3.0 cGPA, 2.85 sGPA, 25 MCAT. Planning gap year. Help?

[buckeyes15]

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So I am graduating undergrad from my undergrad institution this May. I applied last year but a late rec letter from a professor screwed me a bit and I had a rough semester for personal reasons so now I have to rebound. I have done overall well in my classwork except for mainly chemistries (C's in Calc, microbe, GenChem2, both Ochems, and most likely biochem). I am planning on applying DO and possibly a few MD, but not for a bit. During this coming summer, I am going to get certified to be a CNA and work in that field while concurrently taking the classes I need to retake (6 overall). Would it be better to just focus on my chemistries and microbe while working the first year (before I re-apply), then take calc and a stats class over the application cycle? I did not miss B's by very much in most of these classes. Any and all advice would be appreciated. I visited schools the first time around and I really want to go to DMU or CCOM, and any MD schools in Chicago/Iowa if possible, but open to applying elsewhere also. Thank you very much.

 

[shisong]

you need to take few more courses ( either retake or take more classes ) to raise your science GPA.

If you want to attempt MD, it would be nice to retake the MCAT and attempt to score 30s to make up for your lower tier GPA.

In addition, it is good to get clinical exposure too 🙂 gl!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You're probably going to need to retake all 6 of those courses you did poorly in to bump your gpa up to a reasonable range. Likewise your mcat is too low in conjunction with your classes and also too low in general for MD or DMU or CCOM.

 

[buckeyes15]

I plan on retaking everything, and with AACOMAS replacement, getting A's in them will get me to about 3.45 cGPA, 3.4 sGPA

 

[buckeyes15]

And I took the first MCAT without having taken Ochem 2, or physics 2 (just needed to based on timing). So I do feel like having seen the material before I can make a decent jump in the MCAT scores

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

So as you obviously know, get the retakes and a new MCAT and then we can talk. No one can really have a strong idea of how you will do application-wise without that stuff.

As for your gap year, I would strongly suggest doing scribe instead of CNA. Several reasons why: chances are that as a CNA you will end up in a nursing home. Most hospitals require at LEAST (so not even to be competitive, just bare minimum) 1 year of experience to work there. That experience will come from nursing homes. Now granted I learned some stuff from the nursing home, and I am generally altruistic in nature, but basically nursing homes suck. The shifts are usually bad, many of the people working there are very malignant, overall its just awful. With the scribe you have about the same amount of training but you work for docs. So talk about better experience... one of the main goals on your application is to suggest that you know what the healthcare system looks like and what physicians do. You will get no better idea of an idea of that than by being a scribe. You will also pick up A LOT more medicine-type vocab and tips going the scribe route. The CNA route is obviously nursing where your concern is helping and serving people but not introducing/learning medicine. So yea, just some food for thought. If I could go back I would not have done CNA and would have for sure gone the scribe route. Also I believe the scribe training is free whereas the CNA usually costs money and more time.

And yea I would take the sciences over the first gap year, it would be better to have those updated at your time of applying than the math courses. Most DO schools do not even have hard requirements on math. Also by doing the science classes first your sGPA will be improved, whereas the math classes have no bearing on your science GPA.

 

[buckeyes15]

^Perfect reply thank you. I will look into the scribe route. Any other advice is greatly appreciated. I'll get there eventually is what I'm always told

 

[evooo8]

Yes, definitely try to get work as a scribe. One of the schools I interviewed at told me it is one of the best experiences you can have for your application. That was 1 of 30+ DO schools though.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

So I am graduating undergrad from my undergrad institution this May. I applied last year but a late rec letter from a professor screwed me a bit and I had a rough semester for personal reasons so now I have to rebound. I have done overall well in my classwork except for mainly chemistries (C's in Calc, microbe, GenChem2, both Ochems, and most likely biochem). I am planning on applying DO and possibly a few MD, but not for a bit. During this coming summer, I am going to get certified to be a CNA and work in that field while concurrently taking the classes I need to retake (6 overall). Would it be better to just focus on my chemistries and microbe while working the first year (before I re-apply), then take calc and a stats class over the application cycle? I did not miss B's by very much in most of these classes. Any and all advice would be appreciated. I visited schools the first time around and I really want to go to DMU or CCOM, and any MD schools in Chicago/Iowa if possible, but open to applying elsewhere also. Thank you very much.

