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- Thread starter UncleChester78
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PsychNPguy I enjoy reading your posts. Why are you planning on quitting? Burnout?
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The quickest way is to attend a direct entry program where you get your RN and psych NP license all in one program. This is what I did. Common schools that house these programs are: Vanderbilt, Boston College, Yale, Penn, Columbia, UCSF, Seattle U, OHSU, MGH Institute, etc.
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I looked up ohsu’s prices for their programs, and their direct entry route costs are rather obscure, but if I do some guessing, I think it’s safe to say that by combining the cost of their accelerated BSN ($57,000) with their price for their psyche NP program ($70,000), that comes out to $127,000. I think it’s safe to say that’s how they price it because they require you to do their accelerated 5 quarter BSN and then you jump right into the NP program, and I don’t see why they would separate the cost any. Granted, ohsu be muy spendy for anyone who graces their halls, but that’s likely to be what you’d see at a lot of direct entry NP programs. That is just for school, and doesn’t count what it costs to live on while you eat ramen in expensive Portland Oregon.
In essence it’s similar to many of the more expensive PA programs. I used psyche NP as an example even though an FNP there costs the same, and did that because the psyche NP actually has a decent chance at timely repayment. I hear horror stories that new grad FNPs are taking jobs for $80k or less near me, and at that rate, it seems like direct entry at a place like OHSU for that would put one in debt forever... PA kind of debt (I know one PA that is over $200k in debt). I also know nurses that paid $80k for their BSN, which blows me away. When I was looking at PA school, I put off my feelings toward the debt I was going to incur because I had tunnel vision, obsessing over getting in. When I was faced with the opportunity to become an RN for <$,9000, and then have my hospital pay for my BSN while I made $75,000 a year plus overtime, I didn’t even go to any more PA interviews. All PA school could offer me was lots of debt, and lots of lost income... to the tune of over $200,000 (I think it actually was more like $280,000... lost income while in PA school for 2 years x $60,000 in my previous healthcare job, relocation, school at $85,000 to $130,000, and living expenses for 2 years). I decided to instead use a modest portion of that money to buy a house, and I went to RN school while I worked full time, and then got the bachelors in nursing after that for free by my hospital paying for it. I’ll graduate NP school and get all my loans paid off by the national health service corp. I’d pay them off right now, but in order to be reimbursed by the national health service corp, you have to run a student loan balance. I may not get it, but I don’t know anyone who legitimately met all the qualifications that didn’t get it. Most states are hurting for psyche prescribers. If I need to, I’ll just cut a fat check to pay it off, or consider other financial arrangements.
So that’s a long response, but it lays out a cheaper way to roll. On the flip side, time is money. I can see some value in just hitting it hard and going the direct entry rout and hitting the workforce in swift fashion. A lot of PAs have that mindset, and I had that mindset when I wanted to be a PA. The value of doing direct entry over Pa school is that you might be able to work as an RN while you do your NP work. I do see the value in an accelerated BSN, even if it’s expensive, as long as you are sure to keep on trucking to get your NP. What I think is a better and faster route is to get your accelerated BSN, and then shop around for a cheaper NP program. Instead of $70,000 for your NP at OHSU where they basically tack in a very expensive NP degree on top of a fairly expensive private accelerated BSn, just jump out after your BSN and go to $30,000 Np school. They are out there, and many are very good. Save $40,000. Make $75,000 a year as an RN while you do it. My guess is that at the direct entry program, it’s tough to work full time, which is what it takes to make $75,000 as a new RN. If you want to be an FNP, I definitely wouldn’t pay top dollar for the privelage of graduating to make $90,000 working 5 days a week.
As psycheNpguy said, pay attention to the economics. Looking back in the thread I see we are talking about psyche, and not every state pays super well to any Nps. And some states that do pay well have cost of living that can be high for the high paying areas.
It’s easy to get tunnel vision and think that costs will be recouped once you hit the labor force. There are physicians, physical therapists, dentists, PAs, and the occasional NP (NPs that paid top dollar for their degrees), that can tell you that reality is a lot more complicated. Debt is a common factor behind why many folks are struggling behind the scenes with very little liquid cash. It’s not that an investment in yourself through education is a bad one, but you have to be prepared to have the payoffs arrive on terms that you don’t dictate.
