As a non-trad med student, what was the most difficult thing?

I'm very intererested in any responses to this thread.

Giving up my life. Missing my husband, going to movies, dinner with friends, all the things normal social grown ups get to do. I'm just a first year but am still getting over the huge and unanticipated amount of resentment I have towards the way studying as taken over everything. Granted, I go to a school that has exams every 2 weeks and a,b,c grading, which might make a difference.

As a significantly older student, it's also been a big academic challenge. This past set of exams I am finally at or above the class average but it's been very uphill and I'm still struggling just to pass biochem. Going back to school to do prereqs was a walk in the park compared to the workload of actually being in med school. Everyone says it, no one is really prepared, but a 22 year old cell bio major is frankly much better prepared than a 30 something ex humanities student, even one who aced premed classes. Such is life....

For me the most difficult thing was going from being a senior grad student and chem instructor with adult responsibility and a skillset hard-acquired over a decade, back to being a freshman again. It was a culture shock, and it meant re-creating a whole new sense of identity. The same thing happened to some extent upon starting residency, but it wasn't quite as bad. I think it's partly because I knew what to expect and partly because being a resident is more like having a job than it is like being a student.

QofQuimica said:

For me the most difficult thing was going from being a senior grad student and chem instructor with adult responsibility and a skillset hard-acquired over a decade, back to being a freshman again. It was a culture shock, and it meant re-creating a whole new sense of identity. The same thing happened to some extent upon starting residency, but it wasn't quite as bad. I think it's partly because I knew what to expect and partly because being a resident is more like having a job than it is like being a student.

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From my stage in the game. Identity shift is something I also struggled with. Mightily. I've never done anything that was so encompassing. Where you become what you're doing so completely. By imperative. No exceptions. Once I resigned to that process. It became easy going.

The other thing is I hate tense, competitive scenarios. And guess what...? I just had to get used to it. And work on it from my own perceptive control. Because it doesn't change. Not at any visible point on the horizon at my stage.

Constant low grade stress. For me its not usually enough to make me crazy, but it is enough to make me put a lot on the back burner- like cooking, cleaning, errands sometimes- and then that comes back to haunt you, such as this morning when we had to rush out @ 5a to buy forgotten snacks for my daughter's snack day! I just don't like feeling constantly behind.

The guilt. I made my family homeless for a period of time, ruined our finances, decimated our retirement account, and now saddled us with a house we have no intention of ever moving back to in a horrible housing market. The guilt is huge and is by far the most stressful part of the journey.

But as I near the end of the long haul and start to look for a paying job as a physician I see how much better our lives will be for our struggles and sacrifices. And the support and pride from my husband and children is priceless.

I definitely feel the guilt. We (wife and I) have obviously had to tighten our belts and I hate seeing her have to cut back on things just so I can do what I want to. It makes me feel so selfish sometimes. I just try to keep an eye to the future and realize a temporary setback will be a lifelong improvement.

As far as school work, I think it's a blessing and a curse. Most of these kids are smart enough that they didn't have to study during undergrad and they're not used to having to work/study/be productive for more than a couple hours a day. Having been in the real world for a while I have no issues putting in a full day of studying and can maintain my focus the entire time. On the other hand, it would be nice to have some chem/o-chem fresh in my mind!

QofQuimica said:

For me the most difficult thing was going from being a senior grad student and chem instructor with adult responsibility and a skillset hard-acquired over a decade, back to being a freshman again. It was a culture shock, and it meant re-creating a whole new sense of identity. The same thing happened to some extent upon starting residency, but it wasn't quite as bad. I think it's partly because I knew what to expect and partly because being a resident is more like having a job than it is like being a student.

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This, after having taught organic chemistry to all of those premeds who each year looked ever so much younger than me, I'm not looking forward to. =)

having to take time away from my kids so I can study. However I ensured that whatever time I did have it was quality time. We had dinner every night as a family and each child was given our (whole family) attention when they told us about their day at school. Each Sunday was Daddy's diner where they were the waitresses and I was the short order cook. Each girl (I have 4 of them now, 10,7,5,1 but at the time, just 3) was given their own daddy and me time where we went for a coffee/warm milk at the diner or starbucks and talked about what ever they wanted to.

