Linehan article in NY Times

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I am very surprised that she was severely suicidal and borderline in young adulthood---even hospitalized multiple times.

I didn't get a good sense from the article about how she was able to get out of it and continue to a PhD program (that religious experience didn't seem to convince me), and a very productive life. Mental illness does not always continue from adolescence to adulthood so that may have been why she was able to get out of it.
 
It's great to see someone with BPD come out - hopefully it will bust some stigma. As a Borderline myself, starting medical school, I can only hope that I will be able to someday do a fraction of what she has done.
 
I had heard before that she was a Borderline, but I don't think she'd officially confirmed it, it was just a rumour that went around.

I can't find the papers now, but I remember reading that BPD tends to get somewhat better on its own as the person ages. The long term prognosis apparently isn't as bad as doctors used to think. I still agree that she pulled off an amazing turnaround though. What an incredible woman.
 
Wow! I really wasn't expecting that. I think it's especially interesting, given the issue of stigma in psychology. IMO, psychology is actually one of the most stigmatizing fields in terms of mental illness--maybe it's because we spend so long studying the detrimental effects of psychopathology or because we want to separate ourselves from our clients--I don't know, but it's definitely there--my abnormal psych professor made it very clear to us, many, many times, that *she* didn't have any issues, and I think part of that was definitely a stigma reaction. I wonder if Linehan would have been as successful as she was if this information was out there 20-30 years ago. It definitely gives a new point in the debate about "me-search", because Linehan's me-search was revolutionary. I don't know how much we can generalize from n=1, but it's *definitely* food for thought...
 
I've always wondering if she had a history, as she really was spot on with so many things. I too am curious about how she pulled it together and was able to be successful in the longterm.
From the article, it sounds like it was from her creation/implementation/internalization of fledgling DBT.
 
Wow! I really wasn't expecting that. I think it's especially interesting, given the issue of stigma in psychology. IMO, psychology is actually one of the most stigmatizing fields in terms of mental illness--maybe it's because we spend so long studying the detrimental effects of psychopathology or because we want to separate ourselves from our clients--I don't know, but it's definitely there--my abnormal psych professor made it very clear to us, many, many times, that *she* didn't have any issues, and I think part of that was definitely a stigma reaction. I wonder if Linehan would have been as successful as she was if this information was out there 20-30 years ago. It definitely gives a new point in the debate about "me-search", because Linehan's me-search was revolutionary. I don't know how much we can generalize from n=1, but it's *definitely* food for thought...

This cracks me up. We *all* have issues! It's not so far from one chair to the other, and I get pissed when clinicians pretend it is. Invariably, they are the ones who are the worst therapists, in my anecdotal experience.
 
This cracks me up. We *all* have issues! It's not so far from one chair to the other, and I get pissed when clinicians pretend it is. Invariably, they are the ones who are the worst therapists, in my anecdotal experience.

Everyone has issues of course. i agree that those clinicians who don't have any insight into their own problems/behaviors may not make the best therapists.

My experience with my collegues that are clinicians though is that there "issues" are fairly mainstream types of issues (some anxiety etc). Everyone i know that is practicing is emotionally stable even if they have issues. It is one thing to have issues though vs. having multiple suicidal attempts and being hospitalized and then treating the same population. I would assume that she is a huge anomaly and that her behavior was more of an "adolescent" stage since she was 17 at the time. BPD patients don't get diagnosed till after age 18 so she may have been one of those people with problems in adolescence that get better with time. Most people with this type of severe behavior would not be able to tolerate the distress of doing therapy with even a stable population so i assume she "outgrew" it by the time she was practicing. Just from my anectodal experience, the people who make good therapists are also pretty emotionally stable, self-aware, and having good coping skills. We don't know linehan's skills as a therapist, but she is a brilliant theorist, researcher, and clearly very resilient. I hope that the lay public doesn't interpret this article to mean that many psychologists have this type of severe mental illness history or that severely disturbed individuals can do therapy, but see it as hope that people can be successful with this type of history.

The therapy she developed is brilliant nonetheless and i hope her article will be inspiration to others!
 
It's great to see someone with BPD come out - hopefully it will bust some stigma. As a Borderline myself, starting medical school, I can only hope that I will be able to someday do a fraction of what she has done.

I have worked with borderline clients who are successful in their careers, although their interpersonal lives often suffer. There is also a range of severity with this diagnosis, like any other. It is not a death sentence. I have also seen BPD clients go through a year-two of DBT and no longer meet criteria for the diagnosis, sometimes they are still left with some of the traits, but people wouldn't know that they had BPD. I don't think it "goes away" on its own generally speaking with age without any type of therapy. You can look into DBT therapy or skills groups. It often takes hard work and coping skills to cope with this diagnosis.
 
