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#dental4life

#dental4life

Pre-Dental = dental school try-hards :D
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  1. Pre-Dental
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Just wondering. Any general dentists netting 400k for 5 years out of dental school? ( general dentists only, not specialists)
 
Highly unlikely! I know some general dentists who make that much and it took them 15 years and they were running 2 practices and working 60 hours a week.
 
I built my 2-ops practice from scratch for $80K as soon as I got my license in 2000. 1st year net $175k, 2nd year net $250k, 3rd year net $325k, and so on. It's nearly impossible to repeat when you now have $500k debt by the time you graduate from dental school. I can only stress to go to the absolute cheapest school and read up on 'The Millionaire Next Door.'

Also read up on this latest thread from dentaltown...

http://www.dentaltown.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=214&t=224555&v=1
 
Daurang said:
I built my 2-ops practice from scratch for $80K as soon as I got my license in 2000. 1st year net $175k, 2nd year net $250k, 3rd year net $325k, and so on. It's nearly impossible to repeat when you now have $500k debt by the time you graduate from dental school. I can only stress to go to the absolute cheapest school and read up on 'The Millionaire Next Door.'

Also read up on this latest thread from dentaltown...

http://www.dentaltown.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=214&t=224555&v=1
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i just threw up a little...in my mouth
 
NDPitch said:
Holy CRAP.

Sadly, this is where all schools are heading. Start pinching your pennies boys and girls. Most of the dentists on that thread are essentially saying "Good luck to you". $520k? They will most likely feel the effects of that for the rest of their life.
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Yup society is stupid period
 
Daurang said:
I built my 2-ops practice from scratch for $80K as soon as I got my license in 2000. 1st year net $175k, 2nd year net $250k, 3rd year net $325k, and so on. It's nearly impossible to repeat when you now have $500k debt by the time you graduate from dental school. I can only stress to go to the absolute cheapest school and read up on 'The Millionaire Next Door.'

Also read up on this latest thread from dentaltown...

http://www.dentaltown.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=214&t=224555&v=1
Click to expand...

I know a lot of school that are only 250k or so
 
C'mon guys, something just doesn't add up and I think we should just be cautious. Point one, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone but 500k is not too bad and no guarantee in making money afterwards cuz if that was the case, banks wont lend you money if u cant make it back fast. Point two, i see a lot of predental people telling others not to go into dentistry and do business instead and saying things like you can make more in business etc... Think about it, why the hell would be go to dental school himself? My point is sometimes people just dont want u to be awesome.
 
#dental4life said:
C'mon guys, something just doesn't add up and I think we should just be cautious. Point one, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone but 500k is not too bad and no guarantee in making money afterwards cuz if that was the case, banks wont lend you money if u cant make it back fast. Point two, i see a lot of predental people telling others not to go into dentistry and do business instead and saying things like you can make more in business etc... Think about it, why the hell would be go to dental school himself? My point is sometimes people just dont want u to be awesome.
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Just stop.

Oh, and just an fyi, banks don't lend you money for dental school. The government controls almost all student loans, and they couldn't care less what the ROI on your degree is. Also, yes, 500k IS that bad.
 
TheWeeIceMan said:
Just stop.

Oh, and just an fyi, banks don't lend you money for dental school. The government controls almost all student loans, and they couldn't care less what the ROI on your degree is. Also, yes, 500k IS that bad.
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Dude, there are MANY dental schools that are NOT 500k...plus med schools and law school tuitions are rising too so either you go to dental school and be a dentist or just stfu, dont need your sassiness here. Everyone who is going to dental school is in this "problem" together, not just you.Thank you
 
#dental4life said:
Dude, there are MANY dental schools that are NOT 500k...plus med schools and law school tuitions are rising too so either you go to dental school and be a dentist or just stfu, dont need your sassiness here. Thank you
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I don't think I ever said that there weren't less expensive dental schools. I just find your whole "OMG u guyz, can I make 3 million dollars with 5% overhead 6 days after I graduate?" pretty grating.

Researching potential careers is a perfectly good thing to do. However, imo, you are focusing on the wrong things at this stage in your education and making some pretty bold assertions that are off base.
 
TheWeeIceMan said:
I don't think I ever said that there weren't less expensive dental schools. I just find your whole "OMG u guyz, can I make 3 million dollars with 5% overhead 6 days after I graduate?" pretty grating.

