Need some guidance on counseling vs clinical...yes again

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Aura5

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First...please, please please feel free to direct me to the proper thread if my question has been answered. I did a search for counseling vs clinical psychology threads but didn't really find what I was looking for.

I guess I'm in a little quandary. I got a BA in Comm/English but in the last last year realized I wanted psychology, took about 15 credits of it, etc. 2 years ago I wanted to try to jump into graduate for doctorate, but viewing this board, reading the entire guide to getting into grad school, etc etc... I realized I probably had not a good chance, with my lack of any (clinical or research) experience. I'm re-visiting this all again this year have made the decision to get a master's first, to be able to catch up on what I've lacked and get experience etc so I'll have a stronger resume in the future for Ph.D. I know this isn't necessarily the best route for everyone, but for me it really is the most plausible and I've made my mind up.

SO I really, really want to make sure I don't take two steps backward. I want to get an appropriate master's that will best gear me to a Ph.D. program that suits.

Eventually in my looking into master's program, I began again noticing the clinical vs. counseling psychology thing. 2 years ago I was pretty sure I wanted clinical. Because, the main argument is "clinical is for more severely mentally ill, and counseling is for 'healthy' people cope with smaller life stresses, helping them vocationally etc." Helping people with their careers does not interest me at all.

HOWEVER. There is appeal about the counseling psychology to me versus clinical. Despite several articles also saying they don't really have HUGE differences. But...I think I would prefer to work with higher-functioning patients...and by higher-functioning, I still mean with mental health issues, but not some of the most SEVERELY disturbed (as in, severe schizophrenia). That's just not really what I'd want. But I still think I'd want to deal with 'stronger' cases than what counseling might deal with. People who've experienced trauma/have PSTD, personality disorders, people who have the ingredients to be a spree shooter or homicidal...that's more the level I want to operate at. So I think that might be more clinical.

On the other hand, I like the kind of approach of counseling. They are about resolving problems, more looking at the whole person than the specific illness, working to help them cope with day to day life. Not as focused on "okay you have bipolar, which means just this, so let's just do this and this." That more overall looking at the person and their life approach appeals to me. You know, from what I gather, counseling psych seems to be less about treating an illness, and more about helping human beings cope with their problems, and that appeals to me. Then again, I also read that they (counseling) don't look at past events as much, although I think a person's past plays a huge part.

So...I'll stop going back and forth but hopefully someone can get where I'm coming from. Anyone who has been in clinical or counseling have a clue which might be a better fit? I can read all these blurbs online until my brain explodes, but it would be nice to have insight from some actually in the program.

I believe I'm still leaning toward clinical psych, and just will have to make sure the program I choose aligns with my interests and sort of angle of therapy.

I will discuss this with several schools I'm looking at when trying to find the proper master's. But thought I'd run it by you all as well. Again...I need to figure this out now, because I don't want to get a clinical/general psych geared master's than later think "dang it, I shoulda gotten counseling psych masters because that's really what I want now..."

Thanks for reading. 🙂
 
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My 2 cents is that you should look at the philosophies and see where you line up, and then look at individual programs and see what they might have to offer. I am in a counseling psychology program and have held placements in several settings, including community mental health and a psychiatric hospital wherein I have worked with a large spectrum of disorders from personality disorders to schizophrenia.
 
I happen to have a doctorate in Counseling Psych but did my internship in a hospital/CMHC and have practiced all my career in more traditionally "clinical" settings. I currently train students who come primarily from clinical programs. The difference that I see is that clinical programs course work is narrower and more focussed on pathology, while counseling programs emphasize a broad scale developmental focus and "pathology" is understood as people being "stuck" or deviating from the normal life span course of development. You can work with the whole range of functionality with either degree. So there is some fundamental philosophical difference in approach--but really the more important factor is the culture of the school you are considering and the realities of admission and funding. Counseling Psych programs are fewer and smaller; they also tend to fund their student pretty well. I would say don't stress about it too much and look for a school that has culture you like in a location you want.
 
Here you go:

Counseling psychology facilitates personal and interpersonal functioning across the life span with a focus on emotional, social, vocational, educational, health-related, developmental, and
organizational concerns. Counseling psychology is unique in its attention both to normal developmental issues and to problems associated with physical, emotional, and mental disorders.

Clinical psychology is a branch of psychology devoted to understanding mental health problems
in individuals and developing effective treatments for the full spectrum of mental, emotional, and behavioral disorders one may experience; depression, anxiety disorders, interpersonal
difficulties, and psychotic disorders are but a few. Clinical psychologists are service providers, many of whom work in clinical settings while others choose academic careers or careers in consulting. As a group, clinical psychologists are skilled in clinical practice as well as research on
clinical problems and clinical interventions.

