3 Year Dental Schools

[mdub]

Why aren't there more 3 year dental schools?

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[OSU_DentGirl]

Which schools are 3 year schools? Anyway, what's the difference of 1 year? There's a lot of info to be crammed into 3 years, don't ya think?

 

[Audio]

Why aren't there more 3 year dental schools?

Because 4 years is barely enough!

 

[mdub]

Which schools are 3 year schools? Anyway, what's the difference of 1 year? There's a lot of info to be crammed into 3 years, don't ya think?

http://dental.pacific.edu/curriculum/DDS/DDSQuarters.pdf

1 year is a lot for a high income profession. That's 1 more year of tuition, 1 more year of interest, and 1 year of no earnings. That's equivalent to a couple hundred thousand dollars.

 

[mdub]

Because 4 years is barely enough!

Then what's the University of the Pacific's secret?

 

[Jeppedo]

Then what's the University of the Pacific's secret?

speed

 

[Sprgrover]

http://dental.pacific.edu/curriculum/DDS/DDSQuarters.pdf

1 year is a lot for a high income profession. That's 1 more year of tuition, 1 more year of interest, and 1 year of no earnings. That's equivalent to a couple hundred thousand dollars.

Dental curriculums are very compressed as it is and what you learn is just enough to get you licensed - they don't call it the practice of dentsitry for nothing. In fact, GPR's and AEGD's are becoming quite popular - things that extend your education another year. Trust me, there is a lot more to this profession than just learning how to drill teeth. During WWII a few dental programs switched to three year programs to churn out practioners for the war effort, but only UOP remained. How do they do it? No breaks and I have been told that their program is really intense.

 

[RSN-Dentite]

This is from a book that I received from UoP.

"The 2003-04 ADA Survey of Dental Education has just been released. The University of the Pacific, Arthur A. Dugoni School of Dentistry once again ranks first in the nation in hours of clinical instruction. It will also come as no suprise to students and faculty members that the average instructional week at Pacific is 47.1 hours in length, compared to the national average of 30.6.

Pacific students receive 1.4 times the national average of clinical experience. Some other schools stand out as having unique characteristics. Harvard students clock 2.6 times the national average in biomedical sciences classes. Colorado, with its mandatory community payback program, shows 7.3 times the national average in public health. Pennsylvania stresses hospital dentistry, about five times as much as other schools, and Tennessee students spend twice as much time in oral surgery." [contact point UoP vol.85 Number 2 2005]

 

[DUBS]

http://dental.pacific.edu/curriculum/DDS/DDSQuarters.pdf

1 year is a lot for a high income profession. That's 1 more year of tuition, 1 more year of interest, and 1 year of no earnings. That's equivalent to a couple hundred thousand dollars.

that's the thing about UOP, it's a 3 yr program but still costs just as much as other 4 year schools do

 

[RSN-Dentite]

You're right, it does cost a ton and I think that turns off many would be applicants to their program. However, you do have an extra year to work and pay off those pricey loans. If you think about the big picture, it makes a lot of sense financially to go there over another 250K+ school.

 

[crazy_sherm]

that's the thing about UOP, it's a 3 yr program but still costs just as much as other 4 year schools do

Well, what would be the argument for it to cost less? You're not getting less schooling or 3/4 of a DDS. Equipment costs just as much and so does having to pay faculty/staff. UOP is not by any means cheap, but since it's pretty much just as expensive as a private 4-year school, it makes better financial sense to graduate early...unless you plan on flunking a year.

 

[mdub]

that's the thing about UOP, it's a 3 yr program but still costs just as much as other 4 year schools do

But that's 1 year more of earnings.

 

[PaxRoma]

<mdub> you seems to be interested in a job that make quick money with least effort. I suggest you stick with being a lawyer.
There's more to dentistry then just making alot of money. If all you think is about money then I doubt if you really care for your patient; perhaps you just want to know how to suck alot of money from them.

Though the reward is great , but your goal should be how to help others. It seems like alot of people don't care about that nowadays..

 

[mdub]

<mdub> you seems to be interested in a job that make quick money with least effort. I suggest you stick with being a lawyer.

It's not about the least amount of effort, it's about making informed decisions. If you don't ask questions and do your research, you can't make an informed decision.

No other professional school in the United States has a varying number of years for its schools. All non-executive business schools are about 2 years. All law schools are 3 years. All med schools are 4 years. So it's odd that dentistry would be different.

There's more to dentistry then just making alot of money. If all you think is about money then I doubt if you really care for your patient; perhaps you just want to know how to suck alot of money from them.

I agree.

 

[Thoreau]

It's not about the least amount of effort, it's about making informed decisions. If you don't ask questions and do your research, you can't make an informed decision.

No other professional school in the United States has a varying number of years for its schools. All non-executive business schools are about 2 years. All law schools are 3 years. All med schools are 4 years. So it's odd that dentistry would be different.


I agree.

Most pharmacy schools are 4 years in the US, but there are some 3 year schools so it's not the only professional school with varying length.

