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[Goro]

It's helpful to see what your coping skills are as medical school is a very stressful situation.

It's helpful to know if you have Grit

it's also helpful to know if you are capable of introspection

 

[KnightDoc]

It's helpful to see what your coping skills are as medical school is a very stressful situation.

It's helpful to know if you have Grit

it's also helpful to know if you are capable of introspection

How helpful is it to have above average creative writing skills, as well as the ability to convincingly present one's work orally in a one-on-way setting? Because that seems to be what OP is asking!! 🙂

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

How helpful is it to have above average creative writing skills, as well as the ability to convincingly present one's work orally in a one-on-way setting? Because that seems to be what OP is asking!! 🙂

To me also it's more about creative writing skills than showing coping mechanism 🙂

 

[Damson]

How helpful is it to have above average creative writing skills, as well as the ability to convincingly present one's work orally in a one-on-way setting? Because that seems to be what OP is asking!! 🙂

To me also it's more about creative writing skills than showing coping mechanism 🙂

This has been a common theme between you two

" 🙂 " at the end of your posts

???

 

[Goro]

This has been a common theme between you two

" 🙂 " at the end of your posts

???

And both ignorant about the med school application process!

 

[KnightDoc]

And both ignorant about the med school application process!

But my observation was dead serious. You told OP all the attributes you are looking for in a response, and I was pointing out how easily what you seek can be faked. I honestly don't need to be able to cope, have grit, or be able to look deep inside myself as long as I can write well enough to convince you otherwise.

 

[TheDataKing]

But my observation was dead serious. You told OP all the attributes you are looking for in a response, and I was pointing out how easily what you seek can be faked in a response. I honestly don't need to be able to cope, have grit, or be able to look deep inside myself as long as I can write well enough to convince you otherwise. "

You speak to the process as though you've gone through it, or rather as if you are on an adcom yourself. As such, the naivete, arrogance, and immaturity most certainly would stand out even if you were able to "fake a response"

 

[Damson]

But my observation was dead serious. You told OP all the attributes you are looking for in a response, and I was pointing out how easily what you seek can be faked in a response. I honestly don't need to be able to cope, have grit, or be able to look deep inside myself as long as I can write well enough to convince you otherwise.

It's easy to control how you appear on paper, but hard to control the nuances of verbal expression, facial expression, and body language.

The adcoms are smart boys. They're not going to let you through the interviews you are not a well-adjusted, confident, strong student. And they have many ways to uncover weaknesses.

They're going to test how well you are at being social with them, keeping a conversation going. They're going to put you under pressure in ways you do not anticipate. certainly ways I did not anticipate. When I gave one professor a response to what would I do under this cheating situation - he shook his head hard from side to side. I was like "oh god" but later realized he was just testing my ability to react under disapproval and if I was going defend myself (this also tests how strongly I stand by my opinion. if I give a bs scripted answer, chances are I won't follow up on my initial statement).

So, while lying on paper might give you a chance to interview, the victim is you, less likely the school. Because if you describe yourself as someone you aren't, your subconscious knows it immediately, and it hurts. If you aren't ready to be reamed at interviews, it's you who wasted a thousands traveling to and fro only to get WL/R. The adcoms really don't play around with their valuable seats.

Worst part for those who make it through who shouldn't have made it through, is that the stress is just going to get worse. Just shape yourself into who you need to be first. Then apply.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

And both ignorant about the med school application process!

Not at all. I get the process but I also think it could be simpler.

 

[KnightDoc]

It's easy to control how you appear on paper, but hard to control the nuances of verbal expression, facial expression, and body language.

The adcoms are smart boys. They're not going to let you through the interviews you are not a well-adjusted, confident, strong student. And they have many ways to uncover weaknesses.

They're going to test how well you are at being social with them, keeping a conversation going. They're going to put you under pressure in ways you do not anticipate. certainly ways I did not anticipate. When I gave one professor a response to what would I do under this cheating situation - he shook his head hard from side to side. I was like "oh god" but later realized he was just testing my ability to react under disapproval and if I was going defend myself (this also tests how strongly I stand by my opinion. if I give a bs scripted answer, chances are I won't follow up on my initial statement).

So, while lying on paper might give you a chance to interview, the victim is you, less likely the school. Because if you describe yourself as someone you aren't, your subconscious knows it immediately, and it hurts. If you aren't ready to be reamed at interviews, it's you who wasted a thousands traveling to and fro only to get WL/R. The adcoms really don't play around with their valuable seats.

