2007 APPIC Match Survey Results

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For those of you interested in the 2007 match statistics, here they are for your viewing pleasure.

-t

2007 APPIC Match
Survey of Internship Applicants

June 6, 2007


PART 1: SUMMARY OF SURVEY RESULTS

This e-mail contains the first of two parts of the results from the survey of applicants who were registered for the 2007 APPIC Match. Part two will be distributed in a separate e-mail.

This survey of applicants who were registered for the 2007 APPIC Match was conducted via the internet between February 26 and March 30, 2007. All 3,698 applicants who registered for the APPIC Match were sent an e-mail message (along with two reminder e-mails) about the availability of the survey at a specific internet address. A total of 2,656 internship applicants (72%) completed some or all of the survey.

Results of the survey are presented below. Missing data and "Not Applicable" responses were eliminated, and percentages do not necessarily total 100% due to rounding. Some survey items requested open-ended comments about the AAPI, APPIC Directory Online, the Match, etc. that are not reported below; however, these anonymous comments were reviewed by the appropriate APPIC Board and/or committee members who are responsible for each area.

Some of the more interesting findings from this survey include:

1. Approximately 78% of internship applicants in the 2007 Match
were female (see question 26). Questions 21-29 provide
additional demographic information.

2. Applicants submitted an average of 13.4 internship applications
(see question 12). The means reported by applicants in previous
years were:

2006 Match 12.9 applications
2005 Match 12.4 applications
2004 Match 12.4 applications
2003 Match 12.1 applications
2002 Match 13.1 applications
1999 Match 13.8 applications

3. Despite APPIC's instructions that applicants should use only
their true preferences when developing their Rank Order Lists,
5% of applicants reported doing otherwise (see question 18).

4. Eighteen percent of applicants reported completing an online
version of the AAPI for at least one site (see question 19),
up from fifteen percent in 2006.

5. The cost of participating in the selection process varied
dramatically across applicants. While the average applicant
spent $1,533 (median = $1,125, SD = $1,349), many applicants
spent considerably less while many spent considerably more
(see question 20).

6. Question 30 provides information about the ways in which
applicants may have perceived various forms of bias or
discrimination during the selection process.

7. Question 35 provides the median numbers of practicum hours
reported by applicants. APPIC recommends that applicants
interpret these numbers cautiously. Applicants should NOT
assume that the numbers of practicum hours reported are
necessary to successfully obtain an internship, as many
Training Directors have told us that they consider these
raw numbers to be one of the less important aspects of an
application.

8. Questions 37-39 provide information about applicants' time-
lines for completing their doctoral comprehensive /
qualifying / preliminary examinations and their
dissertations / doctoral research projects.

=========================================================================

1. Type of Doctoral Program

Clinical 2087 79 %
Counseling 358 13 %
School 121 5 %
Combined 66 2 %
Other 21 1 %

INTERPRETATION NOTE: A "combined" program could mean: (a) a doctoral
program that defines itself as a "combined" program (e.g., clinical-
school), or (b) an arrangement negotiated by a student in which he/she
integrates the curricula of two separate doctoral programs at his/her
school.


2. Degree Sought

Ph.D. 1534 58 %
Psy.D. 1105 42 %
Ed.D. 2 0 %
Other 11 0 %


3. Is your doctoral program APA- or CPA-accredited?

Yes 2451 93 %
No 193 7 %


4. Location of your doctoral Program

United States 2538 96%
Canada 86 3%
Other, please specify 13 0%


5. Is your program housed within a religiously-affiliated institution?

Yes 386 15 %
No 2247 85 %


6. Please select the training model of your DOCTORAL program (as you
specified on your AAPI):

Scientist-Practitioner 1339 51%
Practitioner-Scholar 949 36%
Practitioner 43 2%
Clinical Scientist 138 5%
Other, please specify 169 6%


7. Which of the following internship programs would be considered
acceptable to your doctoral program? Please check all that apply.

