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Is there a scholarship attached to the BS/MD?

Several friends with good stats have applied out and entered better schools or received scholarships. With your stats, I'd roll the dice and try for the same.

Get shadowing, COVID isn't an acceptable answer anymore
 
Kracin said:
Is there a scholarship attached to the BS/MD?

Several friends with good stats have applied out and entered better schools or received scholarships. With your stats, I'd roll the dice and try for the same.

Get shadowing, COVID isn't an acceptable answer anymore
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voxveritatisetlucis said:
517 isn’t really what it used to be and really isn’t competitive for top schools without great ECs or a hook.

Top 50 doesn’t give a significant enough bump in opportunities to justify ir

YMMV
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Djax99 said:
Yea I personally do not believe I am competitive for T20s since I do not have killer stats and I am also ORM. However, do you think it is worth it to apply into T50s/do you think I would be competitive?

I am heavily interested in applying early decision to my state school which has a median MCAT of 513 (I am above the 75th percentile) and GPA of 3.7X (I am above 90th percentile). Do you think it would be worth it to apply ED or even regular?
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Did you meet with the school to discuss your EDP chances?

It is likely better to just take the guaranteed acceptance and avoid this hassle.
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
517 isn’t really what it used to be and really isn’t competitive for top schools without great ECs or a hook.

Top 50 doesn’t give a significant enough bump in opportunities to justify ir

YMMV
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EDIT: I'm the one spewing nonsense! The 516 # in my little brain was Harvard's 25th %ile.

And OP, saying T50 is like saying T100. Your school can get you where you want to go, so stick with the sure thing.
 
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Goro said:
According to Harvard's median for acceptees was 516 last year. Please refrain from spewing nonsense.

And OP, saying T50 is like saying T100. Your school can get you where you want to go, so stick with the sure thing.
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How is it nonsense? you really think that people who get into Harvard with a 516 are average joes?

They probably are Olympians, nature/science/cell pubs, nonprofit founders, sons/daughters of senators, valedictorians from Ivy League schools, SEC football player etc.

The average applicant without these ECs should have at least a 520 for top schools.
 
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voxveritatisetlucis said:
How is it nonsense? you really think that people who get into Harvard with a 516 are average joes?

They probably are Olympians, nature/science/cell pubs, nonprofit founders, sons/daughters of senators, valedictorians from Ivy League schools, SEC football player etc.

The average applicant without these ECs should have at least a 520 for top schools.
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Goro said:
According to Harvard's median for acceptees was 516 last year. Please refrain from spewing nonsense.

And OP, saying T50 is like saying T100. Your school can get you where you want to go, so stick with the sure thing.
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Djax99 said:
My state school doesn’t review applicants for competitiveness or candidacy. I tried reaching out and they responded with that

Just interested because I’m pretty far above their median statistics and they interview a fair number of applicants in RD already (40% of instate applicants get interviewed)
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I wouldn’t recommend hoping for your state school then unless you are from a “lucky state” like many of the public schools in the Southeast (Kentucky, Alabama, Arkansas etc), and other less populated areas.
 
Also @op, I wasn’t implying a 517 is low by any means. It’s a great score, but top 20 schools are extremely competitive.
 
chilly_md said:
I wouldn’t recommend hoping for your state school then unless you are from a “lucky state” like many of the public schools in the Southeast (Kentucky, Alabama, Arkansas etc), and other less populated areas.
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Djax99 said:
Sorry could you elaborate? My state school is not a SE school for context
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Some states heavily favor in-state students, and do not have many residents who are applying. Since you have not shared the state school in question and it only interviews 40% of IS residents (while SE schools and others like Indiana and Iowa interview 60+%), it does not sound like a good idea to turn down your acceptance.
 
Here's the scoop. Early decision can be tricky because if you don't get an offer from that school, you'll be too late to apply anywhere else. Could you stand being a reapplicant (and the baggage that goes with it -- "what was wrong with that applicant? You'd think someone like that would have been admitted on the first try.") and looking for a gap year activity while your BS/MD classmates go on to medical school?

If you can be sure that you are a slam dunk for your target school, then take your shot. If you have any doubts, it might be better to take the sure thing that you are currently holding.
 