My wife and I spent time in the backyard with some wine and talked. We had a babysitter every now and then but rather than going to dinner we went out for dessert which is much cheaper or we would actually do lunch since the cost was less also. And no need to babysitters because the kids were already in school.

It was hard, but doable.

Thanks for this thread - it's been really helpful, especially because I have a family.

Patchy said:

I consider this very implausible. I had to study plenty for most courses in middle school and high school. Students who said they didn't have to study, even back then, were either saying untrue statements or getting lower than a B. I got some Ds in fourth grade and have been a studying student since fifth grade. I have read biographies of people who did things like won the Nobel prize, and they all had to study for undergraduate courses and high school, and probably before that also. Physicians are not dumb, but I doubt they are that much smarter than me and other known studiers.

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Patchy - I definitely studied for maybe one or two tests in high school, and about half in undergrad. I tend to remember details really easily and have an eidetic memory (in the true sense that I can visualize the item I want to recall even out of its original context). It's not perfect and it does fail me sometimes, but that's what I have. I'm not the smartest person - I was average intelligence for my top-50 school. But don't knock people just because it's not how you learn. Everyone is different, and pulling people down will not help you up.

username123 said:

Patchy - I definitely studied for maybe one or two tests in high school, and about half in undergrad. I tend to remember details really easily and have an eidetic memory (in the true sense that I can visualize the item I want to recall even out of its original context). It's not perfect and it does fail me sometimes, but that's what I have. I'm not the smartest person - I was average intelligence for my top-50 school. But don't knock people just because it's not how you learn. Everyone is different, and pulling people down will not help you up.

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I agree with this. I never studied in highschool, and a very select few instances aside, I never studied in undergrad either. I have a memory that allows me to recall things in minute detail. Some of this may be related to me having synesthesia and organizing things in colors (I didn't know there was a word for it until a few years ago!). Because of this, attending lectures and understanding overarching concepts was enough for me to do well. This is not to say that I didn't do better on the rare occasion when I did study -- subjectively I think I did -- but I only studied when I didn't feel I understood what was being covered very well.

Unfortunately, because I never learned how, step 1 for me has been learning how to study, now that I absolutely need to achieve a 4.0 in my post-bacc. I'm also not arrogant enough to think that I could do well in med school without knowing how to study.

tl;dr: It may not be quite as uncommon as you may think, Patchy

Patchy said:

I consider this very implausible. I had to study plenty for most courses in middle school and high school. Students who said they didn't have to study, even back then, were either saying untrue statements or getting lower than a B. I got some Ds in fourth grade and have been a studying student since fifth grade. I have read biographies of people who did things like won the Nobel prize, and they all had to study for undergraduate courses and high school, and probably before that also. Physicians are not dumb, but I doubt they are that much smarter than me and other known studiers.

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Who studied in high school much less 4th and 5th grade?

Patchy said:

I consider this very implausible. I had to study plenty for most courses in middle school and high school. Students who said they didn't have to study, even back then, were either saying untrue statements or getting lower than a B. I got some Ds in fourth grade and have been a studying student since fifth grade. I have read biographies of people who did things like won the Nobel prize, and they all had to study for undergraduate courses and high school, and probably before that also. Physicians are not dumb, but I doubt they are that much smarter than me and other known studiers.

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Sorry, but this just isn't true. I have rarely had to study for any college course, and I never studied for anything outside of Spanish and a couple science courses in high school. I am certainly not bragging, because my abilities are nothing I worked for, just a God-given (or randomly genetically bestowed, if you prefer) gift, and I have no motivation to lie as this is an anonymous internet forum. I am sure in your experience, regular studying was the only way to succeed, and I am positive in medical school I will have to regularly study myself, but saying no one gets a B or better without regular studying, from middle school on, is pretty ridiculous.

Academically: going back to being a full-time student. Needing to learn and retain for exams, without the crutch of being able to look something up if I forget.

Socially: feeling like I'm not able to connect with others as much as I'd like to. It's probably more just in my head, and it's probably due to my introverted tendencies; perhaps if you asked one of my classmates they wouldn't agree with my perception at all (especially because I don't look older than they are), but it's a feeling I can't shake, regardless.

mauberley said:

Academically: going back to being a full-time student. Needing to learn and retain for exams, without the crutch of being able to look something up if I forget.

