Mentioning LGBT in Medical School Admissions?

Megan Rose · Feb 20, 2010

Hi everyone! I identify as a Caucasian woman and openly identify as a lesbian. I've heard that Med MAR sometimes recognizes LGBTQ as an underrepressented minority, and that we should select "yes" when we register for the MCAT.

Also, what has been everyone else's experience mentioning their LGBTQ identity in Med School admissions? My extra-cirrcs. are so wrapped up in LGBTQ advocacy that I'm undoubtedly going to be out on my application, but I was just wonering what everyone else's experience has been.

Thanks so much!
-Megan

rbnsafsadgf · Feb 20, 2010

Hi,

There is a discussion of a similar issue here and in other threads in this board. Do a search as well: http://www.google.com/search?q=site...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Short answer: if your sexual identity has affected your desire to become a physician in a positive way, then talk about it in your personal statement. If schools have a diversity essay, maybe talk about it. Some people on an ADCOM might still be bigots.

Good luck.

DoctaJay · Feb 21, 2010

I would be somewhat smart about it though a make sure that you choose the schools you apply to carefully. Some are still very averse to any talk of sexual orientation, others are much more accepting.

ucsfstudents · Mar 4, 2010

I agree with the above posts. You have to be smart about it. If the school does not have a strong LGBT community amongst the staff and students, you might want to rethink bringing up this issue, especially if it has not played a major part in your decision to become a doctor. Good luck! 🙂

flaun · May 20, 2010

I would mention it. Many schools, including Stanford and UCSF, actively recruit LGBT members. You should also apply to be added to Med-MAR when you register for the MCAT. Although the AAMC has not updated their language surrounding 'under-represented' you DO QUALIFY for Med-MAR (I verified this by email and telephone correspondence with the AAMC. Just make sure you disclose your race as white so that you don't risk misrepresenting yourself. Lastly, if a school will not accept you because of who you are...why go there and pay them hundreds of thousands? Queers will only be equal in society if we are out. I applied as an openly queer applicant in my statement and got accepted at Touro Med CA this year. Good luck, and IM me with any other questions

ucsfstudents · May 20, 2010

UCSF has a strong support network for LGBTQ students and faculty. You will have no trouble fitting in. Students proudly mention that aspect of themselves when they apply here. We pride ourselves on our diversity. Many faculty members are "out" and LGBT issues are addressed thoroughly in the medical school curriculum. Medical students run LGBT health forums and electives. We also have a few days where "out" faculty run our small groups and discuss issues related to LGBTQ patients. So apply!

Unfortunately, this is not the case at every medical school, so be smart. With that being said, if you cannot be comfortable being yourself, or taking your partner to school functions, etc, then you might not want to apply to that school. <-- easier said than done!

Good luck!

voitokas · May 21, 2010

I think that it would hurt your application more than help it at most schools. Medicine is conservative, and it would be unfortunate to hurt your chances at obtaining your life's dream in order to make a political statement.

njbmd · May 21, 2010

Megan Rose said:
Hi everyone! I'm a Caucasian female from middle-to-upperclass, which means I'm about as far from the typical "diverse" applicant as one can be!

But I'm also a member of the LGBT community-specifically, I identify as a lesbian.

Would Medical Schools be interested in knowing this sort of thing? Are we "underrepresented" enough to count as a "diversity" applicant?

Thanks so much!
-Megan

You are underrepresented in terms of percentages of the population versus percentages of medical students. Will it give you an advantage in terms of getting into medical school? Probably not.

Megan Rose · Jun 3, 2011

Hi again!

I am responding again to this question, because as I fill out my MCAT registration, I wanted to check in and see if any other LGBTQ applicants filled out their status on Med MAR as an underrepresented minority in medicine.

I am a caucasian woman, and I contacted AMCAS via email and it seemed to me that I don't qualify as Med MAR, although the above poster said that they contacted AMCAS and got a positive reply, that they did qualify for Med MAR.

Here's the response I got from Med MAR:

"The original intent of the Med-MAR program was for groups historically underrepresented in medicine and economically disadvantaged. The groups that are historically underrepresented are Black American, Mexican Americans, mainland Puerto Ricans, and Native Americans; however, each medical school decides for itself what its policies are with respect to diversity, including race and ethnicity. "

She didn't explicity mention anything about LGBTQ though.

