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That is a broad question that will be defined differently by many people. What do YOU want in a program? What do YOU think you need to learn to be an anesthesiologist or reach your career goals? Every program will have things they do really well. And they will have things that they could do better.
 
asu_admit said:
I'm planning to apply to anesthesiology residency programs and have been doing research. I wanted to ask you all- which programs that you know of are best and why? Thank you!
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Here is my list for the Midwest. I'm leaving out a program in Chicago but I'm sure at least 1 belongs on my list. Please remember these are NATIONAL rankings mostly and there are plenty of very very good Midwest programs like Ohio State, Wisconsin, etc not on my list:

1. WashU
2. Mayo
3. Michigan
4. Pitt
 
BLADEMDA said:
Here is my list for the Midwest. I'm leaving out a program in Chicago but I'm sure at least 1 belongs on my list. Please remember these are NATIONAL rankings mostly and there are plenty of very very good Midwest programs like Ohio State, Wisconsin, etc not on my list:

1. WashU
2. Mayo
3. Michigan
4. Pitt
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Agree with this list. Can confirm Ohio state is good, we have had some of their grads. Our Cleveland Clinic grads are always strong.
 
Cleveland Clinic is a solid program. The nice thing about the consortium is they have excellent systems in place as it pertains to support and resources. All you have to do is ask and you get support. Plus a strong respected department. You just need a strong work ethic and you will be rewarded.
 
narcusprince said:
Cleveland Clinic is a solid program. The nice thing about the consortium is they have excellent systems in place as it pertains to support and resources. All you have to do is ask and you get support. Plus a strong respected department. You just need a strong work ethic and you will be rewarded.
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In this day and age "strong work ethic" isn't always easy to come by. From what I've seen most Med students want it easy and that definitely isn't the Cleveland Clinic.
In my day, residents had to work hard and long hours. The Cleveland Clinic model was the standard model for many residency programs. These days it is considered a "work horse" program and some top med students (Step 1 over 235) may avoid it for that reason alon

To those of you interviewed at the Cleveland Clinic...
 
does Cleveland Clinic have a list of current residents with what medical schools they went to? I was curious and couldn't find a list online. Many (most?) programs usually have class by class lists of residents and where they went to medical school that you can easily find online.
 
Mman said:
does Cleveland Clinic have a list of current residents with what medical schools they went to? I was curious and couldn't find a list online. Many (most?) programs usually have class by class lists of residents and where they went to medical school that you can easily find online.
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Interesting. When I applied they had a list of everyone and there were a lot of international and caribbean grads.
 
Psai said:
Interesting. When I applied they had a list of everyone and there were a lot of international and caribbean grads.
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it was full of FMGs when I interviewed a long time ago and I didn't even rank them on my list
 
I don’t know any other details about CCF, but we have consistently had enough really strong grads from them that the name will get someone a leg up if we have a stack of comparable resumes to hire from.
 
asu_admit said:
I'm happy to work hard and learn as much as I can. Be the best I can be. You make a good point. Thank you.
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You asked for a list of top tier programs so I provided it to you. Cleveland Clinic is midtier despite IMG/FMGs, DOs, etc because they work you hard and expose you to just about everything. If your board scores are average Cleveland Clinic should be on your list (provided you can tolerate the Cleveland weather). MGH, Duke, UCSF, etc are all "better programs" but I doubt they produce better Anesthesiologists than Cleveland Clinic.

CCF is a work horse program so better get ready to be worked hard.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Here is my list for the Midwest. I'm leaving out a program in Chicago but I'm sure at least 1 belongs on my list. Please remember these are NATIONAL rankings mostly and there are plenty of very very good Midwest programs like Ohio State, Wisconsin, etc not on my list:

1. WashU
2. Mayo
3. Michigan
4. Pitt
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Is Pittsburgh considered Midwest? I always thought that was East Coast.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Here is my list for the Midwest. I'm leaving out a program in Chicago but I'm sure at least 1 belongs on my list. Please remember these are NATIONAL rankings mostly and there are plenty of very very good Midwest programs like Ohio State, Wisconsin, etc not on my list:

1. WashU
2. Mayo
3. Michigan
4. Pitt
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Interviewed at all of the above programs a couple of years ago (except didn't apply to Mayo) and agree with Blade's list. The 4 programs listed, along with Northwestern and UChicago, probably comprise the top programs in the Midwest in terms of match competitiveness.

