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Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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Agreed. A problem like this at the start of Med school won’t necessarily sink you. Everything hinges on what happens next.

If this is a fluke and you’re otherwise solid, you should still have a good shot at competitive fields. Many people get caught off guard by the first exams.

If this is the first of many similar issues, accompanied by low step scores and mediocre clinical grades, then you may find it very difficult.
 
So it's not a complete dead-end to try for Radiology and Anesthesiology? I know they're competitive, but not the uber competitive like Derm, plastics etc.

Also, would I have to do substantially more to "make-up" for this red flag? Or would being the standard, competitive applicant be enough? Should I try to really push myself and try and get a ton of first-author publications, or really really grind and try to get AOA or anything
 
For radiology, probably depends on whether there is any mean reversion. It’s been getting increasingly competitive and seems likely to be more competitive than general surgery but still less than ultra competitive surgical subspecialties in coming years
 
Honestly, I just feel like such a ******* that I dropped the ball on what's probably going to be the easiest part of my entire medical career, and now for the next 4 years I'll have to be worried about this dumb mistake and its potential implications. And now I'll always be in the mindset I gotta be hustling a little. I hope I don't burn out
 
PieceOfGum1 said:
Honestly, I just feel like such a ******* that I dropped the ball on what's probably going to be the easiest part of my entire medical career, and now for the next 4 years I'll have to be worried about this dumb mistake and its potential implications. And now I'll always be in the mindset I gotta be hustling a little. I hope I don't burn out
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Be happy that it happened now rather than on the wards. Identify weaknesses, hit it harder next time, leave your phone at home if you need to. Try to get some gas or rads research (easier said than done at some schools). You can’t change the past now so don’t be too hard on yourself and let it affect subsequent performance
 
PieceOfGum1 said:
Honestly, I just feel like such a ******* that I dropped the ball on what's probably going to be the easiest part of my entire medical career, and now for the next 4 years I'll have to be worried about this dumb mistake and its potential implications. And now I'll always be in the mindset I gotta be hustling a little. I hope I don't burn out
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Don’t feel too bad. For a lot of people preclinical is considered the worst while rotations is easier. I’ve heard from quite a few students that the first two years are the hardest. It’s all relative so don’t feel like just because you hit a rough spot that all of a sudden you’re not competitive for certain specialties.
 
AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson said:
This is all I needed to read to say "no"
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I pray you guys are all correct. Some of the upper classmen I confided my issue with told me that Radiology and Anesthesiology have gotten insanely competitive now and that having a big fat F and remediation will weed me out of them
 
PieceOfGum1 said:
I pray you guys are all correct. Some of the upper classmen I confided my issue with told me that Radiology and Anesthesiology have gotten insanely competitive now and that having a big fat F and remediation will weed me out of them
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They’re wrong. Frankly if you knock everything else out of the park even the most competitive specialties won’t be off the table. Preclinical grades aren’t anyone’s priority.
 
PieceOfGum1 said:
Honestly, I just feel like such a ******* that I dropped the ball on what's probably going to be the easiest part of my entire medical career, and now for the next 4 years I'll have to be worried about this dumb mistake and its potential implications. And now I'll always be in the mindset I gotta be hustling a little. I hope I don't burn out
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I'll preference this by saying that I'm only a 3rd year, but I thought MS1 (and especially first semester) has been the toughest so far. You have to adjust to the steep learning curve and have to learn how to study in medical school, either of which would be very difficult by itself. All of my worse grades came during the first few months in med school, and I was borderline fail for the first few exams.
You've still got a lot of time ahead of you and many chances to show that 1 failure during MS1 was a fluke. Study for step1 like it's scored, then absolutely crush your 3rd year rotations and get a killer step2 score. Then in 3 years when you're applying, a single failure years ago will seem like less of a big deal if you've 1) haven't had any other red flags and 2) excellent from here on out. One failure can be seen as a one off, whereas 2 or 3 hiccups is a trend.
Good luck, and don't be too down on yourself. Fall down 9 times, get up 10.
 
