Setting up for Derm Pre-MSI

it's going to be pretty tough to get a dermatology residency position as an international grad. according to the most recent nrmp match outcomes (2009) the derm match rate for "independent applicants" was 31%. this lumps DO's, international grads, and reapplicants into a group. things you can do to maximize your chances are 1) score very high on step 1.. >250, 2) do multiple rotations in the states during your ms3 and 4 years, and 3) consider finishing a medicine or other residency in the US and then apply, vs. a research fellowship in the US and then apply.

Dral said:

A school's curriculum has a lot to do with how you do on Steps (I believe so anyway).

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I respectfully disagree. Selection bias.

I agree that if you try long (i.e., many years after med school) and hard enough you will probably eventually get a spot somewhere.

Here's my recipe for derm success for someone like you. These plans take a long time, but if you're committed, you will probably succeed.

Part 1 involves basically forgetting about derm. There's not much value (or ability) to 'network' in your position. That will come much later. Initially, this is what you should do.

1. Achieve AOA status (assuming they have it at your school) and graduate at or near the top of your class.
2. Study long and hard for both step 1 and step 2. You need to crush these tests.
3. Don't bother applying for derm as a 4th year student. Even if you achieve both of the above, your chances are really low. I guess you could apply and see how many interviews you get and then withdraw from the match if you don't get any. That would work too.

At this point (i.e., 4th med student) you've got two options:

4a. Obtain the most prestigious prelim year you can in either pediatrics or internal medicine. Do well that year so you can get good LORs. Then do 1-year derm research fellowships for every year after that and apply for derm each year until you get a spot.

4b. Obtain the most prestigious categorical residency program you can in either pediatrics or internal medicine and complete the whole residency. Preferably pick one that is attached to a large derm program. Also try to pick an institution that is large enough that funding for residents that have finished other residencies is not an issue (this information is sometimes difficult to obtain discreetly, but you can get an idea of this by seeing how many residents who have done other residencies have been accepted there in the prior 5 years)

Do well in your residency so you can get good LORs. After intern year, try to gradually get to know the derm faculty at that institution and get involved in research projects. Apply for derm as a 3rd resident. If you fail, then do one year research fellowships and reapply each year until you get a spot.

Most people do 4a, but I actually think 4b is better. People are afraid of 4b because it actually cuts you off from a lot of programs that can't afford to pay a PGY-4 salary (and subsequent annual increases) to an incoming derm resident. But I think this is outweighed by benefit to your resume that you get by doing well at a well-recognized peds or medicine program. 4b also gives you better back-up options, if you want to go a different direction (than derm) later on.

If you do all of this, I think that your chance of obtaining a derm spot 4-5 years after med school graduation is very high. That's a long time to wait, but if you're committed enough it should eventually happen.

Good luck.

agree with reno. this is not something that will be acheivable after 4 yrs of medschool. 100 to 1 shot at best. even with aoa and the like. you might be able to do it in 5 yrs = 4 yrs medschool + 1 yr amazing/productive research after MS2 or MS3 in huge dept with prestigious folks (maybe umich or nyu or upenn). you would have to publish 3+ papers and shoot for first author on all of them (JAAD, JID, or even NEJM/JAMA). then go back to that same prog in your ms4 year and kill your clinical rotation. all while being supremely likeable. i can't stress this enough. imagine you're trying to make sweet love to natalie portman. you need to woo her into swoonhood. and if it takes 8 years? who the f cares? it's natalie portman for chrissakes!

may your medical dreams come true

You are in an interesting situation. First off, when you get there I'd ask around your medical school to see where prior people have matched into Dermatology. Might help in planning away rotations.

I know this has been discussed before, but which programs are very good at taking their research fellows?

Look at the most recently updated match list, stickied above. Off the top of my head, I remember Utah took two research fellows from their department. There were others but I can't recall.

moinmoin said:

Look at the most recently updated match list, stickied above. Off the top of my head, I remember Utah took two research fellows from their department. There were others but I can't recall.

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Thanks!

SGU does not have AOA. They have IEA (Iota Epsilon Alpha) which is their version of IEA. There are only 3 chapters (a 4th is defunct I think), but it is the only international medical honor society that is truly international (in 3 different countries).

SGU had a match at the University of Toronto this year, but it's been quite some time since they've had a U.S. match direct from MS4 year.

Transfer out is the only viable option. PM me to find out the best plan of action for transfer. I've helped many other students transfer out of Carib schools and several will be applying for Derm this year/next year. If you're proactive and dedicated, you can make it happen.

FixItUp Chappie said:

Transfer out is the only viable option. PM me to find out the best plan of action for transfer. I've helped many other students transfer out of Carib schools and several will be applying for Derm this year/next year. If you're proactive and dedicated, you can make it happen.

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Your username is like totally fitting!

FixItUp Chappie said:

SGU does not have AOA. They have IEA (Iota Epsilon Alpha) which is their version of IEA. There are only 3 chapters (a 4th is defunct I think), but it is the only international medical honor society that is truly international (in 3 different countries).

SGU had a match at the University of Toronto this year, but it's been quite some time since they've had a U.S. match direct from MS4 year.

Transfer out is the only viable option. PM me to find out the best plan of action for transfer. I've helped many other students transfer out of Carib schools and several will be applying for Derm this year/next year. If you're proactive and dedicated, you can make it happen.

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I agree with this. I think you need to be attending an American school to really give yourself a shot. Would you consider re-applying? Maybe not even this year, but for the 2012-2013 school year? I know that sounds crazy, but the options presented by others above also involve 2-4 extra years, so it would be the same in the long run. Maybe find a derm research assistant job and buff your med school app that way. Just a thought.

N-Surge said:

Your username is like totally fitting!

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I spent a lot of time on it. It's also rather tongue-in-cheek for derm if you are familiar with the Dr. Seuss book it's taken from.

http://www.barnabasministry.com/quotes-sneeches.html

Also, Sylvester McMonkey McBean wouldn't fit.