4th Year Schedules

[air bud]

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Now that new students are interviewing, and also out of curiosity, I think it is important for people to understand the differences between 4th year schedules of the individual schools. I am not saying one is right or wrong, just that they are likely different

DMU: You have to do 11 months of rotations. 6 months = Podiatry. Core will satisfy 2 of 6. Thus, you have to do a minimum of 4 clerkships.
Core = 3 months (2 Pod, 1 Med). This can be done at 20 something locations DMU has established relationships with.
Medicine = 1 month. Can be done anywhere and can be split into 2 sub specialties (CV, ER,ICU, FP, GE,IM, Heme/Onc, ID, Nephro, Neuro, Onco, Pulm, Rheum, Endo/Diabtes)
Private Practice = 1 month
Electives - Lots of options.

Now it depends on what core you do. If you do 4th core (Mar-May) you could see 7 full programs before CRIPS. Jun- Dec and part of program before Jan 13th (??).

If you do 1st or 2nd core, you will be able to see 5 programs, including your core if that is a desirable program for you.

Hope this helps
Other schools?

EDIT: This assumes you spend your vacation month on externship. You could see even more by seeing multiple programs during that month. I am probably going to spend my vacation in December and do 1 week each at 2 programs, as well as go back and visit 1 or 2 previously clerked programs.

 

[amaprez]

As an applicant I would LOVE to see more on this from different schools 👍

 

[air bud]

As an applicant I would LOVE to see more on this from different schools 👍

Yeah, its a big deal. Interviewing students focus too much on the first 2 years, and not enough on the 3rd and 4th. Usually because there are mainly 1st years on SDN and only 2nd years that do campus tours.
I challenge all the schools to post their schedules on here (good naturedly of course)

 

[ldsrmdude]

As a 4th year at AZPod, our schedules look something like this:

6 months of CORE (3 months podiatry, 1 month each of Internal Med, Gen Surg, and Emergency Med). These 6 months are usually not consecutive, but broken into blocks (for example, I have 2 blocks of 3 months). You choose your schedule in a lottery, but there is some flexibility. There are around 20 or so programs that we have agreements with to do CORE at. Most have residencies, but I think there is at least 1 that doesn't (in Tucson at SALSA with Dr. Armstrong).

4 clerkships- Depending on your schedule for CORE, these are usually before interviews and ranking, but you might have 1 after.

1 month of a non-podiatry medicine or surgery specialty- This can be almost any specialty. Classmates are doing ortho, plastics, physical med and rehab, etc. This can be done basically anywhere that you can get the paperwork taken care of, but most students choose to do it the same place they are doing their CORE.

1 month vacation/extra clerkship/ visit programs.

All in all, I think our 4th year schedule is good. Being at one program for 6+ months with your CORE can be a plus or minus depending on if it is a program you are interested in. I got lucky and am doing my CORE at a program I hope to end up at for residency, but there are some students that are doing their CORE at places they have no desire to end up at, so for them, that means less time at other programs. It's a double-edged sword. I do agree that clinical schedules should at least be looked at when prospective students are choosing a school. Some schools (Scholl) get upwards of 8-10 clerkships before interviews. Some, like AZPod, get 4-5 (you can schedule a clerkship as a 3rd year elective too).

 

[amaprez]

Some schools (Scholl) get upwards of 8-10 clerkships before interviews. Some, like AZPod, get 4-5 (you can schedule a clerkship as a 3rd year elective too).

So Scholl gets almost double the number of clerkships as other schools. I wonder if this directly correlates to more interviews for residencies and thus better match results for Scholl students? Or does it not work that way?

 

[FiveOVicryl]

So Scholl gets almost double the number of clerkships as other schools. I wonder if this directly correlates to more interviews for residencies and thus better match results for Scholl students? Or does it not work that way?