What does everyone else know about this?

SocialMed88 · Jun 21, 2011

njbmd said:
You are underrepresented in terms of percentages of the population versus percentages of medical students. Will it give you an advantage in terms of getting into medical school? Probably not.

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/07/providing-the-best-care-for-lgbt-patients/

LGBTQ identifying people, just like other disenfranchised racial & ethnic groups in this country, face healthcare inequity on an unprecendented scale due to lack of familial healthcare access, community ostracizing, and an overall societal biases towards heteronormative ideals. As demonstrated with medical school diversity initiatives attempting to produce more physicians of color in an effort to reflect the cultural diversity of our country, the LGBTQ healthcare disparaties can be ameliorated by the recruitment of LGBTQ and LGBTQ-friendly applicants who are sensitive to issues specific to this underserved community. With that being said, medical school admissions SHOULD prioritize those applicants who will advocate for LGBTQ folks that are often disparaged and forgotten by social institutions that contribute to systematic prejudice.

Plus, if you're proud to be LGBTQ, you should be proud to be LGBTQ in every aspect of your life; and yes, that includes your medical school applications! Being LGBTQ isn't defined by a mere sexual preference or a lifestyle (as much as conservative bigots may like to posit), but rather it's defined by a culture rich with a history of perserverance, inclusivity, and unity. If a medical school admissions representative tells you otherwise, clearly, you don't want to shell out +$200,000 to a school that supports bigotry. 🙂 As a prospective LGBTQ hispanic applicant (double whammy of diversity!), I hope to one day have the priviledge of speaking to my fellow med. students/faculty about all these health issues specific to my community that desperately need to be addressed.

Telekinesis · Jun 21, 2011

SocialMed88 said:
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2010/07/providing-the-best-care-for-lgbt-patients/

LGBTQ identifying people, just like other disenfranchised racial & ethnic groups in this country, face healthcare inequity on an unprecendented scale due to lack of familial healthcare access, community ostracizing, and an overall societal biases towards heteronormative ideals. As demonstrated with medical school diversity initiatives attempting to produce more physicians of color in an effort to reflect the cultural diversity of our country, the LGBTQ healthcare disparaties can be ameliorated by the recruitment of LGBTQ and LGBTQ-friendly applicants who are sensitive to issues specific to this underserved community. With that being said, medical school admissions SHOULD prioritize those applicants who will advocate for LGBTQ folks that are often disparaged and forgotten by social institutions that contribute to systematic prejudice.

Plus, if you're proud to be LGBTQ, you should be proud to be LGBTQ in every aspect of your life; and yes, that includes your medical school applications! Being LGBTQ isn't defined by a mere sexual preference or a lifestyle (as much as conservative bigots may like to posit), but rather it's defined by a culture rich with a history of perserverance, inclusivity, and unity. If a medical school admissions representative tells you otherwise, clearly, you don't want to shell out +$200,000 to a school that supports bigotry. 🙂 As a prospective LGBTQ hispanic applicant (double whammy of diversity!), I hope to one day have the priviledge of speaking to my fellow med. students/faculty about all these health issues specific to my community that desperately need to be addressed.

You have to be careful though. People would start faking their sexual orientation to get an acceptance. I think that is why you can't be considered a urm because you can choose to not be gay at any point of your medical training whereas a black or hispanic can't fake it even if they tired.

SocialMed88 · Jun 21, 2011

FutureDr214 said:
You have to be careful though. People would start faking their sexual orientation to get an acceptance. I think that is why you can't be considered a urm because you can choose to not be gay at any point of your medical training whereas a black or hispanic can't fake it even if they tired.

You do realize that you're spouting hurtful and inflammatory rhetoric, right? Your use of the word "choose" implies that LGBTQ people have the potential of abstaining from loving their partners, loving their community, and, ultimately, loving themselves for who they are all for the purpose of appealing to a heteronormative ideal. In other words, you're inadvertantly advocating for self-denial as gays and lesbians can just "choose to go straight" if they really wanted to. Your statements are inherently subversive and only attempt to delegitimize the LGBTQ community by insinuating that this social group deserves little recognition due to "their own chosen path."

