most prestigious oral maxillofacial surgery programs

Be'You · May 16, 2003

Which OMFS programs in the US are considered the most prestigious programs? In othre words, Top 5 or 10 programs!

thanks

dc-10 · May 17, 2003

The Mayo Clinic in MN

millmm · May 17, 2003

Baylor, Harvard/MGH

Yah-E · May 17, 2003

Now when you say "prestigious", I think it's entirely subjective on what you want out of an OMFS residency. Because one can think if I train at a 6-year MD residency, then that is more "prestigious" than a 4-year non-MD residency (which isn't true). Further, one can believe that a world renown medical school associated OMFS residency is more "prestigious" (which a lot of you tend to think in this forum) than a hospital sponsered MD OMFS residency, again which isn't true.

Furthermore, one can view an OMFS residency with the highest stipend as a more "prestigious" than a not-so-good paying OMFS residency!

Bottom line, again, there are no rankings on which OMFS residency is better or which is one more renown. Applicants and residents decided where they want to apply and train based on their personal goals and what the program has to offer.

Surely that all residencies have their own unique characteristics and just like applying to dental schools, once you're in an OMFS, you'll be an oral surgeon.

Once you've completed your OMFS residency training, you'll have to take the American Board of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery (ABOMS) licensure exams (written and oral) to be certified. So regardless of where you were trained, once you've passed your ABOMS examinations, you'll be respected nation wide, including in all hospitals, as an Oral & Maxillofacial Surgeon!

Personally, I just hope to get matched in January of 2006 somewhere, anywhere!! :laugh:

Need no "prestigious" for me, maybe just the highest stipends during my residency will do!

ajmacgregor · Aug 6, 2003

While Yah-E's post is an accurate appraisal of the factors that applicants "traditionally" use to rank the prestige of various OMFS residencies, there are some stand out programs that offer excellent training. Perhaps the question to ask is not which programs are the most prestigious, but which ones offer you the best education, both in terms of medical school (if 6 year), general surgery, and OMFS.

In my opinion, using quality of training and looking at the leaders in OMFS and where they trained, the top-ten OMFS Programs are:

1. UNC Chapel Hill
2. Parkland Memorial
3. San Antonio
4. University of Miami
5. Harvard/MGH and UCSF (tie)
6. University of Alabama
7. Baltimore
8. Houston
9. University of Kentucky
10. University of Pennsylvania

I'd also say that Louisiana State University and Baylor are very strong programs.

You should always consider whom you are going to train under and who trained them. For example, if you go to UCSF, you'll train under Dr. Pogrel, who did his training in the UK, so you'll get to do much more Head and Neck Surgical stuff, since there's no real complement to ENT in the UK, OMFS do a lot more there. Also, if you go to Harvard/MGH, you'll train under Dr. Kaban, who himself trained under Joseph Murray (the plastic surgeon who won the Nobel prize in 1990 for pioneering organ transplant). If you go to Penn, you'll train under Fonseca and Quinn. Kaban and Fonseca are among the best oral surgeons in the US.

Cheers!

AjM

UNLV OMS GUNNABE · Sep 25, 2004

north2southOMFS · Sep 25, 2004

this is hilarious, you guys obviously have no clue what you are hell you are talking about.

For instance, Mayo, they send there residents to Jacksonville for trauma b/c they aren't allowed to operate above the maxilla

and Harvard, they didn't match not one, but two spots last year in the match.

......real prestigious guys.....

Yah-E · Sep 25, 2004

"prestigous" based on what terms that is to be more defined!

Based on exposure/procedures?
Based on the most stipends through out residency?
Based on name of the med school/hospital?
Based on MD or no MD?
Based on the highest OMSITE (OMSAT) average?
Based on faculty research/publications/authors of textbooks?
Based on which residency applicants ranked #1 the most year after year?
Based on highest NBDE Part 1 average of enrolling interns each year?

What? There are so many....

As you can see there are many factors that one can use to define "oh, that residency is prestigious!" More often than not, more than one of these factors renders the popularity of one specific residency.

