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I loved the game.

You know who could have pulled a win off with precision passes? Montana in his prime. You know who lobbed a ball down field blindly looking more like a Warren Moon? Brady. Montana, Elway, Marino he is not.
 
I'm so glad we don't have to listen to Patriots fans for a while.
 
I loved the game.

You know who could have pulled a win off with precision passes? Montana in his prime. You know who lobbed a ball down field blindly looking more like a Warren Moon? Brady. Montana, Elway, Marino he is not.

One of the greatest Super Bowl games in recent memory for me. I'm not really much of a Giants fan, to be honest, I just wanted to see the Patriots get the ole beatdown by the G-MEN.

And, jeezaloo... Hail Marys for everybody! Brady's been loading up on those!

The best thing about this, as someone already mentioned, is none of us will have to listen to buttwipe Pats fans for a while. 19-0 my ***!

:banana:
 
You know who could have pulled a win off with precision passes? Montana in his prime. You know who lobbed a ball down field blindly looking more like a Warren Moon? Brady. Montana, Elway, Marino he is not.

Yes! Thank you! 👍
 
No great lover of the Pats am I, but I could easily put together a highlight reel of Brady that would put those three to shame. A poor showing in his fourth Super Bowl doesn't make him a bad QB. The O-line didn't help much either . . .

And of course, don't forget Brady has more rings than Elway and Marino combined.

I agree. While he had a bad game last night, he is a superb quarterback, one of the greatest, IMO. This was the first year he had any real weapons to speak of, and look at the records he set.

On the other hand, what about Eli! More evidence that the SEC produces great QBs year after year. "The Play" was the probably the greatest Super Bowl moment ever.
 
No great lover of the Pats am I, but I could easily put together a highlight reel of Brady that would put those three to shame. A poor showing in his fourth Super Bowl doesn't make him a bad QB. The O-line didn't help much either . . .

And of course, don't forget Brady has more rings than Elway and Marino combined.

Brady's greatest asset (besides his girlfriend) is his offensive line. People like to call him a great general who can march his team down the field, but he can do that because he has a great offensive line that allows him to see the field. When he gets hit, he gets just as rattled as any average quarterback in the NFL and makes errant throws (see Super Bowl XLII for evidence of that) or gets happy feet. Brady is very apt to just go down when he feels the pressure (I can put together a highlight reel of that from just this season).

I challenge you to put together your highlight reel of Brady making plays happen by escaping a sack, either with a quick release (a la Peyton Manning and Dan Marino) or by using his legs (like Elway, Young). You have to admit that Elway and Marino never had the team Brady has had (one could argue Elway did during his last 2 years, and all he did with that was win 2 Super Bowls). All things equal, I think they are far superior quarterbacks than Tom Brady.

It was so sweet to see him get knocked around. I loved it!
 
No great lover of the Pats am I, but I could easily put together a highlight reel of Brady that would put those three to shame. A poor showing in his fourth Super Bowl doesn't make him a bad QB. The O-line didn't help much either . . .

And of course, don't forget Brady has more rings than Elway and Marino combined.

Now im not going to say he isnt a great qb. Im just saying that these "greatest of all times" sort of praises are coming a bit quick and easy. The guy has a team around him that makes coaches have wet dreams. He's like a Kurt Warner...when every reciever you have runs a forty in the blink of an eye and your line can block you look like a super-hero and win bowel games...those team-mates go by-by now you limp off the field holding your wrist and fade into obscurity. People like the above mentioned QBs had Careers...they did it every year with many teams (personel wise) till they retired. This guy has had a cohesive team and one of the best coaches ever. I have yet to see that he improves his team versus his team improving him. I think about 8 different quarterbacks could fill his shoes right now and the patriots would be in the same position. You could not say that of the Dolphins under Marino or the broncos under elway...well you could but you'd look stupid.
 
No great lover of the Pats am I, but I could easily put together a highlight reel of Brady that would put those three to shame. A poor showing in his fourth Super Bowl doesn't make him a bad QB. The O-line didn't help much either . . .

And of course, don't forget Brady has more rings than Elway and Marino combined.

I've always respected Brady and believe he's awesome, but after last night I don't think he's not on the same level as Montana, Elway, or even Favre. I'm more of the belief that he's the beneficiary of an excellent system, rather than a QB who leads a team to victory. As much credit as Brady gets, Belichick is the dude responsible for the rings.