Socially: feeling like I'm not able to connect with others as much as I'd like to. It's probably more just in my head, and it's probably due to my introverted tendencies; perhaps if you asked one of my classmates they wouldn't agree with my perception at all (especially because I don't look older than they are), but it's a feeling I can't shake, regardless.

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I feel like this will be me. I'm extroverted in some situations, but I shrink back to my introverted self when I feel stressed. I also won't look much older than the 22 year olds (as a teacher, I was constantly mistaken for one of the high school kids ), but I'll still feel weird having held a really career job for awhile before getting my post-bach.

eHombre said:

This, after having taught organic chemistry to all of those premeds who each year looked ever so much younger than me, I'm not looking forward to. =)

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You'll get used to it.

As for studying requirements, everyone is different, and everyone's goals are different. I studied a lot in high school, but that's because I was taking a full load of AP classes every semester during the last two years, and I wanted to make straight As plus score well enough on the AP tests to get college credit. When I finished HS, I was class valedictorian with a 4.0 GPA, and I had earned enough credits that I could have been done with the rest of college in less than two years. It wasn't ultimately necessary, because I wound up getting fully scholarshipped for four years to a college that didn't even use credit hours. But initially when I thought I'd have to pay out of pocket for school, my goal was to get as much college credit as humanly possible before finishing HS since it was free. And that meant I studied a lot more than many of my classmates did.

If you want to apply that logic to med school, how much you have to study will depend in part on your study skills, in part on your innate ability to memorize, in part on your school's grading system, and in part on your goals. Some schools are P/F the first two years, while others give grades and use curves such that only a limited number of As are given out. Some people are fine with just passing and would be happy doing primary care residencies in a rural area, while others want to do residencies in highly competitive specialties in the popular coastal cities. Some people memorize easily and study efficiently from the getgo, while others take a lot longer to get into their groove. Obviously you will have to work a lot harder if you want to be the top of your class, especially if you don't come in already having a strong academic background complete with good study skills.

Those of you who haven't ever learned to study will either learn how to study during med school, or else you'll give up and drop out/flunk out. People leaving med school for academic reasons isn't all that common, but it happens sometimes. Hey, med school ain't for everyone.

I'm not married and don't have kids, but I think it will be hard to give up my house and freedom to come and go as I please. It will definitely be worth it in the end.

The financial burden was by far the hardest part for me. I have a really supportive spouse and parents, who have done a great job putting up with my "it's all about me" lifestyle for the past 4 years.

In (an uneven) exchange, I have given up a lot of the control over my household and childrearing. My son watches more spongebob and eats more fast food than I would allow if I were home every night for dinner. That's hard too, in a different way.

The social thing, honestly, was not a big deal for us. We weren't exactly butterflies before, because of our schedules, and now we're just downright reclusive, but no one really minds Also, my DH's job is such that he works weekends and holidays a lot, so my family is not put out by celebrating birthdays, etc when possible.

Studying was REALLY hard at first, when the material was so dry, but I actually enjoyed it after the first semester. It makes me a little sad to think I won't be able to sit around for a week and read to learn anymore.

The worst days of med school:
1) step 1 exam
2) first anatomy exam (I suck at memorizing laundry lists of terms, and don't care what the names of every extensor in the hand are)
3) step 2 CS and CK -not because they are difficult, but because I have issues with being locked in to any space for longer than an hour. I don't care much for long flights, either.
4) First day of any new rotation -because I hate not knowing what is going on, and you inevitably feel that way on the first day (or 2 or 4) of any new rotation.

montessori2md said:

The worst days of med school:
1) step 1 exam
2) first anatomy exam (I suck at memorizing laundry lists of terms, and don't care what the names of every extensor in the hand are)
3) step 2 CS and CK -not because they are difficult, but because I have issues with being locked in to any space for longer than an hour. I don't care much for long flights, either.
4) First day of any new rotation -because I hate not knowing what is going on, and you inevitably feel that way on the first day (or 2 or 4) of any new rotation.

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Definitely agree with #1,3,4. Step studying was some of the worst time of my life, and I'm very introverted (matching into path - hopefully!), so the start of each new rotation was torture...as was each time I had to knock on an exam room door and greet a new patient. I'd overcome it, but I could never quite get rid of that knot in my stomach.