Not necessarily. Ask around or perform a search on residency placement and board pass rates. You'll see that over the years, AZPOD and DMU have consistently had the HIGHEST board pass rates AND residency placement among all schools (Scholl has solid results as well but definately not the highest)

 

[RockyIV]

A majority of Scholl students only get ~7 months at hospitals that have podiatry programs. Only a couple actually get 8-9 since, with 100+ students, they have a lottery for rotation schedules and most of the pre determined schedules don't let you get in the max number. A 3rd or 4th year recently posted their set up. You could probably just quote it and add it to this thread.

 

[UW66]

A majority of Scholl students only get ~7 months at hospitals that have podiatry programs. Only a couple actually get 8-9 since, with 100+ students, they have a lottery for rotation schedules and most of the pre determined schedules don't let you get in the max number. A 3rd or 4th year recently posted their set up. You could probably just quote it and add it to this thread.

SCHOLLS SCHEDULE

We start rotations in Janurary of the 3rd year.

Most students get 8 electives before crips, some only get 7.

We have a 9th elective month after crips, or if you only got 7 electives before crips you get your 8th and 9th elective afterwards.

we have 4 months of "core podiatry" rotations around chicago, all at residency locations. A month at north chicago VA, Jesse Brown VA, Hines/Loyola, and Stroger(cook county) which is part of the Advocate Masonic program.

We do 3 months of "general medicine" one month of ER, general surgery and the third one might be general medicine or something, i dont even know.

ill have been to 8 electives, and 3 of the 4 chicago rotations, before crips, which is the case for the majority of the 2012 class, but of course not all.

 

[amaprez]

FROM http://prospective.westernu.edu/podiatry/curriculum

THIRD YEAR
PM 7010 General Medicine/Family Medicine
PM 7020 Internal Medicine I
PM 7021 Internal Medicine II
PM 7022 Internal Medicine III
PM 7030 Surgery I
PM 7050 Surgical Elective (Sub-Specialty surgery)
PM 7060 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery & Biomechanics/Orthopedics I
PM 7070 Pediatrics
PM 7080 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics II
PM 7090 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics III
PM 8055 Essentials of Clinical Medicine V

FOURTH YEAR
PM 7510 Internal Medicine IV
PM 7515 Medicine Sub-Internship
PM 7520 Internal Medicine V
PM 7521 Internal Medicine VI
PM 7530 Surgery II Sub-Internship
PM 7540 Emergency Medicine
PM 7550 Elective
PM 7560 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics IV
PM 7590 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics V
PM 8555 Essentials of Clinical Medicine VI


Can anyone from Western comment on why Western has you do SIX internal medicine rotations versus only five Podiatry-related rotations? Most other podiatry schools seem to require only 1-2 IM rotations. This does not make any sense to me from a training point of view. 😕

 

[air bud]

FROM http://prospective.westernu.edu/podiatry/curriculum

THIRD YEAR
PM 7010 General Medicine/Family Medicine
PM 7020 Internal Medicine I
PM 7021 Internal Medicine II
PM 7022 Internal Medicine III
PM 7030 Surgery I
PM 7050 Surgical Elective (Sub-Specialty surgery)
PM 7060 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery & Biomechanics/Orthopedics I
PM 7070 Pediatrics
PM 7080 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics II
PM 7090 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics III
PM 8055 Essentials of Clinical Medicine V

FOURTH YEAR
PM 7510 Internal Medicine IV
PM 7515 Medicine Sub-Internship
PM 7520 Internal Medicine V
PM 7521 Internal Medicine VI
PM 7530 Surgery II Sub-Internship
PM 7540 Emergency Medicine
PM 7550 Elective
PM 7560 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics IV
PM 7590 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics V
PM 8555 Essentials of Clinical Medicine VI


Can anyone from Western comment on why Western has you do SIX internal medicine rotations versus only five Podiatry-related rotations? Most other podiatry schools seem to require only 1-2 IM rotations. This does not make any sense to me from a training point of view. 😕

You can't go by what a piece of paper says. Relax. Clearly htey can't comment on 4th year yet. But a better explanation from a current 3rd year would be great.