What is the difference between counseling and clinical psychology?
Traditionally, the main difference between counseling and clinical psychology is their perspective and training. Counseling psychologist’s focus more on the psychologically healthy individual where clinical focuses on individuals with serious mental illness (e.g. schizophrenia).

Counseling psychologists are considered to be the generalists, they are trained in a wide variety of basic therapeutic skills. Clinical psychologists are typically focused in one or a few areas
(e.g. depression, substance abuse).
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I'd encourage you to look at the specific foci, placements, and philosophies of the programs you are interested in and worry less about the clinical/counseling distinction. My sense is that the intragroup differences among these programs can be just as large as the intergroup differences. You will likely find a wide range of approaches in both areas. For example, I'm in a clinical program that focuses on developmental and cultural determinants of behavior.
 
KillerDiller said:
I'd encourage you to look at the specific foci, placements, and philosophies of the programs you are interested in and worry less about the clinical/counseling distinction. My sense is that the intragroup differences among these programs can be just as large as the intergroup differences. You will likely find a wide range of approaches in both areas. For example, I'm in a clinical program that focuses on developmental and cultural determinants of behavior.
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Agreed. You want to look at their practicum offerings, where the students go for their internships, where students end up working post-graduation, etc.
 
I think it boils down to whether or not you want to conduct research. In my opinion, if you aren't at least passively interested in research than there are other degrees and licensures, besides clinical or counseling psychology, that can train you to be a good clinician and require much less time, energy, and money. If you insist on a Ph.D. in either of the two and aren't into research, then go for counseling. I know there's some research emphasis in both programs, but I think it's less intensive for counseling psychology.
 
citman27 said:
I think it boils down to whether or not you want to conduct research. In my opinion, if you aren't at least passively interested in research than there are other degrees and licensures, besides clinical or counseling psychology, that can train you to be a good clinician and require much less time, energy, and money. If you insist on a Ph.D. in either of the two and aren't into research, then go for counseling. I know there's some research emphasis in both programs, but I think it's less intensive for counseling psychology.
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Again, I think there's wide intergroup variation with regards to research emphasis.
 
I'd agree that research interest focus is not the variable of difference by any means. Counseling psych programs do typically give more exposure to a broader range of testing (eg: vocational, educational as well as standard clinical instruments) and often have some practica that are in educational settings and they are traditionally and predominantly Ph.D. programs (I think there are few counseling psych PsyDs now maybe but you will find better funding with PhD programs)--so research is a fundamental aspect of the work. The research focus is often on applied vs. theoretical topics.
 
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citman27 said:
If you insist on a Ph.D. in either of the two and aren't into research, then go for counseling. I know there's some research emphasis in both programs, but I think it's less intensive for counseling psychology.
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This is mostly incorrect. My Counseling Psych program, for example, would be hell for anyone who didn't love research. There's a wide range in both clinical and counseling but I've never found one to be reliably more clinically- or research-focused.
 
Thank you for your quick responses!

So the general consensus seems to be that I need to focus on finding a Ph.D. program that fits with my interests, regardless of whether it is counseling vs. clinical psych.

The only kink in my plan is that I'm trying to get a master's first that will best yield to me getting into a Ph.D. program. So...do I have to do this backwards? Look at PH.d programs first, figure out which one I like, then that will determine whether I should get a counseling psyc master's or general psych master's? Or does it matter? Would a counseling psych Ph.D program be okay with a general psych master's or are they bent on a counseling master's? I might not be able to get all my ducks exactly in a row, I suppose...considering how most people apply to 10+ Ph.D. programs and are lucky to get into one. Can't be TOO specific and bank too much on getting into one specific place. So it seems I should get a master's that would have most open doors to me...
 
Aura5 said:
Thank you for your quick responses!

So the general consensus seems to be that I need to focus on finding a Ph.D. program that fits with my interests, regardless of whether it is counseling vs. clinical psych.

The only kink in my plan is that I'm trying to get a master's first that will best yield to me getting into a Ph.D. program. So...do I have to do this backwards? Look at PH.d programs first, figure out which one I like, then that will determine whether I should get a counseling psyc master's or general psych master's? Or does it matter? Would a counseling psych Ph.D program be okay with a general psych master's or are they bent on a counseling master's? I might not be able to get all my ducks exactly in a row, I suppose...considering how most people apply to 10+ Ph.D. programs and are lucky to get into one. Can't be TOO specific and bank too much on getting into one specific place. So it seems I should get a master's that would have most open doors to me...
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As people said on other posts, I would recommend that you get the Inisder's Guide for many reasons.

Often clinical psychology programs do not admit those who have master's degrees in psychology. Counseling psychology programs are more likely to admit students who already have a master's degree.

And, yes, you can mix and match. Some people get a master's in counseling and then go into a clinical PhD program. And, vice versa.

I would recommend getting some research experience between now and the fall application season and apply to a few PhD programs along with master's programs. The PhD is the straightest line to your goal, so why not try to get in.