Researching potential careers is a perfectly good thing to do. However, imo, you are focusing on the wrong things at this stage in your education and making some pretty bold assertions that are off base.
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Just to clarify, i never said I wanted to make 3 mil. I am asking questions like these cuz i want to find a job that fits me. I like money, helping people, nice cars, i decent size houses etc... I dont think I can have my lifestyle if i was making 40k a year. That is the reason why i make things bold and try to be as exact as possible, I know there is not promises and its a different story for everyone. I just want to know in general.
 
#dental4life said:
Just to clarify, i never said I wanted to make 3 mil. I am asking questions like these cuz i want to find a job that fits me. I like money, helping people, nice cars, i decent size houses etc... I dont think I can have my lifestyle if i was making 40k a year. That is the reason why i make things bold and try to be as exact as possible, I know there is not promises and its a different story for everyone. I just want to know in general.
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Here's the key concept that you NEED to grasp if you want to make a "good" living as a dentist.

As a dentist, will you more than likely be making an amount per year that will put you in the top 5% of earners out there once you've been at it for a few year? yes

As a dentist, will you more than likely be able to afford to do some things "easier" than the average person/family out there(i.e. take your kids for a week at Disney each year and NOT have it be a major financial burden on your household expenses, save a good amount of money for your retirement and your kids college funds, live in a "nice" house, not worry about the cost when your car needs a decent amount of service work, not worrying about the cost of new sporting gear or musical instruments for your kids, etc) - yes

As a dentist, will you certainly be driving around in a 75k car or have one of the largest houses in your community or have a lifestyle that closely mimics that of a professional athlete or a Hollywood star? Maybe, but probably not

The reality is that without financial discipline, both with your home finances and also with how you run your office, you could very well end up on a percentage basis, being one of the top few percent of earners in the country and at the same time still have major debt and/or bankruptcy issues

The key is being mature enough and also disciplined enough to have long term financial stability be a higher priority than short term financial splurges
 
Ferneezy said:
<30% overhead as a GP?

are you a wizard?
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Less than 30% is really difficult, unless there is no or very minimal competition, with dead cheap real estate and close to minimum wages for your staff, the 2 big cost in overhead.

I have 3 locations in a city of about 2 million people. The average overhead is 40%. Anything under would really mean you are very aggressive and picky about small savings; for example comparing a box of gloves that cost $6, and going with $5. Or using dental assistants still in training as volunteers at your office and not paying them. Doctors who has 1 assistant versus 2, and do their own hygiene and not hire dental hygienist. Basically targeting every little expense to its minimal.

Yes, numbers add up, I could fire couple of my assistants and bring my overhead to 35%, and find a way to cut more cost and save another 5%. But I'm not the type who would go that far. Those who do, Kudos to them! 🙂
 
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Cold Front said:
Less than 30% is really difficult, unless there is no or very minimal competition, with dead cheap real estate and close to minimum wages for your staff, the 2 big cost in overhead.

I have 3 locations in a city of about 2 million people. The average overhead is 40%. Anything under would really mean you are very aggressive and picky about small savings; for example comparing a box of gloves that cost $6, and going with $5. Or using dental assistants still in training as volunteers at your office and not paying them. Doctors who has 1 assistant versus 2, and do their own hygiene and not hire dental hygienist. Basically targeting every little expense to its minimal. Yes, numbers add up, Kudos to them! 🙂
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The average overhead nationwide is about 60-65%. Check out Paragon practice transitions and the numbers bear this out. If you want to totally rip off your staff, pay them minimum wage, and give them (practically) no benefits, then you can get the overhead very low. But what kind of staff retention or office reputation will you have if you do that? Realistically, an OH of 60% is what most general dentists will achieve with a good office.
 
Cold Front said:
Less than 30% is really difficult, unless there is no or very minimal competition, with dead cheap real estate and close to minimum wages for your staff, the 2 big cost in overhead.

I have 3 locations in a city of about 2 million people. The average overhead is 40%. Anything under would really mean you are very aggressive and picky about small savings; for example comparing a box of gloves that cost $6, and going with $5. Or using dental assistants still in training as volunteers at your office and not paying them. Doctors who has 1 assistant versus 2, and do their own hygiene and not hire dental hygienist. Basically targeting every little expense to its minimal.

