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Has anyone ever decided or plan to take a second look at a program? I am debating whether it is worth it since I am not done interviewing until the last week of January.
2nd looks?
- Thread starter drvlad2004
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I was planning on doing one at a certain program, but I contacted their residency coordinator and was forwarded an email from the program director saying that they don't offer them. Which was weird, since the chief resident that toured with us was open to us coming and spending a day on inpatient.. 😕
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I'm kind of in the same situation as you drvlad, my last interview is on 1/29 and my next rotation/course starts in february. I have not decided where my top choice programs are as of now so it's kind of difficult to make plans for a 2nd look. I'm definitely going to write the top choices to let them know they are my top choices but i think some programs frown upon actually telling them you'll rank them first. Some PDs told us that 2nd looks will not influence their decisions or rank list and that they would actually frown upon behavior and writing that goes against the spirit of the match. But then I had another PD tell me that if I would just write him a letter in late January or early February, that it would very much influence his decision (he said he wanted people who wanted to be there...) Whichever way, I think I'm going to stick with my principles about what I think is right regardless of what other applicants do or PDs say.
I heard that in Ortho, PDs don't like to go past a certain number on their rank list so they makes sure that all the applicants they plan to rank (and more) will rank them #1. There's a lot of games and manipulation in that match process and others from what i hear and I would not want the PM&R match process to turn that bad. So far, I've mostly enjoyed the PM&R match process - nice and fun applicants, pleasant interviews, etc.... I really don't want to "dirty things up" by playing too many games. Maybe I'm naive. Anyone else have any opinion?
I heard that in Ortho, PDs don't like to go past a certain number on their rank list so they makes sure that all the applicants they plan to rank (and more) will rank them #1. There's a lot of games and manipulation in that match process and others from what i hear and I would not want the PM&R match process to turn that bad. So far, I've mostly enjoyed the PM&R match process - nice and fun applicants, pleasant interviews, etc.... I really don't want to "dirty things up" by playing too many games. Maybe I'm naive. Anyone else have any opinion?
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I thought that it was specifically prohibited for a program to tell you exactly where they would rank you, and vice versa. However, you could use generic terms like 'Highly interested', 'Would fit well here', etc. etc. I think they actually use those words on the NRMP website.
I didn't think that a 2nd look was trying to improve your ranking on a program's rank list....I was thinking more along the lines of trying to get an idea of what a typical day was like at this particular institution, since I have never rotated there and would like to find out more...
😕 Dunno...it was a pretty terse letter I got, and it's kinda funny, but it's negatively effecting my perception of them 😕
I didn't think that a 2nd look was trying to improve your ranking on a program's rank list....I was thinking more along the lines of trying to get an idea of what a typical day was like at this particular institution, since I have never rotated there and would like to find out more...
😕 Dunno...it was a pretty terse letter I got, and it's kinda funny, but it's negatively effecting my perception of them 😕
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I agree that 2nd looks are not intended as an attempt to improve your ranking. It is more to see what goes on in a typical day at the program. I have known some people who went to a program for a second look and still did not match there. I'm sure programs like RIC and Kessler always get people who come for second looks.
Axm397, I would recommend reading the match agreement before writing to your top choice programs. It's been a while since I read the agreement, but I recall that you cannot specifically tell the program where you will rank them and vice versa.
Many residents/residency coordinators/faculty seem to prefer being e-mailed about your interest in the program rather than coming again for a second look. This may influence the ranklist. There was one interviewer who told me that I can contact her if I ever want to spend the day following her or any of the attendings. I guess that other programs may do the same. Personally, I have only e-mailed some programs about questions I forgot to ask during the interview and that's about it. The interview process has been a very pleasant experience. There are many programs (out of 13 interviews) that I am more than happy to train at. However, I am still undecided what my #1 choice will be until I complete interviewing this month. The traveling has been expensive but still well worth it. If I had much fewer interview offers, then I would probably do couple 2nd looks.
To the PM&R residents or upcoming PGY2s on this forum, did any of you guys take a 2nd look at a program?
Axm397, I would recommend reading the match agreement before writing to your top choice programs. It's been a while since I read the agreement, but I recall that you cannot specifically tell the program where you will rank them and vice versa.
Many residents/residency coordinators/faculty seem to prefer being e-mailed about your interest in the program rather than coming again for a second look. This may influence the ranklist. There was one interviewer who told me that I can contact her if I ever want to spend the day following her or any of the attendings. I guess that other programs may do the same. Personally, I have only e-mailed some programs about questions I forgot to ask during the interview and that's about it. The interview process has been a very pleasant experience. There are many programs (out of 13 interviews) that I am more than happy to train at. However, I am still undecided what my #1 choice will be until I complete interviewing this month. The traveling has been expensive but still well worth it. If I had much fewer interview offers, then I would probably do couple 2nd looks.
To the PM&R residents or upcoming PGY2s on this forum, did any of you guys take a 2nd look at a program?
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I know that technically, you're not supposed to tell them that but I had heard on the trail and from residents that people do that. I don't plan on doing so. It can definitely back fire.
One story I heard was someone (yrs ago) telling a PD that program X was her first choice and that she would do anything to get into that program. The PD liked that person, and really tried to help her. Ultimately, that person did not match at program X, which really upset the PD. The PD said it would have been fine if she had said that program x was "one of her top choices" but the fact that she said it was her first choice and practically begged the PD yet did not follow through left a bad taste in all involved. Now, that person is in position to look for job in the area around program x and tried to kiss butt of PD to help with job search. That PD is definitely not going to help her.
I guess the bottom line is not to do anything unethical or risk burning bridges because medicine is a small world AND PM&R is even smaller. You never know. That's why it's best to try to treat everyone with respect - even at programs you're not interested in. (One applicant I know left early from an interview in the middle of the tour because he decided he was not interested in that program any more. That's probably not the best thing to do.)
Anyways, thanks for all the advice everyone. I am going to stick to my principles because that's what got me this far. No fake butt kissing for me.
😎
One story I heard was someone (yrs ago) telling a PD that program X was her first choice and that she would do anything to get into that program. The PD liked that person, and really tried to help her. Ultimately, that person did not match at program X, which really upset the PD. The PD said it would have been fine if she had said that program x was "one of her top choices" but the fact that she said it was her first choice and practically begged the PD yet did not follow through left a bad taste in all involved. Now, that person is in position to look for job in the area around program x and tried to kiss butt of PD to help with job search. That PD is definitely not going to help her.
I guess the bottom line is not to do anything unethical or risk burning bridges because medicine is a small world AND PM&R is even smaller. You never know. That's why it's best to try to treat everyone with respect - even at programs you're not interested in. (One applicant I know left early from an interview in the middle of the tour because he decided he was not interested in that program any more. That's probably not the best thing to do.)
Anyways, thanks for all the advice everyone. I am going to stick to my principles because that's what got me this far. No fake butt kissing for me.
😎