My memories of Montana include him rolling out of a collapsed pocket to find Clark in the back of the end zone. I recall Elway flying throught the air, getting helicoptored for a few extra yards. Favre brought creativity and ingenuity to the QB position. Brady? Maybe he's done something memorable and spectacular, but I can't just think of it right now. When I see the Pats winning in the last seconds I see Vinatieri.

Was Emmitt Smith a better RB than Barry Sanders? He surely had a better O-line. Having a solid O-line is immensely underrated.

For as much crap as Eli has taken this year, he cemented his place in history last night with the W and "the play yet to be named".

I like Brady...I'm jealous of Brady. He seems like a nice guy. But when it came time for him to step up and cement HIS place in Super Bowl history, he threw nothing but long incompletions. For real, 30 seconds and 3 timeouts, a so-called "football genius" on the sidelines, the most dynamic, unstoppable receiver of the season at wide-out, and all they do is throw a few long incompletions and walk off in defeat. That's weak.
 
Saying Brady is a system quarterback is pure ignorance. He has been in about 3 different systems now and does well in all of them. He even did decently well last night despite having someone in his face within 2 seconds of every snap. The last drive there just wasn't enough time, you can't blame Brady for that. There were about 7 D Backs over 30 yards deep. He has proven his worth on many occasions, including the drive last night that gave them the 14-10 lead. If any one of 5 things happened on the next Giants drive, the Pats win and the legend of Brady grows.

The loss last night was a team loss, not sure if it was preparation or fatigue or overconfidence (I doubt it was the last one).

Eli being elected MVP was a travesty, but the MVP award usually is. Anyone on the D-line deserved it far more. Eli played well, but he came within inches of a critical mistake about 10 different times, any one of which goes the other way and he is the goat (like the fumble on the final drive that he fell on himself, the sack he almost took on 3rd down, the multiple passes that were almost intercepted). The Giants got a lot of breaks, but that's what happens in football. It is a game of inches. If Tyree doesn't make that catch, what would the talk be today? If Jacobs didn't get that 6 inches, what would be the talk today? You play well enough, you will get breaks and take advantage of them. I am a Pats fan but can appreciate the fact that the Giants just went out and won that game. They made the plays when they had to. They played harder and probably deserved it more. That's the way things go. Giants fans probably feel like Pats fans did when the pats won in 2002 - partial disbelief but utter joy. Enjoy it, and enjoy the victory for what it is.
 
He has been in about 3 different systems now and does well in all of them.

What 3 systems has he had? He has only had 2 offensive coordinators (Charlie Weis and Josh McDaniels), and McDaniels is running Weis' offense. He's had one system; one that (until this year) was mostly a run (to set up) to pass offense. He's had probably the best offensive line in the league since he started. People talk about how many NFL quarterbacks could do what Brady does (if not better) if they played for the Pats, but I'd like to see Brady play for the Titans or the Chiefs or the Lions (who have a comparable wide receiving corps) and see how great he would be then.

Eli being elected MVP was a travesty, but the MVP award usually is. Anyone on the D-line deserved it far more.

I don't think it was a travesty, but I agree that the defense definitely won this game for them; too bad it is MVP instead of MVT.

He even did decently well last night despite having someone in his face within 2 seconds of every snap. The last drive there just wasn't enough time, you can't blame Brady for that. There were about 7 D Backs over 30 yards deep. He has proven his worth on many occasions, including the drive last night that gave them the 14-10 lead. If any one of 5 things happened on the next Giants drive, the Pats win and the legend of Brady grows.
Eli played well, but he came within inches of a critical mistake about 10 different times, any one of which goes the other way and he is the goat (like the fumble on the final drive that he fell on himself, the sack he almost took on 3rd down, the multiple passes that were almost intercepted).

The Giants got a lot of breaks, but that's what happens in football. It is a game of inches. If Tyree doesn't make that catch, what would the talk be today? If Jacobs didn't get that 6 inches, what would be the talk today? You play well enough, you will get breaks and take advantage of them.

I think all these statements are a direct result of...

I am a Pats fan...