Otherwise, I'd say personal health has been the biggest issue for me. I'm not so young anymore, have had some health problems crop up during school, and it has made it hard to find the energy I need sometimes.

Having said all this, I'll repeat what I've posted before: I love med school, my marriage is good, my family is good, I'm happier than anybody ought to be, and I'd definitely do it again.

I love this thread, it's a great reality check. Would any of you also be willing to share the best part for you?

QofQuimica said:

For me the most difficult thing was going from being a senior grad student and chem instructor with adult responsibility and a skillset hard-acquired over a decade, back to being a freshman again. It was a culture shock, and it meant re-creating a whole new sense of identity. The same thing happened to some extent upon starting residency, but it wasn't quite as bad. I think it's partly because I knew what to expect and partly because being a resident is more like having a job than it is like being a student.

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Agree. Sitting in class and finding 18 and 19 year olds by my elbows makes for a consistently unrelateable experience. Probably even more disheartening is that professors speak in "relateable" terms...which I see as speaking down and trying to connect with freshman students. So being an adult but not being treated as one, or the idea that you work a full time job and don't have mommy and daddy footing the bills - hard to connect.

Also though, it's essentially two full-time jobs for many of us on here to go to school and support ourselves/family. Having done it for nearly 3 years straight and another 3 semesters to go, I'd have to say it wears on you and missing fun evening activities and hesitancy to have a relationship are both disheartening in the long term.

ShyRem said:

The guilt.

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Ditto for me. I was talking with my wife last weekend about how the hardest thing for me is the perpetual state of guilt I carry around. When I'm at the hospital I feel guilty that I'm not at home helping out with the kids and about the burdens my wife shoulders alone. When I'm at home I feel guilty that I'm not studying or preparing myself better for my patients. People who pursue medicine tend to be ambitious and are used to expecting a certain level of excellence from themselves. And it's been difficult to often carry around this feeling that I'm shoddy at everything (being a father, husband, and medical student) because I don't have the time to give myself to any one endeavor to do it proper justice. I try to make my peace with it and do my best to realize that nothing will ever be perfect. Nothing will ever be 100% but I can at least ensure that it's never 0%.

For those of you reading this thread with spouses and/or kids:

As an MS2, wife, and mom of 3 kids under 5, the hardest part for me has been finding adequate study time (during which I'm not fighting sleep). I've managed to ward off guilt by keeping the husband and kids at the top of my priority list and trying to limit my study time to when I'm on campus (generally 8-4) or at night after the kids have gone to bed. I do normal mom stuff in the evenings: I cook dinner, do laundry, play with the kids, chat with the husband. It works as far as family stability and life balance go, but I've had to get over the strong urge to be jealous of classmates who get to study whenever and wherever they want. Do my grades suffer? Yes, but they are still good and I'm still learning what I need to. Well worth it, in my opinion.

The money situation is tough too. I had a good career before med school and it has been hard (perhaps more so for my husband than for me) to adjust to having very little disposeable income + the addition of new debt every year.

The key is to remember to preserve your relationships - your family will be around well after you are done with school/residency, and it's easier to fix problems as they arise rather than save a failed relationship once it's too late. Life happens, and it doesn't care that you are a medical student. Also, this is only temporary. You will not be a poor, busy student for the rest of your life!

Good luck, Non-trad premeds! If I can do it, you can do it.

Good for you, you're very inspiring and best of luck on your goals.
Best point - it's only temporary. Might be long while you're going through it, but it's going to move on still
There was an immigrant man who had worked and slaved and put himself through med school - a real anomaly. Someone asked him - "it's it hard? - How do you do it? Isn't being a doctor tough"
He replied "It's not as hard as picking oranges in the hot sun all day."..
Good perspective.

FutureDoc2831 said:

For those of you reading this thread with spouses and/or kids:

As an MS2, wife, and mom of 3 kids under 5, the hardest part for me has been finding adequate study time (during which I'm not fighting sleep). I've managed to ward off guilt by keeping the husband and kids at the top of my priority list and trying to limit my study time to when I'm on campus (generally 8-4) or at night after the kids have gone to bed. I do normal mom stuff in the evenings: I cook dinner, do laundry, play with the kids, chat with the husband. It works as far as family stability and life balance go, but I've had to get over the strong urge to be jealous of classmates who get to study whenever and wherever they want. Do my grades suffer? Yes, but they are still good and I'm still learning what I need to. Well worth it, in my opinion.