Michigan has a resident union and their residents are very well paid considering cost of living in the area. I believe CA-1 salary there is around 65k.

Other Midwest programs I liked: Indiana (graduates seemed to get great job offers within the state in private practice) and University of Kentucky in Lexington (great didactic curriculum).
 
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Iowa, Indiana and even Kentucky-Lexington would be on my midtier program list.

OP needs to decide if his or her application is competitive enough for the top tier programs.
 
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@Psai, It’s in PA. To me that’s East Coast. But I don’t really care one way or another. Charleston is on the Atlantic right? So that would make it Lower East Coast to me.
How do y’all classify these things anyway?
 
In terms of national reputation, top programs: Michigan, WashU, Pitt, Northwestern, UChicago

Other very solid programs:
Wisconsin, Iowa, Cincinnati, U of Kentucky, Cleveland Clinic, Ohio State, Indiana
 
BLADEMDA said:
Here is my list for the Midwest. I'm leaving out a program in Chicago but I'm sure at least 1 belongs on my list. Please remember these are NATIONAL rankings mostly and there are plenty of very very good Midwest programs like Ohio State, Wisconsin, etc not on my list:

1. WashU
2. Mayo
3. Michigan
4. Pitt
Click to expand...
I interviewed at #1 and #3 last year and honestly loved them both. I ranked them 2 and 1 respectively. Sadly I did not match at either one (though it's probably better this way) and ended up next on my list at another "solid mid-tier" Midwest program that's been mentioned in here. My program is honestly probably a better fit for me despite my rank list. I am exceptionally happy with my current training and my program.
 
Lets not forget that great programs also turn out some of the best cluster **** creators in our field. Don't be one of those people that envelope themselves in the great reputation of their program while personally practicing like a *****. Your future patients and colleagues will thank you.
 
My comment was made because I came from a program not named here because it will never be named by the academic powerhouses because that isn’t what it was. I really think it is a gem, because starting very early there is a great deal of autonomy with sick patients. I admit my bias, but when I picked a residency, I picked a place that I wanted to let me learn to care for very sick adult. Mission accomplished.
 
Physio Doc 2 Be said:
My comment was made because I came from a program not named here because it will never be named by the academic powerhouses because that isn’t what it was. I really think it is a gem, because starting very early there is a great deal of autonomy with sick patients. I admit my bias, but when I picked a residency, I picked a place that I wanted to let me learn to care for very sick adult. Mission accomplished.
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That's great. Your program is the type of "gem" others should seek out especially those with average Step 1 scores. The older I get the more convinced I become that those who work hard and get really good case exposure plus volume during residency will do just fine in the real world.
 
Physio Doc 2 Be said:
My comment was made because I came from a program not named here because it will never be named by the academic powerhouses because that isn’t what it was. I really think it is a gem, because starting very early there is a great deal of autonomy with sick patients. I admit my bias, but when I picked a residency, I picked a place that I wanted to let me learn to care for very sick adult. Mission accomplished.
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Tbh I think that name is very overrated and the famous prestige places aren't the best place to be to become a total badass
 
Regarding the name of a program I've come to realize some places are "dead" before outsiders know about it or even care to admit it.

With that being said I do believe a big name may lead to certain benefits - getting an interview, getting the benefit of the doubt, networking opportunities to other fields, connections for publications.

Some people want these. Some people don't.

But like @BLADEMDA pointed out if one is incompetent then it won't matter what program he/she graduated from.

"Oh hey, yeah you loved one had a tough airway and didn't make it. But did you see where I graduated from?"

@asu_admit someone framed it to me this way: there are many programs that would work and a lot fewer programs that would be a wrong fit. Avoid the wrong fit ones.
 
Having just retired from Mayo Rochester, I’m biased, but here goes.

Residents are very happy
Great “small town atmosphere” (107,000)
Great training experience (I did residency there)
Good name to have on resume and LOR’s
Cold weather, though.
CRNA ‘s get you out (for lecture and relief)
Resident-friendly staff
Etc
 
Dejavu said:
Having just retired from Mayo Rochester, I’m biased, but here goes.

Residents are very happy
Great “small town atmosphere” (107,000)
Great training experience (I did residency there)
Good name to have on resume and LOR’s
Cold weather, though.
CRNA ‘s get you out (for lecture and relief)
Resident-friendly staff
Etc
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When can I sign up?
 