By asserting the fallacious idea that people arbitrarily choose to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, or queer only underscores the need for a physician workforce that is receptive and understanding of the social stigmatization that members of this community face on a day-to-day basis. As a prospective medical school applicant to another, please be careful about the way things are worded (especially within the context of the medical community) as they could clearly have a very negative impact on patients and their families.

Furthermore, your remarks concerning inauthentic applicants who would use the LGBTQ minority status as a crutch to get into medical school is not something that isn't already going on in the admissions process in relation to race/ethnicity. Many people check off URM status in their medical school applications without having any profound connection to their african american, hispanic, or native american familial lineage; although these people may rightfully choose to identify as URM, there is the possibility that these applicants may be exploiting their URM descendency with the purpose of enhancing their chances for admissions. However, I'm sure adcoms will be able to spot the difference as they're not necessarily looking for URM run-of-the-mill applicants, but rather URM applicants who very explicitly demonstrate a passion for remedying health disparaties in the underserved community their racial/ethnic composition reflects.

Telekinesis · Jun 21, 2011

SocialMed88 said:
You do realize that you're spouting hurtful and inflammatory rhetoric, right? Your use of the word "choose" implies that LGBTQ people have the potential of abstaining from loving their partners, loving their community, and, ultimately, loving themselves for who they are all for the purpose of appealing to a heteronormative ideal. In other words, you're inadvertantly advocating for self-denial as gays and lesbians can just "choose to go straight" if they really wanted to. Your statements are inherently subversive and only attempt to delegitimize the LGBTQ community by insinuating that this social group deserves little recognition due to "their own chosen path."

By asserting the fallacious idea that people arbitrarily choose to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, or queer only underscores the need for a physician workforce that is receptive and understanding of the social stigmatization that members of this community face on a day-to-day basis. As a prospective medical school applicant to another, please be careful about the way things are worded (especially within the context of the medical community) as they could clearly have a very negative impact on patients and their families.

Furthermore, your remarks concerning inauthentic applicants who would use the LGBTQ minority status as a crutch to get into medical school is not something that isn't already going on in the admissions process in relation to race/ethnicity. Many people check off URM status in their medical school applications without having any profound connection to their african american, hispanic, or native american familial lineage; although these people may rightfully choose to identify as URM, there is the possibility that these applicants may be exploiting their URM descendency with the purpose of enhancing their chances for admissions. However, I'm sure adcoms will be able to spot the difference as they're not necessarily looking for URM run-of-the-mill applicants, but rather URM applicants who very explicitly demonstrate a passion for remedying health disparaties in the underserved community their racial/ethnic composition reflects.

Sorry to offend. I just think some people choose to because they are tired of dealing with the opposite sex. I mean I could care less what your orientation is but I'm sure that is probably a reason why adcoms don't base their decisions off of sexual orientation.

And you are right people are pretending to be urm just to get admissions. I really didnt mean to offend anyone just adding a pov.

Vishna · Jun 22, 2011

FutureDr214 said:
Sorry to offend. I just think some people choose to because they are tired of dealing with the opposite sex. I mean I could care less what your orientation is but I'm sure that is probably a reason why adcoms don't base their decisions off of sexual orientation.

And you are right people are pretending to be urm just to get admissions. I really didnt mean to offend anyone just adding a pov.

I genuinely don't think anyone in the LGBT community becomes attracted to the same sex because they're tired of the opposite sex. Really. Maybe you've heard anecdotes of that but they're either only half-truths or flat out misrepresentations of the story. Regardless, I understand and share your view that it is hard to identify and classify a member of the LGBT community on paper. If preferential acceptance were to be legislated, you WOULD have a lot of idiots faking their sexuality just to gain admittance. On the other hand, it would be a horrible idea to require "proof" that you're gay. By this I mean active involvement in the gay community; I have never been active in this community because of familial and other issues. Many LGBT aren't "active" in the community and policies like this would hinder those individuals from qualifying.

The best scenario for an LGBT applicant is, in my opinion, to include it in applications tastefully ONLY IF it has affected your decision or path to become a physician in a significant way. Someone mentioned making a political statement? I don't think anyone intelligent enough to get into medical school is that careless. One usually utilizes a public forum to make political statements, not essays that will be seen by private adcom committees. Remember the goal is to convince adcoms why you want to become, and why you would make, a good physician. Period. If being LGBT is part of this then you would be dishonest not to include it.