An accredited internship program 2609 99%

An APPIC-member internship program 1446 55%
that is NOT accredited

An internship program that is NOT 741 28%
accredited and NOT an APPIC member

An unpaid internship program 949 36%


8. Please check the item that applies to you (please respond even if
you withdrew from the Match or did not submit a Rank Order List):

This is my FIRST time 2456 93%
participating in the Match

This is my SECOND time 166 6%
participating in the Match

This is my THIRD time 12 0%
participating in the Match

Other 9 0%


9. Were you matched to an internship program by the APPIC Match?
(i.e., did your official notification from National Matching
Services [NMS] indicate that you were successfully matched to
an internship program?)

Yes 2087 79%
No 479 18%
Withdrew / No rankings submitted 82 3%

NOTE: These results suggest that unmatched applicants and
those who withdrew or didn't submit Rank Order Lists may
be underrepresented in this survey.


10a. The materials and instructions provided by National Matching
Services (NMS) were clear and comprehensive.

Strongly Agree 1564 59 %
Agree 911 34 %
Neutral 79 3 %
Disagree 41 2 %
Strongly Disagree 52 2 %


10b. The registration process with NMS went smoothly.

Strongly Agree 1802 68 %
Agree 680 26 %
Neutral 74 3 %
Disagree 31 1 %
Strongly Disagree 56 2 %


10c. The submission of my Rank Order List to NMS went smoothly.

Strongly Agree 1866 73 %
Agree 585 23 %
Neutral 39 2 %
Disagree 23 1 %
Strongly Disagree 50 2 %


10d. NMS was responsive to my questions and concerns
(choose "N/A" if you never contacted NMS).

Strongly Agree 307 56 %
Agree 158 29 %
Neutral 41 7 %
Disagree 22 4 %
Strongly Disagree 22 4 %


10e. I am satisfied with the Match result that I received from
the Matching Program.

Strongly Agree 1308 52 %
Agree 539 21 %
Neutral 165 7 %
Disagree 152 6 %
Strongly Disagree 370 15 %


10f. Overall, I am satisfied with the APPIC Matching Program.

Strongly Agree 922 35 %
Agree 844 32 %
Neutral 364 14 %
Disagree 258 10 %
Strongly Disagree 230 9 %


11a. In your judgment, did you experience any violation(s) of
APPIC Match Policies by any site?

Yes 213 8 %
No 2215 84 %
Unsure 219 8 %

NOTE: Results to this question from previous years:

YES NO UNSURE
2006 9% 83% 9%
2005 8% 85% 7%
2004 8% 86% 7%
2003 11% 77% 12%
2002 11% 78% 12%
2001 10% 76% 14%
2000 15% 74% 12%
1999 12% 77% 11%

It should be noted that Match Policy changes over the years
may have influenced responses to this item.


11b. Did you reveal any ranking information (e.g., "You are my
first choice") to any site?

Yes 17 1 %
No 2610 99 %
Unsure 19 1 %


11c. Did you experience inappropriate pressure from any site to
reveal your rankings?

Yes 75 3 %
No 2498 95 %
Unsure 66 3 %


11d. Did any site reveal ranking information to you (e.g., "You
are our first choice")?

Yes 62 2 %
No 2513 95 %
Unsure 62 2 %


12. To how many internship sites did you apply (i.e., how many
separate internship applications did you submit)?

Mean = 13.4 Median = 13
SD = 5.4 Mode = 15


13. Considering ALL of the sites to which you applied, how many
did NOT notify you of your interview status (e.g., received an
interview, no longer under consideration) on or before the
"interview notification date" listed in their APPIC Directory
information? For example, if all of your sites notified you
in a timely manner, choose "0".

Mean = 1.1 Median = 0
SD = 2.4 Mode = 0

NOTE: A total of 59.0% of applicants reported being properly
notified of their interview status by all sites to which
they applied.


14. How many interviews (telephone or on-site) were you offered?

Mean = 6.3 Median = 6
SD = 3.6 Mode = 6


15. How many programs did you include on your final Rank Order List
(i.e., how many program code numbers were listed)?

Mean = 6.9 Median = 6
SD = 4.5 Mode = 6

NOTE: Use caution when comparing these numbers with the results
from questions 12-14, since some sites used multiple program code
numbers.