Short answer, again, it's subjective and there is no right answer.

Long answer....read this post again.

What is prestigious really? Man, who uses that word now days anyways? Do you or will you go to an OMFS residency interview and say to the program director, "I strongly feel that your residency is prestigious!" How about "majestic"? Can we talk about which OMFS residency is "majestic"? :laugh:

north2southOMFS · Sep 25, 2004

Yah-E, your the only one with a clue on this thread, and that is probably because you did an externship and discovered what OMFS residency really involves.

DDSSlave · Sep 25, 2004

north2southOMFS said:
For instance, Mayo, they send there residents to Jacksonville for trauma b/c they aren't allowed to operate above the maxilla

I have no interest in OMFS nor Mayo Clinic, but thought it might be helpful to point out to others that Jacksonville is apart of the grand Mayo system just like Rochester. And it should come to no surprise to send residents down to their other branch for trauma given how small the city of Rochester, MN is.

north2southOMFS · Sep 25, 2004

They may be part of the same healthcare group, but a totally different OMFS program.

Nice try.

omsres · Sep 25, 2004

north2southOMFS said:
They may be part of the same healthcare group, but a totally different OMFS program.

Nice try.

NorthtoSouth, I had this same discussion last year at this time. The majority of people on this thread tend to associate Ivy league or some well known Name with being the best. These are the same people who spit out Columbia and Harvard everytime some asks about the top dental school. Its just a knee jerk response. They usually have very little first hand knowledge of the particular programs and even less about other programs around the country. Ask most Oral surgery program directors who they think the best programs in the country are and you might be surprised what you hear. For instance if you ask which program practices the broadest scope oral surgery in the country, LSU Shreveport will certainly come out. I've never seen this program mentioned on this forum. Another silly thing a lot of prospective OMS applicants do is base their decision of a program on the medical school associated with it. So you have a medical degree from Mayo, that may help you match into Dermatology but it means jack when your OMS training is average at best.

Programs that I think are prestigious are these (in no particular order):

University of Kentucky
University of Alabama
University of Penn
LSU NO
LSU Shreve
University of Louisville
Parkland
Houston

Keep in mind that all other OMS programs are good, I base my decision off sheer numbers of cases, broad scope, variety, resident involvement in the case(that means cutting at least half), faculty, 6 year. Basically how big of a bad a$$ you'll be after residency. I'm sure others want easy, more traditional programs focused on wisdom teeth, orthognathics, and implants. I invite someone else to post a list that has more knowledge on these types of programs and 4 year programs.

north2southOMFS · Sep 25, 2004

Sorry OMSRES,

I forget, people see papers written from some institutions and think that years of your residency spent being a lackie for your attending who wants to put out more research papers than the guy on the other coast equates to being more well-trained than the resident at the less prestigious program who actually did all of those surgeries that other guy only wrote about.

BSSO · Sep 26, 2004

The only real way to know the quality of a program is by going there and doing an externship. Sadly there are only so many weeks off in dental school and you can't visit every school out there. But for me the most appeling programs are those that i visited (which makes sense).
Also in visiting different schools you can appricate that there are so many different aspects to OMFS, and you have to find what's right for you and what you think you would like to train in. Some programs do tons of head and neck and if your into that then these are your top programs, but if your more into conventional and non-oncological surgery then these programs aren't anywhere on your list.
It is really hard to decide on which schools are "the best" and i agree that it is a totally individual decision. But after its all said and done you are an oral surgeon nontheless.

UNLV OMS GUNNABE · Sep 26, 2004

BSSO makes a great point. I for one would like to know what schools focus on what. So far all I know is that Oregon does a LOT of oncology, if anyone knows about other programs please share.

toofache32 · Sep 26, 2004

As far as Mayo goes, I externed there several years ago in dental school. The med school was unbelievable in terms of facilities and funding, but I was not impressed with the OMS program at all. Simple extractions were a big deal there, and they sedated everyone just to take out a simple premolar.

