Did you take off a month for Step 2?

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rocketbooster

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Some ppl take a month off for Step 2 while others just take it during an easy rotation. What'd you do for ophtho? I assume that I would do better on Step 2 if I took a month off, but I don't think I need it for my ophtho apps because 1) my Step 1 is probably good enough and 2) my home program said they don't even get applicant's Step 2s in time.

It would save me some time during 4th year if I don't have to take off time for Step 2, but at the sametime I don't want something to go unexpected and end up with a lower a score because I didn't take off time to study. By unexpected I mean suddenly many schools want Step 2 for some reason and then I have problems if taking it during a rotation hurt my score. Suggestions? Thanks.

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Still haven't taken Step 2 CK or CS. Am not taking time off now for it. I only had one program ask me about my step 2 score on the entire trail. Studying for step 2 now, after matching, sucks, so I would recommend taking it shortly after third year is over if you can fit it in your schedule. (Maybe take 2 weeks off if you think you need it, depending on your rotation schedule third year, ie if you finish third year with medicine, then just go ahead and take it.) It's hard to take much more time off than that because you need to do your home ophtho rotation, aways, etc. from July-September. If you think you score can go up (most people's do), then it will only help you.
 
Rocketbooster: Many threads discuss this concept, but I think a broad overview of application timeline and Step 2 scheduling may be helpful in making your decision.

When to take Step 2?

You will find many different opinions about when is the optimal time to take Step 2 CK. I believe this decision should be based on one main question: What can you do between June and August to best strengthen your application? I know it is frustrating to have such a broad answer, but I think that is the best answer, and it takes into consideration a few of the following factors: 1 – Step 1 score, 2 – away rotations, 3 – letters of recommendation, 4 – study time needed to do well
(please note that I am not giving score cutoffs…that is up to you/your mentor to determine into which category you best fit).

If you did great on Step 1, then Step 2 is somewhat less of a priority for ophthalmology applications. While other specialties may look more heavily on Step 2 performance, the reality is that Step 2 is not looked at nearly as carefully as Step 1 is for ophthalmology, largely because not everyone has taken Step 1 by the time they apply so it is difficult to compare performance between applicants. If you rocked Step 1, you will likely rock Step 2 (smart people are smart). If you are in this group, it may be a good idea to strengthen your application in other ways (research, away rotations, etc). In my opinion, someone that rocks Step 1 has more to lose by taking Step 2 early (May-July) than they have to gain by rocking it, so it might be best to take it after your application goes in.

If you did poorly on Step 1 but still think you have a shot at matching into ophthalmology, then your answer to the main question of how best to strengthen your application will likely be to improve your Step 2 score. Take it early enough that you will at least have a score that you can report to your potential programs by the time they start screening applications. If you get it to them when they have already invited for interviews, it is too late, as they likely already screened your application out by having a somewhat lower USMLE score than they typically invite. My recommended timeline would be to report your score by mid to late September or early October if you hope they will have it in time for reviewing your application. If you just want them to have it by the time you interview, then give yourself a month before the bulk of interviews take place to take the exam.

If you didn't rock Step 1 but you didn't do poorly either. Blast…welcome to the group in which most of us find ourselves, in the cluster of 1-2 standard deviations from the perpetually-increasing mean. Unfortunately, the decision isn't quite as clear for this group in my opinion. Again, what can you do to best strengthen your application?
Are you weak in research? Do a research rotation
Are you somewhat weak in clinical grades or have had little clinical exposure to ophtho clinically? Do an ophtho rotation
Will an away rotation at some other rotation be the best use of your time? Go away
Will a rotation at your home program and a subsequently awesome letter of recommendation be the best for you? Stay home
If at the end of the day you feel that doing well on Step 2 is the best use of your time to strengthen your application, then that's your answer.

Whenever you do decide to take Step 2, take into account how much time you needed to study for Step 1 and if you felt that was enough to do well. Were you ready for Step 1 in 2-3 weeks of hardcore studying? That might be all you need for Step 2, or even less. Did you need 4-6 weeks or more to really feel ready? Plan accordingly, but keep in mind, if you study for this much time during May-July/August, you are doing so at the expense of giving your all in some other area of application-strengthening, and it may be best to take Step 2 a bit later (after application goes in) so that you can submit your newly-strengthened application in other areas before you get your hardcore study on.