Everyone has issues of course. i agree that those clinicians who don't have any insight into their own problems/behaviors may not make the best therapists.

My experience with my collegues that are clinicians though is that there "issues" are fairly mainstream types of issues (some anxiety etc). Everyone i know that is practicing is emotionally stable even if they have issues. It is one thing to have issues though vs. having multiple suicidal attempts and being hospitalized and then treating the same population. I would assume that she is a huge anomaly and that her behavior was more of an "adolescent" stage since she was 17 at the time. BPD patients don't get diagnosed till after age 18 so she may have been one of those people with problems in adolescence that get better with time. Most people with this type of severe behavior would not be able to tolerate the distress of doing therapy with even a stable population so i assume she "outgrew" it by the time she was practicing. Just from my anectodal experience, the people who make good therapists are also pretty emotionally stable, self-aware, and having good coping skills. We don't know linehan's skills as a therapist, but she is a brilliant theorist, researcher, and clearly very resilient. I hope that the lay public doesn't interpret this article to mean that many psychologists have this type of severe mental illness history or that severely disturbed individuals can do therapy, but see it as hope that people can be successful with this type of history.

The therapy she developed is brilliant nonetheless and i hope her article will be inspiration to others!

Yes, this is true -degree is certainly a big part of this. I was very struck by your prof who seemed determined not to be one of "those people" with psychological problems. I also agree about the emotionally stable, self-aware and coping skills aspect, and I think that one of the ways that happens is that the therapist has undegone their own course of psychotherapy. I myself would not want to see a therapist who had never had therapy her/himself.
 
I have worked with borderline clients who are successful in their careers, although their interpersonal lives often suffer. There is also a range of severity with this diagnosis, like any other. It is not a death sentence. I have also seen BPD clients go through a year-two of DBT and no longer meet criteria for the diagnosis, sometimes they are still left with some of the traits, but people wouldn't know that they had BPD. I don't think it "goes away" on its own generally speaking with age without any type of therapy. You can look into DBT therapy or skills groups. It often takes hard work and coping skills to cope with this diagnosis.

Yeah, there's evidence that impulsivity in general decreases with age, which accounts for some of the behavioral components of BPD diminishing over time (e.g., NSSI, suicide attempts); however, this is obviously not universal and as far as I know, there is no evidence that the affective components diminish with age. The clearest path towards success with BPD thus far really does appear to be through DBT (very much looking forward to emerging dismantling studies testing the relative utility of specific components of the treatment).
 
There already has been a component analysis of DBT. IIRC, results indicated it was the 24/7 availability, consultation team, and skills training that were really beneficial.

Anyway, that is a very interesting story. I had heard rumors that Linehan had BPD herself but they were unconfirmed until now. No wonder she always emphasizes how much the patient is suffering. I always thought that she seemed to really understand the nuances of BPD. For instance, a lot of the Skills Manual refers to detailed behaviors and patterns that I don't think you could just learn from research.

I've also heard that BPD just tends to "burn out" with age.
 
There already has been a component analysis of DBT. IIRC, results indicated it was the 24/7 availability, consultation team, and skills training that were really beneficial.

I can't help but see the irony in these findings, as I've seen a plethora of providers who identify with a DBT orientation, but the vast majority don't actually adhere to the (what I consider) strict requirements of DBT. No 24/7 support/coverage, lack of a true consultation team, and often an almagamation of skills training that functions as "DBT-lite". It's a pet peeve of mine, almost as annoying as the "ecclectic" clinicians who lack an overarching framework that informs their practice.

As for the article...I have some concern that people will see the MeSearch and generalize that to all psychologists.
 
For instance, a lot of the Skills Manual refers to detailed behaviors and patterns that I don't think you could just learn from research.

Although there is potential that "me-search" could be problematic for some psychology students, this is why it can be valuable. Would BPD still be considered untreatable today if Linehan hadn't decided to fight the stigma and do her own "me-search" and damn anyone who tries to stop her? Thank God she did.

I consider her disclosure to be wonderfully courageous. Just like I think Steve Hayes is awesome for disclosing his panic dx history. It is a real shame that mental health stigma is so prevalent in the field. It makes sense that you don't want to disclose this kind of history in a personal statement or in certain situations just for boundary reasons, but to close colleagues? A well-known mentor? We are perpetuating the problem with these fears.
 
T4C: We have a lot of that around here and it drives me crazy, too!
 
This cracks me up. We *all* have issues! It's not so far from one chair to the other, and I get pissed when clinicians pretend it is. Invariably, they are the ones who are the worst therapists, in my anecdotal experience.