You can't just acknowledge that your team was outplayed without mentioning the "buts" and the "breaks" the Giants had. You say Brady did well in the face of all the pressure he faced and then say Eli got lucky in a lot of situations. Did you see that lame duck Brady threw last night that was about 10 yards off the mark and would have been an easy pick had any of the DB's in the area just turned around to see where the ball was? Do you think that pick Manning threw in the first half was all skill on the part of Hobbs? What about when Smith (I think) found the softspot in the defense and had a ton of daylight in front of him but he dropped the ball?

Did you talk about the break the Patriots caught when the Ravens beat them, but had an errant timeout called that cost them the game? If you want to talk about the biggest break of the season, that was it, and it was in the Patriots favor. You don't win 18 games without some luck. So it didn't go their way last night; that's how luck works. Just give credit to the Giants for playing an awesome game and leave out the "buts." It takes away from what they did and how great they played (all this from a diehard Cowboys fan who wasn't rooting for the Giants to win last night, but more for the Patriots to lose. It takes a lot for me to compliment the Giants, but they played one of the greatest defensive games I've ever seen last night and I owe them their props).
 
It takes a lot for me to compliment the Giants, but they played one of the greatest defensive games I've ever seen....

Someone mentioned that the Pats "looked weak", but thats just a function of how well the Giants D played. Brady was hit on almost every pass play.

The Giants D put pressure on Brady the whole game, played the run well, defended against Moss & the deep pass, openfield tackled well to minimize gains & stuffed most of the quickscreens and screen passes the Pats usually turn into big plays.

Their only weaknesses were missing a few tackles when Faulk caught short passes out of the backfield & being exhausted on the last Pats drive.
 
Saying Brady is a system quarterback is pure ignorance. He has been in about 3 different systems now and does well in all of them. He even did decently well last night despite having someone in his face within 2 seconds of every snap. The last drive there just wasn't enough time, you can't blame Brady for that. There were about 7 D Backs over 30 yards deep. He has proven his worth on many occasions, including the drive last night that gave them the 14-10 lead. If any one of 5 things happened on the next Giants drive, the Pats win and the legend of Brady grows.

The loss last night was a team loss, not sure if it was preparation or fatigue or overconfidence (I doubt it was the last one).

Eli being elected MVP was a travesty, but the MVP award usually is.

I'll agree with the MVP part. I think the MVP should've gone to the G-men d-line. Not sure what "systems" you're talking about with Brady, but I've seen him excel in the Belicheck system, and only that.

Team loss? Dude, what kind of koolaid are you drinking? In the week before the game Plax says it'll be 21-17. Brady responds smugly with "only 17?...". Karma sucks, right? Welker had a great game turning 5 yard passes into 15 yard gains. Moss had a fine game (but people say he didn't b/c he didn't catch any of the 253 bombs Brady threw him). The Pats lost b/c the G-men d-line was overwhelming and Brady couldn't handle it. I'd say Belicheck was clueless and unprepared, but since you're giving Brady all the glory for being so great, you may as well hang the loss on his helmet too. He had a bad game. That Pats lost b/c of it.
 
Just give credit to the Giants for playing an awesome game and leave out the "buts."

I thought I did. I said they played well and took the game. But there were lots of breaks. Of course the pats got breaks when they won previously. They got some breaks in the super bowl too. That is how football is. That was the point I was trying to make, geez, I not trying to criticize the giants. And yes, if the Giants had lost, you could look at any number of breaks that didn't go their way. I didn't think i was whining about the game, sorry if you thought that way, the Giants looked like the best team in the league. I was disappointed in the results, but at least the loss wasn't due to flukes or bad refereeing or anything else. It was just one team beating the other. But I still maintain that Eli wasn't the MVP. As I said, he played well, but there were a lot of lucky breaks. And yes, I know, Brady has gotten many lucky breaks before too. You become good in part by creating the conditions for getting lucky breaks and taking advantage of them. I posted that too. All credit to Eli for staying focused and taking advantage.

As far as Brady and the O-line, did you see sunday's game? They weren't very good then. And did you see his WR corps last year? Worst in the league and still they came within a few plays of the super bowl. You can look for flaws in Brady and try to explain away how good he is, but it really doesn't make much sense to do so. By the same logic you could call Peyton Manning a system quarterback or Joe Montana a system quarterback. 🙄

In regards to the team loss - it was a team loss, Brady included. He could have played better, yes, but he wasn't the only one. Maybe Welker and Adalius Thomas were the exceptions. I agree that the main reason for the victory/loss was because of the Giants D-line. But Brady handled it reasonably well. You can't throw 40 yard bombs when you have 2 seconds to throw.

