3rd and 4th year Away Rotations

[Doctor4Life1769]

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Hi guys,

I am currently a 2nd year osteo. medical student. I've been doing research this summer with a surgeon; however, I also took advantage of the summer time off from school by rotating in other specialties. I rotated through anesthesiology twice, and enjoyed it a lot. I rotated with the prof of anes and the chair of anes. I learned a lot, and even got a chance to intubate a patient. I was curious about rotations for 3rd and 4th year. How many rotations should I do in anes for my electives/selectives? Also, in what areas of anes should I rotate that would benefit me the most? I hear the ICU and OR settings (I rotated through the OR setting) to be good, but I wanted your opinions on which setting (if any) would be most beneficial when it comes to learning, getting good letters, and making a good impression to the residents and attendings.

I plan on coming back to doing an allopathic residency and I'd prefer to come back to this certain university (top 10); however, I know I should keep an open mind when determining location. Any advice on how one should go about all this? Thanks!

 

[McSnappy]

Hi guys,

I am currently a 2nd year osteo. medical student. I've been doing research this summer with a surgeon; however, I also took advantage of the summer time off from school by rotating in other specialties. I rotated through anesthesiology twice, and enjoyed it a lot. I rotated with the prof of anes and the chair of anes. I learned a lot, and even got a chance to intubate a patient. I was curious about rotations for 3rd and 4th year. How many rotations should I do in anes for my electives/selectives? Also, in what areas of anes should I rotate that would benefit me the most? I hear the ICU and OR settings (I rotated through the OR setting) to be good, but I wanted your opinions on which setting (if any) would be most beneficial when it comes to learning, getting good letters, and making a good impression to the residents and attendings.

I plan on coming back to doing an allopathic residency and I'd prefer to come back to this certain university (top 10); however, I know I should keep an open mind when determining location. Any advice on how one should go about all this? Thanks!

One "Step" at a time.
1. Focus on getting the best grades you can in MS2. Studying hard for your classes Now and doing well in those courses is your best preparation for USMLE Step 1 (And yes, you will need to take it).

2. Bust Step 1. "From what I hear around here, t h i s year you will need ~260+". Just do the best you can

3. Get good grades in year 3.
4. Ask the people you are rotating with that you would like to get a letter of recommendation from them. At the end of the rotation, ask them if you can get a "strong" letter of recommendation from them.

5. Get close to the same score on Step 2 or better.

6. Rotate away IF... your scores are lower, your grades are poorer, and most importantly...IF you won't offend someone with your attitude/persona/etc. while doing the away...i.e. the place(s) you would want to attend. Which means, you need someone who knows you well to work on you and knock the chips off b/c the last thing you want to do is do an away and come away 1. a bland letter of rec and/or 2. no chance of matching there b/c of you.

7. Take all of this as just IMHO.

 

[neuroride]

The above post is a great outline for what you need to do. I am a D.O. at an allopathic program currently and felt that doing an away rotation here was key for me. I had decent board scores and 3rd year grades, but I came to the program and really worked hard. I got a great evalution at the end of the month and feel that having your face there for a month and showing them true interest and that you will work hard for them in the future is key.

Again, I am one person and that is how my road into anesthesiology shaped up.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Thanks for the replies.

I definitely plan to take the USMLE. No questions asked.

I was an average student in 1st year. Not a superstar, but definitely not one who was just skating by, either. Hopefully I can do better in year 2 though. How big are pre-clinical grades for residency?

I know the average is 220, so I assume I need to do better than that. I'd definitely love to hit that 260!

I just fell in love with Anesthesiology after rotating with them twice. I know it's a far cry from actually doing a real rotation, but I got the chance to observe almost every aspect of it and felt it was right for me. Before this experience, I didn't even consider it.

I guess I will wait on the 3rd/4th year rotation questions when the time comes. Thanks!

 

[McSnappy]

Thanks for the replies.

I definitely plan to take the USMLE. No questions asked.

I was an average student in 1st year. Not a superstar, but definitely not one who was just skating by, either. Hopefully I can do better in year 2 though. How big are pre-clinical grades for residency?

I know the average is 220, so I assume I need to do better than that. I'd definitely love to hit that 260!

I just fell in love with Anesthesiology after rotating with them twice. I know it's a far cry from actually doing a real rotation, but I got the chance to observe almost every aspect of it and felt it was right for me. Before this experience, I didn't even consider it.