Ironically, as I came to know her after class as a mentor, I learned she did definitely have her own issues, although they sounded pretty sub-clinical (from what little I know). But then again, she was pretty uncomfortable in her own skin, to be honest (she was a naturally shy/introverted person who really wanted to be extroverted), so her attitude, in additional context, sort of makes sense.
 
I can't help but see the irony in these findings, as I've seen a plethora of providers who identify with a DBT orientation, but the vast majority don't actually adhere to the (what I consider) strict requirements of DBT. No 24/7 support/coverage, lack of a true consultation team, and often an almagamation of skills training that functions as "DBT-lite". It's a pet peeve of mine, almost as annoying as the "ecclectic" clinicians who lack an overarching framework that informs their practice.

As for the article...I have some concern that people will see the MeSearch and generalize that to all psychologists.

I love the term DBT-lite and MeSearch!!!! Haven't heard of these before....they are perfect.
 
I can't help but feel many people are sort of downplaying Linehan's issues as being only an "adolescent thing" when she stated she had suicidual thoughts after coming to UWashington (in her 30's) and attempted suicide at least once in her 20's (granted, late adolescence, but not 17). Not that I mean to up-play them --Linehan is clearly quite functional and in all likelihood pretty stable now--but it seems like people are almost acting against the DBT idea of acceptance--Linehan wasn't really "borderline" or she wasn't "one of *those* borderlines"--which seems like it sort of runs counter to her stated purpose of "coming out" and saying that, yes, she's "one of them", to quote the article. JMHO, of course.
 
I think it's more people trying to figure out how she was able to get through a very stressful career trajectory, which the article doesn't really elaborate on.
 
I think it's more people trying to figure out how she was able to get through a very stressful career trajectory, which the article doesn't really elaborate on.

It wouldn't surprise me if she elaborates more on this elsewhere. She made some very interesting contributions to ABCT's women trailblazers panel a couple of years ago and I'd imagine she'd have more to say about "making it" in the field now that she's come public about BPD.
 
I can't help but feel many people are sort of downplaying Linehan's issues as being only an "adolescent thing" when she stated she had suicidual thoughts after coming to UWashington (in her 30's) and attempted suicide at least once in her 20's (granted, late adolescence, but not 17). Not that I mean to up-play them --Linehan is clearly quite functional and in all likelihood pretty stable now--but it seems like people are almost acting against the DBT idea of acceptance--Linehan wasn't really "borderline" or she wasn't "one of *those* borderlines"--which seems like it sort of runs counter to her stated purpose of "coming out" and saying that, yes, she's "one of them", to quote the article. JMHO, of course.

The article suggests that her severe suicidal behavior and self-harm was at age 17, and then she was released from the hospital and attempted suicide one last time around age 20. Her religious transformational experience occured at age 21 in 1967 (prior to grad school) and then things improved from there, according to her account. I am not saying that she wasn't borderline or anything, but one hypothesis is that she outgrew this dysfunctional behavior as an adult. Research shows that there is not alot of continuity in mental illness from adolescence to adulthood, and someone whose last suicide attempt was at age 20 wouldn't be considered BPD unless they had met other criteria as well because of how young she was at the time. This is just a hypothesis. Having suicidal thoughts later on at times happens to many people with depression and is fairly common. I am even very reluctant to diagnose a 20-year-old with BPD to begin with because this is still not fully developed adults. The truth is we don't really know how much she suffered after age 20 and whether the behavior continued--we just know that the attempts and hospitalizations stopped at a young age, which suggests to me that age was a huge factor and the acceptance that came with that.
 
The article suggests that her severe suicidal behavior and self-harm was at age 17, and then she was released from the hospital and attempted suicide one last time around age 20. Her religious transformational experience occured at age 21 in 1967 (prior to grad school) and then things improved from there, according to her account. I am not saying that she wasn't borderline or anything, but one hypothesis is that she outgrew this dysfunctional behavior as an adult. Research shows that there is not alot of continuity in mental illness from adolescence to adulthood, and someone whose last suicide attempt was at age 20 wouldn't be considered BPD unless they had met other criteria as well because of how young she was at the time. This is just a hypothesis. Having suicidal thoughts later on at times happens to many people with depression and is fairly common. I am even very reluctant to diagnose a 20-year-old with BPD to begin with because this is still not fully developed adults. The truth is we don't really know how much she suffered after age 20 and whether the behavior continued--we just know that the attempts and hospitalizations stopped at a young age, which suggests to me that age was a huge factor and the acceptance that came with that.