There is a tendecy these days for fans to want to blame one person for losses (or give credit to one person). Brady wasn't solely responsible for all the victories, nor is he solely responsible for the losses. But I will say I was kind of disappointed in his performance in both the AFC championship and in the SB. He seemed to have lost a bit of the edge that has made him so good. Don't know why. Maybe it was the ankle, maybe he was tired, maybe he didn't care as much as he used to.
 
I thought I did. I said they played well and took the game. But there were lots of breaks.

This is exactly what I meant; you say they did great, BUT... There were breaks on both sides of the ball and there are always breaks on both sides of the ball in every game. The Giants didn't win because of the breaks, they won because they outplayed the Pats. I know you tried to rationalize it in the latter part of your post, but the fact is you shouldn't even mention the breaks, because they were on both sides and were a non-factor.

But I still maintain that Eli wasn't the MVP. As I said, he played well, but there were a lot of lucky breaks.
And yes, I know, Brady has gotten many lucky breaks before too. You become good in part by creating the conditions for getting lucky breaks and taking advantage of them.

Then why doesn't Eli deserve the MVP? If Brady is good because he gets breaks and takes advantage of them, what did Eli do that was different? More Brady-loving double-talk. 🙄

As far as Brady and the O-line, did you see sunday's game? They weren't very good then.

Exactly. That is precisely my point. Brady was hammered and they didn't win because he "couldn't create his breaks...."

And did you see his WR corps last year? Worst in the league and still they came within a few plays of the super bowl.

I think the Pats WRs last year were far from the worst in the league. They were in no way what they were this year, but last year they weren't even in the bottom 3 in the AFC East.

You can't throw 40 yard bombs when you have 2 seconds to throw.
1. Yes, you can. There won't be a receiver there to catch it, but you can hurl the ball as soon as it is snapped. It isn't like video games where you have to hold down the B button for 2 seconds to start glowing and let one fly down the field.
2. If you weren't talking about the physics of it, then why not look for the underneath stuff? The drive where they scored their second touchdown was all underneath passes, then letting his great receivers make plays in the open field. Maybe the coverage was good, and Brady doesn't have the pinpoint accuracy of the greats to thread the needle and squeeze one in there.
3. If you are saying that isn't the Patriots way, but instead they have to play long ball, then I interpret that to mean Brady a one-dimensional quarterback (hardly one of the best all time; Jeff George had a much better long-ball arm than Brady) who can only throw long passes to one of the best receivers in history, one who made some near-impossible catches this year to help Brady get that TD record he has. I think that is a disservice to Brady.

No, Brady isn't a great quarterback, he just lives behind a great offensive line. Take that away and you see just how mortal he is. Thank you, New York Giants for proving what I've said all along. Tom Brady is a good quarterback who doesn't force things because he doesn't have to, which cuts down on his mistakes. Look at sideline footage from most of the games in the season; he wasn't even sweating and his hair was still perfectly quaffed. Why? Because he never gets hit. It is easy to avoid mistakes if you don't get hit.

But I will say I was kind of disappointed in his performance in both the AFC championship and in the SB. He seemed to have lost a bit of the edge that has made him so good. Don't know why. Maybe it was the ankle, maybe he was tired, maybe he didn't care as much as he used to.

Maybe he's just a pretty boy who doesn't like to get hit in the mouth, and when he does, it screws up his ability to play catch. Who really knows?😀
 
Soc MD is right on this one.

Brady is an average QB talent wise who doesn't have very good accuracy.

What he always HAS had was a great O-Line, quick receivers who turn 3 yard dinks into 20 yard passes and a DEFENSE that made sure he only had to score 2 or 3 TD's to win the game and the D gives you several attempts starting at the 50 or better. He's a dinker, not a passer.

He is Trent Dilfer only staying with the same team/defense and winning as a TEAM. He doesn't have the physical ability to actually carry the team himself (as was proven in the SB and a couple of years ago when he consistantly stunk it up trying to play catch up when his defense wasn't as good).

You gotta give him credit for knowing where to go with the ball and not making many mistakes (of course it's easy to stay patient when you know 2-3 TD's is all it will take to win the game thanks to the defense). Now that we have spygate you wonder if the reason he seemed to know where to go with the ball so much in the past was a result of the video and knowing the exact play the defense was going to run ahead of time.
 
