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Zen Arcade said:
Hello, so I was advised to retake the MCAT last summer because of CARS: 512 (130/122/128/132). I knew this would be risky because there's always a possibility to do worse, especially when I scored so high in C/P and P/S. Well, I studied hard for a retake and tried my best to improve CARS and I got a 509 (127/125/129/128). While I did improve CARS to a more reasonable range, my scores in C/P and P/S dropped significantly (looking back I definitely felt like the exam hit my weak points) and I ended up doing 3 points worse overall! How would this be interpreted? I know its not good, but is it a catastrophe?
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It's not good and it will hurt.
 
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Goro said:
It's not good and it will hurt.

Your judgement will be called into question, for starters.

What f*ing ***** advised you to retake a score that is > national average for acceptees?
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A 512 is strong but a 122 on CARS is damagingly (and potentially lethally) low. I would have retaken it as well. However, OP's significantly decreased scores on the C/P and P/S are concerning. This goes to show that either 1) the MCAT is too content heavy or 2) there isn't as much equality across different MCAT dates as the AAMC claims to be. Or perhaps OP was just having a bad day :shrug:
 
Phew! Not a person to take advice from again.

But, it's already done and in the books so you have to work with it. 509 is still a decent score. I would play up the consistency from your first to second test (3 points isn't a huge move), and maybe throw your advisor under the bus for giving such crummy advice. You'll have to own what happened and address it.
 
ClamShell said:
A 512 is strong but a 122 on CARS is damagingly (and potentially lethally) low. I would have retaken it as well. However, OP's significantly decreased scores on the C/P and P/S are concerning. This goes to show that either 1) the MCAT is too content heavy or 2) there isn't as much equality across different MCAT dates as the AAMC claims to be. Or perhaps OP was just having a bad day :shrug:
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I see your point about the CARS score, but to Adcoms, there is no "bad day". Bad days in the clinic lead to dead patients.

What we see is someone who had knowledge decay, and we expect people to be prepared for a career-deciding, high stakes exam.
 
Goro said:
I see your point about the CARS score, but to Adcoms, there is no "bad day". Bad days in the clinic lead to dead patients.

What we see is someone who had knowledge decay, and we expect people to be prepared for a career-deciding, high stakes exam.
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Does this mean I should retake then? I know I can do better, I was getting 518-519 on practice going in. At the same time though I know that if I don’t improve this will look even worse...
 
Zen Arcade said:
Does this mean I should retake then? I know I can do better, I was getting 518-519 on practice going in. At the same time though I know that if I don’t improve this will look even worse...
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I suggest trying an app cycle and see how it shakes out. You have to have DO schools on your list.

For MD, in vest in MSAR and target those schools where your stats are closest to the medians, and your numbers are > their 10th %iles. Pay very careful attention to the IS/OOS rations, and chances will be best with your stats schools.

Also, the discord between your practice scores and reality suggest some test taking anxiety issues, or perhaps reading comprehension. Are you ESL or 1st gen American?

IF you get shut out after a cycle, then retake.
 
Zen Arcade said:
Does this mean I should retake then? I know I can do better, I was getting 518-519 on practice going in. At the same time though I know that if I don’t improve this will look even worse...
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Can you reason why your C/P and P/S scores significantly decreased?
 
ClamShell said:
Can you reason why your C/P and P/S scores significantly decreased?
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Based on looking back on the test:
1) C/P was much harder this time so it was a mix of not able to reach the correct answer for some problems in a reasonable amount of time and simply testing content that wasn't my strong suit.
2) The first time I took P/S there was no terms I haven't seen before. This time there were at least 7 questions that had new terms and I simply guessed incorrectly on them. It really was just a content thing, I know my abilities are about the same as when I took the test and got a 132.

I'll also add that the first time I took the test I had problems with panic attacks, especially during the CARS section. I went to the doctor, got help, and did not have issues with anxiety this time around. However, that may have presented a disservice to me on the other sections I usually feel confident in (C/P, P/S) because having a low level of adrenaline keeps me on my toes. So maybe the fact that I had a lot less nerves partially explains the difference. Overall, though I studied hard for both tests and did not feel like I was less prepared going into the retake.
 
