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Unlikely . look at match statistics . Even IMGs are getting residencies with the 200-220 range.


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Batman's Underwear said:
I do not have great step 1 score, and I saw someone mentioned that most programs now have the cut-off score of 220 for step 1.

Is this true?
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Who mentioned this? The average step score is barely above this 220 cut off you speak of so I can't imagine why "most" programs would do this.
 
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no one said most programs do (they do not not). But something in the range of 25% of programs claim to have a cut-off for step 1 and it is often 220 for the better programs, but 200 would be more common. This is not something new, it has been the case for quite some years. You would do well to make sure you have a good step 2 CK score and have passing scores in CS available at the time you apply. Most psychiatry programs take a big picture approach, and while board scores are the most important part of the application in general, they will look at your clerkship grades, med school of origin, letters of recommendation, publications/presentation, teaching/leadership abilities and experience, any other notable achievements, commitment to psychiatry and your personal statement.

I am bolding commitment to specialty because a crappy step 1 score and no clear commitment to psychiatry will kill your application. whereas if there is lots of evidence of you being interested in psychiatry in spite of (not because of) your step 1 score, your app will be looked upon more favorably. Only 65% of surveyed PDs cited step 1 scores as a significant factor in ranking applications.
 
A low step 1 will not kill you, even at several top-10 places, as long as the rest of your application is strong. I suspect that med school name and strong performance on step 2 help a lot in regards to getting your app a second look.

Heck, even other parts of your app can be weak as long as there's an upward trend and something compelling about you.
 
splik said:
no one said most programs do (they do not not). But something in the range of 25% of programs claim to have a cut-off for step 1 and it is often 220 for the better programs, but 200 would be more common. This is not something new, it has been the case for quite some years. You would do well to make sure you have a good step 2 CK score and have passing scores in CS available at the time you apply. Most psychiatry programs take a big picture approach, and while board scores are the most important part of the application in general, they will look at your clerkship grades, med school of origin, letters of recommendation, publications/presentation, teaching/leadership abilities and experience, any other notable achievements, commitment to psychiatry and your personal statement.

I am bolding commitment to specialty because a crappy step 1 score and no clear commitment to psychiatry will kill your application. whereas if there is lots of evidence of you being interested in psychiatry in spite of (not because of) your step 1 score, your app will be looked upon more favorably. Only 65% of surveyed PDs cited step 1 scores as a significant factor in ranking applications.
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I am currently a 4th year, and I couldn't decide what I really wanted until the end of my 3rd year clerkship rotations. I am definitely interested in psychiatry but it is very difficult to show commitment to psychiatry since I joined very late. I have been talking to a psych research PI but I won't be able to produce any results before the application seasons. I have started doing some volunteer works in the field but again, I only can do it for 5 months till the application season.

What do you suggest to convey my genuine interest in psychiatry objectively?
 
splik said:
no one said most programs do (they do not not). But something in the range of 25% of programs claim to have a cut-off for step 1 and it is often 220 for the better programs, but 200 would be more common. This is not something new, it has been the case for quite some years. You would do well to make sure you have a good step 2 CK score and have passing scores in CS available at the time you apply. Most psychiatry programs take a big picture approach, and while board scores are the most important part of the application in general, they will look at your clerkship grades, med school of origin, letters of recommendation, publications/presentation, teaching/leadership abilities and experience, any other notable achievements, commitment to psychiatry and your personal statement.

I am bolding commitment to specialty because a crappy step 1 score and no clear commitment to psychiatry will kill your application. whereas if there is lots of evidence of you being interested in psychiatry in spite of (not because of) your step 1 score, your app will be looked upon more favorably. Only 65% of surveyed PDs cited step 1 scores as a significant factor in ranking applications.
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Can confirm. I have directly witnessed someone getting ranked low for appearing to have developed interest in psychiatry only after scoring poorly on Step 1.

65% sounds like a lot to me though.
 
Batman's Underwear said:
I am currently a 4th year, and I couldn't decide what I really wanted until the end of my 3rd year clerkship rotations. I am definitely interested in psychiatry but it is very difficult to show commitment to psychiatry since I joined very late. I have been talking to a psych research PI but I won't be able to produce any results before the application seasons. I have started doing some volunteer works in the field but again, I only can do it for 5 months till the application season.

What do you suggest to convey my genuine interest in psychiatry objectively?
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Can you squeeze in some psych electives prior to application time? That's what I did. It was pretty effective. No one ever doubted my interest even though I was president of the Pathology Interest Group early on in medical school. Are their interest groups or other student clubs you can join? The research and volunteer work are great steps that you can mention as experiences in your ERAS, stick with them.
 
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Seroquelled said:
Can you squeeze in some psych electives prior to application time? That's what I did. It was pretty effective. No one ever doubted my interest even though I was president of the Pathology Interest Group early on in medical school. Are their interest groups or other student clubs you can join? The research and volunteer work are great steps that you can mention as experiences in your ERAS, stick with them.
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I have Psych AI and one Psych elective scheduled before September. Do you recommend adding another psych elective?
 
