Sorry guys, I've got another one: Researchers Grow New Teeth in Mice

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Parklife

Parklife

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I know, I know, another fear-mongering thread. I'm sorry 🙁

So what about it? We've got the magic mouth wash that will potentially eliminate carries, and now we've lost the need for implants. I doubt the pharma companies will let dentist administer treatment. It's not happening tomorrow, or next year, but do you see this becoming a "thing" in the next 50 years? It's an incredible advancement for people. Not so much for dentists and new dentists.


http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/08/bioengineered-tooth-regeneration-in.html

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2009/08/03-04.html


A thought on the sky-is-falling threads. I think everyone should realize that everything is evolving. We can't and don't want to stay the same. It's more a matter of adaption and how dental/medical/pharmaceutical education can enable us to adapt. It affects students like me, so that's why I had to make the thread. I'm not a dental student. I'm not a dentist. I don't know, and this is why I ask.
 
Parklife said:
I know, I know, another fear-mongering thread. I'm sorry 🙁

So what about it? We've got the magic mouth wash that will potentially eliminate carries, and now we've lost the need for implants. I doubt the pharma companies will let dentist administer treatment. It's not happening tomorrow, or next year, but do you see this becoming a "thing" in the next 50 years? It's an incredible advancement for people. Not so much for dentists and new dentists.


http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/08/bioengineered-tooth-regeneration-in.html

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2009/08/03-04.html


A thought on the sky-is-falling threads. I think everyone should realize that everything is evolving. We can't and don't want to stay the same. It's more a matter of adaption and how dental/medical/pharmaceutical education can enable us to adapt. It affects students like me, so that's why I had to make the thread. I'm not a dental student. I'm not a dentist. I don't know, and this is why I ask.
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Um, why is this not a good thing? If we can eliminate caries and the need for implants via preventative and alternative means, then so be it. The objective as a dentist is to improve the oral health of the population. If that eventually means we won't need dentists (ha, will never even come close to happening) then so be it. Strike one up for public health.

There is enough decay and lack of access to care to last 5 generations of dentists, easy.
 
diasIItema said:
Um, why is this not a good thing? If we can eliminate caries and the need for implants via preventative and alternative means, then so be it. The objective as a dentist is to improve the oral health of the population. If that eventually means we won't need dentists (ha, will never even come close to happening) then so be it. Strike one up for public health.

There is enough decay and lack of access to care to last 5 generations of dentists, easy.
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It's a great thing! I said that..

it's not such a great notion to some 21 year old in undergrad looking to start practicing in 4 years after taking 200k in loans, spending 4(and some would argue 8) years of his life studying something that he can't even use!

Yeah 5 generations of dentists..nobody wants to live in the boonies. Come now, let's be realistic here. In before "don't do it for money" posts. 🙄
 
This spells destruction. All past procedures were rendered obsolete with the implant. ie if you get a cavity or need crown or RCT you just opt for the implant. But now people will forego the implant and just go for the stem cell tooth regeneration..😕.

Parklife, are you the type that gets swept up and hang on every word you hear from self appointed futurists?

This is a great saying as it's pretty much a true-ism of life:

"The more things change the more they stay the same".

New billable therapies and procedures tend to result in increasing revenue not decreasing it. Despite public health policy dental caries are at epidemic levels in today's children. Lots of dentistry to do in the future as both the youngest and oldest generation alive do and will require dental services.
 
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yappy said:
This spells destruction. All past procedures were rendered obsolete with the implant. ie if you get a cavity or need crown or RCT you just opt for the implant. But now people will forego the implant and just go for the stem cell tooth regeneration..😕.

Parklife, are you the type that gets swept up and hang on every word you hear from self appointed futurists?

This is a great saying as it's pretty much a true-ism of life:

"The more things change the more they stay the same".