Zen Arcade said:
Based on looking back on the test:
1) C/P was much harder this time so it was a mix of not able to reach the correct answer for some problems in a reasonable amount of time and simply testing content that wasn't my strong suit.
2) The first time I took P/S there was no terms I haven't seen before. This time there were at least 7 questions that had new terms and I simply guessed incorrectly on them. It really was just a content thing, I know my abilities are about the same as when I took the test and got a 132.

I'll also add that the first time I took the test I had problems with panic attacks, especially during the CARS section. I went to the doctor, got help, and did not have issues with anxiety this time around. However, that may have presented a disservice to me on the other sections I usually feel confident in (C/P, P/S) because having a low level of adrenaline keeps me on my toes. So maybe the fact that I had a lot less nerves partially explains the difference. Overall, though I studied hard for both tests and did not feel like I was less prepared going into the retake.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. AAMC claims that your test date doesn’t matter. And I disagree.
 
ClamShell said:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. AAMC claims that your test date doesn’t matter. And I disagree.
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Yeah that is bs.
There are a multitude of topics and if youre stuck being tested on stuff you’re weaker on... that is how it goes.

This happened when i took step 1. It was sad
 
ClamShell said:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. AAMC claims that your test date doesn’t matter. And I disagree.
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I also think a big thing is that I scored pretty high the first time. Retaking a 132 and getting that same score again is really difficult because of the number of questions you can get wrong.
 
ClamShell said:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. AAMC claims that your test date doesn’t matter. And I disagree.
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What I think would be a good method is everyone is curved based on their test day and assigned a relative percentile on their test day, then, each test day is compared at the end of the MCAT-taking cycle and scaled at the end based on individual test curves. That way, it would at least be easier to say one test day yields the same score as another. This would require that AAMC only issue the MCAT for one cycle between say January and end of May, then everyone gets their scores all at once right end the application opens. This would lead to a lot less chance in a test having higher or lower yield topics affecting your score. We can tell students that their is no such thing as high and low yield....but that just isn't true.

Main problems with this strategy:
1) No option for retaking within a given cycle
2) would require either more test days or more test centers
3) would require some students to either take the test before they are ready or delay the test a year.
 
Was in the same boat as OP. 512: 129/125/129/129 and I thought maybe I should retake to balance out my cars.
 
samualjhatfield said:
What I think would be a good method is everyone is curved based on their test day and assigned a relative percentile on their test day, then, each test day is compared at the end of the MCAT-taking cycle and scaled at the end based on individual test curves. That way, it would at least be easier to say one test day yields the same score as another. This would require that AAMC only issue the MCAT for one cycle between say January and end of May, then everyone gets their scores all at once right end the application opens. This would lead to a lot less chance in a test having higher or lower yield topics affecting your score. We can tell students that their is no such thing as high and low yield....but that just isn't true.

Main problems with this strategy:
1) No option for retaking within a given cycle
2) would require either more test days or more test centers
3) would require some students to either take the test before they are ready or delay the test a year.
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Well the curve is not the problem. Each test date is curved throughout all scored exams so that a certain score is relatively equivalent based on relative success only, as defined as number of questions correct. The discrepancies from one test date to the other are moreso based on content variations, especially on the C/P section. Supposed a certain test date has 3 passages on this section regarding Electricity and Magnetism topics and the next test date has zero. Now suppose two test takers are exactly alike and both have a weakness in EM. One schedules their test for the earlier exam and the other schedules for the later. It is very likely that the one who takes it earlier will be significantly disadvantaged.
 
I also would have recommended to retake a 122 CARS.

You might want to go through this thread about how schools consider multiple MCAT scores:

Multiple MCAT Score Policy School List


Apparently a lot of schools give most weight to your higher score. Others consider your most recent score. Some superscore and take the highest subsection scores.
 
ClamShell said:
Well the curve is not the problem. Each test date is curved throughout all scored exams so that a certain score is relatively equivalent based on relative success only, as defined as number of questions correct. The discrepancies from one test date to the other are moreso based on content variations, especially on the C/P section. Supposed a certain test date has 3 passages on this section regarding Electricity and Magnetism topics and the next test date has zero. Now suppose two test takers are exactly alike and both have a weakness in EM. One schedules their test for the earlier exam and the other schedules for the later. It is very likely that the one who takes it earlier will be significantly disadvantaged.
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Any idea if there are variations like this based on when you take the exam in the cycle? Like, only the super high speed students take it in January so the curve for that test is higher, or only the super unprepared students take it in August so the curve is lower? (These are not true statements, just theoretical examples).
 
