142K new grad RN salary at STANFORD. 226K RN top rate. 36 hours per week, free medical.

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Stanfordpackardvoice.com

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Think about this the next time you are busting your behind at WG and CVS.
PSLF qualifying too I believe.
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confettiflyer said:
It’s absolutely a new grad market for nurses, like…holy cow.

But I will say, it’s tough work, I wouldn’t be able to do it. Nurses earn every penny given what they deal with.
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This. Being a nurse is a lot tougher than a pharmacist. The stuff they do is incredible.
 
It’s supply and demand. Nurses are in demand that’s why they are making as much. Pharmacists can’t even if we unionize.

Also that salary while good, isn’t life changing in that part of California.
 
Chrish said:
It’s supply and demand. Nurses are in demand that’s why they are making as much. Pharmacists can’t even if we unionize.

Also that salary while good, isn’t life changing in that part of California.
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It’s probably more than half of what a Stanford IM attending would make and at least double a resident.
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
Why don’t pharmacy workers unionize? That is the only reason wages are this high
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Why doesn’t all labor unionize? Politics (and concentrated efforts by employers) would be my guess.
 
Are these proposals or have they already been approved?
 
owlegrad said:
Why doesn’t all labor unionize? Politics (and concentrated efforts by employers) would be my guess.
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i think it’s because if physicians unionized, they would be demonized, called greedy etc. by the public to an even greater extent than they are already.
 
I think the reason that it is hard for pharmacists is that, traditionally, the industry has been dominated by private practice. If some pharmacists are making money off of the labor of other pharmacists, there is never going to be an impetus to unionize. As far as I know, nurses have rarely made money off of other nurses.
 
Chrish said:
Also that salary while good, isn’t life changing in that part of California.
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36hrs on that job listing means 3 x 12hr shifts, that’s only three round trip commutes a week….I’d absolutely commute my happy butt from BFE Central Valley (Tracy, CA — median house price $820,000) vs. actually living in Palo Alto (median house price $4,000,000) or Redwood City next door (median house price $1,800,000).

You can always take the ACE train to Fremont and catch the medical center shuttle from there, if you don’t want to drive it.

Source: Realtor.com March 2022 data
 
JustFillIt said:
Good question - someone needs to find a voice and start organizing.
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I actually called some union organizers in my area a few months ago and couldn't get any to call me back.

We did get a few dropping by stores trying to gauge tech interest shortly after, not sure if it was related. The techs didn't really show any interest though.
 
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WorthlessOxygen said:
I actually called some union organizers in my area a few months ago and couldn't get any to call me back.

We did get a few dropping by stores trying to gauge tech interest shortly after, not sure if it was related. The techs didn't really show any interest though.
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Well count me in - if it gets off the ground please let us know
 
JustFillIt said:
Well count me in - if it gets off the ground please let us know
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Shane jermonski (sp?) the accidental pharmacist on FB, has been trying, I just don't know how you do it unless you get the a big union to take it on with the structure already built
 
I floated the idea at work with all the staff pharmacists once and you would have thought I was suggesting a murder/suicide pact. There was like negative interest. One pharmacist was literally afraid of being fired for even discussing it. Another one figured the dues would cost more than anything we would get from it. Another tried to make it a joke and just didn’t want to engage on it at all.
 
Is this what their union is proposing to end the strike? Did I read (skim) that correctly?

This is also in CA... so the inflated wage makes sense.
 
I've long said that a pharmacist union will never happen but the pandemic was the final nail in the coffin for that pipedream. The profession in 2021 had the most leverage it will ever have when the government decided that pharmacies were the best way to push out the vaccine to the American public. All we had to do was tell the government as a collective body "Hey thanks for choosing us for vaccine roll out but your health payors don't even pay us for basic services we're trained to do through school and current practice. Until it becomes law that we're paid fairly and appropriately for doing our job we won't give a single dose of the vaccine." Unfortunately the big groups like NCPA and APhA took the bait that we would do this for free and be labeled as heroes of the pandemic. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Now payors are making vaccine administration reimbursement damn near impossible. Uninsured patients net pharmacies nothing due to a lack of federal funding. Physicians are ordering horse dewormer for patients and if a pharmacy refuses to fill it they'll post the pharmacists full name and home address on twitter. Patients are fighting pharmacists. Attacks on health care professionals at their highest level in 50 years. Physicians are suing state boards for the right to dispense out of their office. Physicians are fighting Congress to prevent them from paying what some states already license us to do.

It makes life great as an employer. Amazon gets kept up at night with the fear that their warehouses will unionize. I don't have to worry about that at all.
 
(Exasperated Sigh). Pharmacists were unionized in the 1980s through early 2000s. CAPHA under Johnson was directly why the CALPLEX was kept as a way of controlling labor supply. The major reason behind the wage increases of the early 2000s was due to two strikes, one in Chicago and one in NYC that so crippled Walgreens and CVS that major changes in the labor allocation and tech ratios were done.

The Millennials threw that all away and deserve what they get. I have no problem with the current state of management affairs as there are always new, poor, stupid pharmacists ready to replace.