I'm very much of the opinion that many academic powerhouses and the like are loaded with fellows and that definitely detracts from resident experience. Especially if these places have "good" fellowships, that means the fellow is most likely doing rather than supervising, which means the resident isn't doing jack****. Not to mention, these kind of places also have a bazillion fellows in every specialty (transplant, thoracic, neuro, in addition to the ACGME ones), so it's not just a few cases that get poached. I went to a mid-tier program where it was just me and the attending in CDH repairs, pneumonectomies, aneurysm clippings, spinal cord stims, congenital heart parturients, LVADs, lung and heart transplants, etc etc, and I can say for a fact that when I went to do fellowship at a name program that some of the finishing CA-3s were on the same level I was at as a midyear CA-2.
 
vector2 said:
I'm very much of the opinion that many academic powerhouses and the like are loaded with fellows and that definitely detracts from resident experience. Especially if these places have "good" fellowships, that means the fellow is most likely doing rather than supervising, which means the resident isn't doing jack****. Not to mention, these kind of places also have a bazillion fellows in every specialty (transplant, thoracic, neuro, in addition to the ACGME ones), so it's not just a few cases that get poached. I went to a mid-tier program where it was just me and the attending in CDH repairs, pneumonectomies, aneurysm clippings, spinal cord stims, congenital heart parturients, LVADs, lung and heart transplants, etc etc, and I can say for a fact that when I went to do fellowship at a name program that some of the finishing CA-3s were on the same level I was at as a midyear CA-2.
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Very important. I had a fantastic CV fellowship but it definitely limited the experience of the residents.

The flip side to that argument is such cases (especially highly complex cardiac and Peds cardiac) should probably be managed by a fellowship grad in the year 2018. There was a time where residents got sufficient exposure at certain programs, but I think those days are largely in the rear. It would be hard for a new grad to find such a job anyway (and they probably wouldn’t want one) that’s in a semi-desirable area.
 
AdmiralChz said:
Very important. I had a fantastic CV fellowship but it definitely limited the experience of the residents.

The flip side to that argument is such cases (especially highly complex cardiac and Peds cardiac) should probably be managed by a fellowship grad in the year 2018. There was a time where residents got sufficient exposure at certain programs, but I think those days are largely in the rear. It would be hard for a new grad to find such a job anyway (and they probably wouldn’t want one) that’s in a semi-desirable area.
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I'd argue that it doesn't matter what you want to do with your life, doing bigger cases as a resident is helpful learning experience. I don't do off pump double lung transplants as an attending but I'm glad I got to do them as a resident.
 
AdmiralChz said:
Very important. I had a fantastic CV fellowship but it definitely limited the experience of the residents.

The flip side to that argument is such cases (especially highly complex cardiac and Peds cardiac) should probably be managed by a fellowship grad in the year 2018. There was a time where residents got sufficient exposure at certain programs, but I think those days are largely in the rear. It would be hard for a new grad to find such a job anyway (and they probably wouldn’t want one) that’s in a semi-desirable area.
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I think there is more than enough time in residency to do all the cases and learning that fellows are now doing. How many bariatrics or ortho days do you really need?
 
Mman said:
I'd argue that it doesn't matter what you want to do with your life, doing bigger cases as a resident is helpful learning experience. I don't do off pump double lung transplants as an attending but I'm glad I got to do them as a resident.
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I was just presenting the flip side argument. Doesn’t mean I agree with it (and I don’t), but these arguments are presented when you interview at such programs.

I trained at a place where fellows were nearly all supervision except Pain which was great for my training.
 
AdmiralChz said:
I trained at a place where fellows were nearly all supervision except Pain which was great for my training.
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I trained at a big famous name with good fellowships, but there were so many cases that residents had no shortage of excellent cases for themselves. Plus the fellows weren't really taking overnight call much so all the after hours stuff was for residents. For example, didn't hurt my feelings to have a fellow doing a AVR/MVR in one room while I was doing a type A dissection next door.

I think from an interviewee point of view, you just have to ask residents about their case volumes. Makes no difference whether there are fellows or not, just depends on what you are actually doing. The only thing my residency didn't give me was high volume of pediatrics. We did the really little ones and the weird crazy ones, but not the volume that some other places get. I saw enough to realize I didn't want to do peds for a living.
 