New billable therapies and procedures tend to result in increasing revenue not decreasing it. Despite public health policy dental caries are at epidemic levels in today's children. Lots of dentistry to do in the future as both the youngest and oldest generation alive do and will require dental services.
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How ostracized will I be if I say yes?

Elaborate on that. Do you really think less carries and no need for implants will lead to an increase of procedures for dentists? No. The only thing that will come from it is several follow up appointments to make sure the tooth is growing in correctly. I smell trouble. I smell mid-levels getting more power to administer these "easy" fixes.


Too bad I'm an optimist.
 
I won't ostracize you lol but it's good to know our tendencies. I know someone like this and I always keep them from making horrible decisions. For example: in 09 they thought the economy was falling apart based on the financial troubles and what some economic "futurists" said and were going to stop making payments on their home as it "didn't matter anymore". Fast forward to today and they still have their job and plan to go to hawaii next month for vacation. Good thing they didn't act on someones premonitions.

I don't think there will be any less caries in the future. I think the trend of increased lifespan and chronic disease will continue. I think this will be a high end procedure, even if it ever is allowed to occur in a human, and few people will opt for the stem cell therapy because the traditional procedures will be more affordable. The same way you don't see too many patients walking in and getting multiple implants when they find out they need a crown or RCT. Like fluoride, statins, antibiotics, vaccines, this too will be a revenue generator but the disease processes will continue and most likely increase as our life styles become even unhealthier.

Parklife said:
How ostracized will I be if I say yes?

Elaborate on that. Do you really think less carries and no need for implants will lead to an increase of procedures for dentists? No. The only thing that will come from it is several follow up appointments to make sure the tooth is growing in correctly. I smell trouble. I smell mid-levels getting more power to administer these "easy" fixes.


Too bad I'm an optimist.
Click to expand...
 
yappy said:
I won't ostracize you lol but it's good to know our tendencies. I know someone like this and I always keep them from making horrible decisions. For example: in 09 they thought the economy was falling apart based on the financial troubles and what some economic "futurists" said and were going to stop making payments on their home as it "didn't matter anymore".

I don't think there will be any less caries in the future. I think this will be a high end procedure, even if it ever is allowed to occur in a human, and few people will opt for the stem cell therapy because the traditional procedures will be more affordable. The same way you don't see too many patients walking in and getting multiple implants when they find out they need a crown or RCT.
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Oh. Well. Ok. That's good.

You don't think there will be any less caries in the future? So you don't think some pharma company will develop a better mouthwash, a better toothpaste, a better flossing method in the next 10 years?

That's just plain ostrich-headed friend!

Good guy greg meme:
70% of the world have no access to dental care.

doesn't make carry eliminating mouthwash to improve the lives of millions and make millions.


Come now yappy. you know better.
 
Parklife said:
Yeah 5 generations of dentists..nobody wants to live in the boonies. Come now, let's be realistic here. 🙄
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I'm an NHSC finalist. The boonies is exactly where I'm choosing to be. Unlike you, some individuals' passion is for the underserved rather than serving themselves.
 
Some will take advantage of it and most wont. I don't assume any company will do anything. However, my time in health care has showed me that patients don't do what is best for their own health. There is a small percentage that will take advantage of those things - but most people will not. And the ones that do are already taking care of their health through traditional means.

Sorry, Park. The world won't be saved. Bad stuff will still happen, a lot.

Just like the cardiologist who thought he would go out of business due to statins, patient education, and low fat everything, we too will maintain and be there to pick up the pieces.
 
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Parklife said:
Oh. Well. Ok. That's good.

You don't think there will be any less caries in the future? So you don't think some pharma company will develop a better mouthwash, a better toothpaste, a better flossing method in the next 10 years?

.
Click to expand...

The NIDCR thought they had a mouthwash cure over 40 years ago. They said it would be months. Here we are.
 
diasIItema said:
I'm an NHSC finalist. The boonies is exactly where I'm choosing to be. Unlike you, some individuals' passion is for the underserved rather than serving themselves.
Click to expand...

