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dude,

what crawled up your a$$???

Relax, man... You'll live longer...

Peace
 
i dunno about these salary websites....they ALL have such different numbers. I think they all use different sources, locations, specifics to fill out these numbers.

the 2nd link seems to show every specialty as very optimistic. and the first one just looks wrong altogether.

are there any *official* websites with this kind of information? possibly US Government sites?
 
Hey, ririri

Hope things work out for you. Dr. Cut's hard work came through last year and same will go for you as well.

Anyways, according to the survey I posted, ~200k is the median income for the Chicago area pathologists.

What are you hearing from the attendings?

It was my understanding that figure has been the historic median salary for pathologists.(Granted I am not considering inflation into account) Simiar number was quoted in Iserson.

Good luck with your match!!!
 
Originally posted by pathstudent
it is really distasteful for medical students to worry about how much they are going to make
Click to expand...

Riiiiiight! Cuz your future salary is so inconsequential. I mean, who cares? Hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, close to a decade and a half of education while deferring an income?.why would anyone possibly be concerned with their future compensation?

I?m with you?this is crazy.

:laugh:
 
Originally posted by Teufelhunden
Riiiiiight! Cuz your future salary is so inconsequential. I mean, who cares? Hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, close to a decade and a half of education while deferring an income?.why would anyone possibly be concerned with their future compensation?

I?m with you?this is crazy.

:laugh:
Click to expand...

Word. Worrying about my future compensation is basically all I do now. Every time I take out another annual $40,000 loan, I look ahead to my future salary with quiet desperation. Even for a fringe hippy, I'm living a pretty spartan lifestyle here.
 
Originally posted by pathstudent
so you better do something because you love it because I think doctor salaries will continue to go down in the future.
Click to expand...

Pure, utter crap. Sure, there will always be fluctuations...every specialty of medicine goes through it. But in the end, supply and demand will always win. Check out the Bureau of Labor Statistics page...or the recent article in Newsweek...there are going to be enormous physician shortages in a decade or so. So...demand is on the rise...supply remains stagnant...ergo good salaries are pretty much guaranteed.

The 80s are another story from what I've heard...there was a lot of shady **** going on...like you said, the kickbacks, docs ordering labs, etc they didn't need. So yeah...salaries may never go back to what they were, but docs will always be the highest paid profession in the U.S. (on average, i.e. as a group).
 
NIH is lookign for a pathoigist trained in Neuropathology with a salary range of 90K - 120K. That sounds just fine to me. Geez, how much monye does one need to be happy?
 
Buddy,

I apologize I offended you with such a lowly gesture.

I didn't realize you were one of very few medical students who did not care about compesation. You must have either loaded parents or must have gone to state school. Good for you, I wish I had either one of those luxuries.

It is good that you're completely immune to such mudane affair as compesation but I am not sure how I should respond to rather unprovoked(what I think it to be) attacks... I personally would like to guestimate which tax bracket I am gonna be in when I am done paying my dues.

You probably assumed(from my handle) that I was psych-bound and felt that you were being judged.

You probably are questioned from your classmates for wanting to pursue a career in pathology. Don't you just hate that look? Sure, you will try to explain what you are gonna be doing using those CSI references but to no avail. For you, it is prestige that matters most rather than compesation.

Isn't that why you posted that you hope pathology gets as hot as radiology is right now? I bet you will get real good rise out of that.


Don't you just hate when people make assumptions about you from simple statements you make?

BTW good luck with all your interviews. You probaly will need to get into a big time program to stroke your ego...
 
of course it's a valid topic.....ANY professional wants to know his/her job perspectives and future outlooks.

i've been in university since 1994....if i wanted to make $38,000 a year for the rest of my life, i would NOT have chosen Medicine as my profession. I'm not saying that i chose Medicine to "make money".....BUT one must accept the fact that money is a part of life...and it's practically human nature in western civilisation/modern civilisation to look at monetary issues.

Income of a profession can also be correlated with demand of the profession in discussion. No one is gonna pay a Surgical Oncologist $500,000 if there isn't any demand for the field....similiarly, no one is gonna pay a Family Practitioner $500,000 because there is an abundance of supply.