Yes, numbers add up, I could fire couple of my assistants and bring my overhead to 35%, and find a way to cut more cost and save another 5%. But I'm not the type who would go that far. Those who do, Kudos to them! 🙂
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if i remember, you have an associate or two in the fold. how do they factor into your overhead?

i imagine materials costs go up because that's another dentist performing procedures in your shop. does their pay count against your overhead? or is it more like a +70% to revenue?
 
Whenever a financial thread pops up I remember how lucky sdn is to have contributors like @Daurang , @Cold Front , @DrJeff , @Shunwei , @charlestweed

Dental grads would be wise to pool this group's collective advice/knowledge as they come out of school.
 
Ferneezy said:
if i remember, you have an associate or two in the fold. how do they factor into your overhead?

i imagine materials costs go up because that's another dentist performing procedures in your shop. does their pay count against your overhead? or is it more like a +70% to revenue?
Click to expand...

<30% is very very difficult to achieve but remember he said that he has two chairs and only one assistant (he didn't even mention the front desk). If his lease is low, with no advertising/marketing and with a busy schedule including some high end procedures I can see it happening.

As for an associate, I think the success of having one is kind of like an associate looking for a good office to work in: it's a crapshoot sometimes. Some associates frankly suck being either too slow or too limited in what they can do (no extractions, endo, dentures), or they ask for too much in ways of compensation. Therefore, you can't put an increase in any % of revenue because you don't know what to expect. All you can really count on is a decrease in overhead, since the space and assts (assuming its possible to share them), marketing, are the same. But that's exactly why corporate operates the way they are: packing as many dentists into an office as possible, but I am not a fan of this as it introduces many ore problems as well.
 
Shunwei said:
<30% is very very difficult to achieve but remember he said that he has two chairs and only one assistant (he didn't even mention the front desk). If his lease is low, with no advertising/marketing and with a busy schedule including some high end procedures I can see it happening.

As for an associate, I think the success of having one is kind of like an associate looking for a good office to work in: it's a crapshoot sometimes. Some associates frankly suck being either too slow or too limited in what they can do (no extractions, endo, dentures), or they ask for too much in ways of compensation. Therefore, you can't put an increase in any % of revenue because you don't know what to expect. All you can really count on is a decrease in overhead, since the space and assts (assuming its possible to share them), marketing, are the same. But that's exactly why corporate operates the way they are: packing as many dentists into an office as possible, but I am not a fan of this as it introduces many ore problems as well.
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When do you think it becomes worth hiring an associate? I feel that there is a lot of politics, and patient 'dumping', slacking and all other sort of B.S. that comes with hiring any employee. There is also the risk of that associate stealing your patients and setting up practice near you.
 
Miley Cyrus. said:
When do you think it becomes worth hiring an associate? I feel that there is a lot of politics, and patient 'dumping', slacking and all other sort of B.S. that comes with hiring any employee. There is also the risk of that associate stealing your patients and setting up practice near you.
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Absolutely there is politics, anytime you add a personality there is added interpersonal politics. Good thing about being an owner is that you always have the final day. So if something goes south, you can always make the last call and get your way.

As for stealing patients, you can always build an ironclad no compete, that's not the worry. If I were to get an associate 2-3 years from how (as is my plan), my main concerns would be office chemistry, how much the associate can produce, his quality of work and patient management, and his repertoire. The worst is getting a run-of-the-mill journeyman veteran who doesn't do many things, has an attitude, and causes office strife. Typically I would use enafe old formula of seeing how many active patients I have, divide that by 300, to see how many doc days there are per week. If there are 7-8 doc days, I would seriously consider getting at least a part time associate.
 
Ferneezy said:
if i remember, you have an associate or two in the fold. how do they factor into your overhead?

i imagine materials costs go up because that's another dentist performing procedures in your shop. does their pay count against your overhead? or is it more like a +70% to revenue?
Click to expand...
Yes, I have associates. I made one of them a minor shareholder in one of my locations, and he gets paid through profit sharing (after regular overhead).

Materials cost goes up if you go through Henry Schein, and similar middle-man companies. Typically about 3% a year. If you buy directly from supplier, you save a lot of $$$. My offices use net32.com.
 
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