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Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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xnmed16

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sorry you are going through this.

I think your problem is on top of the board failures. If that many programs weren’t willing to take a look , I wonder what was said on mspe about clinical performance .

I would speak with a mentor , but you should be trying to get a tri or equivalent, to get some training at least.
alsowhat was the breakdown between fm and IM. You should have applied to many more fm and hardly any IM.
 
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xnmed16 said:
- Medical leave of absence (2 course failing grades before applying for leave of absence)
- Class rank - bottom 5%
- Level 1 - 483 (failed twice 377, 395)
- Level 2CE - 456
- Level 2PE - passed
- Graduated out of cycle because of school-mandated dedicated study period after each Level 1 failures

Applied to ~250 of suburban community IM and FM. Only 2 FM interview invites.

In case I do not match, do I have a chance of matching rural IM/FM at all by scrambling? Do programs set lower requirements during SOAP? If not what options should I seek? Thinking about studying for Step 1 and 2, in case I can't find a spot.
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I think that you can get into a FM somewhere via match or soap. Best of luck. Positive thinking. You’re going to be a doctor!
 
I'm pretty sure, the military will be a viable path to residency should you not match. Consider talking to a recruiter.
 
sb247 said:
Military doesn’t always take civilian applicants to their residency programs, they aren’t meant to a be a backup for folks that can’t hang in the civilian world. But policy can change every year
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Matching military as a civillian would be extremely difficult for even competitve applicants. OP would definitely require the service years post residency. Their path will likely be: sign up for military -> military intern year -> 1-2 GMO tours -> mil residency -> military service requirement.
 
dangEras said:
Matching military as a civillian would be extremely difficult for even competitve applicants. OP would definitely require the service years post residency. Their path will likely be: sign up for military -> military intern year -> 1-2 GMO tours -> mil residency -> military service requirement.
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This is false news. You don’t need to do GMO tours if you’re going into FM/IM.
 
dangEras said:
Matching military as a civillian would be extremely difficult for even competitve applicants. OP would definitely require the service years post residency. Their path will likely be: sign up for military -> military intern year -> 1-2 GMO tours -> mil residency -> military service requirement.
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You are missing something here. You can’t just sign up as a doctor without a license and (at least in the army this year) a civilian can’t apply to army residency

This is all more complicated than you are pitching
 
xnmed16 said:
To make things worse, I am an international student studying in the US. Can't deny I didn't think about military option, but Uncle Sam only takes green card holders. I guess that's a part of the reason why I didn't get too many interview invites.
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That is a very tough predicament. Yes to your original question. Apply rural, apply to everything you can, you will need to maximize your chances.
 
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xnmed16 said:
To make things worse, I am an international student studying in the US. Can't deny I didn't think about military option, but Uncle Sam only takes green card holders. I guess that's a part of the reason why I didn't get too many interview invites.
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This is really the reason additional programs didnt invite you.
Two red flags not, Visa issues and board failures.
Are you canadian? Can you obtain residency in home country ?
 
jurassicpark said:
That is a very tough predicament. Yes to your original question. Apply rural, apply to everything you can, you will need to maximize your chances.
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Should have lead with "I'm an FMG with multiple board failures." Time to start making your backup plan that doesn't include a residency. You could look at the Dakota's which have a program where you do a TY and then can work in primary care as a midlevel. Good luck
 
Get in front of this if you can. Talk to your Clinical Dean, who would assist you with SOAP/SCRAMBLE anyway. They might be able to refer you to programs that often don't fill and maybe you can contact them before,( not sure if this is legal), or IMMDIATELY after finding out you did not match. If you are quick, you might scramble into a slot. Your Clinical Dean is your best resource IMO. Sorry you are dealing with this. Good luck and Best Wishes!
 
Medic741 said:
Should have lead with "I'm an FMG with multiple board failures." Time to start making your backup plan that doesn't include a residency. You could look at the Dakota's which have a program where you do a TY and then can work in primary care as a midlevel. Good luck
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If someone is an International student attending a US school (US MD or DO), are they still considered FMG?
 
DrStephenStrange said:
If someone is an International student attending a US school (US MD or DO), are they still considered FMG?
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Yes. Interviewed alongside a Canadian student who went to a Michigan DO school, both of us applying FM. He was a great applicant and had a decent number of interviews, but he still had to apply very broadly and knew he would have had much better success if he was from the US.
 
Sardonix said:
Yes. Interviewed alongside a Canadian student who went to a Michigan DO school, both of us applying FM. He was a great applicant and had a decent number of interviews, but he still had to apply very broadly and knew he would have had much better success if he was from the US.
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This is incorrect. You’re a “Senior at a D.O school” for all intents and purposes. So you’re treated like a US grad, who has the additional hurdle of requiring a visa. You’re NOT a FMG lol, “Foreign medical graduate” - it’s right there in the term.


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Sardonix said:
Yes. Interviewed alongside a Canadian student who went to a Michigan DO school, both of us applying FM. He was a great applicant and had a decent number of interviews, but he still had to apply very broadly and knew he would have had much better success if he was from the US.
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Your friend probably had to apply broadly because of visa requirements, not strictly because of his nationality.
 
Lexdiamondz said:
Your friend probably had to apply broadly because of visa requirements, not strictly because of his nationality.
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That's what I suspected.

risus_sardonicus said:
This is incorrect. You’re a “Senior at a D.O school” for all intents and purposes. So you’re treated like a US grad, who has the additional hurdle of requiring a visa. You’re NOT a FMG lol, “Foreign medical graduate” - it’s right there in the term.
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My mistake for getting terminology wrong.