Apollyon · Jun 22, 2011

SocialMed88 said:
You do realize that you're spouting hurtful and inflammatory rhetoric, right? Your use of the word "choose" implies that LGBTQ people have the potential of abstaining from loving their partners, loving their community, and, ultimately, loving themselves for who they are all for the purpose of appealing to a heteronormative ideal. In other words, you're inadvertantly advocating for self-denial as gays and lesbians can just "choose to go straight" if they really wanted to. Your statements are inherently subversive and only attempt to delegitimize the LGBTQ community by insinuating that this social group deserves little recognition due to "their own chosen path."

By asserting the fallacious idea that people arbitrarily choose to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, or queer only underscores the need for a physician workforce that is receptive and understanding of the social stigmatization that members of this community face on a day-to-day basis. As a prospective medical school applicant to another, please be careful about the way things are worded (especially within the context of the medical community) as they could clearly have a very negative impact on patients and their families.

Furthermore, your remarks concerning inauthentic applicants who would use the LGBTQ minority status as a crutch to get into medical school is not something that isn't already going on in the admissions process in relation to race/ethnicity. Many people check off URM status in their medical school applications without having any profound connection to their african american, hispanic, or native american familial lineage; although these people may rightfully choose to identify as URM, there is the possibility that these applicants may be exploiting their URM descendency with the purpose of enhancing their chances for admissions. However, I'm sure adcoms will be able to spot the difference as they're not necessarily looking for URM run-of-the-mill applicants, but rather URM applicants who very explicitly demonstrate a passion for remedying health disparaties in the underserved community their racial/ethnic composition reflects.

Long screed - your opinion is evident. However, if you get into medical school, you will find a bunch of heterosexual virgins. They "deny" themselves already.

Now, as I've said elsewhere IRL and on SDN, most gay folks are like most straight folks - boring. If you have to wear it on your sleeve, it doesn't matter that you're gay or straight or bi - if you're making a stereotype of yourself, many people will be offput. Is that how you introduce yourself - "Hi, I'm gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender/queer. Oh, by the way, my name is Betty (or whatever it is)."? If it isn't, then you might appear to be a regular person.

As for:

SocialMed88 said:
Being LGBTQ isn't defined by a mere sexual preference or a lifestyle

Really? Lifestyle and sexual preference - that kind of sums it up nicely. Again, how many not vanilla heterosexuals are living rather banal lives, and not going out to Chelsea every Friday and Saturday night? As I know several, I can tell you that they are happy just being themselves, and not going to every gay rights parade, wearing a rainbow, and making themselves stand out.

Even TR Knight said it - "I hope the fact that I'm gay isn't the most interesting part of me". As per my reading, you espouse the opposite - that it should be the most interesting part of a person in the LGBTQ group. That's unfortunate, 'cause, if that's your only trick, you're not going to be too interesting.

gostudy · Jun 22, 2011

Apollyon said:
Long screed - your opinion is evident. However, if you get into medical school, you will find a bunch of heterosexual virgins. They "deny" themselves already.

Now, as I've said elsewhere IRL and on SDN, most gay folks are like most straight folks - boring. If you have to wear it on your sleeve, it doesn't matter that you're gay or straight or bi - if you're making a stereotype of yourself, many people will be offput. Is that how you introduce yourself - "Hi, I'm gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender/queer. Oh, by the way, my name is Betty (or whatever it is)."? If it isn't, then you might appear to be a regular person.

As for:

Really? Lifestyle and sexual preference - that kind of sums it up nicely. Again, how many not vanilla heterosexuals are living rather banal lives, and not going out to Chelsea every Friday and Saturday night? As I know several, I can tell you that they are happy just being themselves, and not going to every gay rights parade, wearing a rainbow, and making themselves stand out.

Even TR Knight said it - "I hope the fact that I'm gay isn't the most interesting part of me". As per my reading, you espouse the opposite - that it should be the most interesting part of a person in the LGBTQ group. That's unfortunate, 'cause, if that's your only trick, you're not going to be too interesting.

This is why I love SPF. When I see an SPF post in an non-SPF I rubber neck to see the carnage.

deleted307836 · Jun 23, 2011

FutureDr214 said:
Sorry to offend. I just think some people choose to because they are tired of dealing with the opposite sex.

