2006 In-Training Exam Scores

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southerndoc

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Well, how did you do?

My PD hasn't dispensed the data yet. The suspense is driving me nuts. It's like knowing your step score is in the mailbox, but you can't get to it.

Speaking of which, it took me an entire 4 hours to finish day 2 of step 3. Did anyone else finish each of the cases in like 5 minutes real-time? The cases kept ending so quickly. I'm hoping they were ending because I was doing things right, not killing the patient!
 
southerndoc said:
Well, how did you do?

My PD hasn't dispensed the data yet. The suspense is driving me nuts. It's like knowing your step score is in the mailbox, but you can't get to it.

Speaking of which, it took me an entire 4 hours to finish day 2 of step 3. Did anyone else finish each of the cases in like 5 minutes real-time? The cases kept ending so quickly. I'm hoping they were ending because I was doing things right, not killing the patient!

The clinical cases were a joke - I was done on day 2 before noon. I affrimatively didn't kill any patients, and my cases were ending in 5-7 minutes - even in the one case when I made the diagnosis, but had no idea how to treat it (I would tell you, but I can't legally). The instructions said that "experts may use a streamlined method and complete the cases quickly..." which is where I figure we are (as EM residents).
 
Our PD put the scores in our mailbox today. She wasn't going to release them until our resident retreat in 2 weeks but after some begging, she agreed. I hate that suspense - even if the results really don't mean that much.

What do you mean "cases" for step 3. The COMLEX doesn't have cases as part of our step 3 exam. It was 2 days of paper and pencil exams though. I was seeing little bubbles in my sleep!!
 
That makes me feel better that others didn't take long with clinical cases. Maybe I was accomplishing the objectives quickly.

If I fail this, I'm going to kiss myself in the rear. I studied absolutely NONE for Step 3. I was going to reschedule the week before the test, but found out it would cost $400 to do so!

At any rate, I got my score. Went up 2 points from last year, but my percentile dropped. At any rate, if it were the real deal, I would've passed. 🙂
 
What, the scores are out?
 
Help us new EM incoming residents to understand the significance of the inservice examination. What is the big deal? Do you even have to pass it? I mean how many people actually go on to fail the boards anyway? My guess is that you could draw some sort of correlation with USMLE scores, grades, and inservice scores, and that the same people who barely get by will continue to barely get by. I thought residency was where we were supposed to really start learning and not worrying so much about scores. Is there some sort of bonus pay for doing well or something? The way I see it, read a few hours per week, work hard at work, play hard at home, and let it all come out in the wash. I am no longer killing myself for high grades and scores, and I figure the preparation I used to get to this point and level will continue to serve me well with this philosophy.
 
corpsmanUP said:
Help us new EM incoming residents to understand the significance of the inservice examination. What is the big deal? Do you even have to pass it? I mean how many people actually go on to fail the boards anyway? My guess is that you could draw some sort of correlation with USMLE scores, grades, and inservice scores, and that the same people who barely get by will continue to barely get by. I thought residency was where we were supposed to really start learning and not worrying so much about scores. Is there some sort of bonus pay for doing well or something? The way I see it, read a few hours per week, work hard at work, play hard at home, and let it all come out in the wash. I am no longer killing myself for high grades and scores, and I figure the preparation I used to get to this point and level will continue to serve me well with this philosophy.


The in-service is a voluntary test programs can choose to participate in. It's offered by the ABEM which is the credentialling society for EM. It's taken once during each year of training. Every year they publish a graph showing the correlation between in-service and board scores. Supposedly a raw score of about 70% is needed to pass your written board.

Programs who are weak academically (like mine) tend to overemphasize it so that it makes them look like they are actually teaching if students do well. If your program takes it seriously you can be placed on academic probation if you score poorly (no moonlighting, etc).
 
For those programs who use it, it can be very important. It is often the only subjective way to distinguish where one is "ranked" in their program, and as the General mentioned, can also be a trigger for remediation or loss of activities (CME, moonlighting, etc). The raw score to pass the real thing is 75%, and statistically, those who score 75% on the inservice have a 95% chance of passing the real thing their first time. Check with your program to see what emphasis they place on the test - you may be reading more than you think next year...
 
GeneralVeers said:
The in-service is a voluntary test programs can choose to participate in. It's offered by the ABEM which is the credentialling society for EM. It's taken once during each year of training. Every year they publish a graph showing the correlation between in-service and board scores. Supposedly a raw score of about 70% is needed to pass your written board.