LizzyM said:
Here's the scoop. Early decision can be tricky because if you don't get an offer from that school, you'll be too late to apply anywhere else. Could you stand being a reapplicant (and the baggage that goes with it -- "what was wrong with that applicant? You'd think someone like that would have been admitted on the first try.") and looking for a gap year activity while your BS/MD classmates go on to medical school?

If you can be sure that you are a slam dunk for your target school, then take your shot. If you have any doubts, it might be better to take the sure thing that you are currently holding.
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voxveritatisetlucis said:
How is it nonsense? you really think that people who get into Harvard with a 516 are average joes?

They probably are Olympians, nature/science/cell pubs, nonprofit founders, sons/daughters of senators, valedictorians from Ivy League schools, SEC football player etc.

The average applicant without these ECs should have at least a 520 for top schools.
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I don’t even know where they got the 516 number MSAR says 520 is the Harvard median for acceptees
 
Djax99 said:
What are your opinions on applying regular decision vs enrolling at my BSMD?

And would you say I would be a good fit for my target school since I’m above 75th/90th percentile for MCAT/GPA? Or even for regular decision to apply to 20+ schools do you think I would be competitive?
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Have you heard of "yield protection"? The only up-side to early decision is that a school knows that if it admits you, it has you locked in and you won't bolt when you get an offer from a "better" school. If you think you are a slam dunk for your first choice, then early decision may make sense.

If you apply to 20 schools, besides the $$$ you 'll be spending and the hours you'll be spending on essays and secondary fees and perhaps on interviews, you do come up against yield protection which means that a school thinks you are "too good" for them and will dump them for a big name school. "He isn't going to come here; why should we waste an interview on him?" Interview slots are a limited resource and schools want to use them wisely. Likewise offers. A school that has offers tied up until the bitter end by people who won't matriculate ends up going to the waitlist and perhaps having to choose applicants that are not as desirable as those that would have been available earlier in the cycle (some candidates ask to be dropped from the waitlist in the early spring whereas they would have strongly considered the school if an offer had been forthcoming in the winter).

So it comes down to whether you feel lucky and how much time and money you want to expend on what could be a disappointing cycle.

Frankly, you must be a smart student if you got into a BS/MD program to begin with. What you do with it depends far more on YOU than on the school. If you are willing to work hard and find a summer opportunity outside of your home institution, if necessary, the sky's the limit.
 
LizzyM said:
Have you heard of "yield protection"? The only up-side to early decision is that a school knows that if it admits you, it has you locked in and you won't bolt when you get an offer from a "better" school. If you think you are a slam dunk for your first choice, then early decision may make sense.

If you apply to 20 schools, besides the $$$ you 'll be spending and the hours you'll be spending on essays and secondary fees and perhaps on interviews, you do come up against yield protection which means that a school thinks you are "too good" for them and will dump them for a big name school. "He isn't going to come here; why should we waste an interview on him?" Interview slots are a limited resource and schools want to use them wisely. Likewise offers. A school that has offers tied up until the bitter end by people who won't matriculate ends up going to the waitlist and perhaps having to choose applicants that are not as desirable as those that would have been available earlier in the cycle (some candidates ask to be dropped from the waitlist in the early spring whereas they would have strongly considered the school if an offer had been forthcoming in the winter).

So it comes down to whether you feel lucky and how much time and money you want to expend on what could be a disappointing cycle.

Frankly, you must be a smart student if you got into a BS/MD program to begin with. What you do with it depends far more on YOU than on the school. If you are willing to work hard and find a summer opportunity outside of your home institution, if necessary, the sky's the limit.
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EDP is almost never in the best interest of an applicant unless you absolutely cannot/will not apply to any other school (in which case the main advantage to EDP is that you'll have an answer about your future sooner) or the school has specifically encouraged you to apply EDP and you are willing to be a reapplicant if you tank your interview.

State schools are often highly mission-specific, and without reading your essays and participating in your interview, it is impossible for us to say how well you fit that mission. Stats are only a small piece of the puzzle at state schools (my own state school's MCAT range is something like 502-522), and you cannot rely on being in the 75th percentile (or whatever) to accurately predict your chances for admission. As such, I don't think anyone here is going to tell you EDP is a good idea in your situation.