From the article:

"It was 1967, several years after she left the institute as a desperate 20-year-old whom doctors gave little chance of surviving outside the hospital. Survive she did, barely: there was at least one suicide attempt in Tulsa, when she first arrived home; and another episode after she moved to a Y.M.C.A. in Chicago to start over."

So, Linehan was 24 at the time of the religious incident and was older than 20 (although we don't know how old), and we know she had frequent suiciual thoughts in her 30's as well. Suicidal ideation is a lot less severe than actual attempts, but it's still serious--and hopefully not modal or "not serious" behavior/symptomology. I'm not denying that Linehan's issues were far worse when she was younger, but she's pretty open about not being "cured" of her BPD even by that religious experience, just that the self-harm/SA stopped.

Think of it this way--if someone came to SDN or a client/student/friend came to you and said they had been hospitalized for 2-3 years when they were 17-20, had an extensive history of self-harm and suicide attempts, and while they didn't have any recent SI/SA, they still had fairly frequent suicidual thoughts and some emotional liability, would you (generic you) be supportive of their plan to be a clinical psychologist? I'm guessing most would (and rightfully so) have serious concerns about that plan, even with no recent history of SI/SA.

...That's what makes this all so fascinating to me--that someone with Linehan's profile would be someone most people would have serious qualms about being a clinical psychologist and yet Linehan is incredibly successful and beyond that, revolutionized the way we treat suicidality, BPD, and other disorders. Even if she's primarily a researcher, I had a couple of professors who said that if you really wanted to see DBT practiced well, to watch tapes of Linehan practicing it, so she has notable skills as a clinician as well. Of course, she's certainly not the modal outcome for people with BPD (or even for clinical psychologists in general), and I'm not saying this means that we should purposefully recruit people with BPD to enter the field en masse, but it does kind of give me pause to think about how we view psychopathology and mental health stigma in this field.

I think it's more people trying to figure out how she was able to get through a very stressful career trajectory, which the article doesn't really elaborate on.

I would really love to hear more about this .

(Of course, none of my mentors apparently found psychology grad school to be stressful compared to undergrad, so maybe I'm in the minority here in finding that is? 😕)

As for the article...I have some concern that people will see the MeSearch and generalize that to all psychologists.

I'm of two minds about "me-search." I've always found it kind of ironic that "in-group" researchers are heavily encouraged in multicultural research, but in other areas, me-search is considered taboo. I suppose my research area could be considered to be in between the two; I research people with disabilities--primarily physical and sensory disabilities. I conceptualize people with disabilities as much more of a cultural/social group than a pathology group, although I've received some criticism from ethnic multicultural researchers for saying that before, so have at me, if you want. 😉 ). I do think it can provide some degree of insight and credible to your participants, but I really think people need to be very, very careful about generalizing their thoughts and experiences to everyone in that group, and I've known some multicultural psych researchers who didn't do a good of job of recognizing that. Having been both an "in-group" and an "out-group" researcher, I honestly think there are advantages and disadvantages to both and that a team that blends "out group" and "in group" researchers and/or consultants/partners might be ideal.
 
The DBT-lite idea is definitely concerning. I've had both experiences. The dismantling studies I'd like to see would involve particular skills modules (e.g., do all contribute equally well, are those contributions moderated by particular patient characteristics). My research these days is primarily focused on emotion dysregulation in suicide and the results, including BPD samples, aren't necessarily what you'd expect, so I'm intrigued by the potential for more nuanced results depending upon specific aspects of patients. Going a step further, I'd like to see studies that provide more detailed information on the constructs covered in the modules (e.g., provide outcomes on the DERS, the distress tolerance scale, etc...). I love DBT - don't mean this to sound like skepticism - just interested in seeing more results.

Also, didn't really say this earlier, but I really do think this is a courageous move by Linehan and think it can serve as a great treatment motivator for ambivalent patients who might struggle with the stigma of the diagnosis.
 
From the article:

"So, Linehan was 24 at the time of the religious incident and was older than 20 (although we don't know how old), and we know she had frequent suiciual thoughts in her 30's as well. Suicidal ideation is a lot less severe than actual attempts, but it's still serious--and hopefully not modal or "not serious" behavior/symptomology. I'm not denying that Linehan's issues were far worse when she was younger, but she's pretty open about not being "cured" of her BPD even by that religious experience, just that the self-harm/SA stopped.

Think of it this way--if someone came to SDN or a client/student/friend came to you and said they had been hospitalized for 2-3 years when they were 17-20, had an extensive history of self-harm and suicide attempts, and while they didn't have any recent SI/SA, they still had fairly frequent suicidual thoughts and some emotional liability, would you (generic you) be supportive of their plan to be a clinical psychologist? I'm guessing most would (and rightfully so) have serious concerns about that plan, even with no recent history of SI/SA.