Tell me that when you have a family and kids of your own. Care is needed everywhere, not just the boonies. Calm down Dr. NHSC finalist.
 
yappy said:
Some will take advantage of it and most wont. I don't assume any company will do anything. However, my time in health care has showed me that patients don't do what is best for their own health. There is a small percentage that will take advantage of those things - but most people will not. And the ones that do are already taking care of their health through traditional means.

Sorry, Park. The world won't be saved. Bad stuff will still happen, a lot.

Just like the cardiologist who thought he would go out of business due to statins, patient education, and low fat everything, we too will maintain and be there to pick up the pieces.
Click to expand...

I'll bet that if you tell a patient there's a mouthwash that will prevent them from having to spend any money, they'll jump.

Sure hope you're right though. You guys are getting my hopes back up.

http://blogs.discovery.com/good_idea/2011/08/is-this-a-good-idea-robot-dentists.html
I'll give it a few months before I start this thread^ 🙄
 
Things like the De vinci robot have expanded surgical services not diminished them. A family member of mine had a minimally invasive surgery done that could not have been attempted with out it. You're looking at all these technological advances through the eyes that they're rendering you obsolete. However, experience shows that the principal practitioner or professional adapts with the technology and becomes more efficient and expands their practice capabilities creating more wealth. It's just another tool in their toolbox.

The De vinci is basically a really small knife that scales our large movements down to its little movements allowing the surgeon to do microscopic surgeries on fragile structures. Something like that in the dental world would be cool; however, I imagine it would be cost prohibitive.

EDIT: The patient might use the mouth wash if suggested for a while. People get lazy when things are going good. I remember once having to all but threaten a patient to go to the ER when his BP was 220/120. He said he didn't care and he wanted to ride it out even after explaining that he may die as he was showing signs of a hypertensive crises. People do dumb stuff all the time.


Parklife said:
I'll bet that if you tell a patient there's a mouthwash that will prevent them from having to spend any money, they'll jump.

Sure hope you're right though. You guys are getting my hopes back up.

http://blogs.discovery.com/good_idea/2011/08/is-this-a-good-idea-robot-dentists.html
I'll give it a few months before I start this thread^ 🙄
Click to expand...
 
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My opinion is this is way to premature to get excited over. Way too much work to be done before this can be perfected and undergo human trials and to see the long-term outcomes of this. Very interesting nonetheless.......
 
It sounds a bit alarming to think about; but when new developments, either preventive or curative develop in any health profession, the profession is not expected to just shrink. It adapts, evolves, survives.
 
Don't get too worked up over it. First of all, growing teeth will likely be a novelty as people will probably not have the finances to grow their own in several years. If you tell people, implant for $4k or I'll have a lab grow you one for $10k. Which will people pick? Plus, I doubt any insurance company would cover the service. Likely, only thing it will do is force insurance companies to accept implants as standard of care.

As for the caries eliminating mouthwash, any product is only good when it is used and other factors (diet, hygiene) are followed. As long as soda and candy exist in our world, there will be decay to restore. Plus the patients that would use the mouthrinse and do as they're told are the good ones that are usually decay free on their recall visits anyway...
 
Dental students and dentists.


Do you see the possibility of dentistry expanding? Do we learn enough in dental school to be innovative? I know, I know, but just let me know the possibility.


Bare with me. Bare with me here, but what if somewhere down the road, there is invented a magic sensation enhancer for the tongue. The wealthy bite. Will dentists/oral surgeons be able to effectively implant said sensation enhancer into the tongue? The ENT probably won't do that. It's more in the realm of dentists. Is that possible?

Somewhere down the road, the wealthy/people with weak teeth want stronger teeth. Do dentists have the knowledge of administering said strengthening gel?

Far fetched, I know, but I'm wondering more for the sake of CAN we adapt from a professional stand point. Extra classes count as adaption, but if that is sent over to some specialist, that's no good.

