3.2 GPA, diverse ECs, mcat soon

chiddler · Nov 24, 2011

boch cumulative and science GPA: 3.2, with a good upward trend after 2nd year.

MCAT: Assume I do well. Not to underestimate the exam, but I know that I have to if i'm to have the slighest chance. Else i'll look into SMP.

ECs:
50 hours shadowing a physician
1 year hospital volunteering
2 years research with 1 publication and a summer research scholarship
Certificate of ethnomusicology (got a letter of rec here, too!)
~3 years of volunteering at a non-profit school (tutored, did a looot of construction, cleaning, etc)

I'm a musician, lift weights, played league soccer for a little bit, and held a job for two years tutoring middle school (7/8th grade) students.

So. Worth applying or just aim straight for smp? I really appreciate the help! Thanks a lot.

SilenceDoBad · Nov 24, 2011

chiddler said:
boch cumulative and science GPA: 3.2, with a good upward trend after 2nd year.

MCAT: Assume I do well. Not to underestimate the exam, but I know that I have to if i'm to have the slighest chance. Else i'll look into SMP.

ECs:
50 hours shadowing a physician
1 year hospital volunteering
2 years research with 1 publication and a summer research scholarship
Certificate of ethnomusicology (got a letter of rec here, too!)
~3 years of volunteering at a non-profit school (tutored, did a looot of construction, cleaning, etc)

I'm a musician, lift weights, played league soccer for a little bit, and held a job for two years tutoring middle school (7/8th grade) students.

So. Worth applying or just aim straight for smp? I really appreciate the help! Thanks a lot.

Dude, with the ethnomusicology cert you are totally ahead of the curve. In fact, I believe the majority of medical schools waive the MCAT for you. And you lift weights too!

chiddler · Nov 24, 2011

SilenceDoBad said:
Dude, with the ethnomusicology cert you are totally ahead of the curve. In fact, I believe the majority of medical schools waive the MCAT for you. And you lift weights too!

I've rejected so many job offers, i've lost count!

(i wrote weights because i saw somebody else writing their hobbies in a similar post :x)

Goro · Nov 25, 2011

Take the MCAT and then assess your odds. Rule out MD, but you might be competetive for some (not all) DO schools. SMP/or post-bac stongly suggested.

chiddler said:
boch cumulative and science GPA: 3.2, with a good upward trend after 2nd year.

MCAT: Assume I do well. Not to underestimate the exam, but I know that I have to if i'm to have the slighest chance. Else i'll look into SMP.

ECs:
50 hours shadowing a physician
1 year hospital volunteering
2 years research with 1 publication and a summer research scholarship
Certificate of ethnomusicology (got a letter of rec here, too!)
~3 years of volunteering at a non-profit school (tutored, did a looot of construction, cleaning, etc)

I'm a musician, lift weights, played league soccer for a little bit, and held a job for two years tutoring middle school (7/8th grade) students.

So. Worth applying or just aim straight for smp? I really appreciate the help! Thanks a lot.

1TB4RKSB4CK · Nov 25, 2011

If you want to take post-bac to increase your GPA to at LEAST a 3.4 sci and core, then you can apply MD.

sector9 · Nov 25, 2011

Can you describe more about your upward GPA trend? If possible, break it down for each academic year (frosh, soph, etc)

chiddler · Nov 26, 2011

JohnnyRomanes said:
If you want to take post-bac to increase your GPA to at LEAST a 3.4 sci and core, then you can apply MD.

If you don't mind, i'd like to turn the direction of this around and ask you: isn't post-bac more beneficial for individuals who have not completed their bio prerequisites? SMP would be better for me as a biology major, yes?

sector9 said:
Can you describe more about your upward GPA trend? If possible, break it down for each academic year (frosh, soph, etc)

I spent a lot of time looking at my grades and decided that the "upward trend" is fake. My GPA year 1+2 was ~2.7, then 3.5-.8 in year 3-4. But the increase is because i took easy classes and research units (automatic A's).

so nevermind i don't think i have a shot. I pose the same question for you that I wrote above, if you wouldn't mind answering.

really appreciate both responses, thanks a lot.

Catalystik · Nov 26, 2011

chiddler said:
isn't post-bac more beneficial for individuals who have not completed their bio prerequisites? SMP would be better for me as a biology major, yes?

Technically, the term "postbac" includes an SMP, but in SDN usage, an SMP is often referred to as a separate category. A non-SMP postbac can be an informal do-it-yourself program, or a formal one meant either for a person with no prerequisites yet or for a science major who needs to boost their GPA.

If you could demonstrate consistency with a steep upward grade trend (3.7+) for three semesters which include lots of upper-level science and get a really good MCAT score, you might get into an MD program (even though your overall GPAs still wouldn't be that great). Alternatively, if you get a decent MCAT score (30+) and complete an SMP with a 3.7+, you might get into an MD program (but these programs are competitive and you need some great grades now to prove your potential to succeed so you'll get accepted to one). "Really good" and "decent" are flexible terms that depend on the state you come from and other factors that may modify your application.

For DO schools, you could raise your GPAs by retaking any prerequistes in which you didn't do well (to take advantage of their grade forgiveness policy) or which you didn't master well enough to excel on the MCAT, along with new upper-level Bio. You'd then aim at getting an MCAT of 26-28+ (depending on schools you'd be aiming at and how high you got your GPAs).

sector9 · Nov 26, 2011

chiddler said:
If you don't mind, i'd like to turn the direction of this around and ask you: isn't post-bac more beneficial for individuals who have not completed their bio prerequisites? SMP would be better for me as a biology major, yes?