16. What was the rank of the program that you were matched to?

(Please see the 2007 APPIC Match Statistics for this information)


17. Did you participate in the Match with another person as a
"couple" (i.e., by using special Match procedures to submit
pairs of rankings)?

Yes 33 1 %
No 2613 99 %


18. For the Match, applicants were instructed to construct their
Rank Order Lists based only on their TRUE preferences, and to
ignore such things as how they thought they were ranked by
programs, programs' popularity, number of positions offered
by programs, etc.

Did the Rank Order List that you submitted to NMS reflect ONLY
your TRUE preferences? (Please skip this question if you did
not submit a Rank Order List)

Yes 2454 95 %
No 127 5 %


19. How many sites asked you to complete an online version of the AAPI
(APPIC Application for Psychology Internships) via the internet?

For example, a site might have asked you to enter some information
from your AAPI into an online form. (Please do NOT include times
in which you sent your AAPI to a site as an e-mail attachment)

None 2155 82 %
1 site 290 11 %
2 sites 50 2 %
3 sites 24 1 %
4 sites 15 1 %
5 to 9 sites 28 1 %
10 sites or more 69 3 %


20. APPIC would like to know how much money you spent on various
aspects of the application and selection process.

APPLICATION COSTS involve preparing and submitting applications
to sites, and may include such items as obtaining official copies
of transcripts, printing, copying, regular and overnight mailing,
etc. TRAVEL COSTS may include such items as air or train fare,
car rental, taxi, gasoline, hotel, etc. OTHER COSTS may include
such items as your Match registration fee ($110 or $140),
clothing costs, phone calls, etc.

Please enter your BEST ESTIMATE of the dollar amount spent, digits
only, in each of the following areas (e.g., one hundred dollars
would be entered as simply 100):

TOTAL COSTS: Mean = $1533 SD = 1349
Median = $1125 Mode = 1100

APPLICATION COSTS: Mean = $ 218 SD = 179
Median = $ 200 Mode = 200

TRAVEL COSTS: Mean = $1149 SD = 1192
Median = $ 800 Mode = 2000

OTHER COSTS: Mean = $ 284 SD = 249
Median = $ 200 Mode = 200


NOTE: Mean total cost increased by $25 (1.7%) from 2006 to 2007
while median total cost increased by $5 (0.4%).



DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION

21. What is your age?

Mean = 30.4 Median = 28
SD = 6.1 Mode = 27
Range = 22 to 61 N = 2654


22. How many dependent children are living with you?

None 2158 83%
1 250 10%
2 131 5%
3 38 1%
4 9 0%
5 2 0%


23. How many adult dependents are currently living with you, or for
whom you are responsible? (DO include other relatives or
individuals, i.e., mother, father, grandparent, ward. DO NOT
include an able-bodied spouse/partner).

None 2459 96%
1 90 4%
2 10 0%
3 2 0%
4 2 0%


24. What is your current marital or relationship status?

Married / Partnered 1460 56 %
Not Married or Partnered 1129 44 %


25. What is your country of citizenship?

U.S. 2354 91 %
Canada 121 5 %
Other 105 4 %


26. What is your gender?

Male 558 22 %
Female 2028 78 %
Other (e.g., trans, intersex) 2 0 %


27. What is your racial/ethnic identification? (Check all
that apply)

African-American / Black 174 7 %
American Indian / Alaskan Native 30 1 %
Asian / Pacific Islander 179 7 %
Hispanic / Latino 184 7 %
White (Non-Hispanic) 2017 78 %
Other 97 4 %


28. What is your sexual orientation?

Heterosexual 2394 93 %
Gay Male 47 2 %
Lesbian 57 2 %
Bisexual 77 3 %
Other 5 0 %


29. What types of disability(ies) do you have? Check all
that apply. (If none, please skip this question)

Blind / Visually Impaired 7 0 %
Deaf / Hard of Hearing 9 0 %
Physical / Orthopedic Disability 17 1 %
Learning Disability / Cognitive 34 1 %
Chronic Health Condition 70 3 %
Mental Illness 34 1 %
Other 17 1 %

NOTE: Percentages were calculated based on the entire
subject pool of 2,656 applicants.


30. If you believe that you have experienced some form of
discrimination during the selection process, please designate
the category(ies) for which this occurred (if you did not
experience discrimination, please skip this question).