Programs who are weak academically (like mine) tend to overemphasize it so that it makes them look like they are actually teaching if students do well. If your program takes it seriously you can be placed on academic probation if you score poorly (no moonlighting, etc).

General and Cman:

1. I don't think it's voluntary, all programs must participate.
2. The graph is useful in determining who among the residents is more likely to be in trouble on their boards. Thus I use it to determine who gets put in an intensive study program. Residents who are marginal can usually greatly improve their performance if prodded.
3. You're right Cman, It's not about grades at this level. You're in competition with yourselves at this point. You owe it to your patients to be the best docotr that you can. That includes study.
4. General, it's not about whether the program is teaching, it about whether the residents are learning. And I doubt if it's only the "weak" programs. Do badly on this test at any residency and you'll have a discussion with your boss.

BTW, I have nothing to do with this test, but it's written by EM content experts and administered by Statistical experts. I'll claim journeyman status for both of those fields. The test apears to me to be valid and and a useful tool in tracking your progress as a EP in training.

BTW2 Cman, I understand you are tired of tests, however the way things are going, you can expect it never to end for the rest of your career. The major thrust at the residency level now is to develop valid measures of the general competencies, specialty competencies and other stuff. The general competencies are medical knowledge, patient care, interpersonal and communication skills, system-based practice, practice-based learning, and professionalism. Our specialty competencies are chief complaint, resuscitation and procedure. Start memorizing them, it looks bad if you can't recite them when the RRC comes to town.

After you graduate and pass your boards (part 1 and 2), you'll have to take a small open book test on twenty designated articles every year and a big test every ten years to keep your certification.

All this comes from a number of things coming together.

1. Public perception of widespread incompetence in healthcare. The IOM report based on the Harvard Malpractice studies hurt us badly even though the former was politcally based nonsense that latter were methodologically criminal.
2. Good data that suggests physicians continue to practice the medicine they were taught in residency for 30 -40 years. This despite the fact that medical info is exploding and the halflife for medical info is about 5 years.

So the plan is to train every physician to self-learn and develop the EBM and literature habits that the best academics have. It's possible, there is no difference in abilities between the town and gown.
 
Hey BKN,

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't saying I was not going to study...I was simply saying that I am no longer going to let it dictate my existence. You've seen many a resident come through over the years and I am sure you have some basis to comment on how their USMLE/COMLEX scores correlated with their boards. With that said, I don't look at reading EM texts as studying, because I fu$%ing love this shI$!!!! I keep Annals of EM by the crapper and intentionally eat less fiber to get more reading time. When it comes down to what you truly enjoy, its more about feeling like you are the best at what you do. That's what I want to feel like! That said, my goal is to pass the inservice exam the first time so I can know I will only go up from there. 75%, 85%, 95% over 3 years is possible I would think, and once you pass it the first year you can relax and know that your reading is more for yourself than for a score. As I always say...lay down the suppressive fire early and often and you will rarely take a surprise round in the kisser!!
 
Most programs use the in-training exam to judge who is likely to have problem with the board exam. At my program, if you score less than 30% in the nation (or it might be the 25th percentile), then you are placed in an intensive learning program of assigned readings, questions, etc.

If you score above this, then it's generally thought that you are doing this on your own without difficulty.
 
corpsmanUP said:
Hey BKN,

I keep Annals of EM by the crapper and intentionally eat less fiber to get more reading time.

😉 thats gotta hurt.

% correct that approximately predicts a 80% passage rate of part 1. In other words twice the failure rate as overal: EM1 59, EM2 66, EM3 70.

AS for your goals EM1 75% correct = 76th percentile, EM2 85% correct = 89th percentile, EM3 95% correct = 98th percentile
 
BKN said:
😉 thats gotta hurt.

% correct that approximately predicts a 80% passage rate of part 1. In other words twice the failure rate as overal: EM1 59, EM2 66, EM3 70.

AS for your goals EM1 75% correct = 76th percentile, EM2 85% correct = 89th percentile, EM3 95% correct = 98th percentile



Our highest grade in our intern class was 80%, while our highest senior scored 94%. I'm not certain how he's able to do that....

The ABEM lady came to lecture us one day on the board certification process. She presented a slide show, which briefly mentioned the inservice exam, and claimed that it was "voluntary for programs to participate".
 
GeneralVeers said:
Our highest grade in our intern class was 80%, while our highest senior scored 94%. I'm not certain how he's able to do that....

The ABEM lady came to lecture us one day on the board certification process. She presented a slide show, which briefly mentioned the inservice exam, and claimed that it was "voluntary for programs to participate".

BKN, what does a 3rd year 92% correlate to in percentile?