 

[WaveOR]

FROM http://prospective.westernu.edu/podiatry/curriculum

THIRD YEAR
PM 7010 General Medicine/Family Medicine
PM 7020 Internal Medicine I
PM 7021 Internal Medicine II
PM 7022 Internal Medicine III
PM 7030 Surgery I
PM 7050 Surgical Elective (Sub-Specialty surgery)
PM 7060 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery & Biomechanics/Orthopedics I
PM 7070 Pediatrics
PM 7080 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics II
PM 7090 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics III
PM 8055 Essentials of Clinical Medicine V

FOURTH YEAR
PM 7510 Internal Medicine IV
PM 7515 Medicine Sub-Internship
PM 7520 Internal Medicine V
PM 7521 Internal Medicine VI
PM 7530 Surgery II Sub-Internship
PM 7540 Emergency Medicine
PM 7550 Elective
PM 7560 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics IV
PM 7590 Podiatric Medicine, Surgery and Biomechanics/Orthopedics V
PM 8555 Essentials of Clinical Medicine VI


Can anyone from Western comment on why Western has you do SIX internal medicine rotations versus only five Podiatry-related rotations? Most other podiatry schools seem to require only 1-2 IM rotations. This does not make any sense to me from a training point of view. 😕

I am 3rd year from WesternU. The above schedule isn't entirely correct, but it was a good guess at the time of creation for our actual schedule. Our third year is from the beginning of June to the end of May.
- 4 months of core podiatry rotations
- 6 months of non-podiatry- including int med, fam med, emergency med, ID, gensurg, sub specialty surgery usually ortho unless your core hospital is the one that does urology, haha.
- 2 months of externships in April and June

and then our 4th year is somewhat of a mystery at this time, as not all the information is known yet

 

[Treatments]

Thanks for sharing this schedule.

 

[darazon]

Just to add what WaveOR already said. This is my schedule. It will change slightly depending on where your core hospital is at.

3rd Year
Core hospitals: UCLA/Olive View, VA West LA, Riverside County, Arrowhead Regional, Downey Regional
4 Podiatry rotations
1 Internal Medicine
1 Family Medicine
1 Cardiology
1 Emergency Medicine
1 Orthopeadics
1 General Surgery
2 Months for externships
Every non-podiatry rotation is at your core hospital. The 4 podiatry rotations are between ULCA/Olive View, VA, Riverside/Arrowhead, and the Patient Care Clinic (PCC) on campus.

4th Year
Core hospitals: The same as 3rd year plus Scott & White (Texas), VA Palo Alto (NoCal), VA New Mexico, and another in Michigan I can't recall. These are subject to change.
2 Podiatry rotations
5 Non-podiatry
4 Months for externship

As you can see you have the chance to visit numerous different programs before you interview: UCLA/Olive View & VA LA, Scott & White, VA Palo Alto, VA New Mexico, Michigan, and 6 programs of your choosing. Riverside and Arrowhead will be opening up a residency (hopefully for class of 2013) so that could be added as well. That should equal (If I calculated it right) about 10 programs to visit for a month each before interviews. We also have the December before interviews open to visit programs.

During 3rd year we also have a doctoring/didactic session each week for a couple of hours. There are no classes during 3rd/4th year, but there is talk about having us take shelf exams.

 

[amaprez]

Just to add what WaveOR already said. This is my schedule. It will change slightly depending on where your core hospital is at.

3rd Year
Core hospitals: UCLA/Olive View, VA West LA, Riverside County, Arrowhead Regional, Downey Regional
4 Podiatry rotations
1 Internal Medicine
1 Family Medicine
1 Cardiology
1 Emergency Medicine
1 Orthopeadics
1 General Surgery
2 Months for externships
Every non-podiatry rotation is at your core hospital. The 4 podiatry rotations are between ULCA/Olive View, VA, Riverside/Arrowhead, and the Patient Care Clinic (PCC) on campus.