NOTE: Results from this item should be interpreted cautiously.
In particular, some internship programs specifically prefer
applicants from certain types of doctoral programs or who
are pursuing certain types of degrees. Such preferences
are not necessarily "discrimination," even though it may have
been experienced as such by the applicant.


PERCEIVED DISCRIMINATION BASED ON SUB-GROUPS OF RESPONDENTS
(see below for interpretation note):

Perceived discrimination based on AGE:
Age <40: 43 of 2367 (2%)
Age >=40: 67 of 215 (31%)

(INTERPRETATION NOTE: 2% of respondents under age
40 and 31% of respondents ages 40 and over
reported perceiving discrimination based on age)

Perceived discrimination based on GENDER:
Male: 21 of 558 (4%)
Female: 51 of 2028 (3%)

Perceived discrimination based on RACE/ETHNICITY:
White (non-hispanic): 59 of 1866 (3%)
Non-white: 56 of 598 (9%)

Perceived discrimination based on SEXUAL ORIENTATION:
Heterosexual: 5 of 2394 (0%)
Non-Heterosexual: 14 of 181 (8%)

Perceived discrimination based on MARITAL STATUS:
Married or partnered: 29 of 1460 (2%)
Not married/partnered: 5 of 1129 (0%)

Perceived discrimination based on PARENTAL STATUS:
One or more dependent
children at home: 65 of 430 (15%)

No children at home: 5 of 2158 (0%)

Perceived discrimination based on TYPE OF DOCTORAL PROGRAM:
Clinical: 76 of 2087 (4%)
Counseling: 76 of 358 (21%)
School: 34 of 121 (28%)
Combined: 15 of 66 (23%)

Perceived discrimination based on TYPE OF DEGREE:
Ph.D. 13 of 1534 (1%)
Psy.D. 299 of 1105 (27%)


31. (Open-Ended Question)


32. Did you have any geographic restrictions on your internship
search that EITHER (a) reduced the number of sites to which
you applied, OR (b) kept you from applying to sites in which
you were interested?

Yes 1456 56 %
No 1122 44 %


33. IF YOU ANSWERED "YES" TO QUESTION 31: Which of the following
best describes the reason for your geographic restriction:

I could only apply in a particular 627 43 %
geographic area because of
significant family, financial,
and/or health considerations

I chose to restrict my search to 799 54 %
particular geographic area(s) due
to personal preference (e.g.,
preferred place to live, to be
near family or friends)

Other 49 3 %


34. IF YOU ANSWERED "YES" TO QUESTION 31: Which of the following
best describes your geographic restriction?

A single city or town, or within 482 33 %
a 100-mile radius of a city/town

State / Province 194 13 %

Region of the Country 619 42 %

Other 171 12 %



QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR AAPI

35. We would like to know the TOTAL NUMBER OF PRACTICUM HOURS that
you reported on your AAPI. This includes ALL of your practicum
hours, including doctoral hours and hours accrued in a terminal
masters program.

In Section 3, Item 4, "Summary of Practicum Hours," please look
in the right-most column, TOTAL COMPLETED HOURS, and enter the
hours listed for:

a. Intervention and Assessment: Median = 766 n = 2025

b. Support: Median = 699 n = 2014

c. Supervision: Median = 357 n = 2003

APPIC advises applicants to interpret these numbers cautiously.
Applicants should NOT assume that the numbers of practicum hours
listed above are necessary to successfully obtain an internship,
as many Training Directors have told us that they consider these
numbers to be one of the less important aspects of an application.


36. For each of the following populations, what was the total number
of supervised integrated psychological reports that you reported
on your AAPI? This information can be found in Section 4 of the
AAPI ("Test Administration"), item 3.

a. Adults Median = 8 n = 1803

b. Children / Adolescents Median = 8 n = 1551

NOTE: Respondents who designated completing zero reports or
left the item blank were excluded from the calculation (please
note that this is a change from last year's method of calculating
the results for this item). Only medians were reported, as means
and standard deviations were greatly affected by a few applicants
who reported an extremely large number of integrated reports.