In the OR they never operated above the maxilla. A trauma patient came in with pan-facial fractures one night...ENT did the trach, OMS did the mandible, and Plastics did the frontal sinus. That's ridiculous...why wake everyone up when one service should be able to do all that. By the way, that was the only trauma I saw the whole time. The rest was "tooth-call."

Also, the chief assisted (not operated) almost every OR case I saw. I don't know how you develop any confidence coming out of a program like that.

In the end, I didn't even apply. Oh yeah, they make you do years 1 and 2 of med school...I can't imagine a bigger waste of 2 years of my life.

Doggie · Sep 26, 2004

Sorry to digress..........but..........

What do you guy feel about programs that have OMS-1 as an intern year versus other programs that omit the intern year? Is that first year of intern that necessary?

River13 · Sep 26, 2004

Doggie said:
Sorry to digress..........but..........

What do you guy feel about programs that have OMS-1 as an intern year versus other programs that omit the intern year? Is that first year of intern that necessary?

It's better spent as an intern in OMS than wasted in what will be one of three years of med school. If you can get good foundational 3rd molar/implant surgery, mandible fractures, and hospital care down well during that year, you can concentrate on other areas of scope during your upper level years.

River13 · Sep 26, 2004

omsres said:
Programs that I think are prestigious are these (in no particular order):

University of Kentucky
University of Alabama
University of Penn
LSU NO
LSU Shreve
University of Louisville
Parkland
Houston

Keep in mind that all other OMS programs are good, I base my decision off sheer numbers of cases, broad scope, variety, resident involvement in the case(that means cutting at least half), faculty, 6 year. Basically how big of a bad a$$ you'll be after residency. I'm sure others want easy, more traditional programs focused on wisdom teeth, orthognathics, and implants. I invite someone else to post a list that has more knowledge on these types of programs and 4 year programs.

Good list by OMSRES overall. Kentucky does too much med school IMHO. UPENN and LSU Shreveport are good but do far too few implants. Parkland's first year should be an OMS PGY I and not med school, otherwise I liked it a lot. Louisville could use more complicated orthognathics and more cosmetic surg., but that may change now with their new Posnick-trained faculty member.

As far a 4 year residencies:
I thought VCU was the most well-rounded...few implants though...Indiana was good too but no cosmetic...Minnessota sounded similiar in the interview to Indiana but never showed yearly statistics to back it up...

toofache32 · Sep 26, 2004

River13 said:
It's better spent as an intern in OMS than wasted in what will be one of three years of med school.

I agree. My program made us do some of the 2nd year med school courses during our PGY-1...a big waste of time. However, I made a bucket of money moonlighting because of all the free time I had. In only a few months I made enough to pay all 3 years of tuition.

koobpheej · Sep 27, 2004

you all are forgetting that highland sees the most trauma in the country, if thats what you are interested in.

River13 · Sep 27, 2004

koobpheej said:
you all are forgetting that highland sees the most trauma in the country, if thats what you are interested in.

How many mandible fractures, ZMC's, Le Fort I, II, III, and frontal sinus fxrs did they do last year? I would be very surprised if they did the most in the nation...do you have these numbers?

north2southOMFS · Sep 27, 2004

I'm with you river, I'd put either of the louisianna programs and especially NO up against highland on any given day. People are forgetting that Louisianna is not actually part of the United states, most of it is actually a third world nation imported from overseas because the rest of the country is so nice. 🙂

River13 · Sep 27, 2004

north2southOMFS said:
I'm with you river, I'd put either of the louisianna programs and especially NO up against highland on any given day. People are forgetting that Louisianna is not actually part of the United states, most of it is actually a third world nation imported from overseas because the rest of the country is so nice. 🙂

Aint dat da truth!

BioABC · Sep 27, 2004

Hi!...I'm relatively new to the this site and have been poking around...Even though I'm a little over a decade away from being any kind of doctor(High School student), I have an interest in Oral Surgery, and was wondering what your thoughts are on Pitt's program?

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