vet experience vs. animal experience

It's been a while since I filled out the VMCAS application, but I believe anything under the supervision of a veterinary doctor is considered to be veterinary experience. While you will have to qualify your work (when putting job duties in the application), I would include it as vet work. Some people may try and split hairs, but I think for the most part, as long as you qualify it, you should be fine. Also keep this in consideration- assuming the kennel is at a clinic, you are ultimately held responsible by the vet. Should an animal get injured, or become sick, you must report it (though sometimes indirectly) to the doctor. So you are technically under their supervision.

This is the answer from VMCAS: https://www.vmcas.org/instructions/ins_veterinary.htm

A lot of the people here have conflicting thoughts on the topic.

If your boss is a vet, it's vet experience.

Put it under vet experience.

Myotis said:

Thanks for the input . I was hoping it'd count as vet experience. But I have another question regarding research, does it ALL count as vet experience? I will be doing strictly observational wildlife research this summer for one of the professors on campus (not a vet). I know research experience is put as vet experience according to the stats that I've seen, but if it's not related to vet med, why does it count as vet experience? Is it just the fact that you're working under someone with a PhD? Sorry if my questions seem dumb haha, I will be applying in a year and I'm trying to avoid as many panic attacks as possible for when that time comes

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Well if it involved animals and you worked with a health professional, then strictly under the vmcas directions, no one can crucify you for calling it vet experience. Individual vet schools will move it or keep it under the classification as they see fit, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I don't think anyone will think less of you for putting it under vet experience. That being said, it might be worth calling up all the vet schools you'll be applying to and take a poll.

I guess in this case, the question is whether this particular PhD counts as a "health professional." I think PhD's are generally considered "health professionals" in the context of biomedical research because whether you have a lab run by a PhD, MD, or DVM, there are many types of research topics/methods that overlap, whereas a PhD's ecology research looking at the relationship between trees and flies... not so much. But then every school is different!

Minnerbelle said:

Well if it involved animals and you worked with a health professional, then strictly under the vmcas directions, no one can crucify you for calling it vet experience. Individual vet schools will move it or keep it under the classification as they see fit, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I don't think anyone will think less of you for putting it under vet experience. That being said, it might be worth calling up all the vet schools you'll be applying to and take a poll.

I guess in this case, the question is whether this particular PhD counts as a "health professional." I think PhD's are generally considered "health professionals" in the context of biomedical research because whether you have a lab run by a PhD, MD, or DVM, there are many types of research topics/methods that overlap, whereas a PhD's ecology research looking at the relationship between trees and flies... not so much. But then every school is different!

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It also depends on how you slant it My research is on the effects of contaminants on larval fish, and I'm definitely counting on it as much of my "veterinary experience." While not strictly biomedical, this ecological topic does have human health implications as well as animal health (though not explicitly stating those linkages).

NStarz said:

It also depends on how you slant it My research is on the effects of contaminants on larval fish, and I'm definitely counting on it as much of my "veterinary experience." While not strictly biomedical, this ecological topic does have human health implications as well as animal health (though not explicitly stating those linkages).

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Yep exactly! adcoms may/may not buy it, and move it to animal experience or whatever, but there's nothing to lose (well... as long as it's not like astronomy or something). but there were maaany people on here who had file reviews last cycle with significant experience in what seemed like very relevant research, and they were told that it didn't count as vet experience for some schools.

i mean honestly, i don't think it really matters where you classify it as long as it appears somewhere. they'll read the descriptions and judge how they feel about your experience regardless of what you put it down as. it's not like they go thumbdown just because it's "work experience" rather than "vet experience. if you were very sparce on vet experience otherwise (like me) then it does help for it to be counted as vet experience. otherwise, don't sweat it.

Sorry I am kind of hijacking your post here, but I was also wondering about whether what research counted as. I've done some research involving a polymer delivery device for stem cell differentiation, but am currently looking to do research on some pharmacokinetic studies on small animals. I don't think there is a DVM on hand, so would this even count? The PI is a PhD, but the person I would work for is probably a grad student...what do you guys think?

I think while you do work under a vet and it technically is vet experience, you have to state what your duties were. So while it is vet experience, they are oviously going to weigh a technician higher then a kennel worker. However, you got your foot in the door at the clinic and I would just try to eventually make your way to a tech position if possible.

summerbailey said:

Sorry I am kind of hijacking your post here, but I was also wondering about whether what research counted as. I've done some research involving a polymer delivery device for stem cell differentiation, but am currently looking to do research on some pharmacokinetic studies on small animals. I don't think there is a DVM on hand, so would this even count? The PI is a PhD, but the person I would work for is probably a grad student...what do you guys think?