37. Please designate when you completed (or intend to complete) your
doctoral comprehensive / qualifying / preliminary examinations:

Not applicable 59 3%
Prior to submitting internship applications 2061 91%
Prior to attending internship interviews 40 2%
Prior to the ranking deadline for the Match 19 1%
Prior to the beginning of internship 80 4%
During the internship year 6 0%
After the completion of internship 7 0%


38. Please designate when your proposal for your dissertation or
doctoral research project was or will be approved:

Not applicable 24 1%
Prior to submitting internship applications 1550 68%
Prior to attending internship interviews 157 7%
Prior to the ranking deadline for the Match 63 3%
Prior to the beginning of internship 441 19%
During the internship year 34 1%
After the completion of internship 6 0%


39. Please designate when the final defense for your dissertation
or doctoral research project occurred or will occur:

Not applicable 75 3%
Prior to submitting internship applications 82 4%
Prior to attending internship interviews 24 1%
Prior to the ranking deadline for the Match 6 0%
Prior to the beginning of internship 1030 45%
During the internship year 944 41%
After the completion of internship 119 5%


40. How many publications were listed on the Curriculum Vitae that
you submitted to internship sites? (Please estimate if you don't
know the exact number).

None 1031 46 %
1 343 15 %
2 248 11 %
3 193 9 %
4 144 6 %
5 to 9 248 11 %
10 to 14 45 2 %
15 to 19 6 0 %
20 or more 6 0 %


41. How many presentations were listed on the Curriculum Vitae that
you submitted to internship sites? (Please estimate if you don't
know the exact number).

None 550 24 %
1 197 9 %
2 232 10 %
3 184 8 %
4 159 7 %
5 to 9 519 23 %
10 to 14 232 10 %
15 to 19 108 5 %
20 or more 91 4 %
 
Part 2


2007 APPIC Match
Survey of Internship Applicants

June 6, 2007


PART 2: SUMMARY OF MATCH RATES BY APPLICANT
AND PROGRAM CHARACTERISTICS​


This e-mail contains the second of two parts of the results from the survey of applicants who were registered for the 2007 APPIC Match, and provides match rates across a variety of applicant and program characteristics.

PLEASE NOTE the following important notes about these results:

1. Many of these characteristics are likely to be correlated
(e.g., having children, being older, geographic restrictions).
One should not assume cause-and-effect relationships based on
this data.

2. No significance testing has been performed on this data. Thus,
one should not assume that differences are significant.

3. Data with small n's have not had the match rate calculated.

4. Applicants who withdrew from the Match or did not submit a
Rank Order List were counted as "unmatched."

5. Match rates are calculated based on the information provided
by respondents to the survey.

All 3,698 applicants who registered for the APPIC Match were sent an e-mail message (along with two reminder e-mails) about the availability of the survey at a specific internet address. A total of 2,656 internship applicants (72%) completed some or all of the survey.



1. Type of Doctoral Program

Clinical Match rate = 79% n = 2082
Counseling Match rate = 78% n = 357
School Match rate = 84% n = 121
Combined Match rate = 80% n = 66


2. Degree sought:

Ph.D. Match rate = 83% n = 1531
Psy.D. Match rate = 73% n = 1102
Ed.D. n = 2


3. Accreditation (APA or CPA) status of doctoral program:

Accredited Match rate = 80% n = 2446
Not Accredited Match rate = 64% n = 192


4. Location of doctoral program:

United States Match rate = 79% n = 2532
Canada Match rate = 78% n = 86
Other Match rate = 39% n = 13


5. Doctoral program housed within a religiously-affiliated
institution?

Yes Match rate = 78% n = 302
No Match rate = 79% n = 1768


6. Model of doctoral program:

Scientist-Practitioner Match rate = 83% n = 1335
Practitioner-Scholar Match rate = 73% n = 948
Practitioner Match rate = 63% n = 43
Clinical Scientist Match rate = 87% n = 138
Other n = 168


7. Number of times participating in Match:

First time in Match Match rate = 80% n = 2451
Second time in Match Match rate = 72% n = 166
Third time in Match Match rate = 67% n = 12