You're basing this asinine belief off of... what exactly?

Telekinesis · Jun 23, 2011

CityLights said:
You're basing this asinine belief off of... what exactly?

Gay friends I talk to. They say they always liked the same sex but it wasn't until they got fed up that they actually tried it out.

deleted307836 · Jun 23, 2011

FutureDr214 said:
Gay friends I talk to. They say they always liked the same sex but it wasn't until they got fed up that they actually tried it out.

So they were always gay, but they gave straight dating a try anyway? No wonder they got fed up :laugh:

.

In your previous post you made it sound like people sometimes choose to be gay. Maybe I interpreted that wrong, but sexual orientation is never a choice and it would be great for future physicians to appreciate that fact.

Telekinesis · Jun 23, 2011

CityLights said:
So they were always gay, but they gave straight dating a try anyway? No wonder they got fed up .

In your previous post you made it sound like people sometimes choose to be gay. Maybe I interpreted that wrong, but sexual orientation is never a choice and it would be great for future physicians to appreciate that fact.

But in the same token I have known people who tried the gay way(pun not intended) and went back to dating the opposite sex.

Apollyon · Jun 23, 2011

FutureDr214 said:
But in the same token I have known people who tried the gay way(pun not intended) and went back to dating the opposite sex.

Some people are bisexual - that is hard wired in as much as hetero or homo. In most cases, we can control ourselves sexually - we're not out of control, slave to our hormones, disregarding everything else in our lives. If someone prefers the other sex, they do. If they prefer the same sex, they do. If they prefer both, but lean more one way or the other, it's totally understandable that they might try the potato chips and the pretzels, and, although they like both of them, prefer the chips over the pretzels, and be OK with just having the chips.

My personal belief, unsupported by (to my knowledge) data, is that many, many more people (male and female) could successfully be with the same and other gender, but choose one way or the other (like the porn star that normally did only gay, but, in one film, had sex with a woman, and said "I liked it!"). How do you offend a homosexual (especially a male)? Just like you offend a heterosexual male - tell the hetero guy he's gay, and tell the gay dude he's not. Tell a homosexual that they're more than a bit straight, and you'll get the same self-conscious response as the other way around.

SocialMed88 · Jun 23, 2011

Apollyon said:
Really? Lifestyle and sexual preference - that kind of sums it up nicely. Again, how many not vanilla heterosexuals are living rather banal lives, and not going out to Chelsea every Friday and Saturday night? As I know several, I can tell you that they are happy just being themselves, and not going to every gay rights parade, wearing a rainbow, and making themselves stand out.

1) Being LGBTQ is integral to alot of things in my life and many others folks within my community; i'm obviously aware that it may not be for others who identify as LGBTQ and they are free to feel that way. The same applies for people of color in terms of their acceptance or rejection of their cultural values and customs. However, society will be quick to categorize certain people due to their PERCEIVED race. The same phenomena happens to LGBTQ people due to their PERCEIVED gender expression. Although many community members may have the ability to "pass" as heterosexual people without having to compromise their gender expression/individuality, this reality doesn't reign true for many others. Would you advocate for self-identifying hispanics and blacks that seem to "pass" as white to also keep mum about their cultural identity? I hope not. If you want LGBTQ people to be "happy just being themselves," don't try to silence them by advocating for conformity.

1) Secondly, you clearly haven't been taught about cultural competency. The fact that you trivialize "gay rights parades" and "wearing a rainbow" shows how little you know about LGBTQ history and the ongoing struggle for equality and acceptance. Would you ever stop a hispanic identifying individual from waving their mexican flag or from celebrating mexican indepedence? Is there something wrong with "making themselves standout" as proud hispanics? If you find something wrong with that, then clearly you're a proponent of assimilation and you don't appreciate multiculturalism/diversity.

3) Being LGBTQ is definitely not the most interesting part of who I am, but regardless, it's important to my personhood. LGBTQ community members are my extended family; is your family not important to you? Is your cultural history not important to you?