4th Year
Core hospitals: The same as 3rd year plus Scott & White (Texas), VA Palo Alto (NoCal), VA New Mexico, and another in Michigan I can't recall. These are subject to change.
2 Podiatry rotations
5 Non-podiatry
4 Months for externship

As you can see you have the chance to visit numerous different programs before you interview: UCLA/Olive View & VA LA, Scott & White, VA Palo Alto, VA New Mexico, Michigan, and 6 programs of your choosing. Riverside and Arrowhead will be opening up a residency (hopefully for class of 2013) so that could be added as well. That should equal (If I calculated it right) about 10 programs to visit for a month each before interviews. We also have the December before interviews open to visit programs.

During 3rd year we also have a doctoring/didactic session each week for a couple of hours. There are no classes during 3rd/4th year, but there is talk about having us take shelf exams.

More than just talk I thought? I was told that standardized NBME shelf exams are in process of being implemented for nearly every rotation (ie. Internal Med/Family Med/Surg). Though to be fair I think some other schools have some sort of examination at the end of rotations as well (for example CSPM makes you take their own exams). On the other hand, I have met a student from Scholl on his externship who told me that he has no tests of any sort in 3rd/4th year other than the required podiatry board exams. This is both good and bad imho.

 

[Ron05hc]

Would an OCPM 3rd or 4th year be so kind as to post their schedule as well?

 

[flyhi]

Would an OCPM 3rd or 4th year be so kind as to post their schedule as well?

Yes, Please. And Temple's too 😀

 

[KaTrInAtF4]

can anyone comment on the hours during 3rd/4th year. i hear rumors around western that students are putting in 30 hour calls, working weekends, etc etc. is that normal for 3rd year? i also heard a resident who said that 3rd year was the easiest year....confused 🙁

 

[amaprez]

can anyone comment on the hours during 3rd/4th year. i hear rumors around western that students are putting in 30 hour calls, working weekends, etc etc. is that normal for 3rd year? i also heard a resident who said that 3rd year was the easiest year....confused 🙁

I'm not a current student, but here is what I found on SDN regarding call schedules as a medical student. I imagine for rotations such as surgery and internal med it should be about the same for podiatry?

 

[darazon]

From my prospective so far, I would say 3rd year is not the easiest from any stretch.

I showed up to my first day of Internal Medicine to find that I was scheduled for a 30 hour call starting right then. I had to work the following Sunday, and then Monday I had another 30 hour call. Most days start at 6 am and finish 6 pm and I work one day every weekend. It's long hours, but it is a ton of fun and a great learning experience. I am assigned to a team of 3 other med students, 2 interns, and 2 attendings. Everyone knows I am a podiatry student, but I am expected to be at par with the regular med students as far as my medicine knowledge goes and I am given the same liberties to decide patient care as anyone else. I am responsible to know absolutely everything about my patients and know what orders to put through.

Last month I had general surgery. I would get up at 4 am, be at the hospital at 6 am doing my pre-rounds and be back home at 7:30 pm, eat and then go straight to bed. No life, but I was able to scrub into some pretty cool surgeries and be first assist in a lot of them. I even got to scrub into some nuero, urology, and OB surgeries as well.

I have it easy at the hospital were I am at. Some other students at Western start their days at 3 am and have 36 hour calls!!

On top of the long hours you have to keep reading. Not only reading about cases that you are currently seeing in your patients or in surgery, but also keeping up with the podiatry stuff.

This may sound intimidating, but it sure beats the classroom!!!

Anyways, that's what 3rd year looks like from my perspective. Busy and hard -but it's a blast.

 

[347932]

From my prospective so far, I would say 3rd year is not the easiest from any stretch.

I showed up to my first day of Internal Medicine to find that I was scheduled for a 30 hour call starting right then. I had to work the following Sunday, and then Monday I had another 30 hour call. Most days start at 6 am and finish 6 pm and I work one day every weekend. It's long hours, but it is a ton of fun and a great learning experience. I am assigned to a team of 3 other med students, 2 interns, and 2 attendings. Everyone knows I am a podiatry student, but I am expected to be at par with the regular med students as far as my medicine knowledge goes and I am given the same liberties to decide patient care as anyone else. I am responsible to know absolutely everything about my patients and know what orders to put through.