8. Age of applicant:

Ages 21-25 Match rate = 76% n = 249
Ages 26-30 Match rate = 82% n = 1509
Ages 31-35 Match rate = 80% n = 462
Ages 36-40 Match rate = 70% n = 161
Ages 41-45 Match rate = 71% n = 75
Ages 46-50 Match rate = 73% n = 63
Ages 51-55 Match rate = 51% n = 41
Ages 56-60 Match rate = 57% n = 14
Ages 61+ n = 1

NOTE: These results should be interpreted
cautiously. There are many variables that may be
correlated with age (e.g., geographic restrictions,
having children, number of sites to which one applied).
Thus, the differences observed above, if significant,
may be due to factors other than (or in addition to)
age.


9. Number of dependent children living with applicant:

None Match rate = 81% n = 2154
One or more Match rate = 73% n = 427


10. Number of adult dependents living with applicant:

None Match rate = 80% n = 2452
One or more Match rate = 69% n = 104


11. Current marital or relationship status:

Married/partnered Match rate = 79% n = 1454
Not married/partnered Match rate = 80% n = 1128


12. Country of citizenship:

United States Match rate = 80% n = 2348
Canada Match rate = 78% n = 120
Other Match rate = 74% n = 105


13. Gender:

Male Match rate = 81% n = 555
Female Match rate = 79% n = 2024
Other n = 2


14. Racial/Ethnic identification:

African-American/Black Match rate = 82% n = 174
American Indian/Alaskan Match rate = 83% n = 30
Native
Asian/Pacific Islander Match rate = 84% n = 179
Hispanic/Latino Match rate = 80% n = 183
White (non-hispanic) Match rate = 79% n = 2011
Other Match rate = 80% n = 97


15. Sexual Orientation:

Heterosexual Match rate = 79% n = 2387
Gay Male Match rate = 85% n = 47
Lesbian Match rate = 81% n = 46
Bisexual Match rate = 78% n = 77


16. Disability:

Disability reported Match rate = 71% n = 166
No disability reported Match rate = 79% n = 2482

NOTE: Applicants who skipped this question were assumed
to have no disability.


17. Geographic restriction on internship search:

None Match rate = 82% n = 1116
Due to significant family, Match rate = 71% n = 626
financial, and/or health
considerations
Due to personal preference Match rate = 83% n = 799


18. Completion of comprehensive / qualifying / preliminary
exams:

Prior to submitting Match rate = 80% n = 2055
internship applications
Later Match rate = 80% n = 152


19. Completion of proposal for dissertation or research
project:

Prior to submitting Match rate = 82% n = 1546
internship applications
Later Match rate = 77% n = 699


20. Number of publications listed on vita:

Zero Match rate = 74% n = 1027
One or more Match rate = 85% n = 1231


21. Number of presentations listed on vita:

Zero Match rate = 72% n = 547
One Match rate = 77% n = 197
Two Match rate = 78% n = 182
Three or more Match rate = 85% n = 1289

********************************************************************
 
I realize there's no way its of any statistical or practical significance, but I found it amusing that people who restricted their applications based on location preference did BETTER than those who did not have any restrictions.

Its about what I was expecting overall. I'm not terribly surprised by the religious affiliated placements since at least out here, there are TONS of hospitals that are "religiously affiliated" on paper but have no practical religious affiliation. Hell, the one I work at is a "Catholic" hospital. In practicality it means absolutely nothing. I'm pretty sure most of my department is atheists. There's no religious-anything going on, save for the fact that we have a chapel, and they announce the occasional mass over the PA system. It has no bearing whatsoever on patient care or any of the day-to-day runnings of the hospital that I can tell.

The only thing I'm REALLY in shock over is that 46% of people did not have a publication prior to internship application. 24% without even a presentation? I had one as a JUNIOR! Am I reading that wrong? ....how....what...huh?

I think I'm qualified for graduate school....but I'm CLEARLY not a top-notch candidate given that only 1 school accepted me...but its just due to some crappy luck and poor motivation on my part to publish research that isn't "really" what I want to do, that I don't have at LEAST one publication already, if not 2-3. How on earth does one get through a minimum 3.5 years of grad school pre-internship application (substantially more for many of us...) without a pub?