In essence it’s similar to many of the more expensive PA programs. I used psyche NP as an example even though an FNP there costs the same, and did that because the psyche NP actually has a decent chance at timely repayment. I hear horror stories that new grad FNPs are taking jobs for $80k or less near me, and at that rate, it seems like direct entry at a place like OHSU for that would put one in debt forever... PA kind of debt (I know one PA that is over $200k in debt). I also know nurses that paid $80k for their BSN, which blows me away. When I was looking at PA school, I put off my feelings toward the debt I was going to incur because I had tunnel vision, obsessing over getting in. When I was faced with the opportunity to become an RN for <$,9000, and then have my hospital pay for my BSN while I made $75,000 a year plus overtime, I didn’t even go to any more PA interviews. All PA school could offer me was lots of debt, and lots of lost income... to the tune of over $200,000 (I think it actually was more like $280,000... lost income while in PA school for 2 years x $60,000 in my previous healthcare job, relocation, school at $85,000 to $130,000, and living expenses for 2 years). I decided to instead use a modest portion of that money to buy a house, and I went to RN school while I worked full time, and then got the bachelors in nursing after that for free by my hospital paying for it. I’ll graduate NP school and get all my loans paid off by the national health service corp. I’d pay them off right now, but in order to be reimbursed by the national health service corp, you have to run a student loan balance. I may not get it, but I don’t know anyone who legitimately met all the qualifications that didn’t get it. Most states are hurting for psyche prescribers. If I need to, I’ll just cut a fat check to pay it off, or consider other financial arrangements.
So that’s a long response, but it lays out a cheaper way to roll. On the flip side, time is money. I can see some value in just hitting it hard and going the direct entry rout and hitting the workforce in swift fashion. A lot of PAs have that mindset, and I had that mindset when I wanted to be a PA. The value of doing direct entry over Pa school is that you might be able to work as an RN while you do your NP work. I do see the value in an accelerated BSN, even if it’s expensive, as long as you are sure to keep on trucking to get your NP. What I think is a better and faster route is to get your accelerated BSN, and then shop around for a cheaper NP program. Instead of $70,000 for your NP at OHSU where they basically tack in a very expensive NP degree on top of a fairly expensive private accelerated BSn, just jump out after your BSN and go to $30,000 Np school. They are out there, and many are very good. Save $40,000. Make $75,000 a year as an RN while you do it. My guess is that at the direct entry program, it’s tough to work full time, which is what it takes to make $75,000 as a new RN. If you want to be an FNP, I definitely wouldn’t pay top dollar for the privelage of graduating to make $90,000 working 5 days a week.
As psycheNpguy said, pay attention to the economics. Looking back in the thread I see we are talking about psyche, and not every state pays super well to any Nps. And some states that do pay well have cost of living that can be high for the high paying areas.
It’s easy to get tunnel vision and think that costs will be recouped once you hit the labor force. There are physicians, physical therapists, dentists, PAs, and the occasional NP (NPs that paid top dollar for their degrees), that can tell you that reality is a lot more complicated. Debt is a common factor behind why many folks are struggling behind the scenes with very little liquid cash. It’s not that an investment in yourself through education is a bad one, but you have to be prepared to have the payoffs arrive on terms that you don’t dictate.
In light of the rest of the world paying top dollar for their undergraduate degrees in subjects like journalism, business, political science, etc, and other folks paying out the nose for masters degrees in business, or getting a law degree, I really see nursing degrees in whatever form (RN or NP) as excellent investments by comparison, independent of other factors. I’m a practical guy, and I think it’s hot when folks have degrees in engineering, accounting, and other degrees that aren’t half baked. I’d go so far as to seriously avoid a biology degree for anyone who isn’t an excellent student that will go on to apply successfully to a professional school. It’s just not worth it to have a bio degree if you don’t have the grades to move on in fluid fashion to a program in optometry, medicine, PT, PA, or dentistry. There are few appealing backups for folks that don’t have good grades.
Being an Rn is a nice place to visit, but a hard place to stay, at least from my perspective. It’s been good to me, but it’s a means to an end for most folks I run with.