Sorry for the generalities, but you are unique (ahh precious) and the strategy of how to schedule your fourth year must also be unique. As evidence of this, among the four classmates from my school applying for ophtho, one took Step 2 in June, one in October, one in December, and one in January.

What was my story? I was in that blasted middle category of standard deviation clustering about the mean. I felt as though the time it would take me to study well enough to do well on Step 2 was not worth the application-strengthening of June-August, and thus chose to take Step 2 after my application had gone in. I did 8 weeks of research in June-July, sent in the application, did a month of ophtho at home program, then studied for Step 2 from mid-September to mid-October and took it the third week of October right before interviews started. I got my score back in enough time to be able to tell programs my score if they asked me at interviews. For what it's worth, however, out of the 13 interviews I did, I think only two asked about my Step 2 score.
 
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Rocketbooster: Many threads discuss this concept, but I think a broad overview of application timeline and Step 2 scheduling may be helpful in making your decision.

When to take Step 2?

You will find many different opinions about when is the optimal time to take Step 2 CK. I believe this decision should be based on one main question: What can you do between June and August to best strengthen your application? I know it is frustrating to have such a broad answer, but I think that is the best answer, and it takes into consideration a few of the following factors: 1 – Step 1 score, 2 – away rotations, 3 – letters of recommendation, 4 – study time needed to do well
(please note that I am not giving score cutoffs…that is up to you/your mentor to determine into which category you best fit).

If you did great on Step 1, then Step 2 is somewhat less of a priority for ophthalmology applications. While other specialties may look more heavily on Step 2 performance, the reality is that Step 2 is not looked at nearly as carefully as Step 1 is for ophthalmology, largely because not everyone has taken Step 1 by the time they apply so it is difficult to compare performance between applicants. If you rocked Step 1, you will likely rock Step 2 (smart people are smart). If you are in this group, it may be a good idea to strengthen your application in other ways (research, away rotations, etc). In my opinion, someone that rocks Step 1 has more to lose by taking Step 2 early (May-July) than they have to gain by rocking it, so it might be best to take it after your application goes in.

If you did poorly on Step 1 but still think you have a shot at matching into ophthalmology, then your answer to the main question of how best to strengthen your application will likely be to improve your Step 2 score. Take it early enough that you will at least have a score that you can report to your potential programs by the time they start screening applications. If you get it to them when they have already invited for interviews, it is too late, as they likely already screened your application out by having a somewhat lower USMLE score than they typically invite. My recommended timeline would be to report your score by mid to late September or early October if you hope they will have it in time for reviewing your application. If you just want them to have it by the time you interview, then give yourself a month before the bulk of interviews take place to take the exam.

If you didn’t rock Step 1 but you didn’t do poorly either. Blast…welcome to the group in which most of us find ourselves, in the cluster of 1-2 standard deviations from the perpetually-increasing mean. Unfortunately, the decision isn’t quite as clear for this group in my opinion. Again, what can you do to best strengthen your application?
Are you weak in research? Do a research rotation
Are you somewhat weak in clinical grades or have had little clinical exposure to ophtho clinically? Do an ophtho rotation
Will an away rotation at some other rotation be the best use of your time? Go away
Will a rotation at your home program and a subsequently awesome letter of recommendation be the best for you? Stay home
If at the end of the day you feel that doing well on Step 2 is the best use of your time to strengthen your application, then that’s your answer.

Whenever you do decide to take Step 2, take into account how much time you needed to study for Step 1 and if you felt that was enough to do well. Were you ready for Step 1 in 2-3 weeks of hardcore studying? That might be all you need for Step 2, or even less. Did you need 4-6 weeks or more to really feel ready? Plan accordingly, but keep in mind, if you study for this much time during May-July/August, you are doing so at the expense of giving your all in some other area of application-strengthening, and it may be best to take Step 2 a bit later (after application goes in) so that you can submit your newly-strengthened application in other areas before you get your hardcore study on.