If you are interested in more practice-oriented schools or schools that are a balance between practice and research, I would recommend applying to some PhD programs in the fall. If, however, you only want to apply to research-intensive schools, then yes, you may want to get a master's degree first.
 
You are more likely to get funded if you enter a program where you will acquire the master's degree enroute to the Ph.D.. And in any case, why not find the program culture you find most appealing (MA and/or PhD) and apply there?
 
Jezebel, thanks for the ideas. I do have the Insider's Guide. Well it's the 2006-2007 version, but I read it two years ago. I know it said that sometimes master's is not the best route, but I don't know. I just don't think I have the experience to get into Ph.D. right away. I don't have any research experience and didn't take an undergrad research psych course. (I took intro to communications research, which is something I guess). And from what I remember reading years ago, it's difficult for someone like me to get research experience, even as a volunteer. Most people offering the research positions would probably choose one of their own students, or students already in a program, etc. Ahck!

My point in getting a master's isn't because I think ph.d. programs prefer those with a master's or anything...it's because at this point and time I'm trying to be realistic about what I lack and want to make up for it via the master's...if that makes sense. I mean I don't want to get too frustrated and just throw in the towel. With...well, I don't have a BA in psych thus I lack a lot of experience, but if I get a master's to catch up on the experience/classes that I lacked, now I have no chance because I have a master's. 😕 I'm hoping at least some programs would accept someone with a master's!

I do see your point though about might as well apply to both, because if I can get straight into a Ph.D., why not? Wouldn't hurt, I guess. Except then I have to think about relocating and all that most likely, and in the immediate future I was still planning to stay local to get the master's. Oh decisions decisions.
 
Don't get me wrong. In your situation, a master's would help you to become more competitive. Just be aware that some programs (especially some clinical ones) rarely, if ever, admit those with master's degrees.

Since you have an version of the book, you can look and see which programs admit those with master's degrees and which do not.

Depending on your situation (ie, if you are willing to leave your area), I would just recommend applying to a few PhD programs. Some programs prefer to train their students in research. And, still apply to master's programs as well.

Also, you may want to apply to master's programs that also have PhD programs. That way, you could apply to their PhD program when you are through with the master's degree. (It's been my experience that programs often accept one student from their master's program into their PhD program each year. But, that is just my knowledge.)
 
Jezebel09 said:
Don't get me wrong. In your situation, a master's would help you to become more competitive. Just be aware that some programs (especially some clinical ones) rarely, if ever, admit those with master's degrees.
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I don't think this is the case if you are talking about masters in general or experimental psych. I've never heard of anyone being turned away from a clinical program because they went this route--which generally involves more research than the applied masters programs.

Some counseling programs definitely prefer students to have a masters when they apply. The programs like this that I'm familiar with don't appear to care whether the masters is in clinical, counseling, or even general.

I've heard anecdotes of clinical programs being bewildered by applicants who hold clinical or counseling masters degrees already. I think that as long as you have good reasons for going this route, however, you can explain it thoroughly in your personal statement.
 
Jezebel09 said:
Don't get me wrong. In your situation, a master's would help you to become more competitive. Just be aware that some programs (especially some clinical ones) rarely, if ever, admit those with master's degrees.

Since you have an version of the book, you can look and see which programs admit those with master's degrees and which do not.

Depending on your situation (ie, if you are willing to leave your area), I would just recommend applying to a few PhD programs. Some programs prefer to train their students in research. And, still apply to master's programs as well.

Also, you may want to apply to master's programs that also have PhD programs. That way, you could apply to their PhD program when you are through with the master's degree. (It's been my experience that programs often accept one student from their master's program into their PhD program each year. But, that is just my knowledge.)
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This is patently false. I know several students who were admitted into PhD/PsyD programs (and by several I mean 80%+- from my grad program, ppl on other similar forums as SDNetc).

Everyone's case is different, a masters does not bar anyone from admission to a clinical doctoral program.
 
KillerDiller said:
I don't think this is the case if you are talking about masters in general or experimental psych. I've never heard of anyone being turned away from a clinical program because they went this route--which generally involves more research than the applied masters programs.

Some counseling programs definitely prefer students to have a masters when they apply. The programs like this that I'm familiar with don't appear to care whether the masters is in clinical, counseling, or even general.

I've heard anecdotes of clinical programs being bewildered by applicants who hold clinical or counseling masters degrees already. I think that as long as you have good reasons for going this route, however, you can explain it thoroughly in your personal statement.
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This is the case, especially for my #1 program. They absolutely prefer someone with a masters as Ive been told this by students and faculty there. I think as has been noted throughout the forum, you need to be able to articulate your reasons for wanting to pursue your education beyond that level clearly such that it makes sense to those reviewing your application.
 