I mean, I know I'm more research-focused than most, but that sounds INSANE to me. What on earth are these labs doing? Am I really reading that number correctly?
 
Maybe something to do with 42% of this sample seeking a PsyD? Or maybe grad school getting that much harder to get into now than 4+ years ago (dont know how much harder it could really be though)? I was surprised by the publication stat also.
 
Maybe something to do with 42% of this sample seeking a PsyD? Or maybe grad school getting that much harder to get into now than 4+ years ago (dont know how much harder it could really be though)? I was surprised by the publication stat also.

I was thinking the same thing. I'd like to see the PsyD/publication cross data. I'd also like to see data on students going to well-funded internships vs poorly-funded ones vs unfunded ones.
 
Its about what I was expecting overall. I'm not terribly surprised by the religious affiliated placements since at least out here, there are TONS of hospitals that are "religiously affiliated" on paper but have no practical religious affiliation.

I don't want to get this OT, but I remember reading a story (and possible lawsuit) about a girl who went for RU486 after being raped, and the hospital where she was admitted would not administer it, based on their religious affiliation.

Maybe something to do with 42% of this sample seeking a PsyD? Or maybe grad school getting that much harder to get into now than 4+ years ago (dont know how much harder it could really be though)? I was surprised by the publication stat also.

That is surprising.

Plenty/Most of PsyD publish, but I guess there are some who don't. Do Counseling and School programs publish as frequently as a research oriented PhD?

-t
 
I don't want to get this OT, but I remember reading a story (and possible lawsuit) about a girl who went for RU486 after being raped, and the hospital where she was admitted would not administer it, based on their religious affiliation.



That is surprising.

Plenty/Most of PsyD publish, but I guess there are some who don't. Do Counseling and School programs publish as frequently as a research oriented PhD?

-t

Regarding Counseling and School...from my (very) limited experiences these are somewhat less research-focused than clinical PhDs, but not by THAT much. Furthermore they represent too small a percentage of the sample to entirely explain away those numbers. And to think I was worried I was applying to grad school without a publication yet!

I agree some breakdown between PsyD and PhD would be helpful. Not to start another one of those debates, but the reality is that PsyDs and PhDs often have different career goals. That might make a difference.

Regardless, I still can't wrap my brain around the idea of being in school that long and not even getting ONE publication for your CV. People include articles currently under review on their CV sometimes, correct? I wonder if those counted in the question...if so I find it even more surprising.

As for the hush hush OT discussion...you are correct about that, I read about it as well...I'm at a cancer center so I'd bet our OB/GYN has bigger fish to fry than BCP refills, and we never get rape-cases anyways since we have another hospital next door that handles the bulk of our non-cancer stuff.

So I guess it CAN make a difference in reproductive/obgyn care, but I guess in the spectrum of what hospitals do, I see those as isolated (but still important! ) incidents that by themselves aren't enough for me to truly feel it has a major impact on patient care. My point was just that it isn't like all our docs are faith healers and there's 500 people praying in the hallways😉 I worked in a non-religious hospital as well, and truth be told, there's really no way to tell the difference until you hear the PA.

Clearcolor - would you mind clarifying what you mean about "grad school being harder to get into now"? I mean, I understand that its getting harder, just not sure how that means that fewer people would be publishing as grad students.
 
Yeah, SDNers have a warped view about needing pubs to get into grad school. Clearly, not everyone who finishes grad school has them. Some of those were Psy.Ds., but given that 61% had 1 or less pubs and only 42% were PsyDs, that shows that a lot of people are graduating with few or no pubs. Remember that pubs take long time and a lot of tenacity to get published-- those who are more practice oriented aren't really going to go for them. Although, obviously if you want an academic career, you'll need to do a little better than that. Although I do know a few people who had ZERO pubs in grad school (except maybe their dissertations were eventually published, a year or two after they graduated) and still went on to have successful academic positions.

And I really don't think it's gotten any harder in the past four years (as someone who got dinged for the first time four years ago).

I'm glad that they made the little post to not get freaked out about the number of hours, because training directors say it's not the most important thing...I think the hours race has gotten a little absurd.