Last month I had general surgery. I would get up at 4 am, be at the hospital at 6 am doing my pre-rounds and be back home at 7:30 pm, eat and then go straight to bed. No life, but I was able to scrub into some pretty cool surgeries and be first assist in a lot of them. I even got to scrub into some nuero, urology, and OB surgeries as well.

I have it easy at the hospital were I am at. Some other students at Western start their days at 3 am and have 36 hour calls!!

On top of the long hours you have to keep reading. Not only reading about cases that you are currently seeing in your patients or in surgery, but also keeping up with the podiatry stuff.

This may sound intimidating, but it sure beats the classroom!!!

Anyways, that's what 3rd year looks like from my perspective. Busy and hard -but it's a blast.

Welcome to residency!!

And then, if you're lucky, practice can be just as busy and just as rewarding.

 

[NoStress]

From my prospective so far, I would say 3rd year is not the easiest from any stretch.

I showed up to my first day of Internal Medicine to find that I was scheduled for a 30 hour call starting right then. I had to work the following Sunday, and then Monday I had another 30 hour call. Most days start at 6 am and finish 6 pm and I work one day every weekend. It's long hours, but it is a ton of fun and a great learning experience. I am assigned to a team of 3 other med students, 2 interns, and 2 attendings. Everyone knows I am a podiatry student, but I am expected to be at par with the regular med students as far as my medicine knowledge goes and I am given the same liberties to decide patient care as anyone else. I am responsible to know absolutely everything about my patients and know what orders to put through.

Last month I had general surgery. I would get up at 4 am, be at the hospital at 6 am doing my pre-rounds and be back home at 7:30 pm, eat and then go straight to bed. No life, but I was able to scrub into some pretty cool surgeries and be first assist in a lot of them. I even got to scrub into some nuero, urology, and OB surgeries as well.

I have it easy at the hospital were I am at. Some other students at Western start their days at 3 am and have 36 hour calls!!

On top of the long hours you have to keep reading. Not only reading about cases that you are currently seeing in your patients or in surgery, but also keeping up with the podiatry stuff.

This may sound intimidating, but it sure beats the classroom!!!

Anyways, that's what 3rd year looks like from my perspective. Busy and hard -but it's a blast.

I can't wait for this!😍

 

[air bud]

From my prospective so far, I would say 3rd year is not the easiest from any stretch.

I showed up to my first day of Internal Medicine to find that I was scheduled for a 30 hour call starting right then. I had to work the following Sunday, and then Monday I had another 30 hour call. Most days start at 6 am and finish 6 pm and I work one day every weekend. It's long hours, but it is a ton of fun and a great learning experience. I am assigned to a team of 3 other med students, 2 interns, and 2 attendings. Everyone knows I am a podiatry student, but I am expected to be at par with the regular med students as far as my medicine knowledge goes and I am given the same liberties to decide patient care as anyone else. I am responsible to know absolutely everything about my patients and know what orders to put through.

Last month I had general surgery. I would get up at 4 am, be at the hospital at 6 am doing my pre-rounds and be back home at 7:30 pm, eat and then go straight to bed. No life, but I was able to scrub into some pretty cool surgeries and be first assist in a lot of them. I even got to scrub into some nuero, urology, and OB surgeries as well.

I have it easy at the hospital were I am at. Some other students at Western start their days at 3 am and have 36 hour calls!!

On top of the long hours you have to keep reading. Not only reading about cases that you are currently seeing in your patients or in surgery, but also keeping up with the podiatry stuff.

This may sound intimidating, but it sure beats the classroom!!!

Anyways, that's what 3rd year looks like from my perspective. Busy and hard -but it's a blast.

Are you doing any small group meetings? or purely clinical?

 

[darazon]

Are you doing any small group meetings? or purely clinical?

Every Wednesday afternoon we have a didactic session for a couple of hours. Everyone conferences in for it. That's it, the rest is completely clinical.