I'm speaking from the standpoint of a DDS btw. Not necessarily JUST your general dentist. An ortho, a perio, an endo, a prostho, OFMS etc.
 
The mouthwash drug series, added to toothpaste, along with mid-levels was admittedly a bit unnerving.

But I'm just not that worried about teeth grown from germs or robotics systems that allow my job to be outsourced to the Chinese lol (jk btw please don't explain to me why this wouldn't happen).
 
The ideas you're floating are ridiculous lol.


Parklife said:
Dental students and dentists.
Do you see the possibility of dentistry expanding? Do we learn enough in dental school to be innovative? I know, I know, but just let me know the possibility.


Bare with me. Bare with me here, but what if somewhere down the road, there is invented a magic sensation enhancer for the tongue. The wealthy bite. Will dentists/oral surgeons be able to effectively implant said sensation enhancer into the tongue? The ENT probably won't do that. It's more in the realm of dentists. Is that possible?

Somewhere down the road, the wealthy/people with weak teeth want stronger teeth. Do dentists have the knowledge of administering said strengthening gel?

Far fetched, I know, but I'm wondering more for the sake of CAN we adapt from a professional stand point. Extra classes count as adaption, but if that is sent over to some specialist, that's no good.

I'm speaking from the standpoint of a DDS btw. Not necessarily JUST your general dentist. An ortho, a perio, an endo, a prostho, OFMS etc.
Click to expand...
 
this is not something that overly worries me all that much. You would need someone with advanced training to administer and monitor this procedure most likely and it will be a high end boutique procedure compared to other treatments. The mouthwash seems like it could have a more significant impact on the profession as its so simple and foolproof compared to even brushing and flossing. This really only becomes a serious problem if you are taking out massive amounts of student or practice loans in the near future.
 
First of all, you can't expect to have people rub some lotion in their mouth and expect growth of perfect new teeth. I mean come on, if you are not a dental student don't bother talking about this. If you are, you should know that teeth growing in your mouth with random spacing is exceptionally bad for health. Hence, dentists will administer this if anyone would at all.
In fact, the moment they start selling this, I will opt for Ortho (I would now anyway) because I can only imagine the number of new cases that will arise.
Secondly, stem cells need to be customized to each patient. Otherwise they could be attacked by the patient's immune system. I would think this customization along with the administration of this supposed 'magic" drug to be well over 10K. A price no insurance company will be willing to pay, and not very many people can afford on their own.
Thirdly, this is not even tested on humans. Who knows what sort of Teratomas it can cause. By the way, how do they distinguish between a molar, premolar, and a Canine? would people need all their tooth pulled? could they get multiple sets of teeth? these are very serious questions to be answered.

As for the mouthwash, I could see it as more of a problem. Though I must say, bacteria changes and natural selection will make a nice MSRA version of S. mutans that will continue on the cavity wars. Also, these drugs can be considered antibiotics, I highly doubt they would put it in regular tooth brush. I mean, if they put it in the tooth brush, then their mouth wash products are obsolete, and if they put it in a mouthwash, their toothbrush products are obsolete.
Beside, weren't there Alcohol-based mouthwashes that used to kill bacteria? What happened to those? I think they were proven to be carcinogenic.

I was pretty worried about these products myself. But hey none of the companies have even conducted human trials. So why break a sweat over a possibility in far future. There have been numerous advancements for treating HIV or cancers announced in TVs, magazines, etc. Yet, there still is no magic bullet cure.

I think just two months ago that after years of research Roche lost opportunity to market a cardiovascular drug in the third stage clinical trials due to efficacy. This shows how developing a successful drug, and proving it safe and effective is hard.
 