Is anyone else applying for internship in the next couple years? I'll probably apply in 2008-09. I could theoretically apply next year (I'm a rising fourth year) but I think I'll stick around and get more pubs and hopefully get my NRSA funded.
 
.....Clearcolor - would you mind clarifying what you mean about "grad school being harder to get into now"? I mean, I understand that its getting harder, just not sure how that means that fewer people would be publishing as grad students.

It didn't actually make any sense.
 
"5. The cost of participating in the selection process varied
dramatically across applicants. While the average applicant
spent $1,533 (median = $1,125, SD = $1,349), many applicants
spent considerably less while many spent considerably more
(see question 20)."

What goes into this cost? This is more expensive than applying to graduate school! How is a graduate student supposed to pay for this?
 
It breaks it down actually. Applications are $200ish, but travel costs are over $1000.

I think this is due to the fact that ALL interviews (as far as I know) are in-person, most people I know interviewed at more places for internship than they did for grad school, and you're generally more on-your-own for housing instead of hosted by current grad students.

Haven't gone through it myself though so who knows - that was just the impression I got from seeing the current grad students go through the process.
 
I agree some breakdown between PsyD and PhD would be helpful. Not to start another one of those debates, but the reality is that PsyDs and PhDs often have different career goals. That might make a difference.

I agree. If most of that low pub rate is because of PsyDs not publishing, it's not a huge deal--if I were primarily interested in clinical work, I wouldn't care nearly so much as I do about publishing. But if there are a bunch of PhD programs graduating people without ANY publications... what are these places doing?
 
The average number of publications by a clinical psychologist is zero (0).

Nowadays, the number of PsyDs and PhDs from professional schools, combined with PhDs from programs that have equal clinical emphasis, graduate many times more students than all the prestigious "research-emphasis" programs that take a handful of students a year.

Ergo, 110 students (which is how big some PsyD classes are nowadays) just dwarfs the old-school 4-10 students class sizes, and brings the publication average down to nearly nill.
 
I was just a little bit surprised by the stats regarding match rates for those with and without a restricted location preference. I will only be starting grad school this year, but anything I've heard about not matching is usually said to be due to restricting a geographic location. At first, that makes sense, but then when you see the stats and really think about it, does it have to do with applying within a limited geographic area, or is it really due to restricting the number of sites you apply to, which is likely if your preferred area doesn't have many sites?
 
Ergo, 110 students (which is how big some PsyD classes are nowadays) just dwarfs the old-school 4-10 students class sizes, and brings the publication average down to nearly nill.

That is assuming that PsyD's don't publish. They will most likely publish less than a research oriented school, but I think making a blanket statement that PsyD don't publish is a misnomer.

-t
 
You gotta be kidding me. I'm sure some PsyD's publish, but I'd wager that the average PsyD has zero publications in any real peer-reviewed journal. I'm not saying its a bad thing, they're obviously there to be clinically-focused, but let's not pretend that PsyDs, on average, are churning out the pubs. I'd like to see evidence to the contrary.
 
Adding briefly to the PhD vs PsyD discussion, I found it interesting that over a quarter of the people receiving a PsyD thought that they were discriminated against during the match process, presumably for not choosing a PhD:
"Perceived discrimination based on TYPE OF DEGREE:
Ph.D. 13 of 1534 (1%)
Psy.D. 299 of 1105 (27%)"
 
The average number of publications by a clinical psychologist is zero (0).

Do you have a source for this? I've heard that the MODE (ie. most common) number of publications for clinical psychologists was 0, but with a limit at 0 and many researchers publishing upwards of 50 times, I'm surprised the average isn't at least 0.5-ish. Are there really THAT many people who aren't publishing at all? If so... wow.
 
Do you have a source for this? I've heard that the MODE (ie. most common) number of publications for clinical psychologists was 0, but with a limit at 0 and many researchers publishing upwards of 50 times, I'm surprised the average isn't at least 0.5-ish. Are there really THAT many people who aren't publishing at all? If so... wow.

It's up in the original post (Ctrl + F "publications" and you'll find it). I figured it out (sort of, considering the last one says "20 and up", I just used 20) and got the average to be 0.09ish. That's pretty much zero.
 
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