Thanks again, everyone. So I think for now I'll stick with getting a general psych master's...and then when looking at Ph.D. programs, won't dwell on counseling vs. clinical but just whatever is the best fit. And knowing that some counseling would be willing to take a general psych master's (instead of it being that getting a non-counseling master's squelches any chance of getting into counseling ph.d., if that's what I later want...) Too many variables! But I'll get it sorted out and hopefully end up with some green lights along the way. Thanks again.
 
Aura5 said:
Thanks again, everyone. So I think for now I'll stick with getting a general psych master's...and then when looking at Ph.D. programs, won't dwell on counseling vs. clinical but just whatever is the best fit. And knowing that some counseling would be willing to take a general psych master's (instead of it being that getting a non-counseling master's squelches any chance of getting into counseling ph.d., if that's what I later want...) Too many variables! But I'll get it sorted out and hopefully end up with some green lights along the way. Thanks again.
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The down side of a general degree is that if you ever decide you don't want to go for a PhD, you aren't set up to practice. I feel your pain. It took me a long time to decide what kind of masters degree I wanted (eventually decided on general). The good news is that I got interviews at some counseling programs that require a masters first, so they definitely accepted the general degree as fulfilling the requirement. Also, I got a lot more research experience and a much better grasp on the principles in areas like cognitive psych, developmental, and neuro.
 
KillerDiller said:
The down side of a general degree is that if you ever decide you don't want to go for a PhD, you aren't set up to practice. I feel your pain. It took me a long time to decide what kind of masters degree I wanted (eventually decided on general). The good news is that I got interviews at some counseling programs that require a masters first, so they definitely accepted the general degree as fulfilling the requirement. Also, I got a lot more research experience and a much better grasp on the principles in areas like cognitive psych, developmental, and neuro.
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Ha, yes, exactly! I posted that conundrum on the Master's/BA portion of this psychology board. Would I be safer to get a counseling master's, just in CASE I don't get into a Ph.D. Then I might have more of a chance to still do therapy/practice. But someone over there recommended general psych as the best to get into Ph.D. too. So...yyeaah thanks for your sympathy. 😉 The fact you did get into a Ph.D. with a general master's gives me hope. Because one program I was looking at, they have a general master's designed for people like me...lacking from undergrad, want to get research experience for Ph.D., etc. However they said, with just their master's the kinds of jobs might be...doing research for a business firm or something, marketing etc...I'm like :scared: eeeh that's not what I want at all and wouldn't want to be stuck there. So it better yield the Ph.D.!
 
Aura5 said:
Ha, yes, exactly! I posted that conundrum on the Master's/BA portion of this psychology board. Would I be safer to get a counseling master's, just in CASE I don't get into a Ph.D. Then I might have more of a chance to still do therapy/practice. But someone over there recommended general psych as the best to get into Ph.D. too. So...yyeaah thanks for your sympathy. 😉 The fact you did get into a Ph.D. with a general master's gives me hope. Because one program I was looking at, they have a general master's designed for people like me...lacking from undergrad, want to get research experience for Ph.D., etc. However they said, with just their master's the kinds of jobs might be...doing research for a business firm or something, marketing etc...I'm like :scared: eeeh that's not what I want at all and wouldn't want to be stuck there. So it better yield the Ph.D.!
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Your masters should serve two purposes: show that you can do graduate work AND serve as a backup in case you dont get in to a PhD program.
 
Aura5 said:
Ha, yes, exactly! I posted that conundrum on the Master's/BA portion of this psychology board. Would I be safer to get a counseling master's, just in CASE I don't get into a Ph.D. Then I might have more of a chance to still do therapy/practice. But someone over there recommended general psych as the best to get into Ph.D. too. So...yyeaah thanks for your sympathy. 😉 The fact you did get into a Ph.D. with a general master's gives me hope. Because one program I was looking at, they have a general master's designed for people like me...lacking from undergrad, want to get research experience for Ph.D., etc. However they said, with just their master's the kinds of jobs might be...doing research for a business firm or something, marketing etc...I'm like :scared: eeeh that's not what I want at all and wouldn't want to be stuck there. So it better yield the Ph.D.!
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If it makes you feel better, I think that everyone in my masters program who wanted to eventually did end up going on for a PhD. Others did actually want to do those marketing and research jobs. To each their own.
 
KillerDiller said:
If it makes you feel better, I think that everyone in my masters program who wanted to eventually did end up going on for a PhD. Others did actually want to do those marketing and research jobs. To each their own.
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Okay so the next question (and I will ask the schools I'm considering some of these questions too, since they know what their specific program is, etc.)...out of curiousity, let's say in the interim between geting that MA in general psych and a Ph.D., I wanted to have some sort of mental health job. Would the MA give me ANY leg up on some kind of psych job (like, a mental health worker at some sort of facility), more of a leg up than if I just applied now. Or is it only good for marketing/research stuff without a Ph.D.? Does that make sense? I get that I wouldn't be able to be an LCPC or anything from the general psych masters, but would it count for any sort of higher level psych job? (And when I say higher level, I mean higher than what I could now...techincally right now I probably could get a job as a helper in a residential group home or something, even just as a BA...or a psych tech in a hospital, a lot of them are BAs...)
 