It's so bad now that there are now mandated staffing levels from the Board, because we can't organize ourselves.

Physicians never needed to as their professional organizations work for them. Read The Social Transformation of American Medicine to understand what the AMA actually is.
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
It’s probably more than half of what a Stanford IM attending would make and at least double a resident.
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The peds attendings are almost assuredly making less. I know of a peds heme-onc attending (3 year residency and 3 year fellowship) that was offered 130K a year at an academic California program.
 
qwerty89 said:
The peds attendings are almost assuredly making less. I know of a peds heme-onc attending (3 year residency and 3 year fellowship) that was offered 130K a year at an academic California program.
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Yeah, but it’s definitely made up for in future income. Kind of a weird snapshot comparison.
 
confettiflyer said:
Yeah, but it’s definitely made up for in future income. Kind of a weird snapshot comparison.
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As much as nurses should get paid for what they deserve, this is rediculous.
50-70 k is what they deseve with maybe 80-90k if they are really experienced.

Most family medicine doctors make only in low 200's. They have a lot more training than the nurses. Did harder residencies, did multiple board exams and probably did the most demanding eduction. Look at nursing track... and i dont know how that even compares to this...
 
I have family members that are nurses...Stop glorifying Nursing jobs as hardest job on the planet.. In terms of education, RN's need just basic chemistry and biology and even that is honestly not even required in their every day job- there is no decision making at all, they are asked to do something and they do it.... I am sure high school educated students can do these jobs with few months of training.
 
qwerty89 said:
What's made up for in future income? Academic peds attendings are notoriously underpaid.
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voxveritatisetlucis said:
These are not residents or fellows. Attendings
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Derp, reread that and misread. That was some legit confirmation bias on my end…I thought there was no way my new grad/new hire pharmacists would beat physician pay. Guess I was wrong. Statement retracted.
 
Sleepingdoc said:
As much as nurses should get paid for what they deserve, this is rediculous.
50-70 k is what they deseve with maybe 80-90k if they are really experienced.

Most family medicine doctors make only in low 200's. They have a lot more training than the nurses. Did harder residencies, did multiple board exams and probably did the most demanding eduction. Look at nursing track... and i dont know how that even compares to this...
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I feel you, but it’s pure supply and demand. And $50k for nurse? That’s less than what my pharmacy techs make.

I mean hedge fund managers provide pretty much zero value to society and require minimal schooling/training relative to HCPs, but there they are out-earning everyone here.
 
I tell anybody thinking about going to Medical these days that being a nurse is the best job in medicine. Though, I agree with some other posters that $130,000 in Palo Alto is the equivalent of about 80 or 90,000 in Las Vegas. Given the horrible economics of fee-for-service medicine these days, I would go to nursing school if I were starting college now. The ROI is so much better.

Medicare and the insurance companies have wanted to destroy physicians for decades. I’m not exactly sure why, but they seem hell-bent on that goal. APPs are valuable, but not that much cheaper, if at all when productivity is considered. In an emergency, nobody yells, “stat, get the nurse practitioner!”

Medicare and the insurance companies have zero interest in quality. They just want complete control and maximum profit margin. I can’t blame them as that is the goal of their company.

But anybody thinking about going to medical school these days and taking on $700,000 of student loans and then be completely dependent on United healthcare, Medicaid, and Medicare for their existence, doesn’t seem like a solid plan.
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
I think the main point is that most nursing salaries are not organic but rather the products of unionization (ie extortion).
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I think the RN market is much more complex And that unionization isn’t a significan’t factor in increasing RN wages. RN’s have multiple escape routes from clinical medicine, pressure from hospitals with the FLEX systems and COVID have pushed the RN labor market to other things. I would also argue that fewer people go into nursing actually plan on being a nurse.
 
The silent generation and greatest generation helped bring forth unionization in the US and since the 60s had been on a decline due to a number of factors. I come from UMWA background and I know first hand what the union did to help many families with health, wage, and education benefits. Seems like we go thru a pendulum on labor vs. employer and we are certainly on the employer arc. The question is which direction are we going in and with Amazon and Starbucks having their union glass ceiling cracked then I might say as a nation that labor is gaining control.

Bottom line is that I'm from a blue collar family and I know the shoulders I stand on and I stand with ALL unions.
 
What is going on with nursing hourly rates here in Las Vegas is purely organic supply and demand. A couple hospitals are unionized here, but most are not. I don’t know what is going on at other parts of the country, but nurses here in Las Vegas have seen at least a 30% hourly pay increase over the last year. Many nurses of quit, gone into aesthetic nursing, or other non-bedside nursing careers. Nursing school applications have not increased nearly as much as the attrition rate. Given all the fear of dying from Covid that the main stream media put out there, who would want to go to nursing school now? And yes, some nurses did die from Covid, so for the average high school student, it is a real concern.
 
Notice how when the union negotiated higher wages it’s “extortion” but when the employers use their power to keep wages low it’s “organic”.

