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[deleted1217951]

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[Mr.Smile12]

What is the specific language of the "dishonesty" policy? How does the student conduct office want you to describe how it is keeping your records, including how this citation was resolved? How is having your TA help you "dishonesty"? How did your ochem professor find out?

Have you run your statement through your prehealth advising office?

 

[einvincible12]

Sounds pretty minor tbh, if this is actually the whole context. It's hard to believe you went to the TA for help, then the TA helped you "too much" and you got in trouble for asking for help. If this actually is what happened, seems like a non-issue to me. Please post the text written in the schools conduct letter in its entirety.

 

[polymerization]

Sounds pretty minor tbh, if this is actually the whole context. It's hard to believe you went to the TA for help, then the TA helped you "too much" and you got in trouble for asking for help. If this actually is what happened, seems like a non-issue to me. Please post the text written in the schools conduct letter in its entirety.

I agree. There's definitely something missing here. Especially so if this made it through enough of a process to warrant formal action.

There were plenty of students at my university who blatantly cheated and felt indignant about being caught. None received an IA, though—even when the instances were clear, obviously premeditated, and high stakes (like cheating on final exams). I've gone to 3 schools and at all of them, there were a stupid amount of warnings involved, primarily because students would become litigious and insist on a smoking gun even when proof was evident. What ends up happening is a slap on the wrist, which is what OP describes.

My school had an underground cheating ring with "summer deals" where you could have 2 or more classes completely taken for you at "one low price." This was huge for my organic lab, because if you didn't know the procedure, you can't gather data in lab, and if you can't do that, you can't write your lab reports, which is like 90% of your grade. If you were skating by the theory and cheating in the lecture, the lab is designed to make that harder to fake. People still successfully cheated and would set the curve above 100% (by correctly answering softball extra credit questions), which shouldn't be possible and is absolutely unfair to honest students trying to exceed expectations the old-fashioned way...by actually knowing stuff.

Maybe OP will provide more information about the details...but as it stands, I am suspicious.

 

[polymerization]

Yeah, you see, that changes everything.

You didn't go to a TA. You had TAs to go to, but you went to a friend who told you they had the solution manual and just copied that. Whether you did that in the library, in a box, with a fox, in a house, in a blouse—it doesn't matter, it's still cheating. I can also imagine your friend is also no longer your friend for implicating them in formal academic integrity proceedings.

It also doesn't make sense substantively. Whether we're talking about an aldol condensation or a ylide-mediated reaction like Wittig, if you have a starting substrate and a reactant, you're going to have the exact same electron-pushing diagrams every time. The reaction scheme would theoretically be the same for every student.

So, my guess is that you were intimidated by the course, treated it as mission-critical to get as much credit as possible on your lab reports, and submitted something that is ultimately verbatim from the solutions manual.

An additional guess is that the solutions manual was also difficult to read for someone who isn't well-read in chemistry, so finding ways to restate what is already being clearly stated in the solutions becomes difficult, which means you're more likely to submit verbatim or near-verbatim passages from the manual in an attempt to avoid your own misinterpretations.


Overall, it's probably not good. Procedurally, this is a relevant infraction and you should probably be upfront about it. If it were me, there is absolutely no use in resisting this and I would probably lean on reflections on what I learned about myself and my approach to education more broadly, rather than trying to insist that it was a technicality or someone misunderstood.

 

[polymerization]

I appreciate taking the time to give me a response. I was already planning on not resisting it. Respectfully, I never insisted that I didn't mess up and even wrote that it was my fault.

Additionally, I did not just copy the solution manual. My friend met with us and had us try to work out the problem, then wrote the reaction scheme on a white board so we understood each step.
Don't worry my friend is still my friend. My professor offered to waive the report if I gave up a name and I didn't. I was also not in a "mission-critical" situation. I still received an A in the course after receiving a 0 on all related assignments.

You're welcome, I genuinely do hope it works out for you.