I'm on nights, so I didn't get to here the stats for this year.

mike
 
mikecwru said:
BKN, what does a 3rd year 92% correlate to in percentile?

I'm on nights, so I didn't get to here the stats for this year.

mike

92 EM3 = 97th percentile. Did you need a job? 😀
 
GeneralVeers said:
We dropped from top 1% of programs to top 25% of programs this year. Our chairman is not pleased with us.......

Still really good for a program you self described as weak. Hold your heads high.
 
BKN said:
92 EM3 = 97th percentile. Did you need a job? 😀

Oh, I would love to go to Texas. My wife, however, would not. I'll be staying in Cleveland, molding young minds.

mike
 
Seriously, can a high board score be an asset for a job search?
 
corpsmanUP said:
Seriously, can a high board score be an asset for a job search?

Well, I like it.
 
BKN said:
Well, I like it.

Do recruiters (private groups) etc ask for these things? I guess I will learn more of the intricacies of job hunting later... but just wondering what stuff I need to focus on besides showing up on time and busting my tail day in and day out...
 
Not sure what my individual score was yet, but out program tied for 5th place in the nation overall. Our breakdown by class is as follows, cut and pasted from our PD's email..
Resident Performance

EM-3s
a.. 3 scored > 90th percentile including 2 who scored >95th percentile
b.. ABEM states that EM-3s who score at least 76% of questions correct have a 90% or better chance of passing the ABEM written exam.
c.. 14 of our 15 EM-3s achieved this minimum.
EM-2s
a.. 5 scored > 90th percentile including 2 who scored >95th percentile
EM-1s
a.. 9 scored > 90th percentile including 6 who scored >95th percentile

Pretty good. This places us top 6.5% overall which makes the PD very happy, as he is looking to promote to full bird colonel soon. Hopefully I didn't keep us out of the top 5% all on my own!
Steve
 
Yeah, my contract states taht I need to be BC by three years out.

I'm really drunk right now.

Good night.

(Celebrating my good inservice score... wifey is taking me out to dinner tomorrow).

Q
 
I really busted out laughing when I read that Quinn was drunk! His words were even spoken like someone who was drunk....except we couldn't hear the slurring!
 
corpsmanUP said:
I keep Annals of EM by the crapper and intentionally eat less fiber to get more reading time.

I keep Academic Emergency Medicine by the crapper but never have time to finish an article. Must be the large bowl of Raisin Bran I have every morning. 😀

I understand what you're saying about wanting to get away from worrying so much about exam scores. Medical school has been one test after another. It's like you're only as good as your last shelf or Step.

To the residents: What would you recommend to EM1's as preparation for the inservice, given the time constraints of the intern year? I don't know that I'll have time to read a significant chunk of Rosens or Tintinalli between now and next February.
 
AlienHand said:
To the residents: What would you recommend to EM1's as preparation for the inservice, given the time constraints of the intern year? I don't know that I'll have time to read a significant chunk of Rosens or Tintinalli between now and next February.
Just try to survive internship. Don't really worry about the inservice. Do what your PD wants you to (be it read Tintinalli, Rosen's, or journal articles). Don't study specifically for the inservice. Be a good intern. Then take the test.

IMHO, of course.

Still drunk, but two more Mich Ultra's than the last post.

Q
 
All my senior residents told me to study from Vegas review, and our program gives out free copies to all residents every year. Additionally the Peer VI questions are helpful, as they cover the same material, but are significantly harder than the actual test questions.

I used both exclusively in preparation, and did reasonably well on the exam.




AlienHand said:
I keep Academic Emergency Medicine by the crapper but never have time to finish an article. Must be the large bowl of Raisin Bran I have every morning. 😀

I understand what you're saying about wanting to get away from worrying so much about exam scores. Medical school has been one test after another. It's like you're only as good as your last shelf or Step.

To the residents: What would you recommend to EM1's as preparation for the inservice, given the time constraints of the intern year? I don't know that I'll have time to read a significant chunk of Rosens or Tintinalli between now and next February.
 
While I think "surviving" internship is important, it is also important to start learning to make time to read. Even just 5-10 pages of tint/rosen's/billy jim's shade tree EP manual daily. You'll need the habit for the rest of your career anyway.
 
BKN said:
😉
% correct that approximately predicts a 80% passage rate of part 1. In other words twice the failure rate as overal: EM1 59, EM2 66, EM3 70.

Can you clarify what you mean?
 
94% score this time.

Hoo-rah.

