM residencies that are 3 years long. The one you pointed out is a 4 year program, but most are 3 years. ALL osteo EM residencies are 4 years long. With the first year being an internship year. Allo 4 year EM programs DO NOT have an internship year. Usually the 4th year allows one to do research and such. 4 year DO programs aren't structured the same way as 4 year Allo programs.
 
That's ONE specialty. It hardly constitutes a blanket statement about osteopathic residencies taking a year longer to complete.
 
Just Joshin said:
That's ONE specialty. It hardly constitutes a blanket statement about osteopathic residencies taking a year longer to complete.
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I never made any such blanket statement. I'm applying EM, and therefore really only care about EM programs. I was actually just refuting your previously made blanket statement -
AOA programs require an intern year just like ACGME residencies, but they're no longer than ACGME residencies.
Click to expand...
And the person before you simply said it "may mean an extra year of residency".

To ChiDO - as someone mentioned just a few posts up (and as I mentioned in my original post), the vast, vast majority of ACGME EM programs are 3 years. There are of course examples of 4 year programs (Denver, hopkins, cook county, mississippi, etc), but those are few and far between. Not to mention, the intern years (AOA vs ACGME) are typically quite different.
 
Ok, I'm just a first year so I am a bit confused on the process as well.

My Mother works in a duel program of Family Medicine. I was speaking to a DO resident who said that because it was a duel program, you could rank it in either the DO or MD match. So he matched during the DO match, while one of the other residents (also a DO) matched during the MD match. This was about 5 years ago, so I don't know if that changed, but if the program is both AOA/ACGME approved, can one match during either match? In that case, I guess it wouldn't be an issue in ranking it among ACGME programs.

I know this particular program has no set DO to MD ratio, but after talking to some other duel programs it sounded like they took a certain number of DOs and MDs each year (ie: 3 DOs and 3 MDs). Is that how most of them work?
 
Vita said:
This was about 5 years ago, so I don't know if that changed, but if the program is both AOA/ACGME approved, can one match during either match
Click to expand...

You can match with the program in either match, but only a certain number of spots are dual spots. If you match in the AOA match then you will be able to sit for both sets of boards. But, if you match allopathic you still have to apply to the AOA to have your first year count as an AOA internship-- just like anybody else who goes to an allopathic program-- if you need it.
 
scpod said:
You can match with the program in either match, but only a certain number of spots are dual spots. If you match in the AOA match then you will be able to sit for both sets of boards. But, if you match allopathic you still have to apply to the AOA to have your first year count as an AOA internship-- just like anybody else who goes to an allopathic program-- if you need it.
Click to expand...

Gah that is complicated. So say you decide to wait and rank the program in the allopathic match - can you get one of the duel spots then or is it only if you match during the AOA match? I'm confused as to how the program decides who gets the duel vs. regular spots - I guess just whoever is ranked higher?
 
Vita said:
Gah that is complicated. So say you decide to wait and rank the program in the allopathic match - can you get one of the duel spots then or is it only if you match during the AOA match? I'm confused as to how the program decides who gets the duel vs. regular spots - I guess just whoever is ranked higher?
Click to expand...

Let's say a program has 8 total spots but only 2 of them are dual spots. Those 2 spots would be offered in the AOA match in February. If they do not fill, they can be given to MD applicants.... or possibly to a DO applicant from the match in March. A lot of the dual FP programs like DO students because they are American grads-- they speak English well. They have been known to fill the dual slots in the AOA match and offer some of their remaining spots to DOs as well through offering pre-match contracts. They have no idea who will end up in the dual spots, but that way they can certainly hand pick a couple of others. That does leave the question, though, of what happens if you offer a couple of DOs prematch spots and the dual spots don't fill in the match. I don't know the answer to that.
 
Right now I am sort of interested in derm. I have my own personal connection to it. I would like to stay in Michigan for residency. I know that most derm residencies require a traditional rotating year. So how would the match go? Do you match for a derm residency or do a transitional rotating year and enter the match again? What happens if you don't match for derm then is the default family medicine or internal medicine??
 
You apply for PGY1 and PGY2 (derm) spot in the match. On match day, you will find out if you matched at both, one or the other, or neither.

Obviously, the most important thing would be to match in the PGY2 spot as you probably could find a PGY1 spot anywhere in the country.

If you do not match into the PGY2 spot, you will have to go through the match again during your intern year.
 
ChiDO said:
You apply for PGY1 and PGY2 (derm) spot in the match. On match day, you will find out if you matched at both, one or the other, or neither.

Obviously, the most important thing would be to match in the PGY2 spot as you probably could find a PGY1 spot anywhere in the country.

If you do not match into the PGY2 spot, you will have to go through the match again during your intern year.
Click to expand...

Bump..

But if u match the pgy-1 and not the pgy-2 and then the next year reapply to derm again, would they require u to do another TRI?

And while were in the hypothetical world: if you matched a MD pgy-2, can u scramble into a DO pgy-1?
 
Input please.
Applying EM - DO and MD. 10 programs for each, as the cost of one = the cost of 10. My top two choices are MD. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that these two programs are the only 2 MD interviews I will get, whereas I should get interviews at all 10 DO. So, this is premature, but assuming I do get interviews at both top MD programs, my list would be 1,2 MD. 3-12 DO, in an increasingly competetive field of EM. Unless the MD program gave me a behind the scences "withdraw from AOA your going to match here", I should take one of the 3-12 DO spots right? Dont really mind the 4th year apart from loss of salary. I DO NOT, want to scramble.
 
IdontTakeCall said:
Input please.
Applying EM - DO and MD. 10 programs for each, as the cost of one = the cost of 10. My top two choices are MD. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that these two programs are the only 2 MD interviews I will get, whereas I should get interviews at all 10 DO. So, this is premature, but assuming I do get interviews at both top MD programs, my list would be 1,2 MD. 3-12 DO, in an increasingly competetive field of EM. Unless the MD program gave me a behind the scences "withdraw from AOA your going to match here", I should take one of the 3-12 DO spots right? Dont really mind the 4th year apart from loss of salary. I DO NOT, want to scramble.
Click to expand...

I'm doing the same thing and in the same boat. My plan is interview and make that decision after the interviews. I expect to have a much better idea and feel for how the feel about me/how I feel about them after interviews.

I guess it depends how much higher then 1 and 2 spots are for you. For me, they're worth going for (granted I get offered interviews and don't do something stupid during it). If your 1 and 2 are just edging out your 3 and 4, probably safer to go for those if you are really opposed to scrambling.
 
Average student here planning on applying to IM Allopathic residency programs.
Board scores are as follows: Comlex I 530, USMLE step 1 199
USMLE Step 2 214 and Comlex step 2 still waiting on results.
What are my chances of getting an Allopathic IM? What I be making a big mistake if I didn't apply for the DO match?

Would appreciate any thoughts anyone could offer.
 
Is it possible or does anyone know of anyone who applied for one specialty in the DO match and a different one in the MD match? for example ranking ortho programs for the DO match and FP in allopathic. Any advantages/ disadvantages to doing this? Just wondering if this is an option.
 
BlueRaider22 said:
Is it possible or does anyone know of anyone who applied for one specialty in the DO match and a different one in the MD match? for example ranking ortho programs for the DO match and FP in allopathic. Any advantages/ disadvantages to doing this? Just wondering if this is an option.
Click to expand...

Yes this is possible. If you match AOA you will be kicked out of the AMA match.
 
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