Dentist wannabe said:
As for the mouthwash, I could see it as more of a problem. Though I must say, bacteria changes and natural selection will make a nice MSRA version of S. mutans that will continue on the cavity wars. Also, these drugs can be considered antibiotics, I highly doubt they would put it in regular tooth brush. I mean, if they put it in the tooth brush, then their mouth wash products are obsolete, and if they put it in a mouthwash, their toothbrush products are obsolete. The same could be said for fluoride. I think Colgate sells both products, so they could employ any drug they use in either or both.
Beside, weren't there Alcohol-based mouthwashes that used to kill bacteria? What happened to those? I think they were proven to be carcinogenic Aren't many mouthwashes alcohol based? Anyway, the idea is that this would target a specific bacteria, rather than broad range of bacteria. This would make the treatment effective even if used less frequently. That is assuming that the people who only brush once every couple days don't then decide to only brush once a week....

I was pretty worried about these products myself. But hey none of the companies have even conducted human trials.They have, but they are not completely through this step yet So why break a sweat over a possibility in far future I agree there is no reason to stress, but it would probably be a good idea to keep debt down.. There have been numerous advancements for treating HIV or cancers announced in TVs, magazines, etc. Yet, there still is no magic bullet cure.

I think just two months ago that after years of research Roche lost opportunity to market a cardiovascular drug in the third stage clinical trials due to efficacy. This shows how developing a successful drug, and proving it safe and effective is hard.
Click to expand...
.
 
DMDWANNABEE: This would make the treatment effective even if used less frequently. That is assuming that the people who only brush once every couple days don't then decide to only brush once a week....
Click to expand...

As far I could remember, Keep 32 is only good for a few hours.
I'm not so sure about Colgate -UCLA mouthwashes .
To reiterate my point, S.mutans isn't the only bacteria, so I assume as soon as it is gone, it would be replaced by another one.
Natural Selection is a beauty. Thank Darwin for coining the term.
 
Honestly, it's selfish and cynical for you to be upset by this if in fact dentists are overtrained and overeducated. If a dental therapist can provide equal care that a dentist can, then so be it. It'll be a better standard of living for everyone. It's more efficient. I'll pursue a different career. Hopefully they will work in underserved areas. Since dentists won't.

I mean, when the lightbulb was invented what happened to the candle stick maker? It sucks if you're a dental student, but I mean what can you really do?

IF dental therapists can HONESTLY provide equal care, then dentists are in the wrong - not the DT. The DT isn't making 150k a year btw. The DT is making what a hygienist makes. Maybe what will happen is DT and DH will have to work under a dentist - who will have to spend more time focusing on ortho and perio work. Now that'll suck for the specialized people, but what can you do?

Personally, I've had a lot of dental work done. I know it can be expensive. Fortunately, my parents were able to afford it without much trouble. Most people aren't that lucky.

The wealthy will go to the doctor and dentist. Everyone else the DT and nurse.

Dentistry is no longer a sure-fire way up to the upper-middle class. Now we'll see who's a sheep and whose a goat.
 
Parklife said:
Honestly, it's selfish and cynical for you to be upset by this if in fact dentists are overtrained and overeducated. If a dental therapist can provide equal care that a dentist can, then so be it. It'll be a better standard of living for everyone. It's more efficient. I'll pursue a different career. Hopefully they will work in underserved areas. Since dentists won't.

I mean, when the lightbulb was invented what happened to the candle stick maker? It sucks if you're a dental student, but I mean what can you really do?

IF dental therapists can HONESTLY provide equal care, then dentists are in the wrong - not the DT. The DT isn't making 150k a year btw. The DT is making what a hygienist makes. Maybe what will happen is DT and DH will have to work under a dentist - who will have to spend more time focusing on ortho and perio work. Now that'll suck for the specialized people, but what can you do?

Personally, I've had a lot of dental work done. I know it can be expensive. Fortunately, my parents were able to afford it without much trouble. Most people aren't that lucky.

The wealthy will go to the doctor and dentist. Everyone else the DT and nurse.

Dentistry is no longer a sure-fire way up to the upper-middle class. Now we'll see who's a sheep and whose a goat.
Click to expand...
Cool story bro. But wrong thread.
 