This discussion makes me smile, because I still believe that the best gig in anesthesiology is ASC, after Pain.

So I would go to a place with outstanding training in regional anesthesia and/or high chances of getting into a pain fellowship, and I would do a fellowship for anything else I fell in love with. The bread and butter community stuff can be learned in most residencies anyway.
 
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Current CCF resident, just feel like I should correct some of the posts on here about our program. Interns average about 40 hours / week with rare 16 hour call + 7 months in the anesthesia department. Hours increase from there to ~55/week as a CA3. RARELY in OR past 5pm (you get paid $45/hour for every hour past 5:30PM)[I've turned in about 4 hours in 4 years], precall days home by 2:30, ALWAYS post call days off. Intern and CA1 take PACU GENA call (come in at 4, cover PACU, sleep, go home with day off). CA2 call can be busy only due to OLT and its the only year you can be stuck in those. CA3 call you start cases with CRNAs/residents, pre op and create plans, give breaks as needed, help with lines, etc. (feels a lot like being a staff). I guess that's "work horse" but imagine many staff/PP jobs require more of you.

We run about 120 OR's / day with cases running until 9-10PM most nights. Our patients are SICK. You learn very quickly how to manage very critically ill patients. It is not uncommon for interns to be doing kidney transplants supervised 1:2. Any given day there can be 3-4 crani's running simultaneously totalling 8-10/day. All department section heads assign residents preferred cases and we can always request assignments ahead of time. No fellows in GENA OR's. I did 14 OLT's and have 19 classmates. Lap liver resections are commonplace (probably done 30-40). Plenty of awake intubations on ENT.

CTA has 20 OR's, with A, B, and C round cases most days. CA2s are there to do lines, learn (lecture/study/OR teaching), and are out of OR at 3PM everyday to do pre ops for the next day (though this can be a burden). CA3s sit own cases and have a month of only TEE. Most residents will do 50+ CPB cases at the end of CA2 year.

Regional starts as an intern and can do as much or as little as you prefer. Elective months for CA3s you can do 8-16 blocks/day at some sites. I've logged >300 PNBs, >100 spinals, >100 epidurals. Current PD working to expand electives to other hospitals in and out of state (possibly out of country).

The resources we have are par none. TEE simulation, bronch sim, cadaver courses (stick cadavers with needles, practice chest tubes, etc), prestigious research institute, academic moneys, call moneys, conference moneys, iphone with unlimited data, new drugs, new toys, in house moonlighting, disability insurance negotiated to the CCF rate (its low). I take for granted that we have about 10 bronchoscopes for the main OR's that we are allowed to use electively for "practice."

The PD is a huge advocate for the residents and actively changes/addresses issues as they arise. For instance, ended cardiac (medicine) ICU due to long hours/high call volume and replaced it with floor consults (8A - 4P). Residents wanted more Pediatric experience so restarted our rotation at Akron Children's Hospital (more PP model - do 14 ENT cases/day if you want). He has fought hard to keep us in IR for 1 month doing tunneled lines/hickmains/ports/pigtails. We have a half day of academic time EVERY week on Thursday meaning you are unassigned from duties for half of the day to work on fellowship/job apps, research, study, logging cases, etc.

In basically every fellowship, we have prominent and well-known staff for LOR, mentorship, etc.

In brief, I do not think its fair to call CCF a mid-tier program with other programs such as IU, Ohio State, and Cincinatti. We may not be #1 hospital in America but I don't think you'll feel the experience was lacking and it certainly isn't fair to call us mid tier because we are perceived to work more than some. If you want to learn anesthesia and set yourself up for success, I don't know that you'll find a better place in the Midwest. And I promise you Cleveland is not as bad as it sounds, even with Lebron and Johnny Manziel gone.
 
PropAlfenta said:
Current CCF resident, just feel like I should correct some of the posts on here about our program. Interns average about 40 hours / week with rare 16 hour call + 7 months in the anesthesia department. Hours increase from there to ~55/week as a CA3. RARELY in OR past 5pm (you get paid $45/hour for every hour past 5:30PM)[I've turned in about 4 hours in 4 years], precall days home by 2:30, ALWAYS post call days off. Intern and CA1 take PACU GENA call (come in at 4, cover PACU, sleep, go home with day off). CA2 call can be busy only due to OLT and its the only year you can be stuck in those. CA3 call you start cases with CRNAs/residents, pre op and create plans, give breaks as needed, help with lines, etc. (feels a lot like being a staff). I guess that's "work horse" but imagine many staff/PP jobs require more of you.

