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If you truly are giving up on Ortho, one of the best things you can do is have your Ortho mentor write you a letter that specifically states "XXX has decided to apply to DR, we are sad that he has decided to no longer apply for ortho but support him in this new career direction". Needless to say, your Ortho mentor is not going to do that and support another application in Ortho.

You will also need radiology experience, and LOR's to support.
 
It depends on how much FOMO you'd have about not doing ortho. Ortho and rads are wildly different.

But sure, it's no problem to change. I'd still have your research mentor state in their letter that you're not applying to Ortho.

Or, apply to both ortho and rads. That's a bit tricky (and you then need to deal with prelims also)
 
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It will be hard to "hide" your ortho year if you apply for rads (both use the same ERAS system and will ask about why you took time off). Most residencies, including those in rads, don't want to see applicants that are applying to them as a backup specialty. And when people dual apply, most programs assume that the less competitive specialty is someone's backup; that is, most rads programs will assume you're applying to rads as a backup to ortho if they see a lot of ortho research in your app since they know that rads is on average easier to match than ortho. So yes, I do think this will hurt your chances for rads (but that alone shouldn't be enough to get you completely off their rank lists) since programs take perceived specialty interest into account and assume that someone will be unhappy to match into their second choice specialty. If your ortho research involved some imaging you may be able to spin it off as also radiology related. But if you want to apply rads I would do several radiology rotations so it doesn't look like you just did the bare minimum to put together a last minute rads app. Though with your stats if you apply broadly for rads you still have a good chance of matching somewhere.
 
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ScreensOrScrews said:
Honestly, I feel like a huge part of me wants to apply DR instead of ortho bc there's a smaller chance I'll have to SOAP. Seeing what my original cohort is going through right now is scaring the poop out of me
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I had an application that screamed IM/Onc (due to targeted pubs, ECs) and switched to radiology at the end of my third year prior to SubI. Told all my IM mentors that I am going into radiology instead and they were fully supportive and mentioned this in my LoR, which helped massively. I strongly agree with NaPD's advice. You gotta make up your mind in ortho vs rads relatively soon and tailor your application towards one of the fields to maximize your chances.

ScreensOrScrews said:
To get radiology letters, I would probably do an away rotation in addition to my home program rotation. I'd also probably see if I could take a dedicated research month to have some DR projects to talk about during interviews.
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If you're thinking DR, away rotations are unnecessary. DR actually cares about clinical letters more than radiology letters, since you don't do much in the reading room other than sitting behind a resident or attending. You can obtain radiology letters from rads research mentors or IR physicians whom you have worked with clinically and will attest your desire to pursue DR. Again the common theme here is that your LoR writers are aware and fully supportive of your passion for DR.
 
US-MD (assumption), average/mediocre clinical grades, great step scores, decent orthopedic surgery research (from cursory glance) who likes to work hard, but feels burnt out current in his M4/5 (research year).

1.) Will an Ortho RY hurt me for DR?
No. Radiology, like Neurology is not particularly competitive but they want to see interest in the field even if that doesn't translate to 8 PubMed indexed papers. What will hurt you is if during M5, you go down the traditional Ortho path and do 2-3 Ortho electives and 0-1 radiology months. You may still match ultimately especially if you get the most out of a radiology month, but the Radiology programs may question your commitment to their program. That may be offset but your CV but who knows. If you spend M5 doing DR rotations (electives, auditions, etc.) you'll succeed easily in DR.

2.) Issue of Non-Ortho mentors:
You have from now (April) until September to email the head of radiology. Find a way to get 2 months of radiology rotations/experience. Get a letter during each of these rotations. How that is accomplished requires some creativity on your part.

Other Advice:
-Transition to MSK Rad projects now.
 
Redpancreas said:
US-MD (assumption), average/mediocre clinical grades, great step scores, decent orthopedic surgery research (from cursory glance) who likes to work hard, but feels burnt out current in his M4/5 (research year).

1.) Will an Ortho RY hurt me for DR?
No. Radiology, like Neurology is not particularly competitive but they want to see interest in the field even if that doesn't translate to 8 PubMed indexed papers. What will hurt you is if during M5, you go down the traditional Ortho path and do 2-3 Ortho electives and 0-1 radiology months. You may still match ultimately especially if you get the most out of a radiology month, but the Radiology programs may question your commitment to their program. That may be offset but your CV but who knows. If you spend M5 doing DR rotations (electives, auditions, etc.) you'll succeed easily in DR.

2.) Issue of Non-Ortho mentors:
You have from now (April) until September to email the head of radiology. Find a way to get 2 months of radiology rotations/experience. Get a letter during each of these rotations. How that is accomplished requires some creativity on your part.