You need a custom Postbacc. Forget about MD in the states, with that GPA, you will need years to make yourself competitive (like a PHD with a 4.0). DO is the way for you (and not DMU or CCOM unless that MCAT goes way up). Retake anything C and below, and get straight A's. DO's allow replacement so this will work wonders for your GPA. MD only averages, so it will still keep you below the 10th percentile of almost all schools.

Scribe is better than CNA for anyone who wants to be a physician. Plus it is a great way to get the ever difficult DO LOR. CNA's don't work with physicians enough to really get a good idea what is going on in general, whereas a scribe works side by side all day. Its much better.

 

[Dr Turkelton]

I was in a very similar situation to you 2 years ago and am starting at an MD school this fall. Most important advice I can give to you is make sure you've completely figured out why you keep getting C's and prove to yourself that you are able to perform at a very high academic level. For me, this included getting close to a 4.0 at an MD SMP as well as getting a 38 on the MCAT. Without both of these I definitely would not have had a successful cycle.

My advice to you:

1. Apply to SMP's and postbacc's now. Will be very difficult to get into a strong program with that MCAT, one option is to spend a year in an informal postbacc then take the MCAT and apply to SMP's with good linkages.
2. No matter where you take classes, you need to treat anything less than an A as failure, this is do or die time.
3. Summer after you do your postbacc set aside 2 months and absolutely ace the MCAT. 35+ is what you'll need if you want a shot at MD, 30+ should be good for DO
4. Apply broadly. I applied to 40 MD schools and 10 DO.
5. Start some unique EC's now and keep doing them until you apply. When I finished undergrad my EC's were garbage. Afterwards I got my EMT certification and started riding on a rescue squad and volunteering at a free clinic. Also found an afterschool center and spent one afternoon a week helping kids with their homework. I think the med schools liked seeing that I was able to keep these things up during my SMP.

Regardless of the path you take make sure you are 100% certain that you have figured out how to effectively study and that your academic and your personal troubles are behind you. If this means spending a year sorting out your personal issues and getting yourself into that academic mindset then so be it. You'll be walking on very thin ice until you get your first acceptance, don't retake any classes until you know without a doubt you'll be getting an A.

Hope that helped! Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I was in a very similar situation to you 2 years ago and am starting at an MD school this fall. Most important advice I can give to you is make sure you've completely figured out why you keep getting C's and prove to yourself that you are able to perform at a very high academic level. For me, this included getting close to a 4.0 at an MD SMP as well as getting a 38 on the MCAT. Without both of these I definitely would not have had a successful cycle.

My advice to you:

1. Apply to SMP's and postbacc's now. Will be very difficult to get into a strong program with that MCAT, one option is to spend a year in an informal postbacc then take the MCAT and apply to SMP's with good linkages.
2. No matter where you take classes, you need to treat anything less than an A as failure, this is do or die time.
3. Summer after you do your postbacc set aside 2 months and absolutely ace the MCAT. 35+ is what you'll need if you want a shot at MD, 30+ should be good for DO
4. Apply broadly. I applied to 40 MD schools and 10 DO.
5. Start some unique EC's now and keep doing them until you apply. When I finished undergrad my EC's were garbage. Afterwards I got my EMT certification and started riding on a rescue squad and volunteering at a free clinic. Also found an afterschool center and spent one afternoon a week helping kids with their homework. I think the med schools liked seeing that I was able to keep these things up during my SMP.