Sorry for the generalities, but you are unique (ahh precious) and the strategy of how to schedule your fourth year must also be unique. As evidence of this, among the four classmates from my school applying for ophtho, one took Step 2 in June, one in October, one in December, and one in January.

What was my story? I was in that blasted middle category of standard deviation clustering about the mean. I felt as though the time it would take me to study well enough to do well on Step 2 was not worth the application-strengthening of June-August, and thus chose to take Step 2 after my application had gone in. I did 8 weeks of research in June-July, sent in the application, did a month of ophtho at home program, then studied for Step 2 from mid-September to mid-October and took it the third week of October right before interviews started. I got my score back in enough time to be able to tell programs my score if they asked me at interviews. For what it’s worth, however, out of the 13 interviews I did, I think only two asked about my Step 2 score.

Yea I'm like you ha. I'm right at the mean Step 1 and I should have a few first author pubs before then so I'm not really weak on research. My school requires us to take Step 2 by the end of September and I can't do an ophtho rotation until July.

When did you get your recs? Don't you need them in before sfmatch sends out your apps in early August? I can't really get my recs before late July since my rotation wont be before then. So regardless my step 2 won't be back before my apps anyway. My school doesn't let us freely pick our schedule so it's pretty annoying
 
It is actually fairly common for schools to have deadlines for taking Step 2. Your deadline of the end September actually is fairly reasonable and shouldn't be too much of a problem. Given your situation I would actually continue to do research and see if you can be involved in 3-5 or more projects by the time your application goes in. It is only January, and you have until August.

Are your first author publications ophtho-related? If not, then getting some ophtho research should be a priority in my opinion, especially as it seems you may be a little bit anxious about getting strong letters of recommendation. If you do ophtho-related research from now until June, you will have no problem at all having an attending that can vouch for your interest in the field, dedication, dependability, etc for a strong LOR. I ended up getting a LOR from an attending I worked with clinically for just 3 days in December of the year before I applied, but with whom I started doing several clinical research projects, writing textbook chapters, grants, etc. I would highly recommend this type of approach if I were in your shoes, and would probably have my schedule be research month in June (possibly get LOR from attending you've worked with on projects this spring and in June), ophtho clinical in July (hoping to get a LOR from an attending in this month), get application in at end of July/first weeks of August while doing some other rotation, and then take all of September to study for Step 2 CK or vice versa and study for/take Step 2 in August and do a rotation in September.

The main point here is that doing ophtho-related research is a good idea on so many levels, one of which being that it may give you more time working with an attending for them to get to know you and for you to get to learn from them than the few short hours chasing them around clinic as they busily see patients and you try not to get in the way. Furthermore, if the time arises that you need a phone call on your behalf, an attending that you know well will be much more inclined to make that call than someone with whom you only worked for one month in July.

I'm sure others that have matched would have even more valuable insights, so hopefully they will also add some thoughts. If not, I suppose I can continue to ramble.
 
Is there any reason to rock Step 2 after matching? Should I just be trying to pass it at this point? I guess my only concern is whether or not it will affect fellowship matches. I highly doubt it would.
 
It is actually fairly common for schools to have deadlines for taking Step 2. Your deadline of the end September actually is fairly reasonable and shouldn't be too much of a problem. Given your situation I would actually continue to do research and see if you can be involved in 3-5 or more projects by the time your application goes in. It is only January, and you have until August.

Are your first author publications ophtho-related? If not, then getting some ophtho research should be a priority in my opinion, especially as it seems you may be a little bit anxious about getting strong letters of recommendation. If you do ophtho-related research from now until June, you will have no problem at all having an attending that can vouch for your interest in the field, dedication, dependability, etc for a strong LOR. I ended up getting a LOR from an attending I worked with clinically for just 3 days in December of the year before I applied, but with whom I started doing several clinical research projects, writing textbook chapters, grants, etc. I would highly recommend this type of approach if I were in your shoes, and would probably have my schedule be research month in June (possibly get LOR from attending you've worked with on projects this spring and in June), ophtho clinical in July (hoping to get a LOR from an attending in this month), get application in at end of July/first weeks of August while doing some other rotation, and then take all of September to study for Step 2 CK or vice versa and study for/take Step 2 in August and do a rotation in September.