I guess I will wait on the 3rd/4th year rotation questions when the time comes. Thanks!

The list I made above is the relative order of importance, with #6 rising inversely related to your Step 1 score, then your grades in year 3 (the more important grades of your medical school career which are partially directly proportional to your year 2 grades, i.e., the better you do in year two will reflect your ability to be pimped w/ positive result). In other words, don't blow off year one/two, which I know you won't b/c you are posting here and looking for your edge, therefore you are a competitive SOB.😎😛

Importance or Order of importance is mostly a reflection of you. I am just above the mean on scores w/ step 2 probably (no score yet) being higher than the mean (I'm an optimist), but... I'm a worker who gets along with people and make friends easily, handles patients effectively and looks to help people out, therefore my LORs are proportionally better than my scores and therefore I reflect them higher in my rank of importance.😉

Still, Step 1 will forever be my/your barometer. Therefore, if your step is lower, you will need to show them your face or the thought of "cutoff" score comes into being. Warning to previous post. The "away" rotation can do one of two things. 1. hurt you or 2. get you a spot. there isn't much gray, so "choose wisely" My thoughts are if I do an away, I am interviewing with everyone and have to impress everyone. Lots of pressure w/ a huge payoff. One person doesn't like you...bam, you're done!

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Sounds good.

I figured with me being a DO students that I would likely need both good board scores (230+) and away rotations at good academic DO-friendly allo programs with good letters. I am good about working hard and thinking through Qs when getting pimped, and even though I still may not know the answer, I will always strive to try my best (or look it up) to get the answer.

The university I rotated through said they don't discriminate based on MD/DO; however, the resident (a DO) that I spoke with said that I should try to do better than the average. With the major systems still left for year 2: cardio/pulm/GI/renal (very important systems involved in drug effects, elimination, metabolism, etc) -- I will definitely be hitting each part hard and hopefully the cursory run-through over the major drugs over the summer (and on those rotations, specifically) will help reiterate what was picked up on during the rotations. For once, I'm actually looking forward to covering the pharmacology of the drugs involved in these systems.

All I can say is, 1 more day before I hit the grind ... I mean, hell.

On a side note: Would a letter from a prominent faculty member (same university) in a DIFFERENT specialty be helpful, or are they generally considered unimportant when it comes down to evaluating students for residency slots?

 

[amyl]

letters, in general, are lower on the list of things residency programs consider in evaluating the applicant.
you do not need a 230+, even as a DO, to match at a top program. i feel that my program is a top top program, amongst the very best in the country (others might disagree i know). and it is very DO friendly. i'm a DO and didn't break the step one 230+ mark but had good grades and gave a good enough interview (i think) and it all worked out for me. aim high, but don't think the 220s aren't good enough to match well.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Thanks so much for the advice! I appreciate it. I figure you matched into Cleveland Clinic? That's wonderful, glad to know that there's DOs who scored at the average and still made it into a top program.

Any other input from seasoned DO residents and attendings are appreciated. Thanks again guys and gals!

 

[zackmorris fan]

I agree with amyl completely. I am a 4th year DO doing an away clinical research rotation at Outcomes research at CCF. I can honestly say that the program is awesome!! everyone is sooo nice and I couldn't imagine a better environment to learn. They will take anybody interested in doing research, and you get to work for the leading clinical anesthesiologist in the world, dr. daniel sessler. I've been told a letter from him can get you very far in terms of interviews. I've been here for less than 3 weeks and I've been a part of 3 clinical studies. MOst highly competitive programs place a premium on research, and I feel really lucky to have this opportunity. I hope to pass this on to others who might also benefit from this, as I have. PM me for any more questions about the clinical research program at ccf.

 

[amyl]

to all my fledgling DOs out there -- CCF is a great program that is super DO friendly. they take comlex too, one of my residency mates matched here without the usmle.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Aye, been super busy studying. Thanks for all the info!

That is awesome that CCF takes DOs without the USMLE; however, I know how top notch it is, so I can't just rely on not taking the USMLE and hoping for Cleveland Clinic. Quick question, is it at an affiliate hospital or the main hospital?? Either way, it's awesome but I was just curious!

In regards to the research opportunities, I'm definitely interested -- especially in regards to doing an elective research month in anesthesiology. I already have almost 1 publication and should have a 2nd and maybe 3rd by the time it is 3rd year (in surgery). I'll definitely PM you for the information.