We run about 120 OR's / day with cases running until 9-10PM most nights. Our patients are SICK. You learn very quickly how to manage very critically ill patients. It is not uncommon for interns to be doing kidney transplants supervised 1:2. Any given day there can be 3-4 crani's running simultaneously totalling 8-10/day. All department section heads assign residents preferred cases and we can always request assignments ahead of time. No fellows in GENA OR's. I did 14 OLT's and have 19 classmates. Lap liver resections are commonplace (probably done 30-40). Plenty of awake intubations on ENT.

CTA has 20 OR's, with A, B, and C round cases most days. CA2s are there to do lines, learn (lecture/study/OR teaching), and are out of OR at 3PM everyday to do pre ops for the next day (though this can be a burden). CA3s sit own cases and have a month of only TEE. Most residents will do 50+ CPB cases at the end of CA2 year.

Regional starts as an intern and can do as much or as little as you prefer. Elective months for CA3s you can do 8-16 blocks/day at some sites. I've logged >300 PNBs, >100 spinals, >100 epidurals. Current PD working to expand electives to other hospitals in and out of state (possibly out of country).

The resources we have are par none. TEE simulation, bronch sim, cadaver courses (stick cadavers with needles, practice chest tubes, etc), prestigious research institute, academic moneys, call moneys, conference moneys, iphone with unlimited data, new drugs, new toys, in house moonlighting, disability insurance negotiated to the CCF rate (its low). I take for granted that we have about 10 bronchoscopes for the main OR's that we are allowed to use electively for "practice."

The PD is a huge advocate for the residents and actively changes/addresses issues as they arise. For instance, ended cardiac (medicine) ICU due to long hours/high call volume and replaced it with floor consults (8A - 4P). Residents wanted more Pediatric experience so restarted our rotation at Akron Children's Hospital (more PP model - do 14 ENT cases/day if you want). He has fought hard to keep us in IR for 1 month doing tunneled lines/hickmains/ports/pigtails. We have a half day of academic time EVERY week on Thursday meaning you are unassigned from duties for half of the day to work on fellowship/job apps, research, study, logging cases, etc.

In basically every fellowship, we have prominent and well-known staff for LOR, mentorship, etc.

In brief, I do not think its fair to call CCF a mid-tier program with other programs such as IU, Ohio State, and Cincinatti. We may not be #1 hospital in America but I don't think you'll feel the experience was lacking and it certainly isn't fair to call us mid tier because we are perceived to work more than some. If you want to learn anesthesia and set yourself up for success, I don't know that you'll find a better place in the Midwest. And I promise you Cleveland is not as bad as it sounds, even with Lebron and Johnny Manziel gone.
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Don’t take it too hard. Tiers according to SDN are a very nebulous concept. I don’t think CCF will be a barrier to getting interviews many places if any.
 
PropAlfenta said:
The resources we have are par none.
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I just find it interesting when people who have only worked in one place talk about how nowhere else can match what they do there. There are probably at least a dozen programs (if not 20-30) that have at worst similar (and sometimes better) experiences for their residents.
 
Mman said:
I just find it interesting when people who have only worked in one place talk about how nowhere else can match what they do there. There are probably at least a dozen programs (if not 20-30) that have at worst similar (and sometimes better) experiences for their residents.
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To be clear, that was in reference to the resources (not experience which is 100% subjective).

"Cleveland Clinic ended 2017 with operating income of $330.6 million, up nearly 36 percent from $243.2 million in 2016, according to recently released bondholder documents.
Cleveland Clinic's revenues increased to $8.4 billion in 2017, up from $8 billion in the year prior. The boost was partially attributable to a 7 percent year-over-year increase in patient visits."
 
PropAlfenta said:
To be clear, that was in reference to the resources (not experience which is 100% subjective).

"Cleveland Clinic ended 2017 with operating income of $330.6 million, up nearly 36 percent from $243.2 million in 2016, according to recently released bondholder documents.
Cleveland Clinic's revenues increased to $8.4 billion in 2017, up from $8 billion in the year prior. The boost was partially attributable to a 7 percent year-over-year increase in patient visits."
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I'm pretty sure the anesthesia residents don't get an $8B education budget. So yes, I'm referring to resources available to residents.
 