The money situation is tough too. I had a good career before med school and it has been hard (perhaps more so for my husband than for me) to adjust to having very little disposeable income + the addition of new debt every year.

The key is to remember to preserve your relationships - your family will be around well after you are done with school/residency, and it's easier to fix problems as they arise rather than save a failed relationship once it's too late. Life happens, and it doesn't care that you are a medical student. Also, this is only temporary. You will not be a poor, busy student for the rest of your life!

Good luck, Non-trad premeds! If I can do it, you can do it.

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As a single guy (aka zero expenses), probably the change in standard of living. Going from buying what you want, whenever you want, as much as you want to sticking to a strict budget. Going from eating out every night, to eating out once a month. Going from elite status on airlines/hotels to never traveling anywhere.

It's a big transition once you've lived the high live to go back to being a poor college student.

I used to be a cop. Beginning that was much like this... It was interesting, demanding, and it made me want to devote myself. Fortunately for me, but not so much for my academic performance, I am a few years older and much more experienced.

For me two things have been overwhelming: 1) The sheer onslaught of egregious, relentless, painfully forceful, asinine, belligerent information over load. I mean seriously.... when they say you can't know it until you've been there, you really can't. 2) Balancing time with studies and life. I am the type of person, as we all are, that wants to excel. I feel like originally I was demanding too much of myself. Now I have decided to do my best as a whole, which includes being a good husband as well.

I think I have it easier than most.

It is challenging, but since I don't have a family, I have a little more $, a little more maturity, and the realization that the grass isn't greener.

artsydoc said:

... Everyone says it, no one is really prepared, but a 22 year old cell bio major is frankly much better prepared than a 30 something ex humanities student, even one who aced premed classes. Such is life....

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not really true. There will be older humanities majors mixed in throughout the ranks of the class and younger science majors mixed throughout the class. At the school I attended the couple of folks who ended up having to retake a year and the few who dropped out as being not ready for med school were all younger science majors. The older non-science major nontrads hung in there and many are now in very competitive specialties. Also bear in mind that the clinical years matter more than the classroom years for a lot of things, so if you can stay above water those first two years and do okay on Step I, the fact that biochem is not your forte will be of limited career impact.

I agree with a lot of what is said in this thread. The hardest things for nontrads will be giving up time you previously were spending with family, friends, finding balance, and giving up an income to instead go back into debt. While I wouldn't say most don't study in college, I think it's fair to say that very few folks put the kind of time into courses in college that you need to in med school, so it is culture shock for everyone. The quantity of material is simply much greater in med school, and there's no realistic way to cram and pass the way you did in college, so you have to be committed to making med school studying an every day ordeal. Basically if you approach the first two years of med school like an intense 60+ hour per week job, you probably do fine. As for the clinical years, depending on the school you can expect to be working Lot of overnights and weekends and as much as 80 or more hours per week on some rotations, so your outside life will take a hit accordingly. But that's helpful in a way because otherwise intern year would be that much more of a shock.

I was accepted to medical school in October 2010, after a few attempts.

Unfortunatly, about a year ago, my consulting career really took off, too (I became the second in command of the hospital management practice for a very large firm). I jetted across the globe in first class, got to do some really interesting work, travelled to some of the most amazing cities on the planet, and had a great paycheck and stock options (and the autonomy that came with it). I had no debt, no family, and really no worries.

I also was dating a nice TV actress, too.

I was dreading making the move. In the end, I enrolled in school. I am not sure why. Fate has a very sinister way of testing you, it seems.

Nedless to say, it has been a huge adjustment. I am not sure if it was the right move quite yet.

I did pass my first block exam, though (my first test in about 7 years).

ucladoc2b said:

I was accepted to medical school in October 2010, after a few attempts.

Unfortunatly, about a year ago, my consulting career really took off, too (I became the second in command of the hospital management practice for a very large firm). I jetted across the globe in first class, got to do some really interesting work, travelled to some of the most amazing cities on the planet, and had a great paycheck and stock options (and the autonomy that came with it). I had no debt, no family, and really no worries.