odyssey2 said:
They’re wrong. Frankly if you knock everything else out of the park even the most competitive specialties won’t be off the table. Preclinical grades aren’t anyone’s priority.
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Radiology is definitely becoming competitive and will probably overtake general surgery and OBGYN in terms of competitiveness placing it just under surgical subs + derm
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
Radiology is definitely becoming competitive and will probably overtake general surgery and OBGYN in terms of competitiveness placing it just under surgical subs + derm
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Agreed, but I would say this is even the case with the derm and surg subs. Doing well on clinical rotations and step will easily make up for a preclinical failure.
 
PieceOfGum1 said:
M1 here at a low-ranked MD school. Just finished my first block today, and bombed it. I have to retake it over the summer. This Fail will show up on my Transcript, alongside the (hopeful) Pass when I redo it. It's also reported on my MPSE Dean's Letter

I failed for entirely my own reasons. There were no extenuating circumstances or anything, it was just a mix of me being lazy, underestimating the work, and not knowing how to study.

I think I figured out my problems with managing the workload, and figured out how to study more effectively. The reason I failed the block was from a horrendous Midterm 1 and 2 grade; I turned things around for Midterm 3 and 4 and did well in them, but the averages still resulted in a fail overall.

NOW MY QUESTION IS:

I was thinking of maybe going for radiology or anesthesiology as my specialties. Are these going to be complete dead-ends now, because of the red flag of having to remediate a class? My worst fear is suffering through not just regular medical school classes, but also enduring painful research and volunteering and all this other crap just to get ahead in the rat race and seem more competitive, but it all be for nothing because of this red flag.

Should I just have the attitude that I should aim for lower-competitive specialties now, like Family Medicine, or Pediatrics? In which case, sure I wouldn’t be doing exactly what I want, but I could make my medical school years more enjoyable and tolerable; I wouldn’t have to waste my free time doing research I have no actual interest in, or dumb leadership, or any of these things to look “good” for competitive specialties. I wouldn’t have to try super hard to be top of my class for an AOA.

I could just focus on just passing my classes and getting through school as comfortably as I can, enjoying my free time to be with my family, doing the minimum I need to just get into some decent FM residency somewhere.

Is this what my plan should be? Or do I still have enough of a chance to get into the specialties I want to, and thus I should take the chance and be more miserable during med school and do all this extracurricular crap, because I’m not dead on arrival after all?

Please let me know. Thanks for your time.
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There's always radiation oncology if you're trying to avoid the core specialties where you admit/round, etc and you don't mind living literally anywhere in the country (I'm joking, don't go into radiation oncology for any reason).

To be blunt, multiple things you just wrote suggest you struggle with a really intense work ethic. You are worried about putting in a lot of work unless you're sure it's going to pay off. It seems that effort is valuable to you. You don't want to give up your leisure time unless it's going to be paid back. Your specialty choice as an M1 tells this too. Basically all Anesthesia and Radiology have in common is that they are lifestyle fields that offer very high compensation with a lot of time away from work. The problem is that it will be a grind when you're at work (vs a field with a decent amount of downtime like mine), and you will have to put in a lot of effort to match and then pass boards. It sounds like you've already self-identified your work ethic problem and it's just a matter of whether you want to change anything. And it's really not even a problem. You're in med school. You're already doing better than 99% of the population in terms of it. Nothing wrong with choosing to pursue a less intense specialty that's easier to get into (FM, psych, PM&R, rad onc (lol, I crack myself up), etc). Happens all the time so don't beat yourself up if that end up being right for you personally.
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
For radiology, probably depends on whether there is any mean reversion. It’s been getting increasingly competitive and seems likely to be more competitive than general surgery but still less than ultra competitive surgical subspecialties in coming years
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From M4s at my school, seems like it similar to ortho/optho but without the research
 
PieceOfGum1 said:
M1 here at a low-ranked MD school. Just finished my first block today, and bombed it. I have to retake it over the summer. This Fail will show up on my Transcript, alongside the (hopeful) Pass when I redo it. It's also reported on my MPSE Dean's Letter

I failed for entirely my own reasons. There were no extenuating circumstances or anything, it was just a mix of me being lazy, underestimating the work, and not knowing how to study.