PropAlfenta said:
Current CCF resident, just feel like I should correct some of the posts on here about our program. Interns average about 40 hours / week with rare 16 hour call + 7 months in the anesthesia department. Hours increase from there to ~55/week as a CA3. RARELY in OR past 5pm (you get paid $45/hour for every hour past 5:30PM)[I've turned in about 4 hours in 4 years], precall days home by 2:30, ALWAYS post call days off. Intern and CA1 take PACU GENA call (come in at 4, cover PACU, sleep, go home with day off). CA2 call can be busy only due to OLT and its the only year you can be stuck in those. CA3 call you start cases with CRNAs/residents, pre op and create plans, give breaks as needed, help with lines, etc. (feels a lot like being a staff). I guess that's "work horse" but imagine many staff/PP jobs require more of you.

We run about 120 OR's / day with cases running until 9-10PM most nights. Our patients are SICK. You learn very quickly how to manage very critically ill patients. It is not uncommon for interns to be doing kidney transplants supervised 1:2. Any given day there can be 3-4 crani's running simultaneously totalling 8-10/day. All department section heads assign residents preferred cases and we can always request assignments ahead of time. No fellows in GENA OR's. I did 14 OLT's and have 19 classmates. Lap liver resections are commonplace (probably done 30-40). Plenty of awake intubations on ENT.

CTA has 20 OR's, with A, B, and C round cases most days. CA2s are there to do lines, learn (lecture/study/OR teaching), and are out of OR at 3PM everyday to do pre ops for the next day (though this can be a burden). CA3s sit own cases and have a month of only TEE. Most residents will do 50+ CPB cases at the end of CA2 year.

Regional starts as an intern and can do as much or as little as you prefer. Elective months for CA3s you can do 8-16 blocks/day at some sites. I've logged >300 PNBs, >100 spinals, >100 epidurals. Current PD working to expand electives to other hospitals in and out of state (possibly out of country).

The resources we have are par none. TEE simulation, bronch sim, cadaver courses (stick cadavers with needles, practice chest tubes, etc), prestigious research institute, academic moneys, call moneys, conference moneys, iphone with unlimited data, new drugs, new toys, in house moonlighting, disability insurance negotiated to the CCF rate (its low). I take for granted that we have about 10 bronchoscopes for the main OR's that we are allowed to use electively for "practice."

The PD is a huge advocate for the residents and actively changes/addresses issues as they arise. For instance, ended cardiac (medicine) ICU due to long hours/high call volume and replaced it with floor consults (8A - 4P). Residents wanted more Pediatric experience so restarted our rotation at Akron Children's Hospital (more PP model - do 14 ENT cases/day if you want). He has fought hard to keep us in IR for 1 month doing tunneled lines/hickmains/ports/pigtails. We have a half day of academic time EVERY week on Thursday meaning you are unassigned from duties for half of the day to work on fellowship/job apps, research, study, logging cases, etc.

In basically every fellowship, we have prominent and well-known staff for LOR, mentorship, etc.

In brief, I do not think its fair to call CCF a mid-tier program with other programs such as IU, Ohio State, and Cincinatti. We may not be #1 hospital in America but I don't think you'll feel the experience was lacking and it certainly isn't fair to call us mid tier because we are perceived to work more than some. If you want to learn anesthesia and set yourself up for success, I don't know that you'll find a better place in the Midwest. And I promise you Cleveland is not as bad as it sounds, even with Lebron and Johnny Manziel gone.
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As a graduate of this prestigious program the SYSTEM is about as perfect as it gets. Well thought put plans to get patients through the operative process. The real world is not as perfect. And some thought needs to be placed in teaching the residents how they built such a good system.
 
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narcusprince said:
As a graduate of this prestigious programming the SYSTEM is about as perfect as it gets. Well thought put plans to get patients through the operative process. The real world is not as perfect. And some thought needs to be placed in teaching the residents how they built such a good system.
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Well to be fair, do you work in the real world? Or the military world.
Whatever the case, 120 ORs just sounds absolutely insane. Like real 120 physical ORs?
Never heard of anything like it.
And residents doing IR procedures sounds kinda awesome! Me, I can’t do cold weather. Did it for two years and that was enough!
 
