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[Marzapan]

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[Passion4Sci]

Hi all- It seems to me like, at least admissions-wise, everyone seems to be concerned with their gpa, pharmacy/research experience, and interviewing skills. I was wondering, however, what the importance of graduating from a prestigious school means. Everyone talks about how graduating from a prestigious university is a huge plus, but in terms of admissions to pharmacy school, do you really get a big advantage? (Would an applicant from, say, UC Berkeley with a 3.0 gpa have an advantage over someone who went to "some college" with a 3.5?) I apologize if this has been asked before, but it seems to me like a lot of the people who create chance/help threads don't mention the university that they attended; I'm sure that the school one attended for their undergraduate degree matters too, right?

it matters, but I think "University X" @ 3.5 is > CAL @ 3.0.

 

[ieatkimbap]

well that sucks. shouldn't they consider the fact that prestigious schools are more academically demanding and thus be more lenient on gpa as well as e.c. involvement (after all, one will need to spend more time studying at a prestigious university as opposed to a cc/some college)?

Do you go to a school that gives numberical grades? I go to UW and our numerical grades (3.5 in a certain class for example) get pretty inflated through pharmcas. Like a 3.8 on our transcript will be rounded to a 4.0. I think this definitely accounts for going to a school like UW versus someone who goes to cc/"some college".

 

[Tinkerbell22]

It seems like most top universities use the A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C, system. I'm sure there are some who use numerical, pass/fail, or other methods, but from what most people say here it seems like the traditional method is used.

Using the traditional method, no one really gets an advantage on PharmCAS because they round the exact same way as the schools usually do. (A=4.0 A- = 3.7 B+ = 3.3 etc)

There are going to be people mad at me for saying this, but in my opinion the biggest issue is the fact that you can do 2 years at so and so community college and have your GPA weighted up against someone who did 4 years at a major research university.

I agree with P4sci that a 3.5 is going to look better than a 3.0 no matter where you go, but when it comes down to minor discrepancies and evaluating the whole package... I think the school should matter, but I'm not sure if it actually does.

Edit>>> From what I hear, University of Florida actually does care what school you attended. They give preference to in-state residents, but also to UF graduates because UF is one of the best undergrads in Florida and they know the curriculum is rigorous.

 

[evilolive]

it matters, but I think "University X" @ 3.5 is > CAL @ 3.0.

Well it is hard to get a 3.0 at Cal... just saying.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Well it is hard to get a 3.0 at Cal... just saying.

"Hard" is such a relative term and the definition of which is extremely negotiable.

 

[evilolive]

"Hard" is such a relative term and the definition of which is extremely negotiable.

true, but there are few places where you'd experience such competition from people not only trying to run you over, but professors too.

 

[phathead]

well that sucks. shouldn't they consider the fact that prestigious schools are more academically demanding and thus be more lenient on gpa as well as e.c. involvement (after all, one will need to spend more time studying at a prestigious university as opposed to a cc/some college)?

How do you know 'prestigious' schools are more academically rigorous? Have you taken classes at wide range of schools? Because that is an EXTREMELY elitist tone right there.

I would take the knowledge that I've acquired at 'some college' and place it against your 'prestigious' knowledge.

I hope you drop your attitude before you get into pharmacy school.

 

[mmmcaramel]

I have always wondered about the role of university prestige in graduate admissions.

I go to Berkeley and have a 3.2 (for purposes of comparison, I was ranked in the top 1% of 200 student high school class and earned all A's in the 20 units I've taken at a community college). In my opinion (and that of many other pre-health Cal students), Berkeley offers very rigorous and challenging bio/chem/physics courses. However, it's true - "hard" is subjective; I have a few very bright friends who breezed through the same pre med classes and have 3.7's.