I think I figured out my problems with managing the workload, and figured out how to study more effectively. The reason I failed the block was from a horrendous Midterm 1 and 2 grade; I turned things around for Midterm 3 and 4 and did well in them, but the averages still resulted in a fail overall.

NOW MY QUESTION IS:

I was thinking of maybe going for radiology or anesthesiology as my specialties. Are these going to be complete dead-ends now, because of the red flag of having to remediate a class? My worst fear is suffering through not just regular medical school classes, but also enduring painful research and volunteering and all this other crap just to get ahead in the rat race and seem more competitive, but it all be for nothing because of this red flag.

Should I just have the attitude that I should aim for lower-competitive specialties now, like Family Medicine, or Pediatrics? In which case, sure I wouldn’t be doing exactly what I want, but I could make my medical school years more enjoyable and tolerable; I wouldn’t have to waste my free time doing research I have no actual interest in, or dumb leadership, or any of these things to look “good” for competitive specialties. I wouldn’t have to try super hard to be top of my class for an AOA.

I could just focus on just passing my classes and getting through school as comfortably as I can, enjoying my free time to be with my family, doing the minimum I need to just get into some decent FM residency somewhere.

Is this what my plan should be? Or do I still have enough of a chance to get into the specialties I want to, and thus I should take the chance and be more miserable during med school and do all this extracurricular crap, because I’m not dead on arrival after all?

Please let me know. Thanks for your time.
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Specialty competitiveness can fluctuate a lot from year to year and it's hard to predict exactly how competitive it will be the year you apply; it could be more or less competitive than this year. This has historically been especially the case for anesthesiology or radiology. For example radiology was very competitive in the early 2000s when the job market was hot, then from around 2011-2016 it was much easier to get into due to the lack of jobs during those years and steep CMS reimbursement costs. Then it a lot got more competitive since 2017 until this year when only 83% of USMD seniors who applied to radiology as their first choice matched. It has been more competitive from the combination of strong job market in the recent years, the ability as one of the fewer specialties to work without requiring direct patient contact during the COVID-19 pandemic, and is more difficult to be taken over by PAs/NPs.

However, having a fail in any preclinical course will be a major red flag for any competitive specialty , as in these specialties, most successful applicants will have all passes in their clinical courses (though 1 fail on a preclnical course by itself won't absolutely exclude you from the more competitive specialties). If grades or USME scores in med school limit you from more competitive specialties, IM is often a good back-up for most people as it has a 98% match rate for USMDs, offers the most flexibility down the line (including competitive subspecialities like GI and cardiology, or doing primary care or hospitalist just like FM can do). FM employment options are more limited than IM as there are less fellowships. Peds might not be ideal if you have a lot of loans since pay has also been historically much lower than adult medicine, and I don't seen pay for peds specialties going up much anytime soon.
 
PieceOfGum1 said:
I pray you guys are all correct. Some of the upper classmen I confided my issue with told me that Radiology and Anesthesiology have gotten insanely competitive now and that having a big fat F and remediation will weed me out of them
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All schools have those kids.

"Get at least 5 pubs or there is no way you'll match"
"If you aren't top quintile, anything competitive is out"

Ignore the noise. They have no idea what they are talking about.
 
If you know you don't like research, then don't do it! You only live once. (If you've never tried research though, then you should, because maybe you'll like it.)
You only go to med school once. Explore and find something you like! This could be public policy, global health, quality improvement, artificial intelligence in medicine, medical humanities, healthcare economics, or something else. Even something like art therapy/music therapy/pet therapy for patients. A few years ago, a medical student was in the news because they made a video game for children with leukemia.

Do not work hard just because you think it will it will take you to success. Instead go deep into something you enjoy. Success will instead come find you.
 
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