Annakei: Your masters should serve two purposes: show that you can do graduate work AND serve as a backup in case you dont get in to a PhD program.
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That's exactly what I considered when I ultimately decided on the terminal Master's.

Aura5: Would the MA give me ANY leg up on some kind of psych job (like, a mental health worker at some sort of facility), more of a leg up than if I just applied now.
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The thing is that the general psychology Master's does not prepare for applied clinical work, so IMO, if you were against someone else with a counseling Master's for a mental health job, the latter would have the "leg up." But, it might count for some higher-level mental health job, maybe around the administration level. Again, it's not set for applied work and is generally geared toward research-oriented jobs so it may not be as useful.
 
The scope of what type of mental health-related job experience at the bachelor's or the master's level depends on the licensure laws of your state. That should be a major consideration when determining where to receive your graduate training because it will impact the types of mental health-related job experience you will be able to acquire in preparation for the predoctoral internship.

Aura5 said:
Okay so the next question (and I will ask the schools I'm considering some of these questions too, since they know what their specific program is, etc.)...out of curiousity, let's say in the interim between geting that MA in general psych and a Ph.D., I wanted to have some sort of mental health job. Would the MA give me ANY leg up on some kind of psych job (like, a mental health worker at some sort of facility), more of a leg up than if I just applied now. Or is it only good for marketing/research stuff without a Ph.D.? Does that make sense? I get that I wouldn't be able to be an LCPC or anything from the general psych masters, but would it count for any sort of higher level psych job? (And when I say higher level, I mean higher than what I could now...techincally right now I probably could get a job as a helper in a residential group home or something, even just as a BA...or a psych tech in a hospital, a lot of them are BAs...)
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psich said:
That's exactly what I considered when I ultimately decided on the terminal Master's.

The thing is that the general psychology Master's does not prepare for applied clinical work, so IMO, if you were against someone else with a counseling Master's for a mental health job, the latter would have the "leg up." But, it might count for some higher-level mental health job, maybe around the administration level. Again, it's not set for applied work and is generally geared toward research-oriented jobs so it may not be as useful.
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Not so. Typically the administrative higher level jobs require licensure because while you may not be seeing clients pr providing direct services, you are more than likely supervising those who are to make sure they comply with state regulations.

Go with the Masters that will lead you to licensure so that you will be able to gain clinical experience in the mean time and show that you can do the work. If you are concerned about getting the experimental work in then discuss with your department how you can do a thesis onder their guidance if possible.
 
Well isn't this just the jigsaw puzzle. One second I'm gung-ho getting the general psych master's as best/safest option for getting a Ph.D., the next second I'm thinking I should go with a more practice oriented master's for back-up, and I haven't been able to find too many in my area that fit that role, unless I'm just looking in the wrong place/for the wrong thing. What would those master's be called? I haven't come across many master's in counseling psych kind of degrees in my area yet (Maryland).

It seems my state has something called a psychology associate, saying that to be licensed as such the applicant needs at least a "Possession of a Master's degree in psychology or a related field from an accredited college or university in a program acceptable to the Maryland Board of Examiners of Psychologists."...so I think getting a master's in even general psychology would count for that...I hope? That way at least I'd have something to fall back on (as psych associate) while I fight for the next years to get into a Ph.D. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again to everyone for being so helpful and offering advice. This board is a lot more active than the master's section! 😛
 
If you are open to relocation, look at programs in multiple states that offer bachelor's and master's level licensure. If you are planning to participate in an APA approved predoctoral internship, over 90% of those internships only accept people from APA approved clinical or counseling psych programs. There are some that will accept interns from school psychology programs. Looking at the APPIC information for this year will give u a sense of the types of internship sites that prefer clinical over counseling psych programs and vice versa.

Aura5 said:
Well isn't this just the jigsaw puzzle. One second I'm gung-ho getting the general psych master's as best/safest option for getting a Ph.D., the next second I'm thinking I should go with a more practice oriented master's for back-up, and I haven't been able to find too many in my area that fit that role, unless I'm just looking in the wrong place/for the wrong thing. What would those master's be called? I haven't come across many master's in counseling psych kind of degrees in my area yet (Maryland).