 

[DUBS]

Well, what would be the argument for it to cost less? You're not getting less schooling or 3/4 of a DDS. Equipment costs just as much and so does having to pay faculty/staff. UOP is not by any means cheap, but since it's pretty much just as expensive as a private 4-year school, it makes better financial sense to graduate early...unless you plan on flunking a year.

you're absolutely right, UOP provides the same amount of dental education and equipment so its tuition should be just as much as 4 year schools. But the SDN list that contains the stats of all the dental schools also has an estimate of how much it costs at each dental school, over 3 or 4 years depending on the school. It also includes living expenses and such, and UOP comes very close to the price tag of 4 yr schools, and thus my question is when you finish a year early, then shouldn't you save money in living expenses for that extra year? this isn't the case according to that list.

 

[mcshow2]

UoP might be able to cram in the equal ammount of clinical experience into 3 years (if not a little more) but no way can they provide the same comprehensive education.

Dentistry is going to evolve as prevention techniques keep improving and the occupation is going to be much less drilling and filling. There is going to be much more of an oral pathology/disease detection/total body systems approach. That knowledge was imparted to me by a wonderful oral surgeon in my area who says he wishes he was my age because he feels dentistry is going to take off and evolve in the near future.

Do dentists that graduate from Pacific have great clinical skills and become excellent general dentists? Yes they do, but I think the profession is moving in another direction.

We all have our biases, those are mine. 🙂

 

[Mustt Mustt]

I wanted to go to UOP and still do. But I never heard anything from them. They fill their class very quickly. From what I know, they are very good clinically and as somebody pointed out Dental School just teaches you basics of Dentistry. That is the reason tons of expensive CE classes exits. I still want to go to UOP if they give me a spot but I think it's too late. You can't beat 3 year program. I know it is intense but it is only 3 years.

 

[JavadiCavity]

UoP might be able to cram in the equal ammount of clinical experience into 3 years (if not a little more) but no way can they provide the same comprehensive education.

Dentistry is going to evolve as prevention techniques keep improving and the occupation is going to be much less drilling and filling. There is going to be much more of an oral pathology/disease detection/total body systems approach. That knowledge was imparted to me by a wonderful oral surgeon in my area who says he wishes he was my age because he feels dentistry is going to take off and evolve in the near future.

Do dentists that graduate from Pacific have great clinical skills and become excellent general dentists? Yes they do, but I think the profession is moving in another direction.

We all have our biases, those are mine. 🙂

Not sure why you think Pacific doesn't spend as much time teaching students about oral pathology, disease detection, etc. During the first year, we spend a considerable amount of time learning about the subjects you just mentioned. During the second and third years we will spend a combined 4 quarters learning more about those subjects....all of this on top of our very busy preclinical and clinical schedules.

Do you want to know why more schools haven't switched to a 3-year model? One reason, shared with me by the school's administration, is that schools (especially state-subsidized schools) benefit a lot by squeezing a lot of production out of dental students. States subsidize tuitions for a reason....it's a way to finance the health care costs of the poor and underserved in the state. It's a simple matter of taking the amount of money spent educating students divided by the amount of money that student produces in the clinic. The more money the student makes, the cheaper the students' education actually costs the state. It's killing two birds with one stone.

A second reason more schools haven't gone to a shorter educational model is because it takes a lot of work and money to switch things around. It's obviously possible to do it very effectively in 3 years...

 

[DUBS]

Not sure why you think Pacific doesn't spend as much time teaching students about oral pathology, disease detection, etc. During the first year, we spend a considerable amount of time learning about the subjects you just mentioned. During the second and third years we will spend a combined 4 quarters learning more about those subjects....all of this on top of our very busy preclinical and clinical schedules.

Do you want to know why more schools haven't switched to a 3-year model? One reason, shared with me by the school's administration, is that schools (especially state-subsidized schools) benefit a lot by squeezing a lot of production out of dental students. States subsidize tuitions for a reason....it's a way to finance the health care costs of the poor and underserved in the state. It's a simple matter of taking the amount of money spent educating students divided by the amount of money that student produces in the clinic. The more money the student makes, the cheaper the students' education actually costs the state. It's killing two birds with one stone.

A second reason more schools haven't gone to a shorter educational model is because it takes a lot of work and money to switch things around. It's obviously possible to do it very effectively in 3 years...

As you attend UOP, I wanted to know how intense their curriculum is? Do you have to take classes and lab over the entire summer as well? Is the curriculum year-round? Thanks.

 

[Dukie]

UNC is year round for 4 years and I think all the time is necessary. Sure, I'd love to be done in 3- it's quite intense. But many of the students here go on and do GPR/AEGDs afterwards. All the experience is very valuable and well worth the full four years.

 

[isd121]

I was looking at Univ of Detroit Mercy's curriculum. Their curriculum seems intense too...they have classes in summers; but still it is four years 😕
http://dental.udmercy.edu/academics/dds_curriculum.php
Lets say that UOP teaches same material in 3 years as other universities; but don't we (students) need some time to understand that material.

 

[Future DDS]

As you attend UOP, I wanted to know how intense their curriculum is? Do you have to take classes and lab over the entire summer as well? Is the curriculum year-round? Thanks.