Regardless of the path you take make sure you are 100% certain that you have figured out how to effectively study and that your academic and your personal troubles are behind you. If this means spending a year sorting out your personal issues and getting yourself into that academic mindset then so be it. You'll be walking on very thin ice until you get your first acceptance, don't retake any classes until you know without a doubt you'll be getting an A.

Hope that helped! Let me know if you have any other questions.

If you can't do this OP, then MD is off the table. 99 percentile MCAT will make up for a lot of sins.

 

[user3]

I was in a very similar situation to you 2 years ago and am starting at an MD school this fall. Most important advice I can give to you is make sure you've completely figured out why you keep getting C's and prove to yourself that you are able to perform at a very high academic level. For me, this included getting close to a 4.0 at an MD SMP as well as getting a 38 on the MCAT. Without both of these I definitely would not have had a successful cycle.

My advice to you:

1. Apply to SMP's and postbacc's now. Will be very difficult to get into a strong program with that MCAT, one option is to spend a year in an informal postbacc then take the MCAT and apply to SMP's with good linkages.
2. No matter where you take classes, you need to treat anything less than an A as failure, this is do or die time.
3. Summer after you do your postbacc set aside 2 months and absolutely ace the MCAT. 35+ is what you'll need if you want a shot at MD, 30+ should be good for DO
4. Apply broadly. I applied to 40 MD schools and 10 DO.
5. Start some unique EC's now and keep doing them until you apply. When I finished undergrad my EC's were garbage. Afterwards I got my EMT certification and started riding on a rescue squad and volunteering at a free clinic. Also found an afterschool center and spent one afternoon a week helping kids with their homework. I think the med schools liked seeing that I was able to keep these things up during my SMP.

Regardless of the path you take make sure you are 100% certain that you have figured out how to effectively study and that your academic and your personal troubles are behind you. If this means spending a year sorting out your personal issues and getting yourself into that academic mindset then so be it. You'll be walking on very thin ice until you get your first acceptance, don't retake any classes until you know without a doubt you'll be getting an A.

Hope that helped! Let me know if you have any other questions.

still shocked that you were rejected from KCOM and KCUMB, while they accepted people with mid-20's MCAT. unbelievable.

 

[Dr Turkelton]

still shocked that you were rejected from KCOM and KCUMB, while they accepted people with mid-20's MCAT. unbelievable.

Haha I've given up trying to make any sense of how this cycle went for me. Just glad it's over with at this point.

KCUMB did actually end up sending me a secondary, they said my app was auto-screened out. Was way too burnt out to actually submit it though. (OP don't do this)

 

[jbay99]

So I was pretty much in the exact same position as you are, stats and everything, and I completely disagree with a lot of the advice people have given you. I did a master's program at a medical school I wanted to go to, which gave me the opportunity to raise my GPA and get A LOT of experience in the medical school because I took all the first year science classes with the DO students. I also did a CNA program. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WORK AT A NURSING HOME. I did a month long CNA program and got hired as a patient tech on an orthopedic surgery floor at a hospital. It's true you don't get a lot of time working with doctors but you get WAY more experience working with patients. Understanding how to work with patients and assisting nurses with various procedures and treatments is far more beneficial in my opinion. You still learn a lot about medicine and you develop skills to work on and manage patients. I know a lot of medical students and work around doctors who are really awkward and have absolutely no bedside manner. Patients always notice it and make comments. In interviews, I was never asked what I learned from a doctor, but I was always asked to talk about patients and what I learned from caring for them. I'm sure other people who were scribes on here will argue with me. Anyway, to make my point, I had the same exact GPA and MCAT, did a master's program, became a CNA, and may have gotten into one of the schools that you mentioned... People always told me on here that my GPA was too low and that I needed to retake the MCAT but I didn't listen and it got me into my top choice. Everyone has their own way of doing things. Figure out what's going to work for you. If you want to ask about anything else, let me know. Good luck.