You're entitled to your own opinion. Considering that this exchange can go on forever, my only hope is that you realize how important it is to be cognizant about how your perceptions concerning LGBTQ people may hinder your ability to provide compassionate care to members of this community (as i'm talking to many prospective physicians). LGBTQ people are not just individuals who like the same-sex, they have unique healthcare issues that must be addressed in a sensitive and thoughtful manner. Luckily, the institute of medicine thinks this way also, http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2011/The-Health-of-Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-and-Transgender-People.aspx.

gostudy · Jun 24, 2011

SocialMed88 said:
Secondly, you clearly haven't been taught about cultural competency.

This is now routinely taught at many med schools as scheduled hand-holding time.

Apollyon · Jun 24, 2011

SocialMed88 said:
1) Being LGBTQ is integral to alot of things in my life and many others folks within my community; i'm obviously aware that it may not be for others who identify as LGBTQ and they are free to feel that way. The same applies for people of color in terms of their acceptance or rejection of their cultural values and customs. However, society will be quick to categorize certain people due to their PERCEIVED race. The same phenomena happens to LGBTQ people due to their PERCEIVED gender expression. Although many community members may have the ability to "pass" as heterosexual people without having to compromise their gender expression/individuality, this reality doesn't reign true for many others. Would you advocate for self-identifying hispanics and blacks that seem to "pass" as white to also keep mum about their cultural identity? I hope not. If you want LGBTQ people to be "happy just being themselves," don't try to silence them by advocating for conformity.

1) Secondly, you clearly haven't been taught about cultural competency. The fact that you trivialize "gay rights parades" and "wearing a rainbow" shows how little you know about LGBTQ history and the ongoing struggle for equality and acceptance. Would you ever stop a hispanic identifying individual from waving their mexican flag or from celebrating mexican indepedence? Is there something wrong with "making themselves standout" as proud hispanics? If you find something wrong with that, then clearly you're a proponent of assimilation and you don't appreciate multiculturalism/diversity.

3) Being LGBTQ is definitely not the most interesting part of who I am, but regardless, it's important to my personhood. LGBTQ community members are my extended family; is your family not important to you? Is your cultural history not important to you?

You're entitled to your own opinion. Considering that this exchange can go on forever, my only hope is that you realize how important it is to be cognizant about how your perceptions concerning LGBTQ people may hinder your ability to provide compassionate care to members of this community (as i'm talking to many prospective physicians). LGBTQ people are not just individuals who like the same-sex, they have unique healthcare issues that must be addressed in a sensitive and thoughtful manner. Luckily, the institute of medicine thinks this way also, http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2011/The-Health-of-Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-and-Transgender-People.aspx.

I had a long post written, and it was pretty good, but then I thought that I would cut this down to this:

1. Your condescending, paternalistic, offensive tone does your effort harm. I'm guessing you're early 20s, if that, and have never been outside an academic environment. I'm not going to say "clearly" or "obviously", because, in my experience, people that say same are talking about things that are not "clear" or "obvious".

2. Name ONE "unique" health issue to the LGBTQ community. ONE. HIV/AIDS? No. Anal cancer? No. Depression? No. Eating disorders? No. Body dysmorphic disorders? No. Heart disease? No. None are "unique", but are more highly represented (and that is from the 300+ page report you linked).

3. You bandy "cultural competence", and that's funny, because I deal with many cultures in my practice, and the staff gets a laugh at how "culturally aware" I am. I deal with LGBT people every day - either colleagues (such as the lesbian couple that works with me - neither is "butch" nor "lipstick lesbian") or patients, who rarely come in for their mental illness, but do for their ankle twists, and productive coughs, and finger abscesses. And do you even know about the "fa'afafine" and "mahu"? I'll bet that you know little or nothing at all. However, I see these folks daily. And they love me, because I treat them like people, and love them for their culture, and who they are.

To hew to the OP, what residency directors want is someone who will complete the program, and not make waves. I know of one gay PD, but he is not "flaming". It's just who he is. If you equate "not being a homosexual stereotype" with "trying to pass as straight", well, all I can do is wish you luck, because, if you make it plainly known about your sexuality, that is going to turn off a LOT of people, including those in influential positions. But you do what you want to do. Sincerely, good luck!

RoseHelene · Jul 5, 2011

To the OP: Absolutely in your place I would mention it. If the interviewer isn't OK, then IMHO you probably don't want to go there anyway.