It seems my state has something called a psychology associate, saying that to be licensed as such the applicant needs at least a "Possession of a Master's degree in psychology or a related field from an accredited college or university in a program acceptable to the Maryland Board of Examiners of Psychologists."...so I think getting a master's in even general psychology would count for that...I hope? That way at least I'd have something to fall back on (as psych associate) while I fight for the next years to get into a Ph.D. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again to everyone for being so helpful and offering advice. This board is a lot more active than the master's section! 😛
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Hmm. Well for the time being I was hoping to stay local...because trying to figure all this out is enough without having to figure out moving, finding place to live, etc etc...So I was thinking get the master's locally and then when it comes to Ph.D. I will obviously be prepared to move as that's all about finding the right fit, regardless of where, it seems.

But...if that's what it takes (relocating)...And sorry, can you clarify APPIC? And does the APA accredit non doctorate programs? (That might be a glaringly obvious question to some)...but I thought I read somewhere in my search thus far that at one school, their doctorate was APA accredited but not the general master's because APA doesn't accredit master's...or something along those lines. It's a lot of information to take in so I may have misinterpreted it.

So many variables to consider. I admire you all who have successfully figured it all out in a short time and found a path that is what you want! 👍 I keep trying to remind myself that there's no way I can predict and avoid every obstacle, and there may not be the perfect "solve all" degree out there, just one that best suits what I need based on my priorities...but at the same time I don't want to be hasty and end up setting myself back if the information is out there to plan ahead. It's just a matter of 1) realizing all potential obstacles and drawbacks, 2) finding out who to ask to get the best answers about those obstacles 3) finding programs that will fit within what I need based on what I've found out and 4) actually getting in!!
 
For appic and apa approved doctoral internships, go to www.appic.org and then click "directory online". From there you can search the internship sites in both the united states and canada.

Aura5 said:
Hmm. Well for the time being I was hoping to stay local...because trying to figure all this out is enough without having to figure out moving, finding place to live, etc etc...So I was thinking get the master's locally and then when it comes to Ph.D. I will obviously be prepared to move as that's all about finding the right fit, regardless of where, it seems.

But...if that's what it takes (relocating)...And sorry, can you clarify APPIC? And does the APA accredit non doctorate programs? (That might be a glaringly obvious question to some)...but I thought I read somewhere in my search thus far that at one school, their doctorate was APA accredited but not the general master's because APA doesn't accredit master's...or something along those lines. It's a lot of information to take in so I may have misinterpreted it.

So many variables to consider. I admire you all who have successfully figured it all out in a short time and found a path that is what you want! 👍 I keep trying to remind myself that there's no way I can predict and avoid every obstacle, and there may not be the perfect "solve all" degree out there, just one that best suits what I need based on my priorities...but at the same time I don't want to be hasty and end up setting myself back if the information is out there to plan ahead. It's just a matter of 1) realizing all potential obstacles and drawbacks, 2) finding out who to ask to get the best answers about those obstacles 3) finding programs that will fit within what I need based on what I've found out and 4) actually getting in!!
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Work Ethic said:
For appic and apa approved doctoral internships, go to www.appic.org and then click "directory online". From there you can search the internship sites in both the united states and canada.
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Ah, okay. Thanks.
 
IMO you don't need to be looking up internship sites yet considering that internship takes place in the 5th year of a doctoral program...quite a few steps away yet 🙂. Also, no, the APA does not accredit non-doctoral programs, so it doesn't matter at the masters level. It's good to keep an eye on APA programs you may be interested in attending in the future, though.

You're right, unfortunately there is no one degree that is going to be the best option for every contingency. Why not apply to a few types of programs and go on some campus visits to get a better idea of what they have to offer? Is funding a concern for you? That is another variable to consider as you look at programs in your area.
 
Aura5 said:
Well isn't this just the jigsaw puzzle. One second I'm gung-ho getting the general psych master's as best/safest option for getting a Ph.D., the next second I'm thinking I should go with a more practice oriented master's for back-up, and I haven't been able to find too many in my area that fit that role, unless I'm just looking in the wrong place/for the wrong thing. What would those master's be called? I haven't come across many master's in counseling psych kind of degrees in my area yet (Maryland).

It seems my state has something called a psychology associate, saying that to be licensed as such the applicant needs at least a "Possession of a Master's degree in psychology or a related field from an accredited college or university in a program acceptable to the Maryland Board of Examiners of Psychologists."...so I think getting a master's in even general psychology would count for that...I hope? That way at least I'd have something to fall back on (as psych associate) while I fight for the next years to get into a Ph.D. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again to everyone for being so helpful and offering advice. This board is a lot more active than the master's section! 😛
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Maryland?

John Hopkins-MD
Marymount-Arlington DC
Loyola-Baltimore, MD
Argosy, Arlington, VA
Catholic-MA Psychology-not sure if they have the classes towards licensure-DC
Catholic-MSW-DC

You are better of going for the LPC or MSW, not many if any job call for the psychology associate.
 
Annakei said:
Maryland?

