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Gonna be real with everyone.

If the reason you are transferring is because of unhappiness with what you are learning or you feel that your time/energy/skills are disrespected: it won't change going to another program.

The majority of programs in OMFS are you just setting up your attendings cases for them to cut. seeing their consults and taking out bad teeth/trauma/infections here and there. That's residency unfortunately.

Just finish at that program and move on is the best advice anyone can give you. Minimize reactions with your staff and bad co-residents to just a professional level (they are your boss/co-worker only. not your friend).

The only thing the academic faculty at all programs care about is that you stuck with it at their program because they are all inherently selfish about what they are teaching you and learning their system. They just want some consistency (even bad consistency (as in: I'M just here so I don't get fined) is better than a shining light who quits in 1 year). They don't care about your OMSITE score or your intelligence. Its wild. I know. Make friends outside the hospital and with some co-interns.

If its because family is sick or your program shut down...maybe its possible.

Once they give you your certificate: just bounce and figure it out on your own at your own timeline and don't work in academics.

My colleagues and I did non-cats and matched at 6 year programs with affordable med school away from home and have been in this field a long time. This is how it works for the majority of OMFS.

Good luck with your journey.
 
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Van Der Woude said:
Gonna be real with everyone.

If the reason you are transferring is because of unhappiness with what you are learning or you feel that your time/energy/skills are disrespected: it won't change going to another program.

The majority of programs in OMFS are you just setting up your attendings cases for them to cut. seeing their consults and taking out bad teeth/trauma/infections here and there. That's residency unfortunately.

Just finish at that program and move on is the best advice anyone can give you. Minimize reactions with your staff and bad co-residents to just a professional level (they are your boss/co-worker only. not your friend).

The only thing the academic faculty at all programs care about is that you stuck with it at their program because they are all inherently selfish about what they are teaching you and learning their system. They just want some consistency (even bad consistency (as in: I'M just here so I don't get fined) is better than a shining light who quits in 1 year). They don't care about your OMSITE score or your intelligence. Its wild. I know. Make friends outside the hospital and with some co-interns.

If its because family is sick or your program shut down...maybe its possible.

Once they give you your certificate: just bounce and figure it out on your own at your own timeline and don't work in academics.

My colleagues and I did non-cats and matched at 6 year programs with affordable med school away from home and have been in this field a long time. This is how it works for the majority of OMFS.

Good luck with your journey.
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Interesting take. You must have had a tough time in residency. My residency was not like that at all. I enjoyed my attendings, they taught us and we had good camaraderie amongst residents and staff. Were there some tough patches? certainly, but nothing worth doing is going to be easy. When I became program director a my current institution, my goal was to create a more family like atmosphere. Can I get angry with my family, be mad at them but still love them and want the best for them absolutely. I would like to think I have been successful in creating that atmosphere. But I am outside looking in, you would need to ask my residents to know for sure.

For those considering OMS residency, residency is what you make it. You work hard, are honest and accountable. You will succeed. But I have seen a change in the way that residents behave nowadays. I see it in some of the dental students as well. A sort of entitled "I am here, now you teach me" type of attitude. That is not how residency works, if you want that, do oral radiology or something. OMS is an intense and lengthy residency, but when you are done it is all worth it. I am in "academics" but I make good money, have an outside practice, I think I treat my residents fairly and I enjoy what I do.
 
Van Der Woude said:
The majority of programs in OMFS are you just setting up your attendings cases for them to cut. seeing their consults and taking out bad teeth/trauma/infections here and there. That's residency unfortunately.

Just finish at that program and move on is the best advice anyone can give you. Minimize reactions with your staff and bad co-residents to just a professional level (they are your boss/co-worker only. not your friend).

The only thing the academic faculty at all programs care about is that you stuck with it at their program because they are all inherently selfish about what they are teaching you and learning their system. They just want some consistency (even bad consistency (as in: I'M just here so I don't get fined) is better than a shining light who quits in 1 year). They don't care about your OMSITE score or your intelligence. Its wild. I know. Make friends outside the hospital and with some co-interns.
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Very sad to read this.