Sertraline...it's funny you mention Dr. Cuts......i've known him for years (he's a friend of mine) actually and I used to go over to his house every day last year and remembered watching his whole process unfold. I BASED some of my Match strategies off many of the things he did last year....so we'll see what happens. Thanks for the wellwishes.

CHEERS
 
easy guys.... nothing wrong with making cash. i know if my kids take after me then i plan on making their orthodontist a rich cat- i can use all i can get. anyway, if you make more than you need or want, you can always donate it to a worthy cause.
 
Pathology probably has one of the better hourly wages out there. Let's not let everyone in on the secret 🙂.
 
on 7/19/2003
you wrote,
"Let's discuss salaries more"

Distasteful????

Stop this nonsense....

You pissed me off by writing what you wrote and I acted like a jerk by writing what I did.

You rather discuss salary in your private circle. I understand that now.

We should stop because we are making others uncomfortable. PM me for anything else.
 
ririri - you actually know the one, the only, THE dr. cuts?!!!? that guy was my idol last year. well, actually he was rads19's idol, but anyway. he gave strength to the weak, hope to the hopeless, optimism to the most pessimistic among us. i'm hoping this year's match treats you as well as it did him last year. hang in there. hope your talk goes well tomorrow. sorry i have no good advice about it.
 
Someone said pathologists have one of the best hourly wages out there. What, pray tell, is the average hours per week a practicing pathologist, after residency, works? What would be the corresponding average salary? Thanks!
 
Some people say that because the average hours worked per week is less for a pathologist. It isn't always true. It's just one way to look at things. No one is going to have real numbers for you because the range is so great (in both hours worked and in salary). Dunno. 5 days/week anywhere between 8-12 hours/day, occasional call at night. Do the math. Not much different from other specialties truthfully, IMHO.
 
yaah said:
5 days/week anywhere between 8-12 hours/day, occasional call at night.
Click to expand...

It's actually in my contract that I will work 40-50 hours per week, not including call. (Busy community hospital practice.)
 
RyMcQ said:
It's actually in my contract that I will work 40-50 hours per week, not including call. (Busy community hospital practice.)
Click to expand...

I think my projected private gig next year is <30 hrs/week with 3months off a year and no CP call.

No idea where/how they gather that salary data from. I think for the most part it never helps the average person coming out. For path, I would say its meaningless. Its like saying you could go to Vegas a become a millionare, yeah you could, but you wont.
 
I am honestly sick and tired of people bashing doctors/med students worried about money.

People go into medicine because they love it (At least I do). But MONEY MATTERS.

I am tired of people having to justify themselves to others because they wanna make money.
Businessmen/women do not have to justify their profits.
No other profession really does as much income justification as medicine.
In fact, in business, the more money you make, the better regarded you are in your profession.
I'm not saying that should be the way for medicine, but money is part of your success. We live in a capitalist world and that is how things are.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but those not pursuing money should not bash those who are concerned about it.
My point is one: YES, I love medicine, but I want to do something I love along with something that will allow me to live a good life and provide for my family (kids, parents if needed and others).
There is nothing, NOTHING, wrong with worrying how much you will make after residency.
 
Of course not. But there is something a bit off about picking a field of medicine because of the specific salary or hours. Sometimes I get the sense that aspiring (or current) med students sift through different career options and before considering what the field actually involves, they look at benefits and salary. Of course it's a consideration. If doctors made $30000 a year there would be very few doctors given the amount of sacrifice and education you have to undergo.
 
Recent salaries for graduates 2005-2006 ( I will not give specifics so as not to give away personal details):

Cytology/surgpath, private practice, in the midwest- $180 K starting; 12 weeks vac/year.

GI Biopsy/surgpath, private practice in midwest- $190 K starting

Dermpath/surgpath, private practice in California- $230 K starting

Hempath, commercial lab in Nevada- $225 K starting

--- Nobody from my program went to the east coast, but my understanding is that it's similar to the west coast in terms of salary---
 
Does anyone have an idea of the approximate starting salary an AP/CP/dermpath-boarded person should expect if he/she is planning on working at an academic center in the midwest?
 
NunoBR said:
I am honestly sick and tired of people bashing doctors/med students worried about money.

People go into medicine because they love it (At least I do). But MONEY MATTERS.