Big Fred Robbins from my alma mater was representin. Loved that guy during college and glad to see him dominate the line in the Super Bowl. He stood out even amongst Strahan and Umenyiora.

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He is Trent Dilfer only staying with the same team/defense and winning as a TEAM. He doesn't have the physical ability to actually carry the team himself (as was proven in the SB and a couple of years ago when he consistantly stunk it up trying to play catch up when his defense wasn't as good).

There is no earthly way I could ever argue with someone who would make a comment like this so I am not even going to try. Enjoy the victory.

You'd probably also argue that David Ortiz is just Tony Clark with a good lineup around him.
 
I loved the game.

You know who could have pulled a win off with precision passes? Montana in his prime. You know who lobbed a ball down field blindly looking more like a Warren Moon? Brady. Montana, Elway, Marino he is not.

While I am a huge Marino fan, he doesn't really fit there. One visit to the superbowl, where he lost...

I am not a patriots fan by any means (dolphins and colts...) but Brady still is pretty good. It is hard to do much of anything when you are getting jacked up by very large men. 😛 The QB position is as much about those decisions as it is anything else. I think it is hard to call him an average qb when he set the td record. I know he has a good receiving core now, but if randy moss made even average guys good..then why didn't Dante break every record in the books? Contrary to popular believe, those little screen passes are actually very tough to do well. How many times do you see screen plays get blown up on other teams? I don't think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he isn't shabby. If a couple field goals went left or right then he'd be the QB who could never finish it out. He should probably thank the kicker more than anyone.
 
Contrary to popular believe, those little screen passes are actually very tough to do well. How many times do you see screen plays get blown up on other teams?.

The success of screen passes is predicated on how aggressive the defensive linemen are rushing up the field, which is why screen plays run are often run on obvious passing downs. If the D-line can't realize that no one is blocking them (which usually happens when they're tired from a long drive & more likely to have a mental lapse) and turn around to find the back waiting for the screen pass, then a high school QB could complete that pass.

If a couple field goals went left or right then he'd be the QB who could never finish it out. He should probably thank the kicker more than anyone.

Kicker's ruin football. The players fight their hearts out all 4 quarters, then some little guy with a 1 bar facemask runs out and shanks the ball. Lace's out, Finkle!
 
If the Spygate thing blows up big-time, and Belichick gets the axe, it will be interesting to see how well Tom and his cohorts hold up.

Not that I don't think Belichick isn't a good coach, but his public persona is so irritating that I would like to see him suspended for a year or so if the Spygate thing persists.
 
I was actually going to make a post earlier today about how Tom Brady reminds me a lot of Joe Montana; an average talent quarterback who had a good team that allowed him to look like a statistical giant. Montana had a good line, a good running back and at least one great receiver pretty much his entire career. He made very few absolutely dazzling plays, but he did make completions when he needed to and his offensive line allowed him to find the open guy and throw it up to him (Jerry Rice) to make a play. He also ran the West Coast offense in its infancy (meaning defenses weren't as good at defending it as they are now), so he did a lot of 5-yard passes as well.

Tired said:
So, as you can clearly see from this chart, you are ******ed.
This made me laugh. 🙂
 
.........................Att......Comp.....Rating.....INT

Tom Brady.........3642....2294.......92.9......86
Dan Marino........8358.....4967.......86.4.....252
John Elway........7250.....4123.......79.9.....226
Joe Montana......5391.....3409.......92.3.....139


So, as you can clearly see from this chart, you are ******ed.

😀


You could show a chart from a couple of years ago when he didn't have SUPERIOR talent around him and he had to try and carry the team. You will see that he didn't fare too well at all even though he still had a superior defense.

He didn't have those receivers that could turn a 3 yard pass into 70 yards.

Accuracy has never been his strong point. Just look at the Super Bowl. When he had to throw it more than 5 or 10 yards he was WAY off. His best attributes have been to play within his limits and let the rest of the team win the game. Play smart and not rush things. Sooner or later one of those dinks will turn into a big play and get you close enough to get a TD, especially when you are always on the opponents side of the field thanks to that great defense.

I give him credit where he deserves it. He's a smart quarterback that doesn't make many mistakes, but for passing ability hes just average (average for an NFL QB is still pretty darn good but he doesn't turn any heads with his throwing ability).
 
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