In 2015 and 2016, only 12% of test-takers who retook after receiving an MCAT score in the 510-513 range got a new score that was 3+ points lower than their original one. It's not unheard of, but it's also not very common. I'd venture to guess that you forgot some of the content you learned prior to your first test. Also, P/S is scored harshly because it's such an easy section, so it's not hard to drop from a 132.

ClamShell said:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. AAMC claims that your test date doesn’t matter. And I disagree.
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The AAMC acknowledges that the test isn't perfectly precise. That's why they include confidence bands for each section score and for the overall score.
 
samualjhatfield said:
Any idea if there are variations like this based on when you take the exam in the cycle? Like, only the super high speed students take it in January so the curve for that test is higher, or only the super unprepared students take it in August so the curve is lower? (These are not true statements, just theoretical examples).
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This absolutely does not matter. When AAMC curves exams, it curves using ALL exams since the inception of the new version in 2015.

As I said previously, it's the content variation that matters. And sometimes the content variation may hurt and sometimes it may not. Depends on the test taker.
 
Zen Arcade said:
Hello, so I was advised to retake the MCAT last summer because of CARS: 512 (130/122/128/132). I knew this would be risky because there's always a possibility to do worse, especially when I scored so high in C/P and P/S. Well, I studied hard for a retake and tried my best to improve CARS and I got a 509 (127/125/129/128). While I did improve CARS to a more reasonable range, my scores in C/P and P/S dropped significantly (looking back I definitely felt like the exam hit my weak points) and I ended up doing 3 points worse overall! How would this be interpreted? I know its not good, but is it a catastrophe?
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OP, I would retake. As much as it is rough to take this exam three times, I can't imagine that any adcom will look well upon a total composite MCAT decrease even if the score is more balanced. They expect to see an improvement with multiple MCATs. There's also so much variation with how admissions offices look at multiple MCATs, and many just won't explicitly state if they look at most recent, highest, or take an average. I that most schools have explicitly stated on their website that they will take the most recent. That said, there is always idiosyncratic interpretation of an individual member who looks at your app, which makes it even harder to evaluate and get a feel for your chances.

You did the right thing by retaking your 512. Plenty of schools will screen out a <125 MCAT even if they do not explicitly state it on their website, and it doesn't matter how strong the rest of your app is; it's simply a quality of the competition for seats (I learned this with the phone interviews I did with adcoms after rejection pre-interview). You showed that you have the potential to score well on C/P, and I think if you hit your weak areas, you can definitely get that sub-section up. CARS is more of a concern, as you have had a 122 on your history before, so there is a chance that the 125 may go down, especially with the overall challenge it is to prepare for this section.

I have to recommend a retake with getting this score above a 512.
 
Zen Arcade said:
Hello, so I was advised to retake the MCAT last summer because of CARS: 512 (130/122/128/132). I knew this would be risky because there's always a possibility to do worse, especially when I scored so high in C/P and P/S. Well, I studied hard for a retake and tried my best to improve CARS and I got a 509 (127/125/129/128). While I did improve CARS to a more reasonable range, my scores in C/P and P/S dropped significantly (looking back I definitely felt like the exam hit my weak points) and I ended up doing 3 points worse overall! How would this be interpreted? I know its not good, but is it a catastrophe?
Click to expand...

It's not difficult to look at your two MCATs and see why you retook the exam. Given that the confidence bands for 509 and 512 overlap, if I were reviewing your application I would average your two scores to a 510.5.
 
ClamShell said:
122 on CARS is damagingly (and potentially lethally) low
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Right. So this student was sort of cornered. Even tho composite was high enough, he had to risk the retake because of that 122 (about 25 percentile..ouch). I think there may have been some forgiveness if ESL...maybe?

Have a friend facing the same similar situation but has a 122 in the psych/soc section (22 percentile). He had a failed cycle this year; composite was 510. No interviews. Needs to retake but afraid.

(Edit total typo!!! Sorry) I believe that a 127 on a section is viewed like a 10 on a section on the old MCAT.
 
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PreMedMissteps said:
Right. So this student was sort of cornered. Even tho composite was high enough, he had to risk the retake because of that 122 (about 25 percentile..ouch). I think there may have been some forgiveness if ESL...maybe?