I'm also caucasian and gay. I'll be mentioning it in my application - it's kinda hard not to. It's shaped huge portions of my life, including where I'm applying (I have a DP and am location restricted because we own a house and can't sell) and my medical interests (sexual minority medicine).

Salt Salt · Jul 30, 2014

Apollyon said:
I had a long post written, and it was pretty good, but then I thought that I would cut this down to this:

1. Your condescending, paternalistic, offensive tone does your effort harm. I'm guessing you're early 20s, if that, and have never been outside an academic environment. I'm not going to say "clearly" or "obviously", because, in my experience, people that say same are talking about things that are not "clear" or "obvious".

2. Name ONE "unique" health issue to the LGBTQ community. ONE. HIV/AIDS? No. Anal cancer? No. Depression? No. Eating disorders? No. Body dysmorphic disorders? No. Heart disease? No. None are "unique", but are more highly represented (and that is from the 300+ page report you linked).

3. You bandy "cultural competence", and that's funny, because I deal with many cultures in my practice, and the staff gets a laugh at how "culturally aware" I am. I deal with LGBT people every day - either colleagues (such as the lesbian couple that works with me - neither is "butch" nor "lipstick lesbian") or patients, who rarely come in for their mental illness, but do for their ankle twists, and productive coughs, and finger abscesses. And do you even know about the "fa'afafine" and "mahu"? I'll bet that you know little or nothing at all. However, I see these folks daily. And they love me, because I treat them like people, and love them for their culture, and who they are.

To hew to the OP, what residency directors want is someone who will complete the program, and not make waves. I know of one gay PD, but he is not "flaming". It's just who he is. If you equate "not being a homosexual stereotype" with "trying to pass as straight", well, all I can do is wish you luck, because, if you make it plainly known about your sexuality, that is going to turn off a LOT of people, including those in influential positions. But you do what you want to do. Sincerely, good luck!

Apollyon said:
Some people are bisexual - that is hard wired in as much as hetero or homo. In most cases, we can control ourselves sexually - we're not out of control, slave to our hormones, disregarding everything else in our lives. If someone prefers the other sex, they do. If they prefer the same sex, they do. If they prefer both, but lean more one way or the other, it's totally understandable that they might try the potato chips and the pretzels, and, although they like both of them, prefer the chips over the pretzels, and be OK with just having the chips.

My personal belief, unsupported by (to my knowledge) data, is that many, many more people (male and female) could successfully be with the same and other gender, but choose one way or the other (like the porn star that normally did only gay, but, in one film, had sex with a woman, and said "I liked it!"). How do you offend a homosexual (especially a male)? Just like you offend a heterosexual male - tell the hetero guy he's gay, and tell the gay dude he's not. Tell a homosexual that they're more than a bit straight, and you'll get the same self-conscious response as the other way around.

Lol

Apollyon · Jul 30, 2014

Salt Salt said:
I know this thread is like 3 years old but this guy sounds like an ass. Haha!

Wow! You win at the internet! Also, you are violating the terms of service (TOS)! Hurray for you! (Although, don't worry - you'll get away with it.)

Instead of a vapid, flip, hollow statement, why not something a little more substantial (and with the context to which I had replied included)? Or is that beyond you?

Salt Salt · Jul 30, 2014

It IS a little beyond me, yes. But to give you an idea of the sort of thing that I hope you've changed in the last few years, how about your assertion that gay people could have successful straight relationships but choose not to, and vice versa. Is this based in data? No, you (bizarrely) frankly acknowledge that this opinion is not supported by the data. What is your evidence, then? Not merely anecdotal evidence, but the anecdote of a porn star in an interview.

Last post has been edited to comply with TOS (I assume).

Apollyon · Jul 30, 2014

Salt Salt said:
It IS a little beyond me, yes. But to give you an idea of the sort of thing that I hope you've changed in the last few years, how about your assertion that gay people could have successful straight relationships but choose not to, and vice versa. Is this based in data? No, you (bizarrely) frankly acknowledge that this opinion is not supported by the data. What is your evidence, then? Not merely anecdotal evidence, but the anecdote of a porn star in an interview.

Last post has been edited to comply with TOS (I assume).

Did you read the TOS (which you acknowledged you did when you signed up)? What it says is to not insult people.