But you are also incorrect, at least in the n=1 case, that the guy was considered a US grad "for all intents and purposes." One of the intents AND purposes for 99% of med school grads is to get into residency, for which this guy was clearly having to work harder at than a typical US DO. If this is not everyone's experience, I am by all means not saying they are wrong.
 
Sardonix said:
...My mistake for getting terminology wrong.

But you are also incorrect, at least in the n=1 case, that the guy was considered a US grad "for all intents and purposes." One of the intents AND purposes for 99% of med school grads is to get into residency, for which this guy was clearly having to work harder at than a typical US DO. If this is not everyone's experience, I am by all means not saying they are wrong.
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He needs a visa, that's the additional hurdle. He is a senior DO applicant otherwise. If he suddenly got citizenship or a green card now, he wouldn't then be treated differently. His hurdle is the visa. He's not an FMG, he's a non-US citizen AMG. Its not the same as a US citizen AMG, but its certainly not the same as an FMG. He won't have to get ECFMG certification, he won't have extra requirements when applying for licensure, etc. The only hurdle is the visa requirement, which unfortunately is a big one.

OP, I would consider applying to Canada and obviously applying broadly to all of the residencies that offer visas, which is on the order of like half of them. Even J1 would be reasonable, because worst case scenario you go back to Canada for a couple years. Its not the end of the world.
 
Time to consider pathology... at least try to get your foot in the door.
 
The OP is a US grad who is a foreign national and needs a visa. As far as the NRMP and ERAS are concerned, they are a US DO. If I were to run a filter in ERAS asking to show me all of the US DO applicants, they would appear. But their need for a visa will certainly limit their options. DO schools are relatively new to taking non-citizens, and traditionally DO focused training programs may have very little or no experience with this.

Those suggesting that the OP apply to Canada (assuming that's where the OP is from) are mistaken. The residency match in Canada is very competitive, and there are not many spots for US grads. Plus there are no DO schools in Canada, so residency programs may be less familiar with DO students. The OP could only apply in the second iteration. In any case, it's much too late for this year's process. With a performance like this, the OP's chances in CaRMS is basically zero. And this assumes they are Canadian, which they may not be.

The OP needs a SOAP strategy. They have two interviews, so hopefully they match -- but best to be prepared. They get the 30 applications in SOAP, so very important to use them wisely. My advice is to download the match results from prior years: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Program-Result-2015-2019.pdf

This is the actual full results of the match for the last 5 years. Search through the FM programs, looking for those where the total matched is less than the quota. The very first fits the bill -- in Alabama, Baptist Outreach Services. Quota:8, Matched:6. These results are pre-SOAP. However you'll see that they filled in prior years, last year was an anomaly. So this isn't the program you're looking for. Instead, you're looking for programs with a track record of not filling. U South Alabama has not filled several times in the last 5 years. Also might look for new programs that didn't fill.

This will give you some sense of which programs tend to be unfilled. You will then research each of these programs, looking for DO's in the program. The bigger the difference between Quota and Matched, the more you should consider the program.

Mentioned in the thread is considering Pathology. This is an option, but you should only explore it if you would really consider a career in Path. If so, you need to do the same exercise as above with Pathology.

Then, if you don't match, you take the list of open programs and match it to your research, and you know where you'll apply. You only get a limited number of SOAP applications, so you need to use them wisely.
 
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It's better to be a pathologist than having just a medical degree and have nothing to show for it... Time to be practical.


I also was saying that because once you got your foot in the door, it's easier to make connection and transfer to FM/IM within the same GME program... I have seen it done.
 
aProgDirector said:
...Those suggesting that the OP apply to Canada (assuming that's where the OP is from) are mistaken. The residency match in Canada is very competitive, and there are not many spots for US grads. Plus there are no DO schools in Canada, so residency programs may be less familiar with DO students. The OP could only apply in the second iteration. In any case, it's much too late for this year's process. With a performance like this, the OP's chances in CaRMS is basically zero. And this assumes they are Canadian, which they may not be...
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Your post is very helpful, but I do want to point out that the bolded is not correct. US DO graduates who are Canadian citizens and have not completed US GME apply through the 1st iteration. Eligibility criteria - CaRMS

Like you said, they would need to apply next year, have to be Canadian citizens (all the talk about Canadian citizens threw me off), and have to pass necessary exams depending on the province. They would be in the 1st iteration though. The thing that would put them into the 2nd iteration would be if they were FMGs from outside of US/Canada or if they were US grads who have completed some US GME.
 
xnmed16 said:
Great advice. Do programs set lower minimal required board scores during SOAP in order to fill the residency spots? Or do they tend to get more competitive due to applicants that did not match into more competitive fields, such as GS?
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Both. It will totally depend upon the program. Having been in SOAP/Scramble in my career, and helped others, we get a mix of apps from people who failed to match in a more competitive field, and those that failed to match in our field. The former may be "more competitive" on paper, but unclear if they really are interested or just looking for a spot and then plan to reapply the next year.

hallowmann said:
Your post is very helpful, but I do want to point out that the bolded is not correct. US DO graduates who are Canadian citizens and have not completed US GME apply through the 1st iteration. Eligibility criteria - CaRMS

Like you said, they would need to apply next year, have to be Canadian citizens (all the talk about Canadian citizens threw me off), and have to pass necessary exams depending on the province. They would be in the 1st iteration though. The thing that would put them into the 2nd iteration would be if they were FMGs from outside of US/Canada or if they were US grads who have completed some US GME.
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Thanks for the correction!
 
Yeah FM is lowest avg step and there are far fewer path spots, lot more likely to match/SOAP into something with lower avg step and more slots idk what the hell people are talking about with path, even PM&R, peds, IM would likely be easier. Maybe cause there are a lot of FMG in path?
 
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