I note that you've asked repeatedly about applying out, started other threads about AMCAS and EDP (where you've already been given the same basic information/advice that you're being given here again), and it seems like you're affording very little consideration to staying the course with your BSMD. If you want to go through the cost/time/heartache of the AMCAS gauntlet, then that's your call. Your stats are good and you should receive MD interviews at other programs. I suggest starting a WAMC thread to get a suitable school list.
 
EDP is pretty risky so it's probably only advised that you do it if you are alright with the idea of taking a gap year if you don't get into this one specific school.

OP at the end of the day, you just have to decide if you're going to kick yourself 2 years from now, if your classmates in your BS/MD are getting their white coats and you're taking a gap year because EDP or general apps didn't work out. I enjoyed my gap years and I think having some work experience helps me a lot in med school, but you have the option of skipping the hassle (and cost!!) of applying to 30 schools and hoping someone thinks your app is nice out of thousands that they read.
 
Djax99 said:
Hey guys, Im admitted to a BS/MD program at a lower ranked medical school. I was interested in applying out because my stats are fairly competitive but I was unsure if I should turn down a guaranteed acceptance

I have a 4.0/517. ~350 hours each of nonclinical and clinical volunteering, several research experiences including a couple posters (no pubs), internship at a biotech company, club leadership, minimal shadowing due to covid, 3D print and donate hands via a charity. I’m ORM.

Any advice? Also possibly interested in applying early decision.
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A bird in the hand… Zero guarantee that you earn an admission if you apply to another school. Do you really want to give up a sure fire thing for uncertainty?
 
I don't think your stats are impressive enough for saying you should drop your seat.

1.) 517 is impressive, but plenty of my classmates from a mid-tier MD school had better scores. It's not a sure-thing into an ivy league by any means.

2.) You have to go thru a brutal application process and if you come out the other side with no acceptance (which is very possible given the luck inherent when you have so many more qualified candidates than seats), you might regret all this BS.

3.) You're wasting years for no reason. Take a research year during med school if you want at an ivy league or something if you want to crack into a top residency. You might realize down the road that medicine doesn't even matter that much to you anymore and might really regret that additional year you wasted to go to a marginally better med school.

4.) M4s who just matched at my school (again a low-mid tier MD school) just matched at Harvard, Columbia, Cornell, Stanford, etc. Network like hell during med school and you can make it happen
 
I have 2 kids who were in BS/MD programs and they applied out and both are in T20 schools. BS/MD are a mouse trap and utterly underplay the potential of students. Is applying out a risk - bet you it is, but what in life is not... Don't under sell your self and settle..

BTW: My kids had MCAT in the range of 516- 518.. so don't listen to the nay Sayers.. AS 524 does not guarantee a top school so does a 516 NOT eliminate you from the TOP school.
 
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I have seen many students being rejected with your stats or better. The pool of applicans recently have become more competitive. Ranking of medical schools doesnt mean a lot. Look at their match rates, board exam stats, research opportunities for med students etc.
 
Take the seat. Rock it at that MD program. An MD program guarantee and you are contemplating, I am just amazed.

Enjoy knowing you are already IN. You can do anything you want if you excel. Any residency is open for you right now.

Take a breath, enjoy that moment. Realize that there are thousands stressing right now because they do not know if they will get in, you are in a top percent already, no matter the program.

You are on easy street right now.
 
Take the guaranteed admission at the MD/BS school. I accepted the spot in an BS/MD program; my med school spot was held for me as long as I maintained a certain GPA and took the required classes. MCAT was not required, but I decided to take the MCAT and also apply at a few other schools anyway. That was a complete waste of my time. I could have just enjoyed junior year of college a bit more and not taken or studied for the MCAT and I wasted money applying to a few other schools. Looking back I would have just enjoyed my undergrad more.
 