What you are saying is that people are binary in being homo or hetero, unless they're bi? Is that it? It seems as if you are spoiling for an argument. Are you honestly saying that there are no homosexuals that have had successful straight relationships, without identifying as bisexual? Are you aware of the "down low" culture among African American men? And, as this topic doesn't interest me (and somewhat bothers me, NOT due to the intrinsic nature, at all, but the politics - small groups of an already small group agitating for whatever that is not necessarily representative of the majority of the group), I didn't do research about bi-curiosity and bisexual proclivities - which is why I stated that I do not have research. I know you're new on SDN, because you question that ("bizarrely"). No, not bizarre on SDN - the resound response is "source?" when one makes such statements. That is why I stated that I had no research. However, to deny the spectrum of sexual attraction as a whole seems intuitively wrong.

Your value judgment (ironic, that is) of the anecdote I used is telling. That one I chose was for the high profile nature.

What is the dirty secret of the gay populace is that, on average, gay folks are as boring as straight folks. "Passing for straight" is a loaded phrase. Gay folks look "normal", because they ARE normal. It's not "passing for straight" - it is "being yourself". It's a bummer not being able to be yourself, so people that are comfortable in their own skin are great. I mean, who would CHOOSE to do something for which other people might abuse them , whether verbally, physically, or other? That, for me, lets me know that being gay is not a choice. And, what did TR Knight say about his coming out? It was something to the effect of, "I hope that it is not the most interesting thing about me". Exactly.

Salt Salt · Jul 30, 2014

Apollyon said:
Did you read the TOS (which you acknowledged you did when you signed up)? What it says is to not insult people.

If this is the case, then YOU are the one in violation of the almighty TOS. Pretending that you understand people's sexualities better than them IS insulting. It's condescending and annoying. And frankly, I don't see how a physician would consciously choose not to research the topic before choosing such a controversial opinion. That really is bizarre to me.

To be clear, I never said sexuality wasn't a spectrum; you're setting up a straw man. I only said that your insistence that most people could function as straight if they really wanted to struck me as arrogant and problematic (not to mention, neglectful of any empirical research, by your own admission).

I haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about in the last two paragraphs; it clearly isn't directed at anything I said. I really have no idea why you're talking about whether sexual orientation is "interesting" or not.

Apollyon · Jul 30, 2014

Salt Salt said:
If this is the case, then YOU are the one in violation of the almighty TOS. Pretending that you understand people's sexualities better than them IS insulting. It's condescending and annoying. And frankly, I don't see how a physician would consciously choose not to research the topic before choosing such a controversial opinion. That really is bizarre to me.

To be clear, I never said sexuality wasn't a spectrum; you're setting up a straw man. I only said that your insistence that most people could function as straight if they really wanted to struck me as arrogant and problematic (not to mention, neglectful of any empirical research, by your own admission).

I haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about in the last two paragraphs; it clearly isn't directed at anything I said. I really have no idea why you're talking about whether sexual orientation is "interesting" or not.

"Clearly" "straw man" - yes, internet rhetoric. Whatever. If you are unable, that's on you. Good luck!

Salt Salt · Jul 30, 2014

*rolls eyes* I have never accused someone of making a straw man on the Internet before. You have the distinction of being the first. Because you did.

And your last two paragraphs were clearly (yes, *clearly*) just you rambling and/or ranting. They were irrelevant to literally everything I had said---I was just pointing it out. Sorry.

Apollyon · Jul 30, 2014

Salt Salt said:
*rolls eyes* I have never accused someone of making a straw man on the Internet before. You have the distinction of being the first. Because you did.

And your last two paragraphs were clearly (yes, *clearly*) just you rambling and/or ranting. They were irrelevant to literally everything I had said---I was just pointing it out. Sorry.

You bumped a 3 year old thread to start an argument. You are using internet arguments. Whatever. Go do any {stereotypic activity} {time of your choice}. "Clearly."

Salt Salt · Jul 30, 2014

Correction: I bumped a 3 year old thread to win an argument >🙂

Too bad you haven't changed in that time 🙁

bonedoc82 · Aug 3, 2014

Good luck everyone!

I am a PGY-1 Orthopaedic Surgery Resident and vividly remember applying and going through the process.

Any questions, please send them my way.

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