I also was dating a nice TV actress, too.

I was dreading making the move. In the end, I enrolled in school. I am not sure why. Fate has a very sinister way of testing you, it seems.

Nedless to say, it has been a huge adjustment. I am not sure if it was the right move quite yet.

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Whoah. That's the worst switch short of rockstardom.

My vote for most difficult to stomach.

Wow...the stories are both inspiring and frightening.

I have not entered med school yet, but the talks of debt and missing out on family are daunting. My husband was going to retire from the military, but instead he is taking his honorable discharge in 2012 so we can settle down in one location and I can attend medical school. At one point I tried to say we don't have to do this, I don't want anyone sacrificing for me. My husband is amazingly supportive and stopped me from saying those words again. He knows how passionate I am about this.

I'm also a little itty bitty pre-med, but had a question.

For those of you who went to medical school a non-traditionally older age, was it hard for you to fit in? Did you feel somewhat out of place?

If I'm lucky, I"ll matriculate at the age of 36. I'm social and love making new friends but always wondered how receptive young medical students were to the idea of an older classmate.

avaAdore said:

I'm also a little itty bitty pre-med, but had a question.

For those of you who went to medical school a non-traditionally older age, was it hard for you to fit in? Did you feel somewhat out of place?

If I'm lucky, I"ll matriculate at the age of 36. I'm social and love making new friends but always wondered how receptive young medical students were to the idea of an older classmate.

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From the perspective of a younger classmate, I don't want to hang out socially with older guys that don't have a PhD or something cool to add to the conversation.

However, in class and such, I treat people equally, so unless your goal of going to med school is to socialize with younger people, I suspect that many of your future classmates would treat you with the same respect in-class.

Morsetlis said:

From the perspective of a younger classmate, I don't want to hang out socially with older guys that don't have a PhD or something cool to add to the conversation.

However, in class and such, I treat people equally, so unless your goal of going to med school is to socialize with younger people, I suspect that many of your future classmates would treat you with the same respect in-class.

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no.... thats not my goal of going to med-school, but i can imagine how helpful it would be to have someone to study with and ask for help from time to time.

... oh and to relieve stress, the occasional beer wouldn't hurt.

Well, some people are more mature than others.

When I asked my female friend (who's in 3rd year of Pharm school) which people make the best study buddies, she said:

Stay away from the girls.



P.S. Don't you think you could still maintain a successful consultation business after graduation? Or is that something that requires full-time involvement?

avaAdore said:

For those of you who went to medical school a non-traditionally older age, was it hard for you to fit in? Did you feel somewhat out of place?

If I'm lucky, I"ll matriculate at the age of 36. I'm social and love making new friends but always wondered how receptive young medical students were to the idea of an older classmate.

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Not an issue at all, unless you go out of your way to make it one.

Being an older classmate was not a issue whatsoever. Except they thought I brought far better study food than the younger classmates did.

avaAdore said:

I'm also a little itty bitty pre-med, but had a question.

For those of you who went to medical school a non-traditionally older age, was it hard for you to fit in? Did you feel somewhat out of place?

If I'm lucky, I"ll matriculate at the age of 36. I'm social and love making new friends but always wondered how receptive young medical students were to the idea of an older classmate.

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Lot's of votes for doesn't matter. If you're socially oriented then you should go with that. And don't worry. Plenty of friends to be had.

But the life arc is undeniable. I couldn't stay in a night club with 18 to 25 y/o's with ****ty music pumping unless I was seven different kinds of loaded. And I'm not into that anymore. So.

I am. The older I get. More content in my own company. I'd rather have one good friend than a thousand acquaintances. Sounds morbid for social people. Sounds perfectly fine to a...few?..of us. I don't know. We don't talk about it.

I've already seen plenty of people come and go. I don't vote. I don't root for the home team. And I don't count on knowing any of these people around me in 10 years.

If I do...cool. Do I worry one way or the other? No.

So. Yes. Plenty of people will write lovely things in your yearbook. What you do with that is up to you.

When I'm knee deep studying for exams and trying to cram a sea of trivia into my brain that I know I will quickly forget hours after the test, I frequently think how happy I was with my previous career and paycheck and lifestyle. Why did I purposefully put myself through this again?