 

[buckeyes15]

I don't think that I can afford a post-bacc, and after talking to admissions departments at a few schools for DO I was told that if I got those straight A's in retakes and improved my MCAT I would be competitive. My ECs are decent from undergrad, I TA'ed for physiology for 3 years, went on a university outreach program to potential freshman twice, and was a mentor for new freshman in the pre-med track. Also, I am a member of a fraternity, and all the service opportunities that come along with that. I went on a mission trip to an impoverished Native American reservation, and I also have logged over 200 hours of clinical shadowing. I know that last number is low but that will be bumped up with whatever experience I look into for the gap year. I know everyone has a different path to medical school I just wish that mine was a little easier sometimes but it can't all be easy.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

So I was pretty much in the exact same position as you are, stats and everything, and I completely disagree with a lot of the advice people have given you. I did a master's program at a medical school I wanted to go to, which gave me the opportunity to raise my GPA and get A LOT of experience in the medical school because I took all the first year science classes with the DO students. I also did a CNA program. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WORK AT A NURSING HOME. I did a month long CNA program and got hired as a patient tech on an orthopedic surgery floor at a hospital. It's true you don't get a lot of time working with doctors but you get WAY more experience working with patients. Understanding how to work with patients and assisting nurses with various procedures and treatments is far more beneficial in my opinion. You still learn a lot about medicine and you develop skills to work on and manage patients. I know a lot of medical students and work around doctors who are really awkward and have absolutely no bedside manner. Patients always notice it and make comments. In interviews, I was never asked what I learned from a doctor, but I was always asked to talk about patients and what I learned from caring for them. I'm sure other people who were scribes on here will argue with me. Anyway, to make my point, I had the same exact GPA and MCAT, did a master's program, became a CNA, and may have gotten into one of the schools that you mentioned... People always told me on here that my GPA was too low and that I needed to retake the MCAT but I didn't listen and it got me into my top choice. Everyone has their own way of doing things. Figure out what's going to work for you. If you want to ask about anything else, let me know. Good luck.

I truly do not think you understand just how lucky you are, seriously... I am not trying to be biased or anything, most of the grads from my CNA course ended up in nursing homes, it just is what it is. Heck in some states hospitals cannot legally hired CNAs for those types of tech positions, you would have to have to be an MA ( a 2 year program).

I agree that the CNA experience was invaluable for learning how to interact with and help patients. But in the end you learn that in medical school and residency. Not to mention, what, you think if those awkward docs were CNAs before medical school, then they wouldnt be awkward anymore? No way, some people are just like that. Some docs just suck, plain as day. One needs to know if being a doctor is even really for them, hence spending more time with docs is probably better... Idk, I would stick to my original sentiment that scribe is better.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I don't think that I can afford a post-bacc, and after talking to admissions departments at a few schools for DO I was told that if I got those straight A's in retakes and improved my MCAT I would be competitive. My ECs are decent from undergrad, I TA'ed for physiology for 3 years, went on a university outreach program to potential freshman twice, and was a mentor for new freshman in the pre-med track. Also, I am a member of a fraternity, and all the service opportunities that come along with that. I went on a mission trip to an impoverished Native American reservation, and I also have logged over 200 hours of clinical shadowing. I know that last number is low but that will be bumped up with whatever experience I look into for the gap year. I know everyone has a different path to medical school I just wish that mine was a little easier sometimes but it can't all be easy.

Your shadowing is more than enough... Your ECs seem fine too. Just get the grades and MCAT and continue with clinical work and you are good to go. Come talk to us a year from now to help form a solid list of schools.

 

[buckeyes15]

Also, my mother is a manager of inpatient therapy at a local hospital, so while she probably would not be able to get me a job in her department, hopefully she will have connections that will allow me to get into a hospital setting.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Also, my mother is a manager of inpatient therapy at a local hospital, so while she probably would not be able to get me a job in her department, hopefully she will have connections that will allow me to get into a hospital setting.