Being an Rn is a nice place to visit, but a hard place to stay, at least from my perspective. It’s been good to me, but it’s a means to an end for most folks I run with.
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Yes but you also have to think about the opportunity costs (years of lost PMHNP salary) when going a slower route. Most "good" schools offer substantial scholarships as well (those at academic medical centers w/grant funding, lots of mental health grants for trainees these days, etc). My program was over 6 figures on paper but many of us received 30k+ grants and also worked part-time as RNs to pay things down. I was a nurse corps scholar so I didn't pay for my last two years of grad school and frankly, I think psych NPs are very competitive applicants for nurse corps/NHSC because mental health is by definition high need/provider shortage almost everywhere.
I mean maybe avoid Columbia, from what I understand that program is stupidly expensive plus NYC isn't exactly cheap.
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Direct NP school carries similar costs as PA school. The only reason I don’t put direct entry NP school in the same category in my mind is because at least you have a point where you obtain an RN along the way (handy if you think life is going to get in the way of doing school in one sitting). And DE-Np school is about a year longer. But you come out with the ability to be an independent provider. To me that means something.
But it’s clear to me that one can fashion their own education plan that mimics the DE programs out there, and it can be done a lot cheaper, and closer to home. The formula is: accelerated BSN+ NP program (and do so as quickly as possible with as little gap between RN and NP). If you can do it cheap, you are that much farther ahead. For me, the difference i saved was the cost of a nice house where I am. Getting through faster would have increased that margin, but I had other priorities.
I’m trying to think of who I would recommend direct entry Np school to now that I think I’ve cracked the code, and I can’t think of a situation where I would.
But it’s clear to me that one can fashion their own education plan that mimics the DE programs out there, and it can be done a lot cheaper, and closer to home. The formula is: accelerated BSN+ NP program (and do so as quickly as possible with as little gap between RN and NP). If you can do it cheap, you are that much farther ahead. For me, the difference i saved was the cost of a nice house where I am. Getting through faster would have increased that margin, but I had other priorities.
I’m trying to think of who I would recommend direct entry Np school to now that I think I’ve cracked the code, and I can’t think of a situation where I would.
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I made this decision myself last year. I looked around the country at all the direct entry options, but I couldn't justify the expense based on the economic layout of my present situation, where I own a house here in Florida and pay the mortgage/bills via roommates. So I'm finishing up my accelerated BSN this summer, and that's where my next puzzle needs to be solved. In Florida, there are only a couple of PMHNP programs, the closest one being 2 hours away from me. My partner is starting nursing school too, and will be busy for another 15 months doing that. I want to leave Florida, most likely live in Washington State (dozens of reasons). I can't figure out the order of operations to execute the "best" plan:
Work for a year as a psych RN here in Florida, (the well known worst state for working in mental health care/getting good mental health care... they keep drilling that into me, "50 out of 50 in the country!") then sell my house and move where I want? BUT then I am screwed for at least one year trying to get in state tuition to wherever I move, so I can attend a good psych program. The other option is to stay in my current situation, stay miserable in FL, and apply to the closest program-- which requires me to find my own preceptors (but costs ~40k instead of ~80k at other schools I'd prefer to attend). It's a difference between staying and working and being educated in a location I don't want to be in for 4-5 years, or getting out next year but not being an NP yet, and having to be educated elsewhere and having to establish in-state tuition.
We all have opinions, I'd love to hear you guys' as to what route you'd take. @AnnoyedByFreud , I PM'ed you late last year, I'm not sure if you missed it, or you opted out of talking to me. haha. In any case, I need to get psych NP degree and start working, I have goals to accomplish and I'm not a spring chicken anymore! Program recommendations? Is Pacific Northwest a wise move for psych? I will never return to the south again. It's not worth it. No offense to any southern health care providers!
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My bad! Feel free to re-message me. I do get messages and sometimes I don't get to them, sorry. Yes, Pacific NW is great. Independent practice, good pay, etc. OHSU (in Portland) and Seattle U are two of the direct entry programs I know of. I'm very happy with my decision to do direct entry, but I didn't want to have to apply twice and it ended up making a lot of financial sense because I was awarded large scholarships.
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well said and actually very accurate in all respects. Viewing this post many years later 😛