That constant lingering doubt in the back of your mind if you made the right choice--THAT is the hardest part for me so far.

ShyRem said:

... Except they thought I brought far better study food than the younger classmates did.

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lol. You definitely will have some bemused nostalgia when hanging out with the younger set who serve beer and cheetos at their get togethers instead of wine and brie. Other than that I think the old timers mesh fairly well.

Isoprop said:

When I'm knee deep studying for exams and trying to cram a sea of trivia into my brain that I know I will quickly forget hours after the test, I frequently think how happy I was with my previous career and paycheck and lifestyle. Why did I purposefully put myself through this again?

That constant lingering doubt in the back of your mind if you made the right choice--THAT is the hardest part for me so far.

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Seriously? I found it the opposite. A ton to know, but at least you are always learning, moving forward, keeping those neural nets forming in your brain. And throughout med school and residency you periodically stop and step back and realize that you are accomplishing something very few have the opportunity to do, and do things others will only experience in movies/TV. How many people have experienced dissection lab, or autopsy? How many people have gotten into the OR? How many people get to handle someone's heart, or sew back on a mangled ear, or drill a hole in someone's head, or put a big needle into someone's spinal canal? You get to do this kind of stuff. Your friends are all sitting in cubicles shuffling papers and talking on the phone all day. Really nothing to doubt yourself about. You only get to go around in life once, and while playing it safe has it's benefits and is easier, you kind of miss out on the opportunity to do a lot of cool things first hand that most people have to imagine.

Law2Doc said:

Seriously? I found it the opposite. A ton to know, but at least you are always learning, moving forward, keeping those neural nets forming in your brain. And throughout med school and residency you periodically stop and step back and realize that you are accomplishing something very few have the opportunity to do, and do things others will only experience in movies/TV. How many people have experienced dissection lab, or autopsy? How many people have gotten into the OR? How many people get to handle someone's heart, or sew back on a mangled ear, or drill a hole in someone's head, or put a big needle into someone's spinal canal? You get to do this kind of stuff. Your friends are all sitting in cubicles shuffling papers and talking on the phone all day. Really nothing to doubt yourself about. You only get to go around in life once, and while playing it safe has it's benefits and is easier, you kind of miss out on the opportunity to do a lot of cool things first hand that most people have to imagine.

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I think questioning your decision sometimes is pretty normal for everyone in medical training, let alone for nontrads. You're making a huge change in your life at a high financial and personal cost. Some of your nonmedical friends (or even your spouse) may be wondering why you're wanting to put yourself (and them) through a decade of upheaval. You go from being comfortable and competent in your old life to being incompetent and out of your comfort zone. Every time you start to get the hang of things, they change the rules on you. For every amazing moment of "wow, this is cool!", there is an equally awful moment of "what did I get myself into!" I'm not at all saying that it's not worth it or that people shouldn't do it; that would be pretty disingenuous of me. But it's also true that you have to be just a little insane to do it, and especially to do it as a nontrad with a spouse and family in tow.

Isoprop, hang in there. A lot of people don't enjoy the preclinical years, where what you're doing is very far from what you'll be doing as a physician. But it does get better.

NTF said:

Ditto for me. I was talking with my wife last weekend about how the hardest thing for me is the perpetual state of guilt I carry around. When I'm at the hospital I feel guilty that I'm not at home helping out with the kids and about the burdens my wife shoulders alone. When I'm at home I feel guilty that I'm not studying or preparing myself better for my patients. People who pursue medicine tend to be ambitious and are used to expecting a certain level of excellence from themselves. And it's been difficult to often carry around this feeling that I'm shoddy at everything (being a father, husband, and medical student) because I don't have the time to give myself to any one endeavor to do it proper justice. I try to make my peace with it and do my best to realize that nothing will ever be perfect. Nothing will ever be 100% but I can at least ensure that it's never 0%.

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I feel the same way sometimes.

I also have scale back from being jealous of my classmates free time. When I hear one complaining about how stressed about studying they are, or how they don't have time, etc.--I just want to say "Try studying with kids screaming and crying." Or "try studying when your kid's principal calls for a meeting" or "try studying when your wife is pissed about you studying (while she is handling everything)-so you have to stop and help so she wont be so pissed." or "try studying when your kid needs to learn how to spell."- On and on and on...