I have worked in both. Private practice and the military. Yes 120 ORs. It was a machine that solved problems efficiently. Where else can push and plug anesthesiologist in slots and get the work done so vastly. The little things were well thought out. The department had lobbying power in the hospital with most number of residents and staff members. When they talk people listen.
 
PropAlfenta said:
Current CCF resident, just feel like I should correct some of the posts on here about our program. Interns average about 40 hours / week with rare 16 hour call + 7 months in the anesthesia department. Hours increase from there to ~55/week as a CA3. RARELY in OR past 5pm (you get paid $45/hour for every hour past 5:30PM)[I've turned in about 4 hours in 4 years], precall days home by 2:30, ALWAYS post call days off. Intern and CA1 take PACU GENA call (come in at 4, cover PACU, sleep, go home with day off). CA2 call can be busy only due to OLT and its the only year you can be stuck in those. CA3 call you start cases with CRNAs/residents, pre op and create plans, give breaks as needed, help with lines, etc. (feels a lot like being a staff). I guess that's "work horse" but imagine many staff/PP jobs require more of you.

We run about 120 OR's / day with cases running until 9-10PM most nights. Our patients are SICK. You learn very quickly how to manage very critically ill patients. It is not uncommon for interns to be doing kidney transplants supervised 1:2. Any given day there can be 3-4 crani's running simultaneously totalling 8-10/day. All department section heads assign residents preferred cases and we can always request assignments ahead of time. No fellows in GENA OR's. I did 14 OLT's and have 19 classmates. Lap liver resections are commonplace (probably done 30-40). Plenty of awake intubations on ENT.

CTA has 20 OR's, with A, B, and C round cases most days. CA2s are there to do lines, learn (lecture/study/OR teaching), and are out of OR at 3PM everyday to do pre ops for the next day (though this can be a burden). CA3s sit own cases and have a month of only TEE. Most residents will do 50+ CPB cases at the end of CA2 year.

Regional starts as an intern and can do as much or as little as you prefer. Elective months for CA3s you can do 8-16 blocks/day at some sites. I've logged >300 PNBs, >100 spinals, >100 epidurals. Current PD working to expand electives to other hospitals in and out of state (possibly out of country).

The resources we have are par none. TEE simulation, bronch sim, cadaver courses (stick cadavers with needles, practice chest tubes, etc), prestigious research institute, academic moneys, call moneys, conference moneys, iphone with unlimited data, new drugs, new toys, in house moonlighting, disability insurance negotiated to the CCF rate (its low). I take for granted that we have about 10 bronchoscopes for the main OR's that we are allowed to use electively for "practice."

The PD is a huge advocate for the residents and actively changes/addresses issues as they arise. For instance, ended cardiac (medicine) ICU due to long hours/high call volume and replaced it with floor consults (8A - 4P). Residents wanted more Pediatric experience so restarted our rotation at Akron Children's Hospital (more PP model - do 14 ENT cases/day if you want). He has fought hard to keep us in IR for 1 month doing tunneled lines/hickmains/ports/pigtails. We have a half day of academic time EVERY week on Thursday meaning you are unassigned from duties for half of the day to work on fellowship/job apps, research, study, logging cases, etc.

In basically every fellowship, we have prominent and well-known staff for LOR, mentorship, etc.

In brief, I do not think its fair to call CCF a mid-tier program with other programs such as IU, Ohio State, and Cincinatti. We may not be #1 hospital in America but I don't think you'll feel the experience was lacking and it certainly isn't fair to call us mid tier because we are perceived to work more than some. If you want to learn anesthesia and set yourself up for success, I don't know that you'll find a better place in the Midwest. And I promise you Cleveland is not as bad as it sounds, even with Lebron and Johnny Manziel gone.
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I loved my program and feel I got great training but this sounds better.
 
narcusprince said:
As a graduate of this prestigious program the SYSTEM is about as perfect as it gets. Well thought put plans to get patients through the operative process. The real world is not as perfect. And some thought needs to be placed in teaching the residents how they built such a good system.
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I see your point about the “system”. Back in the nineties I did a SICU month at CCF and I was surprised when we admitted OLT’s who received 0-2 units of PRBC’s intraoperatively. At my home program, it was unusual for the patients to get less than 8 and sometimes much much more.
 