If someone is missing a tooth because of poor healthcare, AND they decide to get this new tooth, then I see this as more work for the dentist. If they have poor health care, this is another tooth for us to take care of. This is a living tooth, and thus will need the care of a dentist like all the other teeth. I see this as a great achievement for both patients and dentists.
 
It's funny, before I was in dental school and even during dental school, I saw this as a potential "sky is falling" type scenario. However, looking at it from a post-school perspective, growing teeth would be awesome for the profession.

The questions to ask yourself are:
Who is going to recommend having the tooth replaced?
Who is going to extract the old tooth?
Who is going to place the new tooth and be responsible for any bone grafts required?
Who is going to be responsible for any adjunctive orthodontics/periodontics required for getting the tooth placed properly in relation to the other teeth?
Who is going to be responsible for gathering DNA or material required for growing a new tooth?

"Growing a tooth" is an extremely complicated process and is going to require a dentist at every stage. This is a whole new potential revenue stream, and you can bet your bottom dollar that growing a new tooth is going to be WAY more expensive than placing an implant and a crown and will absolutely be a niche market - if it ever comes to fruition at all! People will opt for implants when they experience the sticker shock associated with growing a new tooth. Plus, trials in mice are one thing; good luck getting any kind of government approval on "growing teeth" and placing them into a human for another 20 years.
 
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OG1 said:
It's funny, before I was in dental school and even during dental school, I saw this as a potential "sky is falling" type scenario. However, looking at it from a post-school perspective, growing teeth would be awesome for the profession.

The questions to ask yourself are:
Who is going to recommend having the tooth replaced?
Who is going to extract the old tooth?
Who is going to place the new tooth and be responsible for any bone grafts required?
Who is going to be responsible for any adjunctive orthodontics/periodontics required for getting the tooth placed properly in relation to the other teeth?
Who is going to be responsible for gathering DNA or material required for growing a new tooth?

"Growing a tooth" is an extremely complicated process and is going to require a dentist at every stage. This is a whole new potential revenue stream, and you can bet your bottom dollar that growing a new tooth is going to be WAY more expensive than placing an implant and a crown and will absolutely be a niche market - if it ever comes to fruition at all! People will opt for implants when they experience the sticker shock associated with growing a new tooth. Plus, trials in mice are one thing; good luck getting any kind of government approval on "growing teeth" and placing them into a human for another 20 years.
Click to expand...

People will have severe gum ache, very true.
 
Settle down. There has been a cure out for hundreds of years.

It's called a toothbrush.

Dental caries is a preventable disease with a cure, yet there are lots of dentists around. I wonder why.
 
OG1 said:
It's funny, before I was in dental school and even during dental school, I saw this as a potential "sky is falling" type scenario. However, looking at it from a post-school perspective, growing teeth would be awesome for the profession.

The questions to ask yourself are:
Who is going to recommend having the tooth replaced?
Who is going to extract the old tooth?
Who is going to place the new tooth and be responsible for any bone grafts required?
Who is going to be responsible for any adjunctive orthodontics/periodontics required for getting the tooth placed properly in relation to the other teeth?
Who is going to be responsible for gathering DNA or material required for growing a new tooth?

"Growing a tooth" is an extremely complicated process and is going to require a dentist at every stage. This is a whole new potential revenue stream, and you can bet your bottom dollar that growing a new tooth is going to be WAY more expensive than placing an implant and a crown and will absolutely be a niche market - if it ever comes to fruition at all! People will opt for implants when they experience the sticker shock associated with growing a new tooth. Plus, trials in mice are one thing; good luck getting any kind of government approval on "growing teeth" and placing them into a human for another 20 years.
Click to expand...

I suppose I jumped the gun big time here. Now hopefully it will be a complicated enough process that a high school graduate with 2 years of education can't take my job from me. 🙄
 
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