univlad said:
Take the guaranteed admission at the MD/BS school. I accepted the spot in an BS/MD program; my med school spot was held for me as long as I maintained a certain GPA and took the required classes. MCAT was not required, but I decided to take the MCAT and also apply at a few other schools anyway. That was a complete waste of my time. I could have just enjoyed junior year of college a bit more and not taken or studied for the MCAT and I wasted money applying to a few other schools. Looking back I would have just enjoyed my undergrad more.
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I think you are missing the point here.. It is not merely deciding to apply out and taking the MCAT... Ask yourself honestly, did you put in the rigor to your activities and ECs for the first 3 years in your undergrad, when you were comfortably settled in a program before you decided to apply out. It is not merely the step of applying out, but also the fact that are you as competitive as the 100% of the regular kids you are taking the regular path...
My experience is when kids are in BS/MD track they tend to take things easier as they do not have the bar to climb (makes sense), and be a competitive applicant for a regular MD class...

Don't get me wrong, it is much more competitive to get into a top MD school than it is in a regular BS/MD program (hard to believe but it is). I know because between the 2 kids we had 14 acceptances to BS/MD programs and it took 3 years of very intense work and 1 year of application process to land good MD schools.
 
Djax99 said:
Hey guys, Im admitted to a BS/MD program at a lower ranked medical school. I was interested in applying out because my stats are fairly competitive but I was unsure if I should turn down a guaranteed acceptance

I have a 4.0/517. ~350 hours each of nonclinical and clinical volunteering, several research experiences including a couple posters (no pubs), internship at a biotech company, club leadership, minimal shadowing due to covid, 3D print and donate hands via a charity. I’m ORM.

Any advice? Also possibly interested in applying early decision.
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I’m not an expert, but I had the same GPA and MCAT. I wish I would have applied early decision to my state school (or if I’d had the option, I would’ve taken a guaranteed acceptance) because it would have saved me a LOT of time, money, and heartache. If you do decide to apply out, I would apply as early as possible - I think that hurt me a lot in my cycle.
 
I generally favor combined degree programs. As others have mentioned, it's less stressful overall, and applying from college you'll encounter many unknowns and other excellent applicants.

A lot of factors will go into your decision. Here's my story. It's long and a bit rambly, but includes a lot of the factors I considered. I haven't posted here in a while, so I guess it's a bit of a brain dump for me too. Hard to edit on my phone though lol

I had high stats and decent extracurriculars, from arguably one of the best high schools in my state. First/1.5-generation immigrant, for better or worse. I was not a big fan of the rat race. I was a high performer and probably could have gone the traditional route of college then med school, but I didn't enjoy applying to college, so med school (or some other professional school) would probably have been even less enjoyable. And I heard such horror stories about undergrad prerequisites and weeder classes.

In every application cycle, there are too many qualified applicants and not enough seats. Life happens, and anything could derail your plans and dreams.

In college, there would be more choices and more uncertainty. There would also be distractions from my set goal of becoming a doctor. Which could have been a good thing, in retrospect. But I didn't want any other career at that time.

I was accepted to and went through a local accelerated BS/MD program in which, at about midway, we applied for one of a handful of med schools with various ranks. No MCAT, but we took more "mini-boards" to prove our academic competency in medical subjects. It didn't really matter to me where I ended up for med school, because I wasn't thinking about doing a very competitive specialty. I knew I'd do good for the community in some way, as long as I was in medicine. One of my priorities was also to stay near my parents, who have limited English proficiency.

It was tough academically, and we had fewer weeks off during breaks because of the acceleration. Yet it was actually less stressful than high school because as long as I passed, I would go to a medical school near home. And the class size was relatively small, so I felt like I had personal attention. And we had the option to skip some of the BS courses, including weeder courses, which was a relief. I excelled academically AND felt less nervous and more cared for the whole time, AND spent more time doing and learning about non-medical related stuff that I was interested in without feeling guilty, AND could spend more time with people who mattered to me. All without having to consider how to fit it all onto a medical school application. Plus, my parents were (and still are) close enough to help me when I needed them. Which makes me a better and happier person today.