I don't attend UOP, but I know alot about the school. They do teach the same DDS material as you'd find at any other dental schools, and it's possible because they start in very early summer and their curriculum is year-round. The first year is the most intense year. Your schedule is full from 8am in the morning until 5pm, didactic and clinic back to back w/ an hr of lunch. Not just this, most students stay in the sim-lab until 9pm to finish their work. I have many friends who attend UOP, they all say the same thing, it's very crazy but doable. If you're slow, then you're pretty much screwed, esp. in lab.
2nd year is much lighter than 1st year. You start working with real patients, so you migrate from the sim-lab to the real clinic. 3rd year is the most relaxing.

 

[nothen2do]

I don't attend UOP, but I know alot about the school. They do teach the same DDS material as you'd find at any other dental schools, and it's possible because they start in very early summer and their curriculum is year-round. The first year is the most intense year. Your schedule is full from 8am in the morning until 5pm, didactic and clinic back to back w/ an hr of lunch. Not just this, most students stay in the sim-lab until 9pm to finish their work. I have many friends who attend UOP, they all say the same thing, it's very crazy but doable. If you're slow, then you're pretty much screwed, esp. in lab.
2nd year is much lighter than 1st year. You start working with real patients, so you migrate from the sim-lab to the real clinic. 3rd year is the most relaxing.

Same schedule here at ucsf so far, but we're 4 years

 

[JavadiCavity]

As you attend UOP, I wanted to know how intense their curriculum is? Do you have to take classes and lab over the entire summer as well? Is the curriculum year-round? Thanks.

The curriculum is intense. I'd say it's like working a 90 hour work week. Is it more intense than other schools? I have no idea. Never been anywhere else. Aside from a 3rd party organization reporting that Pacific students are in class 20 hours longer per week than other dental students, I have no way of knowing much about the "average" intensity of other programs. Also, lots of schools have a full year curriculum.

But, it's as simple as this, Pacific students take the same number of credit hours as other 4-year dental schools in the country. As an undergrad, I had friends who completed a typical 4-year degree in 2.5 years or 3 years. They had the flexibility to do that because the program wasn't a lock-step program like dental school. Would anyone tell those students who finished undergrad much quicker than average that they didn't get as good an education because there is no way that there was enough time to cover everything? That would be obtuse to make a comment like that. And, that is why there are standards set up by the ADEA, ADA, and other dental regulatory bodies: to make sure graduating dentists meet a minimum level of competency.

And, before anybody jumps on the word "minimum", I'd submit that there isn't any school that does any better than Pacific at preparing dental students to enter practice. We all leave school at about the same level (with minor variations in ability).

 

[JavadiCavity]

Same schedule here at ucsf so far, but we're 4 years

Here's the web address for UCSF's students: UCSF Curriculum.

Without talking to you more about it...your schedule looks full, but not as intense as what we are doing at Pacific. Not even close.

 

[nothen2do]

Without talking to you more about it...your schedule looks full, but not as intense as what we are doing at Pacific. Not even close.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link, I don't know why you gave it to me considering I go to ucsf. I also don't know what your basis is with comparing our schedules since each school's units and classes are different. I love these threads, cause the UOPers always get put into a hissy fit when people talk about their curriculum. All I know is, next year I'm bringing some ringers to IM football so we can try to beat 1 of your 3 teams. Man I hate losing in IM...

 

[crazy_sherm]

Thanks for the link, I don't know why you gave it to me considering I go to ucsf. I also don't know what your basis is with comparing our schedules since each school's units and classes are different. I love these threads, cause the UOPers always get put into a hissy fit when people talk about their curriculum. All I know is, next year I'm bringing some ringers to IM football so we can try to beat 1 of your 3 teams. Man I hate losing in IM...

Well, can you really blame us at UOP getting a little annoyed by negative comments about a school we enjoy attending? If you look at past threads, the majority of comments about UOP are made up of disgruntled declined applicants or people who can't fathom the idea of a 3-year education being adequate. We're just trying to set the record staight since you can't really have as good an understanding of the school without attending.

I mean, if I were to make a thread about how UCSF sucks and how the preclin lab looks like it was built in the 30s, or how most students only graduate having done 2 endo procedures, etc. I'm sure you and DREDAY would probably have at least one comment about how I don't know jack.

As for intensity of the curriculum, I have no clue as to how it feels at UCSF. I would say I really like your new integrated curriculum. We've only just started to touch on that type of education at UOP, and I definitely liked it better because of the amount of context and practicality it adds to learning. I find that whether school feels intense or not really depends on how closely matched your strengths are to the current assignement/project and also what your expectations are. Gunners will think it's always busy because it will be to be a superstar. I, for example, find lab extremely tiresome because my handskills suck, but didactics are pretty much standard fair. So it really only seems crazy when we have a ton of projects due or practicals the same week as midterms.

BTW, I didn't know it until I started school, but UOP seems to be made of of nothing but jocks and pissed off mormons who love to get away from their wives to cause pain to fellow students at "friendly" sports. Good luck with IM!