Plenty of omfs programs will give residents a very good surgical experience.

I went to a program where the vast majority of the cases, if not all, is operated by the residents, not the attendings.
We were an orthognathic powerhouse.
Each chief resident would cut half a gnathic case and the senior attendings would stand at the head retracting and guiding us during surgery. Even the critical parts like performing the segmental osteotomy, and fixation was performed by residents. The entire work up with medical modeling was done by residents. Attendings were present but they typically took a back seat.

The same thing happened with trauma cases, infections, and even open joint tmj surgeries. The residents operated the case.

It’s too bad that one would give such a negative generalization of omfs programs.

Our attendings made it a moral obligation to train us effectively.
 
UMKC is unique, nade. The people in charge of that program do a good job of not ranking people with bad personalities or grades. The residents there care to make changes to make its program progressive and better.

Not all programs are like that. There are other programs that don't have this capacity. Especially at programs in larger cities that do things differently since most residents there are treated as glorified note writers.

The quality of residents and dental students has changed. More westernized. A lot of undeserving people getting spots because they are sycophants or have connections: leading to toxicity in senior positions without the knowledge or surgical skills to back it up. Old brass at established programs spewing static desire when dynamic shifts are occurring.

I gave him the best advice possible. This resident is in a program already. They just needs to show up and do their job and they will be a board eligible OMFS.
 
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Van Der Woude said:
UMKC is unique, nade. The people in charge of that program do a good job of not ranking people with bad personalities or grades. The residents there care to make changes to make its program progressive and better.

Not all programs are like that. There are other programs that don't have this capacity. Especially at programs in larger cities that do things differently since most residents there are treated as glorified note writers.

The quality of residents and dental students has changed. More westernized. A lot of undeserving people getting spots because they are sycophants or have connections: leading to toxicity in senior positions without the knowledge or surgical skills to back it up. Old brass at established programs spewing static desire when dynamic shifts are occurring.

I gave him the best advice possible. This resident is in a program already. They just needs to show up and do their job and they will be a board eligible OMFS.
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I'm not discrediting anything you're saying since I am only a dental student and have 0 experience with OS yet, but I have yet to see someone in this field who has gotten in through a connection. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I think it's a misperception to mention it happening frequently or a lot.
Again I don't know because I am at the bottom of the ladder in training, but I attend an Ivy League dental school and even here nothing happens via connections from what I see. There is a lot of hazing and weeding out but if you stick through and work for it, you will get what you want. It's merit and finding the right learning environment. But yes for some that comes more easily, but it is moreso due to factors like higher SES so more resources, parents who are dentists, etc all of these contribute but hard work always is there

this is solely my opinion. I for sure am not discrediting you since you come with more training and experience
 
Keepthefaith12 said:
I'm not discrediting anything you're saying since I am only a dental student and have 0 experience with OS yet, but I have yet to see someone in this field who has gotten in through a connection. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I think it's a misperception to mention it happening frequently or a lot.
Again I don't know because I am at the bottom of the ladder in training, but I attend an Ivy League dental school and even here nothing happens via connections from what I see. There is a lot of hazing and weeding out but if you stick through and work for it, you will get what you want. It's merit and finding the right learning environment. But yes for some that comes more easily, but it is moreso due to factors like higher SES so more resources, parents who are dentists, etc all of these contribute but hard work always is there

this is solely my opinion. I for sure am not discrediting you since you come with more training and experience
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I’m also not trying to discredit your experience but I have seen people getting in based off connections on multiple occasions. More than likely it is happening around you, like it does me, and people just are not broadcasting it
 