John Hopkins-MD
Marymount-Arlington DC
Loyola-Baltimore, MD
Argosy, Arlington, VA
Catholic-MA Psychology-not sure if they have the classes towards licensure-DC
Catholic-MSW-DC

You are better of going for the LPC or MSW, not many if any job call for the psychology associate.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the list...I've started plugging through those. Loyola offers Master's in clinical and/or counseling psych which I think is my first choice. Catholic has the general psych that seems more research-geared and may not provide much as far as licensing options...its main purpose seems to be providing research experience for a Ph.D. American is another that has that kind of deal. I'm finding some others...Frostburg as a counseling psych master's, and Towson offers both clinical psych and counseling psych master's but I don't fit some of the pre-req research classes I don't think...anyway I have to start talking to these schools and finding out from them my chances, feel them out kind of thing. Thanks again. And sorry to keep asking questions...but you mentioned MSW. Does that help toward a Ph.D.? For some reason I'm thinking that might seem too off the beaten track.

Thanks again.
 
Aura5 said:
Thanks for the list...I've started plugging through those. Loyola offers Master's in clinical and/or counseling psych which I think is my first choice. Catholic has the general psych that seems more research-geared and may not provide much as far as licensing options...its main purpose seems to be providing research experience for a Ph.D. American is another that has that kind of deal. I'm finding some others...Frostburg as a counseling psych master's, and Towson offers both clinical psych and counseling psych master's but I don't fit some of the pre-req research classes I don't think...anyway I have to start talking to these schools and finding out from them my chances, feel them out kind of thing. Thanks again. And sorry to keep asking questions...but you mentioned MSW. Does that help toward a Ph.D.? For some reason I'm thinking that might seem too off the beaten track.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

It depends... I think La Morena has the MSW so I cant speak to that but she is also going for the PsyD.

Social Work is more practice oriented but I am sure that there are MSWs that have entered into PhD programs. Start a thread to see..
 
KillerDiller said:
Also, no, the APA does not accredit non-doctoral programs, so it doesn't matter at the masters level. It's good to keep an eye on APA programs you may be interested in attending in the future, though.

You're right, unfortunately there is no one degree that is going to be the best option for every contingency. Why not apply to a few types of programs and go on some campus visits to get a better idea of what they have to offer? Is funding a concern for you? That is another variable to consider as you look at programs in your area.
Click to expand...

Thanks KillerDiller. You're the one who went for a general psych master's, right? :laugh: And I think you're happy with how your path turned out and got into Ph.D. and all. I guess it's just not going to be an easy answer but I will do what you are suggesting soon. I want to get down a list of my first choices based on my initial exhaustive web-search for programs in area; some may be general psych, some clinical, etc...and then start talking/visiting these places and asking questions, getting a feel...you know, hearing from them what their students tend to end up doing, etc. Hopefully get some good feedback. And who knows, maybe apply to all and see how the chips fall. I have to find the time to do all this...but...I'll make it work.

And funding is always a thing in the back of my head. I'm hoping to afford master's but...when I look for Ph.D. in future hope to get a funded one definitely :scared:
 
Aura5 said:
Thanks KillerDiller. You're the one who went for a general psych master's, right? :laugh: And I think you're happy with how your path turned out and got into Ph.D. and all. I guess it's just not going to be an easy answer but I will do what you are suggesting soon. I want to get down a list of my first choices based on my initial exhaustive web-search for programs in area; some may be general psych, some clinical, etc...and then start talking/visiting these places and asking questions, getting a feel...you know, hearing from them what their students tend to end up doing, etc. Hopefully get some good feedback. And who knows, maybe apply to all and see how the chips fall. I have to find the time to do all this...but...I'll make it work.

And funding is always a thing in the back of my head. I'm hoping to afford master's but...when I look for Ph.D. in future hope to get a funded one definitely :scared:
Click to expand...

Honestly, I know this is hard, you're at a fork in the road after being given so much information. But you are doing the right thing, asking questions and trying to learn from others how their paths turned out for them today.

My only regret is not going for the PsyD when I could have. There was a time when I had the opportunity to go for the PsyD and I took the MA route instead because I didnt think I was mature enough to complete the PsyD at that time (given the time requirement and other demands). Looking back, I would be finished this year had I went down that path. But the alternative I have now is that I am licensed and able to practice independently doing what I love.

So ask away, Im sure many of us are more than willing to share what works and what doesnt.
 
Aura5 said:
Thanks KillerDiller. You're the one who went for a general psych master's, right? :laugh: And I think you're happy with how your path turned out and got into Ph.D. and all.
Click to expand...

That's right, I haven't had any regrets. Then again, I knew I wouldn't be happy practicing as a masters level clinician, so the fact that a general masters is not a degree that leads to licensure was not a deterrent for me. I simply don't feel comfortable doing therapy unless I am secure in my understanding of all the empirical research and the theory that goes into it. So I was basically seeking a PhD or nothing at all.