I am tired of people having to justify themselves to others because they wanna make money.
Businessmen/women do not have to justify their profits.
No other profession really does as much income justification as medicine.
In fact, in business, the more money you make, the better regarded you are in your profession.
I'm not saying that should be the way for medicine, but money is part of your success. We live in a capitalist world and that is how things are.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but those not pursuing money should not bash those who are concerned about it.
My point is one: YES, I love medicine, but I want to do something I love along with something that will allow me to live a good life and provide for my family (kids, parents if needed and others).
There is nothing, NOTHING, wrong with worrying how much you will make after residency.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
dpdoc said:
Does anyone have an idea of the approximate starting salary an AP/CP/dermpath-boarded person should expect if he/she is planning on working at an academic center in the midwest?
Click to expand...

Most academic jobs are about $120-140 per year no matter what specialty of path you are in. And that is a high estimate, including a lot of benefits. Starting assistant profs often make under $110k.

An AP/CP/dermpath person who wants to work at an academic center also needs to have either research grant money or extensive publishing experience/prestige in the field. Academics don't just hire people out of fellowship for the most part for service work (although it does happen).
 
LADoc00 said:
What happens if you exceed the "MAX" stat for your speciality?? Does the CAP give me a cookie?
Click to expand...

I would hope it is a REALLY nice cookie.
 
andwhat said:
this is outdated, I make better than this, as a Hospitalist.
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Thanks for informing us that a 2.5 year old thread is outdated...
 
This thread has been very helpful.

I'm sure that this has been said many times, but salary is a tertiary or quaternary concern. However, it is still a concern.

I'm interested in many fields of medicine, and for me to begin ruling out some and ruling in others, I have to know the all around facts, including salary. If the salary of a pathologist is not within the range that I deem acceptable, I will rule it out, no matter how much I enjoy it, because I am also interested in other fields.

As another poster has stated, the fact that we have to justify why we're interested in salaries every time it's asked is completely ridiculous. No other line of work criticizes for asking how much an employee is expected to make.
 
tco said:
This thread has been very helpful.

I'm sure that this has been said many times, but salary is a tertiary or quaternary concern. However, it is still a concern.

I'm interested in many fields of medicine, and for me to begin ruling out some and ruling in others, I have to know the all around facts, including salary. If the salary of a pathologist is not within the range that I deem acceptable, I will rule it out, no matter how much I enjoy it, because I am also interested in other fields.

As another poster has stated, the fact that we have to justify why we're interested in salaries every time it's asked is completely ridiculous. No other line of work criticizes for asking how much an employee is expected to make.
Click to expand...

What salary is acceptable to you? Are you restricted geographically when it comes to jobs?
 
tco said:
I'm sure that this has been said many times, but salary is a tertiary or quaternary concern. However, it is still a concern.

I'm interested in many fields of medicine, and for me to begin ruling out some and ruling in others, I have to know the all around facts, including salary. If the salary of a pathologist is not within the range that I deem acceptable, I will rule it out, no matter how much I enjoy it, because I am also interested in other fields.
Click to expand...

Salary is a tertiary or quaternary concern for you, but it's still enough for you to rule out a field of medicine "no matter how much you enjoy it"?

This implies that enjoying your job is at most priority number 4 or 5.
 
KeratinPearls said:
What salary is acceptable to you? Are you restricted geographically when it comes to jobs?
Click to expand...

I'm restricted geographically for the first 4 years of my work (after residency and fellowship training) due to a requirement to serve in a local HMO's coverage area. They paid for my medical education, so my contractual repayment is to bring my services back. The coverage area is all of Ohio and a large portion of northern WV.

Because of the simple fact that I won't be in a tremendous amount of debt, I'm more flexible when it comes to salary. However, I am unwilling to settle on a specialty under 150-200k per year. I feel that the training required to become a MD, and the years of our lives that it saps from us, are more than enough to be paid this amount, no matter the specialty.

Salary is a tertiary or quaternary concern for you, but it's still enough for you to rule out a field of medicine "no matter how much you enjoy it"?

This implies that enjoying your job is at most priority number 4 or 5.
Click to expand...