Worst part for those who make it through who shouldn't have made it through, is that the stress is just going to get worse. Just shape yourself into who you need to be first. Then apply.

So, what's the message? If one has led a charmed life, one is simply not qualified to become an American MD, because one has not had the opportunity to demonstrate the necessary grit, coping mechanism and introspection? Or, that because most people are not so lucky, that there is no such thing as a brilliant student brought up in over privileged circumstances who never had to struggle academically, financially, emotionally, etc.?

So they can't go to med school because their grades are too good, their parents were too good to them, their family is too healthy, they were never picked last for the team, they have lots of friends, etc. and in general they simply have nothing to complain about, and they couldn't possibly tell a story the adcoms have indicated they expect to hear because adcoms' BS meters are too finely tuned to get away with it???

 

[KnightDoc]

You speak to the process as though you've gone through it, or rather as if you are on an adcom yourself. As such, the naivete, arrogance, and immaturity most certainly would stand out even if you were able to "fake a response"

That's certainly one way to look at it. Another is that I have had a much easier life than others. I don't lack the ability to self reflect, but my little struggles pale in comparison to most. In addition, no, I haven't really had an opportunity to demonstrate "grit" because I have performed pretty well to date. Do I need to set myself up to fail so that I can demonstrate a comeback? According to some opinions here, it looks like I'll have that opportunity after my first cycle. I guess we'll see.

 

[Goro]

I think any challenge overcome could show those if it is written well. But is adversity and challenge synonymous in secondaries? I was interpreting adversity as something major like health issues or family death, while challenge as something more minor like difficulties learning a new sport or maybe some research hurdles. The optional question in this case is "Have you experienced any hardship or adversity, personally or professionally?" Idk if it would appropriate to talk about something minor when many applicants will discuss major issues.

ad·ver·si·ty
/ədˈvərsədē/

noun
difficulties; misfortune.
"resilience in the face of adversity




noun: challenge;

a task or situation that tests someone's abilities.

"the ridge is a challenge for experienced climbers

They have overlap, but one implies something worse.

 

[HopeP]

I am catching the train here. I have not experienced application process yet. It is easy to come up with an adverse story if you had experienced one, whether by choice or forced upon you (a family health situation, a life incidence throw you in adverse situation).
Privileged can endure adversity by choice, accept a challenge that otherwise you won't face it, albeit lack of story shouldn't be treated as a -ve factor.
Irrespective, how creative writer one is, lying on application won't fly in any professional field unless you intend to work for H(B)ollywood.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I am catching the train here. I have not experienced application process yet. It is easy to come up with an adverse story if you had experienced one, whether by choice or forced upon you (a family health situation, a life incidence throw you in adverse situation).
Privileged can endure adversity by choice, accept a challenge that otherwise you won't face it, albeit lack of story shouldn't be treated as a -ve factor.
Irrespective, how creative writer one is, lying on application won't fly in any professional field unless you intend to work for H(B)ollywood.

No one is advocating for lying. I have looked at 20+ schools secondary prompts for this cycle and they are all over the places on adversity and challenge prompts. I would say you have to be a creative writer to answer those.

 

[Damson]

So, what's the message? If one has led a charmed life, one is simply not qualified to become an American MD, because one has not had the opportunity to demonstrate the necessary grit, coping mechanism and introspection? Or, that because most people are not so lucky, that there is no such thing as a brilliant student brought up in over privileged circumstances who never had to struggle academically, financially, emotionally, etc.?

So they can't go to med school because their grades are too good, their parents were too good to them, their family is too healthy, they were never picked last for the team, they have lots of friends, etc. and in general they simply have nothing to complain about, and they couldn't possibly tell a story the adcoms have indicated they expect to hear because adcoms' BS meters are too finely tuned to get away with it???

The message is that "I honestly don't need to be able to cope, have grit, or be able to look deep inside myself as long as I can write well enough to convince you otherwise." is not the right attitude and is not going to help you.

Put yourself on paper and embellish as needed. But lying is going to work against you, both within yourself and during the interview stage.

That's certainly one way to look at it. Another is that I have had a much easier life than others. I don't lack the ability to self reflect, but my little struggles pale in comparison to most. In addition, no, I haven't really had an opportunity to demonstrate "grit" because I have performed pretty well to date. Do I need to set myself up to fail so that I can demonstrate a comeback? According to some opinions here, it looks like I'll have that opportunity after my first cycle. I guess we'll see.