...That's what makes this all so fascinating to me--that someone with Linehan's profile would be someone most people would have serious qualms about being a clinical psychologist and yet Linehan is incredibly successful and beyond that, revolutionized the way we treat suicidality, BPD, and other disorders. Even if she's primarily a researcher, I had a couple of professors who said that if you really wanted to see DBT practiced well, to watch tapes of Linehan practicing it, so she has notable skills as a clinician as well. Of course, she's certainly not the modal outcome for people with BPD (or even for clinical psychologists in general), and I'm not saying this means that we should purposefully recruit people with BPD to enter the field en masse, but it does kind of give me pause to think about how we view psychopathology and mental health stigma in this field.

Yes, she was 24 at the time of the religious experience that transformed her. I just looked at her CV online (http://faculty.washington.edu/linehan/). She started grad school at age 25 from 1968-1971 (got both her MA and PHD). I agree that someone with her history would be discouraged from pursuing a PhD in clinical psychology these days for sure. Again, if she had full fledged DBT, i doubt she would be able to regulate her emotions and behaviors around suicidal clients so this remains a mystery to me. The only thing I can think of is that she already had years of therapy and did not have BPD by the time she was seeing clients. Otherwise, how would she be able to work with severly suicidal people and tolerate all the distress? I think there are high functioning people in grad school that have borderline traits that can do very well but not with this type of severity.

(Of course, none of my mentors apparently found psychology grad school to be stressful compared to undergrad, so maybe I'm in the minority here in finding that is? 😕)

That's because psychology PhD used to be 3 years long as opposed to 6,000 years. Linehan got her MA and PHD in 3 years! There was no internship crisis or post-doc crisis. it was much easier to get licensed (many states also didn't have the post-doc year). Pay used to be higher. People who got their degrees even 10 years ago don't know what the field is like now. My mentors only had to apply to like 2-3 internship programs and there wasn't a formal process. When they graduated, there was like less than 1,000 students competing for jobs, not 10,000 new Phd/PsyD graduates that can't find jobs.
 
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I can't help but feel many people are sort of downplaying Linehan's issues as being only an "adolescent thing"...Not that I mean to up-play them --Linehan is clearly quite functional and in all likelihood pretty stable now--but it seems like people are almost acting against the DBT idea of acceptance--Linehan wasn't really "borderline" or she wasn't "one of *those* borderlines"--which seems like it sort of runs counter to her stated purpose of "coming out" and saying that, yes, she's "one of them", to quote the article. JMHO, of course.

Nice catch. This is the typical response to folks who recover and go on to achieve success. So much easier to simply reject the idea of recovery...
 
Nice catch. This is the typical response to folks who recover and go on to achieve success. So much easier to simply reject the idea of recovery...

To me the description she gives of being hospitalized would put her among those serious cases and she has to know it. That part is plain as day in the article.
 
Nice catch. This is the typical response to folks who recover and go on to achieve success. So much easier to simply reject the idea of recovery...

In one of her talks, she has said that she spent years studying in a monastary and taking classes from monks. This is how she developed DBT---but i'm sure it helped her find stability as well. She did spend years studying buddhism very intensively.
 
I had heard before that she was a Borderline, but I don't think she'd officially confirmed it, it was just a rumour that went around.

I can't find the papers now, but I remember reading that BPD tends to get somewhat better on its own as the person ages. The long term prognosis apparently isn't as bad as doctors used to think. I still agree that she pulled off an amazing turnaround though. What an incredible woman.

I would be interested in the papers you're talking about -- I don't know the numbers, but based on what I've seen, there are borderline patients in their 60's and 70's who are just as miserable and chronically suicidal as teenagers with borderline PD. The severity, for these patients, doesn't seem to have decreased over time. (Very anecdotal evidence, I know.)
 
I would be interested in the papers you're talking about -- I don't know the numbers, but based on what I've seen, there are borderline patients in their 60's and 70's who are just as miserable and chronically suicidal as teenagers with borderline PD. The severity, for these patients, doesn't seem to have decreased over time. (Very anecdotal evidence, I know.)

I think this may be the paper:

Zanarini, M.C., Frankenburg, F.R., Reich, D.B., Silk, K.R., Hudson, J.I., McSweeney, L.B. (2007). The subsyndromal phenomenology of borderline personality disorder: a 10-year follow-up study. Am J Psychiatry, 164, 929-935.

Link to free PDF on Am J Psychiatry web site.
 
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