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gonnif said:
1) Only on SDN does the position of authorship particularly matter.
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While I don't take issue with the intent behind this (any authorship is great for a premed, people should def chill out), authorship position does matter in academia as a whole (though mostly first/last author, it doesn't matter as much in the middle). How much it matters probably depends on specific field/specialty/academic goals. Any authorship is always something to be proud of though
 
brainscience2 said:
i realize the latter is viewed better, but is the former still given credit (if the authorship is high)?
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I could send my grocery list to Nature on a brown paper bag, written in crayon, and truthfully state that I have a "Manuscript in submission" on my CV.

So, nope. In press or published are the only things that count.
 
Dave1980 said:
and it probably wouldn't be the worst paper they ever received.
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This just reminded me of the time I was reviewing abstracts for a conference and somebody submitted an entirely serious abstract about raising the dead? I think? it was bizarre and also didn't have much to do with the conference topic in the first place
 
LOL how is referencing authorship being neurotic

so there's no benefit whatsoever to it being submitted / no submission at all? what if you had a strong LOR to back up your work saying it was likely to be accepted for publication?
 
brainscience2 said:
LOL how is referencing authorship being neurotic

so there's no benefit whatsoever to it being submitted / no submission at all? what if you had a strong LOR to back up your work saying it was likely to be accepted for publication?
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no...a paper that isn't yet accepted is a "research experience". that. is. all.
 
brainscience2 said:
LOL how is referencing authorship being neurotic

so there's no benefit whatsoever to it being submitted / no submission at all? what if you had a strong LOR to back up your work saying it was likely to be accepted for publication?
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As hard as it is to accept, no, there is no benefit.

"Likely to be accepted" is mere wishful thinking.
 
i see 🙁 if the paper gets accepted during the app cycle though, will the update help as much as if it were initially on my app or does it not help as much? (let's say hypothetically at a school someone gets an interview at, and the school takes updates)
 
brainscience2 said:
i see 🙁 if the paper gets accepted during the app cycle though, will the update help as much as if it were initially on my app or does it not help as much? (let's say hypothetically at a school someone gets an interview at, and the school takes updates)
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Yes if it gets accepted it will probably help. A publication is update worthy.
 
@AnatomyGrey12 : will it help as much as if it were initially on the app though? debating whether or not to submit a bit later and have the publication, or earlier w/o it (and then update). which would you all suggest in this case (for research-focused schools)
 
brainscience2 said:
i see 🙁 if the paper gets accepted during the app cycle though, will the update help as much as if it were initially on my app or does it not help as much? (let's say hypothetically at a school someone gets an interview at, and the school takes updates)
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Mid-cycle publications tend to be neat ways to segue into a 'Hey, don't forget about me' update email. There have been threads elsewhere about how much or how little impact they actually bring. But it tends to be generally safe communications.

David D, MD - USMLE and MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors
 
@MedSchoolTutors : thanks for letting me know. so i do expect to have another publication later during the year (aside from my current project), in that case would you still suggest i wait to submit (to have a publication on my initial app) or do updates completely?
 
brainscience2 said:
@MedSchoolTutors : thanks for letting me know. so i do expect to have another publication later during the year (aside from my current project), in that case would you still suggest i wait to submit (to have a publication on my initial app) or do updates completely?
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I imagine opinions vary but from my POV a general rule would be to not let your initial app lapse into being behind the curve just to hold on for one particular thing. Now if we are talking a small amount of time, sure I would wait.

I will defer to others who are more in tune with the day to day details of this completely wacky pandemic cycle to determine if your particular projected delay would be significant or insignificant.

David D, MD - USMLE and MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors
 
brainscience2 said:
@MedSchoolTutors : thanks for letting me know. so i do expect to have another publication later during the year (aside from my current project), in that case would you still suggest i wait to submit (to have a publication on my initial app) or do updates completely?
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this is obviously your 1st paper. it may take MONTHS to get a response and then it will likely need revisions. so unless you are cool applying in 2022 just submit the app
 
brainscience2 said:
@AnatomyGrey12 : will it help as much as if it were initially on the app though? debating whether or not to submit a bit later and have the publication, or earlier w/o it (and then update). which would you all suggest in this case (for research-focused schools)
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We're not going to tell you what you want to hear. A submission doesn't count for squat.

When it's accepted (and that doesn't mean "sent back for revisions"), send an update to schools that accept updates. Not all do.
 
@Goro : so the part you quoted was asking more about whether the impact of a publication changes if it's in the initial app vs. if it's updated (let's say not necessarily in the context of my exact situation). do you have any thoughts about that? assuming the school takes updates
 
@Goro : right so i get that it's update-worthy, but was wondering if it is MORE impactful in the initial app than in an update. i totally understand though if the question doesn't have a definitive answer
 
If you have it when you are doing the primary include it. Why would You wait? If the publication comes through later, it’s a nice update for schools that take them. I think I’m missing some part of your question. ‍
 
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@candbgirl : right so i get that it's update-worthy material now, but still don't have a clear answer as to whether it is more impactful if on the initial app than in an update. eg having it on the initial app gets you a +2 boost (whatever that means), through an update gets you a +1 boost (still a boost, but less than if it were on the initial app). does that clarify things?
 
brainscience2 said:
@candbgirl : right so i get that it's update-worthy material now, but still don't have a clear answer as to whether it is more impactful if on the initial app than in an update. eg having it on the initial app gets you a +2 boost (whatever that means), through an update gets you a +1 boost (still a boost, but less than if it were on the initial app). does that clarify things?
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*sigh* This isn't rocket science, brain.

Having a pub on your app will help a bit. It's not going to make the Admissions Dean run out of his/her office scream to their Admin "We've got to invite this kid, they've got a publication!"

Research is of only moderate help anyway overall, and counts most at the research who.....um, sex workers. But for them, you've still got have a stellar app anyway.

Capeesh?
 
brainscience2 said:
@candbgirl : right so i get that it's update-worthy material now, but still don't have a clear answer as to whether it is more impactful if on the initial app than in an update. eg having it on the initial app gets you a +2 boost (whatever that means), through an update gets you a +1 boost (still a boost, but less than if it were on the initial app). does that clarify things?
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It's worth more if you are published in the initial app obviously because its a completed publication earlier. Your first impression matters a lot with the apps, schools will disregard your app fast if they don't like it, and an update won't likely make them reconsider every app that they have already soft R'd.

A pub mid cycle obviously helps though, it just is clear that it does not help as much as having one already before applying.
 
So I applied last year while my publication was in review, then sent an update in when it was accepted prior to II and was accepted. How much did it matter? How much better would it have been if I had it on the initial app? Who knows. You're asking extremely specific, hypothetical questions where there's really not much way to compare or tell.

I will say that if I had been applying when our paper was submitted the first time to the first journal, I would have been waiting literally a year to submit my app by the time it was actually accepted (not even published!!) lol. Don't even think about waiting just to get that extra boost, not worth it.
 
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