Mman said:
I just find it interesting when people who have only worked in one place talk about how nowhere else can match what they do there. There are probably at least a dozen programs (if not 20-30) that have at worst similar (and sometimes better) experiences for their residents.
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True but those dozen (or 30) programs would be top tier, not mid tier. It’s definitely above average.
 
Interns doing renal transplants? Jesus Christ. I picked the wrong big name program.

Time to go back to my discharge summaries.
 
nimbus said:
I see your point about the “system”. Back in the nineties I did a SICU month at CCF and I was surprised when we admitted OLT’s who received 0-2 units of PRBC’s intraoperatively. At my home program, it was unusual for the patients to get less than 8 and sometimes much much more.
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Doesn't that mean the CCF surgeons were just a lot better? Or selected better patients? I can't imagine the anesthesia at CCF is so much better for an OLT...
 
PropAlfenta said:
Current CCF resident, just feel like I should correct some of the posts on here about our program. Interns average about 40 hours / week with rare 16 hour call + 7 months in the anesthesia department. Hours increase from there to ~55/week as a CA3. RARELY in OR past 5pm (you get paid $45/hour for every hour past 5:30PM)[I've turned in about 4 hours in 4 years], precall days home by 2:30, ALWAYS post call days off. Intern and CA1 take PACU GENA call (come in at 4, cover PACU, sleep, go home with day off). CA2 call can be busy only due to OLT and its the only year you can be stuck in those. CA3 call you start cases with CRNAs/residents, pre op and create plans, give breaks as needed, help with lines, etc. (feels a lot like being a staff). I guess that's "work horse" but imagine many staff/PP jobs require more of you.

We run about 120 OR's / day with cases running until 9-10PM most nights. Our patients are SICK. You learn very quickly how to manage very critically ill patients. It is not uncommon for interns to be doing kidney transplants supervised 1:2. Any given day there can be 3-4 crani's running simultaneously totalling 8-10/day. All department section heads assign residents preferred cases and we can always request assignments ahead of time. No fellows in GENA OR's. I did 14 OLT's and have 19 classmates. Lap liver resections are commonplace (probably done 30-40). Plenty of awake intubations on ENT.

CTA has 20 OR's, with A, B, and C round cases most days. CA2s are there to do lines, learn (lecture/study/OR teaching), and are out of OR at 3PM everyday to do pre ops for the next day (though this can be a burden). CA3s sit own cases and have a month of only TEE. Most residents will do 50+ CPB cases at the end of CA2 year.

Regional starts as an intern and can do as much or as little as you prefer. Elective months for CA3s you can do 8-16 blocks/day at some sites. I've logged >300 PNBs, >100 spinals, >100 epidurals. Current PD working to expand electives to other hospitals in and out of state (possibly out of country).

The resources we have are par none. TEE simulation, bronch sim, cadaver courses (stick cadavers with needles, practice chest tubes, etc), prestigious research institute, academic moneys, call moneys, conference moneys, iphone with unlimited data, new drugs, new toys, in house moonlighting, disability insurance negotiated to the CCF rate (its low). I take for granted that we have about 10 bronchoscopes for the main OR's that we are allowed to use electively for "practice."

The PD is a huge advocate for the residents and actively changes/addresses issues as they arise. For instance, ended cardiac (medicine) ICU due to long hours/high call volume and replaced it with floor consults (8A - 4P). Residents wanted more Pediatric experience so restarted our rotation at Akron Children's Hospital (more PP model - do 14 ENT cases/day if you want). He has fought hard to keep us in IR for 1 month doing tunneled lines/hickmains/ports/pigtails. We have a half day of academic time EVERY week on Thursday meaning you are unassigned from duties for half of the day to work on fellowship/job apps, research, study, logging cases, etc.

In basically every fellowship, we have prominent and well-known staff for LOR, mentorship, etc.

In brief, I do not think its fair to call CCF a mid-tier program with other programs such as IU, Ohio State, and Cincinatti. We may not be #1 hospital in America but I don't think you'll feel the experience was lacking and it certainly isn't fair to call us mid tier because we are perceived to work more than some. If you want to learn anesthesia and set yourself up for success, I don't know that you'll find a better place in the Midwest. And I promise you Cleveland is not as bad as it sounds, even with Lebron and Johnny Manziel gone.
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How are you able to get away with 6 anesthesia months? I thought a certain number of months have to be floor months (IM/Surg) in addition to the 2 ICU months, and 1 month EM?
 
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