It is my experience that doing well on the in-service is like taking a whiz while wearing a dark suit. It is relieving and feels warm, but nobody else really notices or cares. You do it for your own gratification.
 
NinerNiner999 said:
Can you clarify what you mean?

What I mean is that ABEM gives a graph of percentage passing the boards against inservice scores (percent correct not percentile). There are three lines graphed, one for each year of training. Since the scores go up about 8 points between year 1 and 2 and about 6 (I think) between year 2 and 3, the score predicting difficulty passing the written board is higher each year.

Since the overall passage rate in 90%, I picked the scores closest to predicting 80% passage to describe twice the failure rate.

BTW the correlation is only moderately strong even at very low in training scores. I believe that's because residents often get the message and buckle down.

If you want to see this graph, your PD has it. I think it's been published in the ABEM annual report as well.
 
jpgreer13 said:
94% score this time.

Hoo-rah.

It is my experience that doing well on the in-service is like taking a whiz while wearing a dark suit. It is relieving and feels warm, but nobody else really notices or cares. You do it for your own gratification.

Congrats. Well we notice it and proclaim it around my shop. What's wrong with your trousers?😕

I think you do it for your patients as well. I believe that an acceptable information base is a necessary but not sufficient condition for being a competent physician.

Similarly, I think that a great information base is a necessary but not sufficient condition for being a great physician.

The good part of EM is you're going to learn something new every shift for the rest of your life. It'll be a bad day if it's only one thing.

Karl Mangold, who hired a lot of physicians, used to say that it takes 30000 visits to make a good EP and 60000 to make an outstanding one. That's 6 and 12 years of very hard work. In residency you'll see only about 2000-3000 under supervision. You'll not take care of a single patient with some of the more uncommon emergencies, but you'll still need to know about them when you finally do see one by yourself in the middle of the night at St Elsewhere's. To speed the process it's lecture attendence and reading that's going to help your patients.

Well, enough blathering. 😳
 
jpgreer13 said:
94% score this time.

Hoo-rah.

It is my experience that doing well on the in-service is like taking a whiz while wearing a dark suit. It is relieving and feels warm, but nobody else really notices or cares. You do it for your own gratification.
You went down from intern year!

Q
 
jpgreer13 said:
94% score this time.

Hoo-rah.

It is my experience that doing well on the in-service is like taking a whiz while wearing a dark suit. It is relieving and feels warm, but nobody else really notices or cares. You do it for your own gratification.

word always gets out at my program. even more absurd is the top scorer in each class gets an award during our year-end graduation ceremony that's referred to as something like "the best intern award", etc. but they never take into account clinical aptitude or anything else, only the inservice test.

so its all program dependent
 
sweetfynesse said:
word always gets out at my program. even more absurd is the top scorer in each class gets an award during our year-end graduation ceremony that's referred to as something like "the best intern award", etc. but they never take into account clinical aptitude or anything else, only the inservice test.

so its all program dependent


Interestingly at our program the top scorers in each year have some of the worst clinical acumen. It's great to know a lot of stuff, but if you can't apply it, then it's worthless.
 
These scores confuse me. I don't feel like I did outstanding but I got something like a gross score of 87% which is apparantly something like 78% or something nationally.


All I really care about is, am I going to pass my frelling boards?
 
roja said:
These scores confuse me. I don't feel like I did outstanding but I got something like a gross score of 87% which is apparantly something like 78% or something nationally.


All I really care about is, am I going to pass my frelling boards?


Heh heh "frelling" = Farscape fan.

BTW you will pass your boards or you'll be in deep dren.
 
Ha. that's what you get for assuming.


I've never watched farscape. I just have friends that do and say it... what does deep dren mean???????? 😉
 
roja said:
what does deep dren mean???????? 😉

Don't know, but I'm guessing it isn't good.

BTW, I vote for Quinn's 'hang-on-with-both-hands-and-just-survive" approach. I read a couple of chapters a week for our reading quizzes, read up topically for clinical questions and try to sleep.

For the inservice, I used Rivers when I could find time. I liked it.

I'm hoping my schedule next year (which looks DAMN sweet compared with this year's) will allow more studying.

Take care,
Jeff
 
Hi,

What percentile does a score of 88 equate to for a first year resident?

Thanks
 
jf said:
Hi,

What percentile does a score of 88 equate to for a first year resident?

Thanks

Office locked up til Monday, I'll pm you. It's high.
 
jf said:
Hi,

What percentile does a score of 88 equate to for a first year resident?

Thanks


98 percentile for interns, 93 percentile for all residents. Good Job.

Our program sends all residents the graphs and percentile charts.

Pelivar
 
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