Have a friend facing the same similar situation but has a 122 in the psych/soc section (22 percentile). He had a failed cycle this year; composite was 510. No interviews. Needs to retake but afraid.

I believe that a 517 on a section is viewed like a 10 on a section on the old MCAT.
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517 on a section?
 
samualjhatfield said:
What is the concensus on high end unbalanced scores? Like my FL2 practice was 131/130/132/126. Is that 6 point spread detrimental?
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No one cares about the spread. When concerns are brought up about an unbalanced score it’s usually cause one sub-section is lethally low.

But a spread that is extremely high (like 10 points) is a concern only because it means that you have a section that is 122 or lower.
 
ClamShell said:
No one cares about the spread. When concerns are brought up about an unbalanced score it’s usually cause one sub-section is lethally low.

But a spread that is extremely high (like 10 points) is a concern only because it means that you have a section that is 122 or lower.
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Gotcha, I just remember one post like 8 years ago saying they got a 37 MCAT with 15, 14, 8 and got no interviews....It has been a while. Right on.
 
I got an 8 on VR, and it didn’t kill my app. I certainly wasn’t pleased with it though (11 and 12 in the others)
 
Oh, he listed the 8 last, so I initially thought he was saying the breakdown was 15/14/8 (as in the 8 was for Bio). But, I agree, for Verbal an 8 wasn’t killer (still kinda low, though)
 
Zen Arcade said:
Hello, so I was advised to retake the MCAT last summer because of CARS: 512 (130/122/128/132). I knew this would be risky because there's always a possibility to do worse, especially when I scored so high in C/P and P/S. Well, I studied hard for a retake and tried my best to improve CARS and I got a 509 (127/125/129/128). While I did improve CARS to a more reasonable range, my scores in C/P and P/S dropped significantly (looking back I definitely felt like the exam hit my weak points) and I ended up doing 3 points worse overall! How would this be interpreted? I know its not good, but is it a catastrophe?
Click to expand...
Goro said:
It's not good and it will hurt.
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Yep. Sorry OP. It's better to apply to many DO schools in the upcoming cycle so that you don't get shut out. But in any case, the score drop will hurt you.
 
Goro said:
Only in the minds of neurotic pre meds
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ThrowawayShmoaway said:
Oh, he listed the 8 last, so I initially thought he was saying the breakdown was 15/14/8 (as in the 8 was for Bio). But, I agree, for Verbal an 8 wasn’t killer (still kinda low, though)
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ClamShell said:
Nope.

CARS 126 is at 72%

Verbal 8 is at 52%

That's quite a big difference.
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Gotcha. Righteous, while I was wrong about the equivalency (thank you for correcting me) this matched my suspicions just wanted to confirm. Basically, a good score is a good score as long as all are >125 or >124 in some instances.
 
premedalt said:
I also would have recommended to retake a 122 CARS.

You might want to go through this thread about how schools consider multiple MCAT scores:

Multiple MCAT Score Policy School List


Apparently a lot of schools give most weight to your higher score. Others consider your most recent score. Some superscore and take the highest subsection scores.
Click to expand...
Whatever the school's "party line," the interpretation of multiple scores is completely unpredictable. We show the AAMC recommendation to average scores every year. Each evaluator has their own idiosyncratic perception. Many of them believe that the first score is more likely to correlate to Step 1 (you only get one chance at it).
 
gyngyn said:
Whatever the school's "party line," the interpretation of multiple scores is completely unpredictable. We show the AAMC recommendation to average scores every year. Each evaluator has their own idiosyncratic perception. Many of them believe that the first score is more likely to correlate to Step 1 (you only get one chance at it).
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Why is Step 1 only allowed once? Is it because it might distort the curve if the same student takes it multiple times? If that is indeed the case, how does AAMC account for this when the same students takes the MCAT multiple times?
 
ClamShell said:
Why is Step 1 only allowed once? Is it because it might distort the curve if the same student takes it multiple times? If that is indeed the case, how does AAMC account for this when the same students takes the MCAT multiple times?
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I thought you could take STEP1 as many times as the school allowed?
 
ClamShell said:
Why is Step 1 only allowed once?
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You only get one passing score. If you flunk, you are allowed a re-take (or more depending on your school's policy). State licensing boards also have limits.
 
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