How is this accurate? IMO, the quoted statement is poor deductive reasoning. If I equally enjoy two fields, all else being nearly equal, and one pays more than the other, why would I pursue the field that pays less?
 
tco said:
I'm restricted geographically for the first 4 years of my work (after residency and fellowship training) due to a requirement to serve in a local HMO's coverage area. They paid for my medical education, so my contractual repayment is to bring my services back.
Click to expand...

Forgive my ignorance, but what is this about? I've of heard of all sorts of arrangements people have made to reduce their educational expenses: military obligations, rural/Indian health service obligations, etc. But this is a new one to me.
 
TMZ2007 said:
Forgive my ignorance, but what is this about? I've of heard of all sorts of arrangements people have made to reduce their educational expenses: military obligations, rural/Indian health service obligations, etc. But this is a new one to me.
Click to expand...

Here's the scholarship portion of WVU's website: http://www.hsc.wvu.edu/fin/medaid.htm

Here's the scholarship I have received:
HEALTH PLAN SCHOLARSHIP
The Health Plan is offering a need based scholarship (usually determined by Pell Grant eligibility during undergraduate years), intended to offset educational costs (tuition and fees and required books & supplies and equipment), for individuals obtaining their Doctor of Medicine degree and interested in practicing in the geographical Health Plan area (from Clarksburg, WV to Cleveland, OH). The student must be originally from the Health Plan Service Area. (Scholarship applicants must originally reside in one of the service area counties (those in green, yellow and blue). Those from the "secondary service area" counties are not eligible to apply.) The scholarship can be renewed at the discretion of the Health Plan. Funding is limited and awards will be made on a first come, first serve basis. Repayment required if student does not practice in Health Plan area after graduation. Click on the application link to obtain the application . Application must be completed by May 1st. The Health Plan will notify recipients if selected.
Click to expand...
 
tco said:
How is this accurate? IMO, the quoted statement is poor deductive reasoning. If I equally enjoy two fields, and one pays exceptionally more than the other, why would I pursue the field that pays significantly less?
Click to expand...

Poor deductive reasoning? Ouch.

Here's what you said:

If the salary of a pathologist is not within the range that I deem acceptable, I will rule it out, no matter how much I enjoy it
Click to expand...

What if you had said this:

If this girl doesn't come from a wealthy family, then I won't marry her, no matter how much I love her
Click to expand...

Would it be poor deductive reasoning to assume that you prefer money over love?

But actually, deductive reasoning is not involved here. There is nothing to be deduced, I'm just taking your words at face value. Basically you are saying that pathology could be your favorite thing on the face of the earth, but if the salary isn't within your "acceptable range" you will rule it out as a career.
 
Enkidu said:
Poor deductive reasoning? Ouch.

Here's what you said:



What if you had said this:



Would it be poor deductive reasoning to assume that you prefer money over love?

But actually, deductive reasoning is not involved here. There is nothing to be deduced, I'm just taking your words at face value. Basically you are saying that pathology could be your favorite thing on the face of the earth, but if the salary isn't within your "acceptable range" you will rule it out as a career.
Click to expand...

First of all, it is deductive. You deduced that salary is of a major concern for me since I mentioned it as a deciding factor in a specialty. The deduction was an effect --> me choosing a particular field because of a cause--> low vs high salary.

Your faulty deduction comes in the fact that you are ignoring that I said, "all other things being equal." What logical person would choose a lower paying field in the situation I outlined?

You're an MD/PhD student, so you're likely terrific at inductive reasoning. Perhaps I should list out all of the aspects of my life, provide all of the insights into my thought process, and allow you to synthesize what aspects of a profession are important to me. No...I need to make tacos for dinner at 4 PM.

The marriage example is a laughable analogy for many reasons, but we'll just treat this as an algorithm and ignore the human factors. If the only benefits of marriage were love, companionship, sex, and money - in that order of importance - and two significant others could provide the same love, companionship, and sex - what's the final deciding factor? This isn't a question of some saying that money matters but my brother saying big brains matter most.

Why are we arguing over this? Again, I have no need to defend my statements. It doesn't matter if money is my number one deciding factor for what specialty I will choose, this thread has been helpful in my decision making process, and I thank those that have contributed.
 
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tco said:
Your faulty deduction comes in the fact that you are ignoring that I said, "all other things being equal." What logical person would choose a lower paying field in the situation I outlined?
Click to expand...