It's a huge balance between wanting to know everything-AOA-insane step score and keeping your family intact with general good feelings towards you.

QofQuimica said:

...But it's also true that you have to be just a little insane to do it, and especially to do it as a nontrad with a spouse and family in tow...

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The unconventional in this world have always been thought insane by some. But the truth of the matter is you only get 75-100 years on this planet and it's over. And you spend more than half of your awake life at work. So you kind of have to pick something with the wow factor, IMHO, or you miss out. You can have a cool career and a good family life -- plenty of people seem to manage that. Finding balance is the struggle. And having a good support system to make things possible when the work hours get too crazy.

Law2Doc said:

Seriously? I found it the opposite. A ton to know, but at least you are always learning, moving forward, keeping those neural nets forming in your brain. And throughout med school and residency you periodically stop and step back and realize that you are accomplishing something very few have the opportunity to do, and do things others will only experience in movies/TV. How many people have experienced dissection lab, or autopsy? How many people have gotten into the OR? How many people get to handle someone's heart, or sew back on a mangled ear, or drill a hole in someone's head, or put a big needle into someone's spinal canal? You get to do this kind of stuff. Your friends are all sitting in cubicles shuffling papers and talking on the phone all day. Really nothing to doubt yourself about. You only get to go around in life once, and while playing it safe has it's benefits and is easier, you kind of miss out on the opportunity to do a lot of cool things first hand that most people have to imagine.

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I agree that medicine is a very cool job, and I don't regret making my choice so far. But I was still happy with my previous career and I would have been content doing that for the rest of my life. Especially the lifestyle that came with it. It was not glamorous, but it was certainly comfortable.

And the closer it gets to an exam date, the more I find myself wondering what could have been if I continued with my previous life.

QofQuimica said:

Isoprop, hang in there. A lot of people don't enjoy the preclinical years, where what you're doing is very far from what you'll be doing as a physician. But it does get better.

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Thanks. I'm hoping I survive and get there soon! I've been in med school for 3 months now, but I already feel like I've been in here forever.

Isoprop said:

Thanks. I'm hoping I survive and get there soon! I've been in med school for 3 months now, but I already feel like I've been in here forever.

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Substitute "residency" for "med school" and "four months" for "three months", and amen, my friend.

pkwraith said:

As a single guy (aka zero expenses), probably the change in standard of living. Going from buying what you want, whenever you want, as much as you want to sticking to a strict budget. Going from eating out every night, to eating out once a month. Going from elite status on airlines/hotels to never traveling anywhere.

It's a big transition once you've lived the high live to go back to being a poor college student.

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I was thinking about this. Not to brag at all, but I am a 26 y/o single/unmarried male with a medical related career a very comfortable living. I don't have a car because I live in a big city type area with plenty of public transport and live walking distance from work.

I would hate returning to the whole poor student lifestyle when I hopefully start medical school in 2014. I will have loads of cash saved up and hope to minimize loans as much possible. I might use some loans just to keep extra money to myself. I admit I like to treat myself to things like elite status in hotels/airlines, opera, etc.

For those of us with money saved up and little obligations (if any) to others, we can still live some sort of "high life" in medical school.:thumbup...but that high life is all relative.

as a non-trad I am looking at 4 years between having graduated from undergrad and matriculating to medical school (please for the love of Christ, let me get in on my first app cycle!.)

That being said, I think one of the most difficult challenges is maintaining my "recommendation network," of professors from undergrad. It is important to maintain frequent contact so that in several years time I don't just say "hey remember me? I need a recommendation letter now," - but on the other side of the coin, it doesn't do much for me unless I have accomplished something since last I spoke with them, or if some new development in my path to medical school has arisen.

The other thing that I find tough about being a non-trad, is the stormy cloud of yesteryear, that is, poor undergrad GPA and overcompensating in my "off"-years, and the worry that even in the end, it won't work out. Hoping my MCAT score will overshadow poor UG GPA though.

Finally, finances. Every cent I earn goes towards graduate school tuition, public transportation to get to volunteering and shadowing. The one indulgence I let myself have is I bought a NY Giants sweater - but besides that, I can't remember the last time I spent my money on anything "frivolous," or something that served no purpose in my path to medical school.

But the rewards when you come out on the other side are great.