Keepthefaith12 said:
I'm not discrediting anything you're saying since I am only a dental student and have 0 experience with OS yet, but I have yet to see someone in this field who has gotten in through a connection. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I think it's a misperception to mention it happening frequently or a lot.
Again I don't know because I am at the bottom of the ladder in training, but I attend an Ivy League dental school and even here nothing happens via connections from what I see. There is a lot of hazing and weeding out but if you stick through and work for it, you will get what you want. It's merit and finding the right learning environment. But yes for some that comes more easily, but it is moreso due to factors like higher SES so more resources, parents who are dentists, etc all of these contribute but hard work always is there

this is solely my opinion. I for sure am not discrediting you since you come with more training and experience
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You’re in for a real shocker when you find out PD’s text each other about applicants and connections can get you ranked very very high. I know personally of someone with an average score/gpa who got a spot because of his father.

It’s not widespread but it exists.

OS is no different than the real world, nepotism and favoritism exists, if you’re not aware, you’re just not seeing it blatantly in front of you.
 
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nade0016 said:
Interesting take. You must have had a tough time in residency. My residency was not like that at all. I enjoyed my attendings, they taught us and we had good camaraderie amongst residents and staff. Were there some tough patches? certainly, but nothing worth doing is going to be easy. When I became program director a my current institution, my goal was to create a more family like atmosphere. Can I get angry with my family, be mad at them but still love them and want the best for them absolutely. I would like to think I have been successful in creating that atmosphere. But I am outside looking in, you would need to ask my residents to know for sure.

For those considering OMS residency, residency is what you make it. You work hard, are honest and accountable. You will succeed. But I have seen a change in the way that residents behave nowadays. I see it in some of the dental students as well. A sort of entitled "I am here, now you teach me" type of attitude. That is not how residency works, if you want that, do oral radiology or something. OMS is an intense and lengthy residency, but when you are done it is all worth it. I am in "academics" but I make good money, have an outside practice, I think I treat my residents fairly and I enjoy what I do.
Click to expand...
To be fair dental students are paying a hefty price. I think the attitude shift is more understandable when you consider they’re paying 100s of thousands of dollars for what is essentially a service. They’re the customers in dental schools. Residents are employees.
 
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I stand corrected.
I guess ive never been on the receiving end of such a thing so I wouldn't know how to pick up on it if it were happening. I just see people work for things and then get them and it appears easier for some than others but I attribute that to other factors like SES or dad as dentists, etc
oh well. Can't control it so not worth worrying about it
 
yappy said:
To be fair dental students are paying a hefty price. I think the attitude shift is more understandable when you consider they’re paying 100s of thousands of dollars for what is essentially a service. They’re the customers in dental schools. Residents are employees.
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I do understand your point, my contention regarding change in attitudes is that dental students are customers but also in professional school attempting to be a professional, not a training to be a sales rep for Boost mobile. So they need to view the training much more than just info to be regurgitated spoon fed. There are many individuals responsible for this including CODA, dental schools, faculty, students, todays type of learner, and many other factors. If you view yourself as a customer to be provided to with no responsibility to the patient, then we should just change dentistry to a trade like a plumber. No need to know anything about the body, just focus on the teeth and forget the rest.

I hate that we have to have this conversation as I think we have a great profession.
 
nade0016 said:
I do understand your point, my contention regarding change in attitudes is that dental students are customers but also in professional school attempting to be a professional, not a training to be a sales rep for Boost mobile. So they need to view the training much more than just info to be regurgitated spoon fed. There are many individuals responsible for this including CODA, dental schools, faculty, students, todays type of learner, and many other factors. If you view yourself as a customer to be provided to with no responsibility to the patient, then we should just change dentistry to a trade like a plumber. No need to know anything about the body, just focus on the teeth and forget the rest.

I hate that we have to have this conversation as I think we have a great profession.
Click to expand...

I misunderstood you and focused on the “teach me” comment. It reminded me of my own experience of checked out, disrespectful, faculty who treated teaching like a nuisance rather than the job they agreed to. I agree that solid preclinical education is important and that the profession is a good one.
 
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