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Not sure how much this helps or if you’ve seen it, but I got a bunch of answers to a similar question on pg 3

forums.studentdoctor.net

DOA for competitive residencies?

Hi everybody, I am fortunate enough to be starting medical school this summer despite a significant red flag from 3-4 years ago. Despite getting in, I was WLed or rejected from ~13 schools post interview (despite being a good interviewer), because of this red flag. Going into medical school...
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net
 
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I thought juvenile records were sealed anyways? I don’t think it would show up on a background check
 
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papillarymuscle said:
I'm weighing risks and benefits. One of the risks being answering no to questions and the PD feeling as if I have been deceptive. It's something that has been weighing heavily on me because it seems if a PD were to dismiss someone on this basis they are essentially barred from ever participating in the match and left with half a million in debt. I just want reassurance from those in this field that it would be ok to answer no, or advice on how to tactfully apply if disclosure was felt necessary.

It's tough to have an embarrassing misstep that you cannot talk to anyone about (mentors, home PD) if you are on the fence of disclosure in the first place.
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I'd say that you have your answer. You already asked the true expert, the lawyer. I wouldn't take some random internet docs advice over an actual lawyer. (Yes I am aware of the paradox of my last statement)
 
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papillarymuscle said:
I'm weighing risks and benefits. One of the risks being answering no to questions and the PD feeling as if I have been deceptive. It's something that has been weighing heavily on me because it seems if a PD were to dismiss someone on this basis they are essentially barred from ever participating in the match and left with half a million in debt. I just want reassurance from those in this field that it would be ok to answer no, or advice on how to tactfully apply if disclosure was felt necessary.

It's tough to have an embarrassing misstep that you cannot talk to anyone about (mentors, home PD) if you are on the fence of disclosure in the first place.
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If you knew the trouble and headache involved in firing one resident and finding another, you would realize how little your concern should be.
 
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papillarymuscle said:
I'm weighing risks and benefits. One of the risks being answering no to questions and the PD feeling as if I have been deceptive. It's something that has been weighing heavily on me because it seems if a PD were to dismiss someone on this basis they are essentially barred from ever participating in the match and left with half a million in debt. I just want reassurance from those in this field that it would be ok to answer no, or advice on how to tactfully apply if disclosure was felt necessary.

It's tough to have an embarrassing misstep that you cannot talk to anyone about (mentors, home PD) if you are on the fence of disclosure in the first place.
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Being deceptive? You have a lawyer's opinion stating you can say no.... If it would make you feel better pay your own lawyer to review your case and write a formal opinion that you can carry around with you and produce should there be a problem in the future.
 
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papillarymuscle said:
Posted on med student thread but was only met with "no need to disclose" which I feel, and have seen, is very dangerous water to tread.

US MD with >90th percentile USMLE scores, research, top of class standing. I have a red flag from when I was a juvenile (>10 years ago) where I was arrested for marijuana. However, the charge was dismissed without conviction. It was not a misdemeanor nor felony but the “Is there anything in your past history that would limit your ability to be licensed or would limit your ability to receive hospital privileges?” question is where I feel disclosure is likely appropriate (even though I feel like it wouldn't acutally limit me).

I spoke with my school and they shot an email to a lawyer - I was legally advised to answer 'no'. This seems like an area where opinion varies highly, especially amongst PDs.

- How limited are my chances of matching given this red flag?
- Should I dual apply?

Thanks

Edit: I'm not sure the lawyer was told it was marijuana-related, but rather an offence lesser than a misdemeanor
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You got arrested as a juvenile but charges were dropped. Seems like something that would not ever come up even on licensure questions that ask about things like have you ever been convicted of a felony or have you ever been sanctioned by a hospital or whatnot. At this point even if somebody found it (which I doubt they could), since all charges were dropped it seems impossible that could limit you in any way. It'd be the equivalent of a cop accidentally cuffing the wrong person and then letting them go 10 minutes later after it all got straightened out.
 
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NICMAN said:
I am on our credentialing committee for our hospital.

I would follow your lawyer’s advice and get a letter so that your have plausible rationale for explaining should a credentialing committee bring it up
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Have you encountered someone who disclose a non-conviction arrest?
 
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You could be arrested and tried for murder but if you’re not found guilty/convicted, there’s literally nothing to disclose. All you would be disclosing is that you were arrested when you probably shouldn’t have been.

Not a misdemeanor, not a felony, dismissed with no conviction, have legal counsel telling you in no uncertain terms not to disclose. Other forums telling you not to disclose. At this point it just seems like you want attention.
 
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Where’s the beef?

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NICMAN said:
Nope. It doesn't show up in our normal background, NPI, med-mal screen. I don't think it would be relevant if there are no convictions and no Med-staff corrective actions.
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What about a expunged or sealed conviction?

If these show up, do you disqualify?
 
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I know you all are over achieving medical students/residents. In the “real” world you really don’t need to put so many obstacles in your own path, it’s really hard enough as is.

Most of the “credential specialists” are low paying paper pushing jobs. If you say there is nothing there, no one will looking for anything extra. Their job is to get the paperwork done, nothing more nothing less. As long as you complete it, crossed your t’s dotted your i’s, “most likely” it will be fine.