The funny thing is that you never said that. You actually edited your post to contain that line after I quoted it. Just compare your post to my quote.

Why are we arguing over this? Again, I have no need to defend my statements. It doesn't matter if money is my number 1 deciding factor for what specialty I will choose, this thread has been helpful in my decision making process, and I thank those that have contributed.
Click to expand...

You're right, you don't have to defend your statements, but you're sure doing it anyway.

I'm just laughing because you're taking such pains to say that it's okay to base your career decisions on salary, but then in your case it's only a minor consideration... Even so, it just so happens that all of the specialties that you're interested in are completely tied in all of your main priorities, so you're going to end up picking a field for it's salary anyway, just as a tie-breaker... And on top of all of that, you don't even have any student loans to pay back.

It's not my deductive logic that is unusual here.
 
Enkidu said:
The funny thing is that you never said that. You actually edited your post to contain that line after I quoted it. Just compare your post to my quote.



You're right, you don't have to defend your statements, but you're sure doing it anyway.

I'm just laughing because you're taking such pains to say that it's okay to base your career decisions on salary, but then in your case it's only a minor consideration... Even so, it just so happens that all of the specialties that you're interested in are completely tied in all of your main priorities, so you're going to end up picking a field for it's salary anyway, just as a tie-breaker... And on top of all of that, you don't even have any student loans to pay back.

It's not my deductive logic that is unusual here.
Click to expand...


The only posts that I've edited say, "Last edited by...."

It's surely impossible for you to pick and choose what words you want to show up in your quotes, right?

You also proved with this post that what I am saying is accurate. If salary is a tie-breaker, it's not a primary concern. If I was genuinely only interested in salary, why would I not be considering neurosurgery, plastics, or rads? I'm not interested in those fields at all.

I hope you don't find this too offensive: I'm blocking you. You're not worth the time to respond to in this thread.
 
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tco said:
I'm restricted geographically for the first 4 years of my work (after residency and fellowship training) due to a requirement to serve in a local HMO's coverage area. They paid for my medical education, so my contractual repayment is to bring my services back. The coverage area is all of Ohio and a large portion of northern WV.

Because of the simple fact that I won't be in a tremendous amount of debt, I'm more flexible when it comes to salary. However, I am unwilling to settle on a specialty under 150-200k per year. I feel that the training required to become a MD, and the years of our lives that it saps from us, are more than enough to be paid this amount, no matter the specialty.



How is this accurate? IMO, the quoted statement is poor deductive reasoning. If I equally enjoy two fields, all else being nearly equal, and one pays more than the other, why would I pursue the field that pays less?
Click to expand...

I think most pathologists can eventually make 200K for 40 hours of work (I know attendings at my program make at least that much and most have 8-5 pm days). The job market in pathology is not great. You said that you are interested in many fields however, I think Pathology is very different. You have to love sitting at and looking through the scope most of the day. I would recommend you do a rotation (if you haven't already). There is a range in salary for pathologists (depending on your specialty) from what I have heard and read about. You may not be able to work in the place of your choice. You really need to make local connections in an area you want to work, so aim for a program in the area you'd like to work.

Pathology is an interesting field. However, make sure you like it. I dont think I could work in any other field no matter how much you paid me...I wouldn't be happy in the long run.
 
KeratinPearls said:
I think most pathologists can eventually make 200K for 40 hours of work (I know attendings at my program make at least that much and most have 8-5 pm days). The job market in pathology is not great. You said that you are interested in many fields however, I think Pathology is very different. You have to love sitting at and looking through the scope most of the day. I would recommend you do a rotation (if you haven't already). There is a range in salary for pathologists (depending on your specialty) from what I have heard and read about. You may not be able to work in the place of your choice. You really need to make local connections in an area you want to work, so aim for a program in the area you'd like to work.

Pathology is an interesting field. However, make sure you like it. I dont think I could work in any other field no matter how much you paid me...I wouldn't be happy in the long run.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response.

I'm currently in a post-sophomore fellowship, so I'll have a full year to figure out if I really like it or not.
 
KeratinPearls said:
Pathology is an interesting field. However, make sure you like it. I dont think I could work in any other field no matter how much you paid me...I wouldn't be happy in the long run.
Click to expand...