The main point here is that doing ophtho-related research is a good idea on so many levels, one of which being that it may give you more time working with an attending for them to get to know you and for you to get to learn from them than the few short hours chasing them around clinic as they busily see patients and you try not to get in the way. Furthermore, if the time arises that you need a phone call on your behalf, an attending that you know well will be much more inclined to make that call than someone with whom you only worked for one month in July.

I'm sure others that have matched would have even more valuable insights, so hopefully they will also add some thoughts. If not, I suppose I can continue to ramble.

Well I think my research is different than most. I feel most ppl have pubs that are case reports or clinical research. I soon will have 2 first author pubs. One is an ophtho case report under a big wig. The other is a base science project that I've been working on for 1.5 years haha. It's not ophtho but it is broad and relevant to many fields including ophtho. It's more about quality than quantity. Pretty sure it's better than a bunch of case reports and small clinical projects. That's why I think my research is pretty solid if that's all I finish with.

For recs I was thinking the big wig, another ophtho faculty I've been shadowing and research PI. She's a phd tho...think thats fine to get a rec considering I've worked in her lab for 2 years and getting a big paper out of it?

Also, my 4th year rotations tend to start late in the month and end in the middle of the next month. Would it be too late to do an away rotation during late September to mid October? I think I might have to do a non-ophtho required rotation during early September.
 
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Is there any reason to rock Step 2 after matching? Should I just be trying to pass it at this point? I guess my only concern is whether or not it will affect fellowship matches. I highly doubt it would.

I am wondering the same thing...
 
Well I think my research is different than most. I feel most ppl have pubs that are case reports or clinical research. I soon will have 2 first author pubs. One is an ophtho case report under a big wig. The other is a base science project that I've been working on for 1.5 years haha. It's not ophtho but it is broad and relevant to many fields including ophtho. It's more about quality than quantity. Pretty sure it's better than a bunch of case reports and small clinical projects. That's why I think my research is pretty solid if that's all I finish with.

For recs I was thinking the big wig, another ophtho faculty I've been shadowing and research PI. She's a phd tho...think thats fine to get a rec considering I've worked in her lab for 2 years and getting a big paper out of it?

Also, my 4th year rotations tend to start late in the month and end in the middle of the next month. Would it be too late to do an away rotation during late September to mid October? I think I might have to do a non-ophtho required rotation during early September.
Rocketbooster: From what I understand from your post, you are hoping to get 1 letter from your "big wig," 1 letter from a faculty member you have been shadowing, and 1 letter from your PhD research PI.

Keep in mind that while there is no absolute rule on from whom you get letters, the San Francisco Match CAS Instruction Manual (downloadable on the website) states, "Three (3) ORIGINAL letters of reference are required for review by the programs. No more, no less. It is recommended that residency applicants provide one letter from a core rotation."

I would encourage you to follow that SF Match recommendation and only submit 2 ophtho letters and 1 letter from a core rotation. That means you will need to choose which of your current potential letters not to send. In your case it would probably be best to submit the research PI letter as one of your letters, even though she is a PhD. I imagine having worked with her for "1.5 years" that she knows you best. She will undoubtedly vouch for your efforts in her lab, which may help provide you with opportunities to discuss your research in your interviews. The flipside of that is that she will not be able to mention your clinical acumen, interactions with patients, etc. If you do decide to use her letter, you should try to get to know your "big wig" well enough between now and July that he/she can not only give their stamp of approval on you as a potential resident, but also speak to your clinical abilities. I would suggest doing what you can to ensure that your "big wig" letter says everything that your other letter from the physician you are shadowing would say, as this will be your only opportunity to have an ophtho letter speak to your clinical abilities, given that you plan on using the other letter from your PhD mentor which will speak to your research.