Why the fuk will you put a big target on your own back? ESPECIALLY, when a LAWYER, who writes rules and helps us mere physicians to understand them, says let it the duck go?!

@scatter-brain. NICMAN basically said if OP disclose, he would be the first dummy ever. And you proceeded to ask, what would happen….. it NEVER happened before. Did you or op disclose your little incident when apply to medical school? If not, then move on!!!!!
 
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papillarymuscle said:
I did have to disclose when asked if I was 'ever charged with any offense'.
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Yeah I'd think OP would have to disclose it for that question too. Unless there's a juvenile exemption...

I'd suggest to OP they should get their own attorney (not the school's) - ideally someone who's a medical staff and medical board expert. Ask them and retain them in case there's any issue. It should cost <3K and will be worth the peace of mind and backing if any further issue comes up.

It's a BS thing for you because marijuana is becoming mainstreamed yet is still federally illegal. Yet, you were technically arrested. Plus personally I think it's nonsense that anyone should be able to hold anything less than an actual conviction / plea against you. But such is life for now unfair as it is.

For this sort of thing having an attorney is well worth the cost even if it seems like a lot as a student - which it is if you make no money. But good legal advice is worth it when you need it.
 
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papillarymuscle said:
Posted on med student thread but was only met with "no need to disclose" which I feel, and have seen, is very dangerous water to tread.

US MD with >90th percentile USMLE scores, research, top of class standing. I have a red flag from when I was a juvenile (>10 years ago) where I was arrested for marijuana. However, the charge was dismissed without conviction. It was not a misdemeanor nor felony but the “Is there anything in your past history that would limit your ability to be licensed or would limit your ability to receive hospital privileges?” question is where I feel disclosure is likely appropriate (even though I feel like it wouldn't acutally limit me).

I spoke with my school and they shot an email to a lawyer - I was legally advised to answer 'no'. This seems like an area where opinion varies highly, especially amongst PDs.

- How limited are my chances of matching given this red flag?
- Should I dual apply?

Thanks

Edit: I'm not sure the lawyer was told it was marijuana-related, but rather an offence lesser than a misdemeanor
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If the question is “is there anything that would limit your ability to be licensed or credentialed”, I agree you can safely answer no and be done with it.

If you were asked, “have you ever been charged with a misdemeanor or felony other than a traffic offense”, then you should contact your own lawyer to counsel you.

For state medical license, they ask this “have you ever been charged” question, and in general someone can answer yes and then explain the circumstance. From my understanding, answering yes isn’t going to stop you from getting a license, but I have heard that answering untruthfully on a medical license application will absolutely land you in trouble with the medical board.
 
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Not to derail this thread too much, but in my mind this is one of the strongest arguments for legalization of marijuana (from a racial and social justice standpoint).

I got caught smoking pot in college, and my buddy who I was with had a small amount of psychedelics. We got busted by campus security Rent-A-Cops, real police never got involved… because we were privileged white kids on a private college campus. No criminal record. If I were a black kid on the street, it would have been real police, I’d have a record, may have never gotten into med school, the whole trajectory of my life might have been different. By virtue of my privilege as a white guy with some financial means, I was quite literally operating under a different criminal justice system.

Regardless of whether you personally enjoy smoking weed, I think there’s a strong argument to be made that the war on low level non violent drug offenses has disproportionately targeted the black and latinX communities.
 
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Also there’s always a section for explanations and disclosures. You can write the lawyers response there if the language of the question forces you to disclose it.

I don’t see it being a problem.
 
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neutro said:
Also there’s always a section for explanations and disclosures. You can write the lawyers response there if the language of the question forces you to disclose it.

I don’t see it being a problem.
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At least for med schools, some will filter just based on an affirmative answer for questions like these. For example, I didn’t get a secondary application from UCLA or UCSD despite getting one from UCSF because I answered yes to one of these questions.

I imagine residency programs would have the same capabilities. That’s why answering these in the affirmative can be dangerous regardless of explanation
 
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It is a tough call I agree, but I can tell you after serving on credentials committee for the past few years, the bigger problem tends to be non-disclosure and purposely withholding information.
Then it becomes an honesty and integrity issue...and its scrutinized more.
 
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dipriMAN said:
If the question is “is there anything that would limit your ability to be licensed or credentialed”, I agree you can safely answer no and be done with it.

If you were asked, “have you ever been charged with a misdemeanor or felony other than a traffic offense”, then you should contact your own lawyer to counsel you.

For state medical license, they ask this “have you ever been charged” question, and in general someone can answer yes and then explain the circumstance. From my understanding, answering yes isn’t going to stop you from getting a license, but I have heard that answering untruthfully on a medical license application will absolutely land you in trouble with the medical board.
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That last sentence is the crux of the whole thing. You answer yes, it will be a hassle but you’ll still get a license. You answer no and you’ll probably get away with it 90% of the time. But that 10% will be a doozy and you may not get a license because they will think you are inherently dishonest. It’s a real dilemma that I’ve seen play out all of the different ways.
 
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