It's a challenge to maintain a healthy life balance from the moment one decides to embark on the road to becoming a physician, so it's really important to examine the non-academic, non-work aspects of your decision. How do they compare vs getting into a higher ranked school? Why are the schools ranked higher, and do those reasons align with your career and life goals? For example, they're often ranked higher for having more research funding. But it's hard to be a physician-scientist. I would never want to spend my career chasing after grant money. But I do like science, so I became an academic clinician. Didn't need a top tier med school for that, so why stress more? What do you see yourself doing 5 years after finishing residency, both at work and in your home life? If you want a spouse and/or kids, the best time for that coincides with some of the most challenging times in the pursuit of becoming (and after becoming) a physician.

What is the best path to achieving your life goals?

If I stayed in the rat race, I probably would have ended up in the same or better position... But maybe not. I have no regrets about my decision. 🙂
 
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MD_Candidate said:
Don't get me wrong, it is much more competitive to get into a top MD school than it is in a regular BS/MD program (hard to believe but it is). I know because between the 2 kids we had 14 acceptances to BS/MD programs and it took 3 years of very intense work and 1 year of application process to land good MD schools.
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The acceptance rates at BS/MD programs are ~1-5%, which is lower than plenty of med schools, acceptance rates for T20s are around the same. I think you are underselling how hard/impressive it is to get into these programs. I also don't know that OP should assume they'll have the same luck your kids did.
 
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Djax99 said:
Hey guys, Im admitted to a BS/MD program at a lower ranked medical school. I was interested in applying out because my stats are fairly competitive but I was unsure if I should turn down a guaranteed acceptance

I have a 4.0/517. ~350 hours each of nonclinical and clinical volunteering, several research experiences including a couple posters (no pubs), internship at a biotech company, club leadership, minimal shadowing due to covid, 3D print and donate hands via a charity. I’m ORM.

Any advice? Also possibly interested in applying early decision.
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So you have a sure acceptance from an MD school. i wonder if you should accept that. the application process can be uncertain.
 
To be honest, this thread is unnecessary. All this pontificating and analyzing is just a circle jerk.

You have a GUARANTEED MD acceptance. TAKE IT and don't look back.

THERE'S NO REASON TO RISK LOSING IT ALL just to attend a school with a higher ranking. Work hard in med school and the sky is the limit. At the end of the day, you're still gonna be a physician. Nobody cares about your pedigree.

Get off of SDN and just matriculate to your damn school. People would kill for a guaranteed MD acceptance.

End of thread.
 
Djax99 said:
Hey guys, Im admitted to a BS/MD program at a lower ranked medical school. I was interested in applying out because my stats are fairly competitive but I was unsure if I should turn down a guaranteed acceptance

I have a 4.0/517. ~350 hours each of nonclinical and clinical volunteering, several research experiences including a couple posters (no pubs), internship at a biotech company, club leadership, minimal shadowing due to covid, 3D print and donate hands via a charity. I’m ORM.

Any advice? Also possibly interested in applying early decision.
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I would not turn down a guaranteed acceptance, esp if you're ORM. Once done with your school/training/licensure no one will care where you went to medical school or got board-eligible in your chosen specialty. The big variable is money. If you have a method to obtain scholarships or financing then that should be a deal maker/breaker. Don't forget about National Health Service and military scholarship options.
 
outtadisworld said:
To be honest, this thread is unnecessary. All this pontificating and analyzing is just a circle jerk.

You have a GUARANTEED MD acceptance. TAKE IT and don't look back.

THERE'S NO REASON TO RISK LOSING IT ALL just to attend a school with a higher ranking. Work hard in med school and the sky is the limit. At the end of the day, you're still gonna be a physician. Nobody cares about your pedigree.

Get off of SDN and just matriculate to your damn school. People would kill for a guaranteed MD acceptance.

End of thread.
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Yes.
 
JStarMD said:
I would not turn down a guaranteed acceptance, esp if you're ORM. Once done with your school/training/licensure no one will care where you went to medical school or got board-eligible in your chosen specialty. The big variable is money. If you have a method to obtain scholarships or financing then that should be a deal maker/breaker. Don't forget about National Health Service and military scholarship options.
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LizzyM said:
I don't have enough information to make any predictions. I know nothing of EDP at your state school and how often applicants like yourself are offered admission through EDP.
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It's really difficult to assist without knowing the two schools in question.
 
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