With reference to your comments about your 2 first-author publications. We and many others could go on and on debating about whether quality is more important than quantity when it comes to publications. While there is no right answer to this debate, the fact remains that the entire last page of the CAS application is dedicated to "Research activities, papers, and/or additional information." Nowhere is there a column for "Impact Factor" or anything to allow you to demonstrate the "quality" of the research in the CAS application, except perhaps the biographical sketch. Yes, you will have that opportunity in an interview, but unless your paper is a first-author basic science publication in "Cell," Science," or "Nature," the faculty member will see the citation and think, "Hmmm, cool, he/she has a basic science first-author publication in some journal." If that entire page-long box has just that and a case-report, he/she may be impressed, but a similar scores/grades applicant with more "quantity" may be given greater consideration. Don't get me wrong, your pubs are awesome, but be careful about being lulled into a false sense of security because of the "quality" of the projects, and keep in mind also that clinical projects are not necessarily all quantity and no quality. Yes, they take less time typically, but can still be very high quality. I bet with as capable and proactive an applicant as you appear, that with a bit of effort you can find a few clinical projects to work on between now and July and feel even more comfortable that your combination of quality and quantity will ensure great interviews and a great match.
 
Rocketbooster: From what I understand from your post, you are hoping to get 1 letter from your "big wig," 1 letter from a faculty member you have been shadowing, and 1 letter from your PhD research PI.

Keep in mind that while there is no absolute rule on from whom you get letters, the San Francisco Match CAS Instruction Manual (downloadable on the website) states, "Three (3) ORIGINAL letters of reference are required for review by the programs. No more, no less. It is recommended that residency applicants provide one letter from a core rotation."

I would encourage you to follow that SF Match recommendation and only submit 2 ophtho letters and 1 letter from a core rotation. That means you will need to choose which of your current potential letters not to send. In your case it would probably be best to submit the research PI letter as one of your letters, even though she is a PhD. I imagine having worked with her for "1.5 years" that she knows you best. She will undoubtedly vouch for your efforts in her lab, which may help provide you with opportunities to discuss your research in your interviews. The flipside of that is that she will not be able to mention your clinical acumen, interactions with patients, etc. If you do decide to use her letter, you should try to get to know your "big wig" well enough between now and July that he/she can not only give their stamp of approval on you as a potential resident, but also speak to your clinical abilities. I would suggest doing what you can to ensure that your "big wig" letter says everything that your other letter from the physician you are shadowing would say, as this will be your only opportunity to have an ophtho letter speak to your clinical abilities, given that you plan on using the other letter from your PhD mentor which will speak to your research.

With reference to your comments about your 2 first-author publications. We and many others could go on and on debating about whether quality is more important than quantity when it comes to publications. While there is no right answer to this debate, the fact remains that the entire last page of the CAS application is dedicated to "Research activities, papers, and/or additional information." Nowhere is there a column for "Impact Factor" or anything to allow you to demonstrate the "quality" of the research in the CAS application, except perhaps the biographical sketch. Yes, you will have that opportunity in an interview, but unless your paper is a first-author basic science publication in "Cell," Science," or "Nature," the faculty member will see the citation and think, "Hmmm, cool, he/she has a basic science first-author publication in some journal." If that entire page-long box has just that and a case-report, he/she may be impressed, but a similar scores/grades applicant with more "quantity" may be given greater consideration. Don't get me wrong, your pubs are awesome, but be careful about being lulled into a false sense of security because of the "quality" of the projects, and keep in mind also that clinical projects are not necessarily all quantity and no quality. Yes, they take less time typically, but can still be very high quality. I bet with as capable and proactive an applicant as you appear, that with a bit of effort you can find a few clinical projects to work on between now and July and feel even more comfortable that your combination of quality and quantity will ensure great interviews and a great match.

Ok thanks for the advice. How many research items are you suggesting to fill out? I still have a presentation I did on my earlier research that I'll add so that's 3 listings. I did research before med school too in 2 different labs but didn't get any pubs except one was used in a poster. I could potentially just list them as 2 separate research experiences. I hear that most ppl include their undergrad research too. So that'd be 5 if I use those...do they count?

And yea that'd be cool to do more ophtho research but no bets yet. My program pretty much only has case report projects to offer.
 