Maybe dude... My best friend/roommate's dad is a CFO of a hospital that I was desperately trying to work at. He had no luck getting me in, they can give you the thumbs up all they want but you still have to pass through HR which, by design, in meant to be independent of other employees at the job.

 

[JeBrAs]

@jbay99 I think we had similar CNA experiences. I took a 2 week course and was initially hired at a Long Term Acute Care Hospital with no previous experience. After that I worked in a long term care unit in a Regional Medical Facility in a state psychiatric prison. Both these CNA positions exposed me to a wide variety of patients and health care providers, allowed me to network with physicians for shadowing opportunities in several different specialties --->LORs, build good bed-side manners, and gain a better understanding of what nurses do (and how to treat them). At all of my interviews either the 1st or 2nd question asked to me "What was it like working as a CNA in psychiatric prison and what were your patient experiences like?" But like @Awesome Sauceome mentioned we were incredibly lucky to get into hospital systems right away as most hospitals wont even let you apply unless you can put that you have minimum 1 year experience and nursing homes are terrible to work at.

 

[j4pac]

I don't think that I can afford a post-bacc, and after talking to admissions departments at a few schools for DO I was told that if I got those straight A's in retakes and improved my MCAT I would be competitive. My ECs are decent from undergrad, I TA'ed for physiology for 3 years, went on a university outreach program to potential freshman twice, and was a mentor for new freshman in the pre-med track. Also, I am a member of a fraternity, and all the service opportunities that come along with that. I went on a mission trip to an impoverished Native American reservation, and I also have logged over 200 hours of clinical shadowing. I know that last number is low but that will be bumped up with whatever experience I look into for the gap year. I know everyone has a different path to medical school I just wish that mine was a little easier sometimes but it can't all be easy.

I look more at probabilities than possibilities. Is it possible that you get an MCAT in the high 30s and do a Master/MD program that could get you into an MD program? Yes...it is possible. But what is the probability? Pretty low.

I think that you can get in to a DO program just by retaking a year's worth of classes. That is where you are going to get the biggest bang for your buck. Your GPA is what's holding you back...fix your GPA by replacing poor scores with better ones.

I believe that the probability of you doing WORSE on your MCAT and destroying your opportunity to go to medical school is much higher than increasing your MCAT 13 points (or whatever the new MCAT equivalent would be). Position yourself to be a strong DO candidate by improving your GPA, get a strong DO LOR, and apply early and broad.

Good luck.

 

[Goro]

Suggest retaking all those classes and thus proving you can handle a medical school curriculum. "Just missing B's by a bit" means nothing. If you're seriuous about an MD school you'll need to ace a post-bac or SMP, and MCAT as well.

So I am graduating undergrad from my undergrad institution this May. I applied last year but a late rec letter from a professor screwed me a bit and I had a rough semester for personal reasons so now I have to rebound. I have done overall well in my classwork except for mainly chemistries (C's in Calc, microbe, GenChem2, both Ochems, and most likely biochem). I am planning on applying DO and possibly a few MD, but not for a bit. During this coming summer, I am going to get certified to be a CNA and work in that field while concurrently taking the classes I need to retake (6 overall). Would it be better to just focus on my chemistries and microbe while working the first year (before I re-apply), then take calc and a stats class over the application cycle? I did not miss B's by very much in most of these classes. Any and all advice would be appreciated. I visited schools the first time around and I really want to go to DMU or CCOM, and any MD schools in Chicago/Iowa if possible, but open to applying elsewhere also. Thank you very much.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Yes, definitely try to get work as a scribe. One of the schools I interviewed at told me it is one of the best experiences you can have for your application. That was 1 of 30+ DO schools though.

Was that the school that accepted you?

 

[evooo8]

Was that the school that accepted you?

No it was not.