I spent a lot of time looking at my grades and decided that the "upward trend" is fake. My GPA year 1+2 was ~2.7, then 3.5-.8 in year 3-4. But the increase is because i took easy classes and research units (automatic A's).

so nevermind i don't think i have a shot. I pose the same question for you that I wrote above, if you wouldn't mind answering.

really appreciate both responses, thanks a lot.

I'm a big fan of post-baccs instead of SMPs, but like Cat said, you have more to gain by doing well in a SMP than a post-bacc.

I think your grade trend is fine. Even though the classes changed to being easier, the adcomm's probably aren't going to look that deeply at it. They'll see the GPA's calculated by AMCAS and notice that you have an upward trend. IF you can switch back to taking science-heavy courseloads in a postbacc and keep the strong grades up, then you would have a decent chance of an MD acceptance (pending a strong MCAT as well, say 33+)

chiddler · Nov 26, 2011

sector9 said:
I'm a big fan of post-baccs instead of SMPs, but like Cat said, you have more to gain by doing well in a SMP than a post-bacc.

I think your grade trend is fine. Even though the classes changed to being easier, the adcomm's probably aren't going to look that deeply at it. They'll see the GPA's calculated by AMCAS and notice that you have an upward trend. IF you can switch back to taking science-heavy courseloads in a postbacc and keep the strong grades up, then you would have a decent chance of an MD acceptance (pending a strong MCAT as well, say 33+)

Can you please tell me why you prefer bost bacc rather than a SMP?

Haven't done much research into this subject yet, so, if relevant, please excuse me: Does it make a difference where the program is completed?

sector9 · Nov 26, 2011

chiddler said:
Can you please tell me why you prefer bost bacc rather than a SMP?

Haven't done much research into this subject yet, so, if relevant, please excuse me: Does it make a difference where the program is completed?

I'm not a big fan of SMP's because they're very expensive and useless unless you get in to med school. Also, you are only considered competitive for med school if you get a 3.7+ in a SMP but you are competing directly with only med students. If you just do a post-bacc, you're competing with other undergrads so it's much easier to get a decent GPA.

I've seen several stories here from students who did a SMP and got a 3.5 or something but don't have the best chance of getting in to med school now. They did better than many of the med students but med school adcomms want an even higher GPA than they got.

More info on SMP's can be found in this forum, especially in the stickies at the top of the page http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

chiddler · Nov 26, 2011

sector9 said:
I'm not a big fan of SMP's because they're very expensive and useless unless you get in to med school. Also, you are only considered competitive for med school if you get a 3.7+ in a SMP but you are competing directly with only med students. If you just do a post-bacc, you're competing with other undergrads so it's much easier to get a decent GPA.

Yes, but I can think of two significant reasons against such a decision:
1. I've taken a lot of units already and even with straight A's it'll be a minor dent in my GPA.
2. I was just reading this. What do you think?

"It would seem to me that taking a post-bacc that largely just repeats classes you've already had won't do you much good. Since it is a post-bacc, it will average into your existing GPA and will not move it much. Plus, if you do well in a class you've already taken, what does that demonstrate to a committee, really?"

though this is an SMP adcom, i imagine some similarity with med schools.

I've seen several stories here from students who did a SMP and got a 3.5 or something but don't have the best chance of getting in to med school now. They did better than many of the med students but med school adcomms want an even higher GPA than they got.

More info on SMP's can be found in this forum, especially in the stickies at the top of the page http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

Wow...that is brutal! What is the logic in that? If students perform just as well, if not better, than medical students why would they be rejected?

sector9 · Nov 26, 2011

chiddler said:
Yes, but I can think of two significant reasons against such a decision:
1. I've taken a lot of units already and even with straight A's it'll be a minor dent in my GPA.
2. I was just reading this. What do you think?

"It would seem to me that taking a post-bacc that largely just repeats classes you've already had won't do you much good. Since it is a post-bacc, it will average into your existing GPA and will not move it much. Plus, if you do well in a class you've already taken, what does that demonstrate to a committee, really?"

though this is an SMP adcom, i imagine some similarity with med schools.

There are certainly benefits to doing the SMP. They boast some impressive acceptance numbers in some programs.

Further discussion of the GPA differences between post-bacc and SMP is here, along with a screenshot of the GPA page of the application http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11675300

Sure, your overall undergrad GPA won't move too much with a post-bacc, but with a SMP your undergrad GPA won't move at all no matter how well you do because it will be considered part of your grad GPA.

My impression was that most students who do a post-bacc don't just retake the same classes but take a variety of upper-division classes that they might not have taken before.

chiddler said:
Wow...that is brutal! What is the logic in that? If students perform just as well, if not better, than medical students why would they be rejected?

I really don't know the logic. It does seem unfair. Such students would presumably still have a good chance of an acceptance at the med school associated with the SMP no matter how "outside" adcomms viewed it

TBH, before you decide, I would read more in the postbacc forums, including the opinions of various students in the programs. I believe the applications are available starting in January for SMP's so you have a little bit to decide what's best for you

chiddler · Nov 26, 2011

Again thanks very much for your help. I'll will indeed do more research into this.

3.2 GPA, diverse ECs, mcat soon

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