Who is extorting who in the employment arrangement? Profit only exists if the employee is being extorted!
 
owlegrad said:
Profit only exists if the employee is being extorted!
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Without profit, there often isn't a business, so long-term everyone loses. You can delay profit, but eventually everyone wants to get paid. Even Wall Street darling Amazon, which famously operated without profits for decades to increase market share, isn't immune. Recent Amazon stock declines based on a loss show the market wasn't having it.
I don't mind a company having a profit as long as they are not greedy. I remember thinking that Rite Aid could close at any time.
Personally, I like companies with healthy balance sheets that pay their employees extraordinarily well.
 
owlegrad said:
Notice how when the union negotiated higher wages it’s “extortion” but when the employers use their power to keep wages low it’s “organic”.

Who is extorting who in the employment arrangement? Profit only exists if the employee is being extorted!
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I was going to comment on that. It isn't "organic" but "exploitative" and anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.
 
Well damn, these salaries are real.

May 2, 2022 – New Contracts Ratified

We are pleased to share that a three-year contract with CRONA has now been ratified. After extensive discussions, we were able to reach a contract that reflects our shared priorities and enhances existing benefits supporting our nurses’ health, well-being, and ongoing professional development. We look forward to welcoming our union-represented nurses back tomorrow, Tuesday, May 3. We appreciate the incredible effort that our entire health care workforce put forward last week.
 
confettiflyer said:
I mean hedge fund managers provide pretty much zero value to society and require minimal schooling/training relative to HCPs, but there they are out-earning everyone here.
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Same with a lot of tech workers in the region. They get paid as much as these Stanford nurses or more to work 15-20 hours a week from home on projects that contribute little or nothing to society.
 
PharmtoCS said:
Same with a lot of tech workers in the region. They get paid as much as these Stanford nurses or more to work 15-20 hours a week from home on projects that contribute little or nothing to society.
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Welcome to life. This is like when people complain nfl qbs get paid too much
 
alpha12 said:
Welcome to life. This is like when people complain nfl qbs get paid too much
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If you can’t beat them, join them. The market needs fewer pharmacist and more software engineers right now.
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
I think the main point is that most nursing salaries are not organic but rather the products of unionization (ie extortion).
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And they make near/at family doc salary. Nuts. These nurses are pretending to be bootleg doctors with the training of a nurse.

Physicians were the ethical gatekeepers against hospital CEO's taking complete control. Putting docs out of power with these robot drone nurses will finally give them what they want. Barely passable duct tape-grade level of care, whilst they can rack in the $$$ all to themselves.
 
C’mon guys, perspective (40hrs/week no OT):

Annual wages (rounded):

Minimum wage: $31k
Security guards: $70-80k
Pharm tech: $70-90k but most I know boosted their income to >$120k with available OT
Low income legal definition, 2021 (family of 4): $118k
RN new grad as above: $142k
Pharmacists: $180k-$220k
People in tech: $200k-$400k avg

Source: people I know, not scientific, cross checked with public data (all State of California employees have their compensation published by law).
 
PharmtoCS said:
Same with a lot of tech workers in the region. They get paid as much as these Stanford nurses or more to work 15-20 hours a week from home on projects that contribute little or nothing to society.
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As long as someone pays, it’s valuable.

It’s like niche kinky porn, I’m not into some of that stuff, but if someone pays, good on them!
 
lord999 said:
(Exasperated Sigh). Pharmacists were unionized in the 1980s through early 2000s. CAPHA under Johnson was directly why the CALPLEX was kept as a way of controlling labor supply. The major reason behind the wage increases of the early 2000s was due to two strikes, one in Chicago and one in NYC that so crippled Walgreens and CVS that major changes in the labor allocation and tech ratios were done.

The Millennials threw that all away and deserve what they get. I have no problem with the current state of management affairs as there are always new, poor, stupid pharmacists ready to replace.

It's so bad now that there are now mandated staffing levels from the Board, because we can't organize ourselves.

Physicians never needed to as their professional organizations work for them. Read The Social Transformation of American Medicine to understand what the AMA actually is.
Click to expand...
Although I agree with most of this - I don't think the milenials are the cause for the downfall of the unions in Chicago, I was living downstate illinois (non-union) at the time of the wags strike in 2005. That one falls on gen-x who caved to the almighty $$
 
confettiflyer said:
C’mon guys, perspective (40hrs/week no OT):

Annual wages (rounded):

Minimum wage: $31k
Security guards: $70-80k
Pharm tech: $70-90k but most I know boosted their income to >$120k with available OT
Low income legal definition, 2021 (family of 4): $118k
RN new grad as above: $142k
Pharmacists: $180k-$220k
People in tech: $200k-$400k avg

Source: people I know, not scientific, cross checked with public data (all State of California employees have their compensation published by law).
Click to expand...

What's interesting is that in CA, although the absolute values are high, the relative positioning is roughly the same with other states. For the higher end salaries though, there is a flattening, but physicians and productive lawyers make competitive wages out there too. What used to be fairly out of line but has become the norm is tech salaries, but most metropolitans have caught up for tech given cost of living and competitiveness areas.
 
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