As I mentioned above, the application asks for "Research activities, papers, and/or additional information," so if you consider it to be one of those, feel free to put it in. Totally your call. I have only seen a handful of applications, so I am not really sure what most applicants include. One of my citations was from undergrad, but I imagine if I had more from undergrad I would have entered them as well, space permitting. The other applications I have seen filled up the empty space by putting a few lines in between each citation and a few sentences describing their involvement in the project, which also seems like a good way to do it. That big space is yours to fill however you wish (within the guidelines of course).

If I were you and had one case report, a couple poster presentations, and a basic science project that spanned 1.5 years, I would elaborate in 2-4 sentences after the citation on the significance of that basic science project, especially if it wasn't ophtho-related. Be sure to emphasize your role in the project, the skills you learned, and the significance of the research as you already mentioned. I don't believe it is disingenuous at all to emphasize the stuff you want them to know and to give them something to talk about with you. Stay humble and don't be arrogant in how you say it or how you display your credentials, but also don't be too shy to portray your skillset and the projects you have worked so hard to complete. If you have enough stuff to fill in the space without adding explanations, then do just that. Less is more in this case and a whole list of citations will speak for itself.

Keep in mind a heirarchy of relevance as you put info into the application (for you and the others reading this). This is only the way that I did it, and I'm sure there are many others that did it differently and were very successful in their approach.

Chronology - It says to list in chronological order, though I chose to list in reverse chronological order (most recent listed first). Nobody mentioned it in interviews and I liked the look of it better.
Publications - actually published
Manuscripts in press - already gone through peer-review and accepted for publication but not yet published
Manuscripts submitted - not yet been accepted but has been officially submitted
Manuscripts in preparation - all the other handful of projects you will have that are in the works but not submitted when you turn in your application. This category basically means that you're working on it but doesn't say anything as to how close it is to being submitted or published; this is another reason to try and wrap things up before you submit your application.
Posters at national meetings - with those you presented taking precedence over those somebody else presented
Posters at local meetings - same as above
Non peer-reviewed articles - I would probably put this here, though if it has actually been published, maybe put it higher with publications

Lastly, one thing to consider for everyone out there is momentum. Are you the 49ers or Ravens and are hitting the Superbowl with momentum or did you peak early in the season? Did you finish the last few months/year before you applied showing an increase in involvement and interest in ophtho that is evidenced by your application showing you completed some research projects right before you applied? OR did you get some stuff done in undergrad, maybe one small project in summer between MS1 and MS2 and then coast?

I can only speak to my classmates that I saw match, and not to the other hundreds that matched, but I know that my classmates all had some solid research momentum heading into interviews. Not to say that all had manuscripts that were just recently accepted when they interviewed, but all had taken some time during the months before applications to really build up momentum for that last page of the application. I personally believe it helped them in interviews to have some fresh, recent ophtho research to be able to discuss with interviewers if asked.

Everyone else that has input please please add a comment or two. I feel lonely offering advice knowing that so many qualified and incredible friends/colleagues undoubtedly have valuable suggestions we can all learn from.
 
Ok thanks for the advice. What about doing an away ophtho rotation during late Sept to mid Oct? Is that too late to be of any help? Ill have to do my home ophtho rotation, Step 1 and another non ophtho required rotation before if I stick with my current schedule. Thanks.
 
Ok thanks for the advice. What about doing an away ophtho rotation during late Sept to mid Oct? Is that too late to be of any help? Ill have to do my home ophtho rotation, Step 1 and another non ophtho required rotation before if I stick with my current schedule. Thanks.

That is when I did my away rotation. It was perfect IMHO. I had learned enough ophtho to be comfortable asking appropriate questions and handling lenses. The attending's I worked with seemed interested in me because I was the only student working in the clinic at that time (everyone else had done an earlier rotation). I felt like I was able to stay 'fresh' in their mind for interview season. My earliest interview was Oct 22, so I did not have to miss any clinic time to go for an interview. And best of all, the program I did my away at ended up being my #1 and I was fortunate enough to match there!

One downside, many programs have already screened applications at this time, and they may not realize you are doing an away until you show up. Then you have to weasel your way into an interview :)
 
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