To be fair, you don't have to explain it to me, I wasn't there and can't validate anything that you say. But, just from seeing the way you explain this, it's really hard to believe you because your reasoning is internally inconsistent. Here's why:

- The professor notes that this wasn't just a "you and your lab partner" problem, but an entire group of students, across several questions and, indeed, entire assignments.

- Even if this was within a tutoring context, your friend teaching you at the library would not lead you to have verbatim answers from the solutions manual, unless they shared it with you or recited it to you. Either situation is indubitably cheating in any setting. In this sense, it's almost worse that you insist you aren't like all the other people who got caught, because you refuse to actually acknowledge the situation.

- Your response to your professor's offer was very telling. If you genuinely believed everything you were doing was kosher, then what is the problem? Either it was all a misunderstanding, or it wasn't—and it kind of sounds like it wasn't and you were willing to take the IA. Which, in all seriousness, good for you—some integrity is better than none.

- Whether you received an A in the course, a 530 on the MCAT, or an honorary MD from Harvard, it really doesn't diffuse the reality that academic misconduct brings your entire academic history into scrutiny. While I want to believe you're a good, well-meaning student, it kind of sounds like you still think this was blown out of proportion and you didn't do anything wrong, which leads me to imagine other possible instances of misconduct you may rationalize to yourself that you haven't been caught for.

I'm not going to lie to you, I think this is serious. This is a career where you are expected to have high levels of integrity due to the high levels of responsibility placed upon you. If you thought undergrad was hard, medical school and residency will be harder, with higher stakes—literally life and death.

Disclaimer: I'm literally just a student like you, but I've been around the block for a while. While I am not privy to the internal conversations of admissions committees, I do think any adult with a higher education has enough experience with academic handbooks and course materials to be able to tell what is a reasonable expectation for a student given a situation.

Who knows, maybe every professional on the planet disagrees. It just feels very common sense.

 

[einvincible12]

This is crazy, why did you try to play this down on an anonymous forum online. You did not go to a TA, you went to your friend (who happened to be a TA in the past and therefore had the solutions manual). Wording it like you went to your TA is completely lying…

Starting owning it and maybe you’ll be fine, but if you don’t own it whatever school accepts you will read this letter, see how you obviously lied to them, and rescind.

 

[Goro]

Hello. I was getting stressed thinking about this situation and would like some honest feedback.

I am currently a senior and in my sophomore year, my ochem lab professor reported me for dishonesty. I had asked a TA for help and he would walk through the assignment with me but the professor deemed his level of assistance to be too much. The school decided this was a minor infraction and it was resolved with a resolution with the instructor. The resolution ended up being to receive a 0 on certain assignments but I still ended the course with an A (1 credit course). The incident is not on my transcript but I believe the school is holding the case file for some time which can be accessed with my permission.

This incidence aside I have a 3.88 gpa and 521 mcat score with pretty good ec’s. I am worried this will hurt my chances as I have heard any record of AI could get your app thrown out. How much will this affect me? I appreciate any response and advice. Thank you!

You'll need to report it; just own it. Sometimes the appearance of reality is more important than reality itself.

Also, sometimes you have to apply with the app you have, warts and all.

 

[polymerization]

I can't speak for everyone, but what I personally have been trying to explain to you is that you need to get your story straight. It's not irredeemable, it's just an obstacle you'll face that, in all honesty, is a shame—you swung big and hit the MCAT out of the park... but none of that matters if the perception is that you're a cheater and a liar.

I think you should maybe sit down and compose a narrative that acknowledges the reality of the situation. You have an IA and that isn't something casual, and I think you know that. The defense you're giving does directly intend to relitigate the legitimacy of the IA itself, which I think is circular and pointless.

Having a story that sounds like "I was overwhelmed, did something dumb, which led me to change my thinking about school in X, Y, Z ways. In a way, this was an enormous warning sign that in retrospect made me a more ethical and morally upright participant in the academic environment" is a lot more forward-facing and contemplative than "No, no, I don't even know why they would ever even say that! I was a sweetie baby angel! Look at my grades!"

It's not going to be possible to revert to a situation where you didn't have the IA, and it is not worth deluding yourself into thinking you can. You can only make the next right choice from here.