Batman's Underwear said:
I do not have great step 1 score, and I saw someone mentioned that most programs now have the cut-off score of 220 for step 1.

Is this true?
Click to expand...

I can be impressively anxious at times, but even this doesn't appeal to my neuroses as being remotely tempting to consider as possible. Life is about more than just #'s. Remember that these programs are not going to want to work with a number. They want to work with a person. Imagine being stuck with some weirdo for 4 years simply because his/her Step 1 score was nice.

It'd be like picking a 10/10 hottie for a spouse--despite the fact that they could be a complete psycho or an exceptionally boring individual. Rule of thumb says don't marry a 10/10 anyway. Just like I've never met someone with 260+ on Step 1 who wasn't at least a little off. Marry the 6-8/10 who is likely more well-rounded and more likely long-term relationship material.

I think Program Directors in psych are going to be the least likely to fall into the trap of getting hot and bothered about #'s alone. A psychological aptitude is something that can't be taught or tested in medical school very easily. It's a bred state of mind that takes years to cultivate, and they will look in other areas of the application, especially the interview, to find "it". Good programs will be looking for "it". And if you've got "it", I think the goal is just to not sabotage with some red flag a program's ability to see "it".


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I do find it how comparable step 1 scores have a better chance of matching into IM compared to psych yet the latter has a lower mean.
 
NRP said:
I do find it how comparable step 1 scores have a better chance of matching into IM compared to psych yet the latter has a lower mean.
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Furthermore if you check out the Charting Outcomes 2016 USMLE Step 1 bar graphs table for psychiatry, and you do the math for the % not matching in each Step 1 score range (e.g., 201-210, 211-220, 221-230), you'll see that the % not matching in every category is roughly the same. This means Step 1 scores are not the things truly keeping people out.


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What counts as a strong commitment to psychiatry?
 
Not to derail this thread, but honestly what Step 1 scores put you into a really good spot for some of the top programs? I have a 238 and I'm just curious where this would even put me. I really have no idea what may be a reach or not. Thanks!
 
FranzLO said:
Not to derail this thread, but honestly what Step 1 scores put you into a really good spot for some of the top programs? I have a 238 and I'm just curious where this would even put me. I really have no idea what may be a reach or not. Thanks!
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That score wouldn't hurt you for any programs but it would depend on the rest of your application. I don't know if there's necessarily a score past which the rest of your application can be weaker and it wouldn't matter to top programs.


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FranzLO said:
Not to derail this thread, but honestly what Step 1 scores put you into a really good spot for some of the top programs? I have a 238 and I'm just curious where this would even put me. I really have no idea what may be a reach or not. Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
NRP said:
What counts as a strong commitment to psychiatry?
Click to expand...

Doing electives/sub-in in psych, reference letters from psychiatrists, attending psych meetings (e.g. APA), being a member of APA, doing any type of research in psych, such as a case report/presenting a poster, volunteering in mental health clinics
 
FranzLO said:
Not to derail this thread, but honestly what Step 1 scores put you into a really good spot for some of the top programs? I have a 238 and I'm just curious where this would even put me. I really have no idea what may be a reach or not. Thanks!
Click to expand...
>240 is top quartile. >260 is top 10%. (Of psych applicants.)
 
FlowRate said:
>240 is top quartile. >260 is top 10%. (Of psych applicants.)
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uhhh psych is a lower tier specialty, 4 percent of people score above 260 nationally. Which means that you somehow thing the top 4 percent of usmle takers are dominated by future psychiatrists...moral of the story is dont make up absurdly incorrect statistics
 
a_flei said:
uhhh psych is a lower tier specialty, 4 percent of people score above 260 nationally. Which means that you somehow thing the top 4 percent of usmle takers are dominated by future psychiatrists...moral of the story is dont make up absurdly incorrect statistics
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They were asking about top programs. The statistics for psychiatry, generally, are obviously much lower and readily available via the NRMP.

This is true of other specialties, as well. The top programs in peds, FM, IM, and psychiatry have more in common with the average derm program than they do with the average program in their specialty. (In terms of applicant scores/qualifications.)
 
Program each does their own thing when it comes to step score. Per PD: The program at Yale reviews every application and they are happy to overlook a low step when the application is strong otherwise. Maybe spend less time worrying about the already overcooked rice when you need to impress your guest with a whole meal. If you love psych, it'll show in your evaluations, letters, and interview, which are much more important than step score as you can see from the survey of PDs.
 
Letters of rec go a long way as does better performance on step 2.

I got under a 220 and have research in a more competitive field. I'm getting interviews.
 
Despite having a low step 1 score (21X), I'm doing great myself in terms of interviews but not getting much interviews in California or West Coast. How are all of you counteracting the low step 1 scores when talking to program directors? Where are you finding these cut offs?
 
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