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If the research you've done involved animals, then put it down as vet experience. Even if the person you work with is a grad student, the PI is technically the person responsible for the work being done, so yes that counts. In your description, write down what exactly you did and do NOT put down what the grad student's work was and make it sound like it was yours. If it doesn't involve animals, then put it down as work experience.

and never ever put down experience that "you are currently looking to do" until you've done it. unless it's something like you're definitely going to be attending a conference that's coming up after the vmcas deadline.

Ive seen people on SDN tell others that if a PhD oversees the work whether or not animals were involved...it is vet experience.

Now, i dont really care either way what people put because my opinion is that that adcoms know which category things will go in no matter what.

When I applied I didn't know any of this, my research involved animals and my boss had a PhD so it should have gone under vet experience but I put it under work experience. I actually put my main research experience under "work" and then I calculated how many hours i directly spent with the animals (subtracted that from my research) and I put that under animal experience. hahaha so unorganized but either way, they figured it out!!

BlacKAT33 said:

Ive seen people on SDN tell others that if a PhD oversees the work whether or not animals were involved...it is vet experience.

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I don't think that's necessarily what I or anyone else has said. My position has always been if it is in any way applicable to medicine (including human!) or biomedical sciences and is overseen by a Ph.D. then it should be put under veterinary experience. It is the nature of the research that should be the determining factor to me, not whether you work with animals or what animals or whatever...

Also, I agree with your ultimate point that adcoms will classify things as they see fit. Another thing is that people get hung up on numbers of hours of experience because that's what is reported, but in my mind 500 hours of actually doing something should beat out 1000 hours of watching somebody else do it any day. This goes for research, vet clinic experience, or anything else. Not to put down people whose primary experiences were shadowing, but personally the first time I thought to get vet experience in a clinic and said I would "shadow" I just felt awkward and in the way and didn't feel like I learned anything because I was too concerned about being in the way and can't really focus when I'm not actively engaged. Working in a clinic was a completely different matter and I learned more my first day working at a clinic than I did in a whole week of shadowing. I didn't even put the shadowing on my application at all, haha...

I'm a bit torn on this. I have a decent chunk of hours working with a colony of birds. I worked with a graduate student, under the PI who is a PhD. Roughly 75% of my time was caring for the birds, the other 25% was working as a lab technician - processing samples, etc. I put it under animal experience because I don't see how it can count as "veterinary experience", even if my boss was a "health professional". Glad I found this thread though; I guess I'll be re-classifying my experiences.

that redhead said:

I'm a bit torn on this. I have a decent chunk of hours working with a colony of birds. I worked with a graduate student, under the PI who is a PhD. Roughly 75% of my time was caring for the birds, the other 25% was working as a lab technician - processing samples, etc. I put it under animal experience because I don't see how it can count as "veterinary experience", even if my boss was a "health professional". Glad I found this thread though; I guess I'll be re-classifying my experiences.

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You could theoretically divide the hours up. I did this with my animal shelter hours, because I worked in the spay/neuter clinic for some hours and the kennel/adoption counseling for a lot more hours. So even though it was all in the same place I divided it.

Caring for the colony definitely sounds more like animal experience, but how is processing samples animal experience?

jtom said:

I think while you do work under a vet and it technically is vet experience, you have to state what your duties were. So while it is vet experience, they are oviously going to weigh a technician higher then a kennel worker. However, you got your foot in the door at the clinic and I would just try to eventually make your way to a tech position if possible.

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I think that this "a is better than b" in experience is way overstated on this thread. Most adcoms seem to take a holistic approach to your application.

Do you think they really care if they get more vet techs vs kennel techs vs shadowing? If the experience makes sense in the overall presentation of the candidate then that is good enough.

Now if you have some diversity and have research, different types of animals, etc, that is clearly more interesting, but really, an application is viewed as a whole and what works for one person at one school will be completely different for different person at another (or even the same) school.

StartingoverVet said:

I think that this "a is better than b" in experience is way overstated on this thread. Most adcoms seem to take a holistic approach to your application.

Do you think they really care if they get more vet techs vs kennel techs vs shadowing? If the experience makes sense in the overall presentation of the candidate then that is good enough.

Now if you have some diversity and have research, different types of animals, etc, that is clearly more interesting, but really, an application is viewed as a whole and what works for one person at one school will be completely different for different person at another (or even the same) school.

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+ like 1000

I think the key is to try and fill out the experience section so that it is as honest as possible and conveys exactly what your role was for each experience. Adcoms will piece it together from there and assess your maturity, professional development, exposure to the field, etc... What you want to avoid is inappropriately inflating your hours or try to pull a fast one by wording things in such a way as to make your experiences more impressive than they really were. Both of those things will probably raise eyebrows IMO, and discredit not only your experiences but also your character.

Just the title of "vet tech," "shadow," "research," etc... doesn't say much at all without detailed descriptions. you can sit in a clinic or lab all you want, but never do much more than cleaning no matter what your job title is.