To make it to the med school application stage, you must've encountered many difficulties. Workload? Finances? Scheduling? Other personal struggles? Groupwork issues? Lots of things to write about. It doesn't have to be a dazzling experience where a shocking obstacle was overcome. You learn big things through life's minor struggles and setbacks - the adcoms know this. You also would have had to demonstrate grit to maintain strong grades and achieve a competitive MCAT.

Red flag here. Your post history indicates that you had already participated in a cycle, was waitlisted, then never got off the waitlist. Now you're telling us a different story.

 

[HopeP]

A lot of secondaries ask something along the lines of "Have you experienced any hardship or adversity, personally or professionally?" These are usually optional. I've also had an interviewer ask me why medicine and after I explained why, they asked if I had any deaths or illnesses in the family. I answered no (which was honest) and the interviewer seemed put off by that. I guess my question is do adcoms want a "adversity" story? I could probably write something, but I would say my major adversities are unrelated to medicine/health and haven't affected my academics, so I'd rather not discuss them and am somewhat uncomfortable doing so.

Few points. To suggest any death, ofc great grandfather is an easy answer if no one under grand parents umbrella has affected. so genuinely 'no' is not a correct answer. You admitted that you had adversities, I would describe them honestly and let adcom or interviewer decide the value of that adversity, by eliminating upfront you may not be helping your application.

 

[HopeP]

No one is advocating for lying. I have looked at 20+ schools secondary prompts for this cycle and they are all over the places on adversity and challenge prompts. I would say you have to be a creative writer to answer those.

It was in reference to

I was pointing out how easily what you seek can be faked.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Put yourself on paper and embellish as needed.

You also would have had to demonstrate some grit to maintain strong grades and achieve a competitive MCAT.

Red flag here. Your post history indicates that you had already participated in a cycle, was waitlisted, then never got off the waitlist. Now you're telling us a different story.

So Embellish (or creative writing) is OK?

You are not supposed to talk about grades and MCAT in the essays.

As per what I have seen @KnightDoc hasn't participated in a cycle yet.

 

[KnightDoc]

The message is that "I honestly don't need to be able to cope, have grit, or be able to look deep inside myself as long as I can write well enough to convince you otherwise." is not the right attitude and is not going to help you.

Put yourself on paper and embellish as needed. But lying is going to work against you, both within yourself and during the interview stage.



To make it to the med school application stage, you must've encountered many difficulties. Workload? Finances? Scheduling? Other personal struggles? Groupwork issues? Lots of things to write about. It doesn't have to be a dazzling experience where a shocking obstacle was overcome. You learn big things through life's minor struggles and setbacks - the adcoms know this. You also would have had to demonstrate grit to maintain strong grades and achieve a competitive MCAT.

Red flag here. Your post history indicates that you had already participated in a cycle, was waitlisted, then never got off the waitlist. Now you're telling us a different story.

Look, I agree with everything you are saying. Please don't take me so literally. I was only speaking rhetorically in order to make a point, and the point was that no, everyone hasn't struggled, that shouldn't be disqualifying (even though adcoms certainly like to see it), and, knowing that adcoms like to see it, a decent writer will be able to work around it, and, no, @Goro probably isn't so awesome that he'd definitely be able to sniff it out during an interview.

This has nothing to do with maturity, interview skills, people skills, etc., which are all separate issues that could also definitely trip up an applicant during the process. Most of us have indeed dealt with many struggles, large and small, but, unbelievable as it might seem, there are a lucky few who were born smart, wealthy, good looking, lucky, etc., and their biggest struggle is convincing the rest of us that they haven't really had to overcome any challenges or adversity up to the point of med school application.

For the record, no, I'm still a wannabe applicant. I did not apply last cycle, and was roundly criticized by some on SDN for having the nerve to share what little I know about the process without being an actual applicant. I NEVER claimed to have applied anywhere, and never claimed to have been WL anywhere, so I'm not sure where you think you are getting that from.

I was all set to go this cycle until COVID, and now think I'm going to hold off another year (not final yet!) because I still don't have a MCAT score (soon - canceled and rescheduled four times since April!) haven't had meaningful activities since March, and have no idea when I will be able to resume them, so think my ECs will be on the weak side if I were to throw in an application this year. I'm not complaining, and I'm not taking a poll to see what SDN thinks I should do, but I am saying this to clear up any misconceptions about my status, red flags, etc., and to also point out that I actually follow my own advice on occasion (not applying without a score, being patient and realizing med school isn't going anywhere, betting that if activities don't resume by next spring, schools will in fact be more accommodating of light EC hours since many more people will be impacted than are now, etc.).