I completely agree here. While I can't understand how someone can love (equally) four or five different specialties, I can understand that we're all different. However, if I didn't absolutely love this, I couldn't invest the time, sacrifice, and (at times) the mental/emotional exhaustion that comes with pathology (or any) residency training. For me, choosing pathology had nothing to do with money (I honestly had no idea of average salary before I started the residency....still not clear on it, either). But when it comes to getting a job, it's important to have an idea of the "market price" so that you can know whether a salary offer is a fair one.
 
KeratinPearls said:
I think most pathologists can eventually make 200K for 40 hours of work (I know attendings at my program make at least that much and most have 8-5 pm days). The job market in pathology is not great. You said that you are interested in many fields however, I think Pathology is very different. You have to love sitting at and looking through the scope most of the day. I would recommend you do a rotation (if you haven't already). There is a range in salary for pathologists (depending on your specialty) from what I have heard and read about. You may not be able to work in the place of your choice. You really need to make local connections in an area you want to work, so aim for a program in the area you'd like to work.

Pathology is an interesting field. However, make sure you like it. I dont think I could work in any other field no matter how much you paid me...I wouldn't be happy in the long run.
Click to expand...

EVENTUALLY make more than 200K/year? I was hired by P.P. in 1988
for $100K my first year and they/ I knew it was a STEAL but it fit our (group and me/wife) scenario. As a matter of fact, when we had a firing of a path who had been there for a few years w/o making partner and the fired path sued it was brought up in court that I was hired for such a low figure. My first year as a partner (1992, after a ~$230 buy-in) I made $700K---about 1M in today money. What the hell is going on out there???
We have since sold but even being part of a cabal to destroy the field of P.P. pathology (toung-in-cheek for the irate) I STILL make $400+ as a minion of the Masters of Doom.
I must REALLY be out of the loop or EXCEPTIONALLY lucky for the "NORM" in this field to be $200/yr after years of capable service.
 
mikesheree said:
EVENTUALLY make more than 200K/year? I was hired by P.P. in 1988
for $100K my first year and they/ I knew it was a STEAL but it fit our (group and me/wife) scenario. As a matter of fact, when we had a firing of a path who had been there for a few years w/o making partner and the fired path sued it was brought up in court that I was hired for such a low figure. My first year as a partner (1992, after a ~$230 buy-in) I made $700K---about 1M in today money. What the hell is going on out there???
We have since sold but even being part of a cabal to destroy the field of P.P. pathology (toung-in-cheek for the irate) I STILL make $400+ as a minion of the Masters of Doom.
I must REALLY be out of the loop or EXCEPTIONALLY lucky for the "NORM" in this field to be $200/yr after years of capable service.
Click to expand...

Dude you need to chill . I said I can see paths making AT LEAST that much. I know there are pathologists out there making as much as you who have 6 mil in the bank.
 
KeratinPearls said:
Dude you need to chill . I said I can see paths making AT LEAST that much. I know there are pathologists out there making as much as you who have 6 mil in the bank.
Click to expand...

6M "in the bank" sounds good when you say it fast but at a generally "safe" recommended rate of withdrawal of 4% annually that will get you $240K/YR w/o exhausting your resources (and no certain cushion for your kids-which I want)). I want my 6M to become 10---should happen in about 5 yrs with a realistic 7% return for my mix and dollar cost averaging investing in a broadly diversived mix). If this is silly, unrealistic, mercenary, greedy, etc.) perhaps I need to "chill".
If you find yourself at 60 years old and are just fine with 2M of LIQUID net worth
then you have my best wishes.

I think LaDoc gives seminars on this topic.

And you certainly did say "EVENTUALLY" make 200K/yr. That is what sent me off.
 
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Perhaps the poster was addressing me with the "eventually," as I am not even finished with medical school yet? Eventually, when I finish residency, I could make 200k+.
 
zao275 said:
$400k per year working for a mega-lab? Wow. Didn't realize they paid so much!
Click to expand...

I believe it is a hospital based practice that is owned by most likely ameripath. If the practice was still independent he would still be making around 700k. The difference is the Ameritax. It is the trade off for the big paycheck. Great if you get the big paycheck. Not so great if you are a newbie. But if people think 200k is a load of money, then maybe 400k seems phenomenal.
 
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