Other Advice:
-Transition to MSK Rad projects now.
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It’s not Ortho level but it’s not the case anymore that radiology isn’t particularly competitive. This year saw a sharp rise in applications and increase in unmatched applicants and the hot job market means that trend is likely to continue. I think OP is set up well but I would caution against assuming the competitiveness level over the past 5 years will stay the same.
 
odyssey2 said:
It’s not Ortho level but it’s not the case anymore that radiology isn’t particularly competitive. This year saw a sharp rise in applications and increase in unmatched applicants and the hot job market means that trend is likely to continue. I think OP is set up well but I would caution against assuming the competitiveness level over the past 5 years will stay the same.
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I heard this during my M4-post match period too. (Damn, 260/270, research, didn't match rads, what happened). Maybe it's a bit more competitive now OP. I will amend my point to say it's similar to Neurology but definitely more competitive. I still think it's very doable for OP if he commits to it.
 
ScreensOrScrews said:
Hey thanks for the detailed response!

I am actually in between 3rd and 4th year, so technically will be applying as an M4 (not M5). I am setting up my 4th year schedule now (its due Tuesday) and was planning on doing 2 DR electives (one general and one subspecialty) and possibly one medicine elective. That way I could get 3 letters for ERAS.

Does this sound okay?
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You really only need one letter from a diagnostic radiologist. Unless you've done research projects or some other extracurricular activity with them, it's hard for DR letters to be that meaningful since you don't really have any responsibilities on your rotation. As long as you think it'll be good, one letter should be from your research mentor. Then you need 1-2 clinical letters. Since you've been off for a research year, you should just do an early rotation in 4th year to get one. I'd recommend a medicine sub-i and make it known to your senior and your attending that you want to get honors and get a letter of rec. Could also do an IR sub-i if your school has one.
 
ScreensOrScrews said:
Hey thanks for the detailed response!

I am actually in between 3rd and 4th year, so technically will be applying as an M4 (not M5). I am setting up my 4th year schedule now (its due Tuesday) and was planning on doing 2 DR electives (one general and one subspecialty) and possibly one medicine elective. That way I could get 3 letters for ERAS.

Does this sound okay?
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I counted M4 as research year. Semantics.
 
ScreensOrScrews said:
Hello everyone,

Just wanted to provide an update and ask a couple questions since you've all been so helpful.

4th year rotations went well! I got a letter from my 4th year medicine rotation (which I honored) and should get 2 more clinical letters from 3rd year rotations as well as 1 DR letter and 1 research letter.

Was wondering as I am picking my schools, could anyone suggest programs that are known for teaching (Southeast region)?

I have heard from many residents that some programs do not teach a lot and expect independent study to be the primary method of learning.

I'd really like to go to a program in which I am being taught how to read as opposed to having to teach myself. Of course, at the end of the day, I will be happy to match at any program 🙂

Thanks in advance!
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Any of the major academic programs in the SE should be good for teaching: Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt. UAB is an underrated program.
 
Are you completely giving up on Ortho? Or you still want it? I wouldn’t worry too much about matching into rads. You should be able to get a spot. But if you still like Ortho, I would keep pushing.
 
DarkHorizon said:
Are you completely giving up on Ortho? Or you still want it? I wouldn’t worry too much about matching into rads. You should be able to get a spot. But if you still like Ortho, I would keep pushing.
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Yea completely hopped off the ortho train and applied DR only! Sitting on 2 DR interviews but no intern spots :/

Still pretty early in the cycle but feels bad seeing all the uber competitive applicants already racking interviews in on the reddit spreadsheet *cries
 
ScreensOrScrews said:
Yea completely hopped off the ortho train and applied DR only! Sitting on 2 DR interviews but no intern spots :/

Still pretty early in the cycle but feels bad seeing all the uber competitive applicants already racking interviews in on the reddit spreadsheet *cries
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radiology has not even sent IV really yet, at least i hope
 
workaholic007 said:
thats pretty solid tbh, I'm at 3DR as well, and one was away
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honestly, so regretting not doing any aways....good on you for you doing them

based on the reddit sheet it seems like we aren't doing well, but hard to say how representative the people who post on there are of the total applicant pool
 
ScreensOrScrews said:
honestly, so regretting not doing any aways....good on you for you doing them

based on the reddit sheet it seems like we aren't doing well, but hard to say how representative the people who post on there are of the total applicant pool
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why not doing well? i dont get how u assumethat
 
ScreensOrScrews said:
with your stats dude, I would be chillin haha 240/260 with AOA is solid for DR
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my situation is a bit unique as in I need to match a certain location away from my home medical school or quality of life will be significantly different. But thank you
 
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