 

[Damson]

Look, I agree with everything you are saying. Please don't take me so literally. I was only speaking rhetorically in order to make a point, and the point was that no, everyone hasn't struggled, that shouldn't be disqualifying (even though adcoms certainly like to see it), and, knowing that adcoms like to see it, a decent writer will be able to work around it, and, no, @Goro probably isn't so awesome that he'd definitely be able to sniff it out during an interview.

This has nothing to do with maturity, interview skills, people skills, etc., which are all separate issues that could also definitely trip up an applicant during the process. Most of us have indeed dealt with many struggles, large and small, but, unbelievable as it might seem, there are a lucky few who were born smart, wealthy, good looking, lucky, etc., and their biggest struggle is convincing the rest of us that they haven't really had to overcome any challenges or adversity up to the point of med school application.

For the record, no, I'm still a wannabe applicant. I did not apply last cycle, and was roundly criticized by some on SDN for having the nerve to share what little I know about the process without being an actual applicant. I NEVER claimed to have applied anywhere, and never claimed to have been WL anywhere, so I'm not sure where you think you are getting that from.

I was all set to go this cycle until COVID, and now think I'm going to hold off another year (not final yet!) because I still don't have a MCAT score (soon - canceled and rescheduled four times since April!) haven't had meaningful activities since March, and have no idea when I will be able to resume them, so think my ECs will be on the weak side if I were to throw in an application this year. I'm not complaining, and I'm not taking a poll to see what SDN thinks I should do, but I am saying this to clear up any misconceptions about my status, red flags, etc., and to also point out that I actually follow my own advice on occasion (not applying without a score, being patient and realizing med school isn't going anywhere, betting that if activities don't resume by next spring, schools will in fact be more accommodating of light EC hours since many more people will be impacted than are now, etc.).

Got it.

Still not sure about the "work around it...Goro won't be able to sniff it out" part. It doesn't sound like something we should be doing

Regarding the ECs, you can do some remotely. Found this one a while ago - The Best Volunteer Opportunities for Pre-meds During Coronavirus (Without Leaving Home)

Also telescribing

 

[KnightDoc]

Got it.

Still not sure about the "work around it...Goro won't be able to sniff it out" part. It doesn't sound like something we should be doing

Regarding the ECs, you can do some remotely. Found this one a while ago - The Best Volunteer Opportunities for Pre-meds During Coronavirus (Without Leaving Home)

Also telescribing

I'm not doing nothing, but my research was canceled and my clinical is on hold, so I'm nervous. I was so frustrated that I couldn't take the MCAT in time to have a score back by the end of May that I just decided not to submit the primary in May while I saw what happened. And what happened is that things have not gone back to normal all summer, and I still really don't know what's going to happen with school, although they seem to think we are going back in a few weeks. 🙂

By the way, don't worry about me -- I have plenty to write about in terms of tackling challenges. I was just trying to make the point that some people really do have it way easier than others. I totally understand what adcoms seek to get out of the prompts. I thought I was just pointing out the obvious -- that people who feel their challenges are trivial will embellish, rather than make a submission that is less than compelling, and, if they are decent writers and story tellers, @Goro won't know the difference. I am not for a minute advocating that anyone lie in any way, shape or form on an application.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I'm not doing nothing, but my research was canceled and my clinical is on hold, so I'm nervous. I was so frustrated that I couldn't take the MCAT in time to have a score back by the end of May that I just decided not to submit the primary in May while I saw what happened. And what happened is that things have not gone back to normal all summer, and I still really don't know what's going to happen with school, although they seem to think we are going back in a few weeks. 🙂

By the way, don't worry about me -- I have plenty to write about in terms of tackling challenges. I was just trying to make the point that some people really do have it way easier than others. I totally understand what adcoms seek to get out of the prompts. I thought I was just pointing out the obvious -- that people who feel their challenges are trivial will embellish, rather than make a submission that is less than compelling, and, if they are decent writers and story tellers, @Goro won't know the difference. I am not for a minute advocating that anyone lie in any way, shape or form on an application.

are you going to write about your SDN challenges?😉

 

[KnightDoc]

are you going to write about your SDN challenges?😉

I'm not even going to write about my EC challenges. Believe me, honestly, I have plenty to write about!!