Aura5 said:
And funding is always a thing in the back of my head. I'm hoping to afford master's but...when I look for Ph.D. in future hope to get a funded one definitely :scared:
Click to expand...

I only ask because some general programs provide funding. I'm not aware of any in Maryland, specifically. The closest may be William and Mary in Virginia or Villanova in PA.
 
Annakei said:
Honestly, I know this is hard, you're at a fork in the road after being given so much information. But you are doing the right thing, asking questions and trying to learn from others how their paths turned out for them today.

My only regret is not going for the PsyD when I could have. There was a time when I had the opportunity to go for the PsyD and I took the MA route instead because I didnt think I was mature enough to complete the PsyD at that time (given the time requirement and other demands). Looking back, I would be finished this year had I went down that path. But the alternative I have now is that I am licensed and able to practice independently doing what I love.

So ask away, Im sure many of us are more than willing to share what works and what doesnt.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm grateful and a bit surprised at how eager-to-help everyone is on here. Not anything personal with this board, but just some other boards I've posted on (health-related) the people are far less enthused! But we are all psychology people, in the field of helping others, so there you go 😉

Hopefully I'm not selling myself short by not going straight for a doctorate...I'm just trying to be realistic based on what I don't have right now. And thinking of waiting around for a few more years, trying to stratch and claw for a RA position somewhere...I'm just ready to do this and am thinking a master's is the best option in my scenario (of non psych BA, only 14 psych credits in undergrad, no experience, etc.)

And who knows. While you may regret that you didn't go sooner for Psy.D....think of those people you've helped on the way with your license from the master's that you may not have otherwise...cliche I know...but true...
 
KillerDiller said:
That's right, I haven't had any regrets. Then again, I knew I wouldn't be happy practicing as a masters level clinician, so the fact that a general masters is not a degree that leads to licensure was not a deterrent for me. I simply don't feel comfortable doing therapy unless I am secure in my understanding of all the empirical research and the theory that goes into it. So I was basically seeking a PhD or nothing at all.
Click to expand...


Good point. See I'm wanting to dive straight to a Ph.D. too...but also don't want to limit myself either. So I think I might talk to the different programs anyway, both the general psych's and clinical/counseling just to get a better feel. If the general psych's are gung-ho "oh yes 99% of our students who wanted a Ph.D. got it!!" then I'll be more encouraged...
 
Aura5 said:
Good point. See I'm wanting to dive straight to a Ph.D. too...but also don't want to limit myself either. So I think I might talk to the different programs anyway, both the general psych's and clinical/counseling just to get a better feel. If the general psych's are gung-ho "oh yes 99% of our students who wanted a Ph.D. got it!!" then I'll be more encouraged...
Click to expand...

I think it would be a wise choice to consider the applied Master’s. Not to dampen your spirits, but the acceptance rates for most PhD programs are quite low. Obtaining an applied Master’s may increase the odds of admission, and if nothing works out for you regarding the PhD route, you can always still practice.

I don’t know of any experimental or general psychology programs that assert that “99%” of their students got accepted into a doctorate program, but there’s always the chance that you will not get accepted, even with a theoretical Master’s. In that case, you might be just limiting yourself to research positions in your career or something unrelated to practice.

I'm sure you know this already. What feels right to you?
 
psich said:
I think it would be a wise choice to consider the applied Master's. Not to dampen your spirits, but the acceptance rates for most PhD programs are quite low. Obtaining an applied Master's may increase the odds of admission, and if nothing works out for you regarding the PhD route, you can always still practice.

I don't know of any experimental or general psychology programs that assert that "99%" of their students got accepted into a doctorate program, but there's always the chance that you will not get accepted, even with a theoretical Master's. In that case, you might be just limiting yourself to research positions in your career or something unrelated to practice.

I'm sure you know this already. What feels right to you?
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm still one the fence. I've contacted about four schools in my area with different master's programs to get a feel...a few general psych and a few clinical/counseling. The latter two might not be stand alone to licensure, but would lead to licensure with a little additional schooling because they are designed to cover areas that licensure looks for. Well, at least with the one program I got a response from. :laugh: She said while the course is great for preparing one to get a Ph.D., it has been useful also for those who've changed their minds and wanted to go for an LCPC instead, too. etc. I'm going to try to get a response from the other programs again, as well, because I do have a lot of questions tailored for each so I can make the best choice. For example after talking to that one school on the phone for ten minutes, I left with a definite feeling in a different direction than I had initially. The more info on my options, the merrier. I liked the sound of the one I spoke to, though.

I would prefer to avoid a program that is pure research...I want SOME classes on therapy/practice. So...we'll see... I do see what you're saying. Ph.D. is my goal, but don't worry...you didn't dampen my spirits. Me doing the master's first is because I realize that doctorate programs are very competitive!
 
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