Yet, statistically, Cal graduates are accepted into professional and grad schools with relatively low GPAs. http://students.berkeley.edu/files/Admissions/12626_6.PreMed.pdf states that "In 2007, approximately 77 percent of senior applicants who obtained
an overall GPA of at least a 3.4, and obtained a total MCAT score of 30 or higher, were admitted to a medical school"

So, although many on this forum boast much higher GPAs (3.5, 3.7, etc) for pharmacy school, I hope that fellow Cal students and those from other prestigious universities are not disheartened when they apply. Most of us have worked very hard and I believe, have been nicely prepared for graduate work! 🙂 And of course, I mean no disrespect to those with great GPA's!

 

[kmoogs]

How do you know 'prestigious' schools are more academically rigorous? Have you taken classes at wide range of schools? Because that is an EXTREMELY elitist tone right there.

I would take the knowledge that I've acquired at 'some college' and place it against your 'prestigious' knowledge.

I hope you drop your attitude before you get into pharmacy school.

I don't think it's really an attitude ... there's a small bit of truth to everything everyone's brought up in this thread so far.

From my personal experiences, I've taken coursework at a wide variety of schools. A couple community colleges, a 'prestigious' school "ranked" in the top 20's by that ridiculous USnews report, another 'prestigious' school ranked in top 2 for my graduate degree. I've also spent time as a TA for various classes and noticed a few things about the different institutions.

In terms of coursework being hard or easy to achieve that 'A' everyone desires, it is really a toss up that depends more on the professor than the institution.... BUT ... I found in general the material taught at the community college level to be easier, taught at a slower pace, and the grading policies more lenient. At the more 'prestigious' schools, it's more about surrounding yourself with others that will push yourself harder, and in turn you drive them harder as well. Some classes are more cut throat and others foster a more cooperative environment; it is really up to the professor and not the school's name.

There are exceptions to everything. It also depends on the student themselves. It is up to the student to make the most out of the education and knowledge in front of them. At the more 'prestigious' schools, there are more opportunities to network, gain access to certain facilities, and entry into research institutions or hospitals that most other people would find difficult to gain access to. For example, through my human physiology class in undergrad, I was able to network and gain access to a research lab through the professor. I then spent time in the lab until I graduated working on independent research projects... which then contributed to research experience and a source for a letter of rec. In grad school, half my professors owned biotech startup companies. One grad student went on to work at his former advisor's company.

One thing I'd like to stress is networking. Surrounding yourself and networking with the right people will open up doors that you would have never even looked at. You save money at community colleges but loose out on connections that could have been made throughout your educational experience.

In terms of straight up GPA comparisons. I don't think its really that big of a deal. Its all situational and varies from professor to professor. If admission committees started looking into each professor's grading policies ... well that would take forever 😡

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I have always wondered about the role of university prestige in graduate admissions.

I go to Berkeley and have a 3.2 (for purposes of comparison, I was ranked in the top 1% of 200 student high school class and earned all A's in the 20 units I've taken at a community college). In my opinion (and that of many other pre-health Cal students), Berkeley offers very rigorous and challenging bio/chem/physics courses. However, it's true - "hard" is subjective; I have a few very bright friends who breezed through the same pre med classes and have 3.7's.

Yet, statistically, Cal graduates are accepted into professional and grad schools with relatively low GPAs. http://students.berkeley.edu/files/Admissions/12626_6.PreMed.pdf states that "In 2007, approximately 77 percent of senior applicants who obtained
an overall GPA of at least a 3.4, and obtained a total MCAT score of 30 or higher, were admitted to a medical school"

So, although many on this forum boast much higher GPAs (3.5, 3.7, etc) for pharmacy school, I hope that fellow Cal students and those from other prestigious universities are not disheartened when they apply. Most of us have worked very hard and I believe, have been nicely prepared for graduate work! 🙂 And of course, I mean no disrespect to those with great GPA's!

I agree... if you go to a school that has a lot of pre-professional students and that school is known for getting kids into good medical/pharmacy/dental/etc programs then your courses are going to be harder, period.

I had classmates who are at Ivy League medical and dental programs right now... not trying to sound elitist, but I know for a fact that the classes I had with them, and competed with them for the few A's given out, were more rigorous than science classes I took post-bac at a local, recently-turned 4 year school (previously a very good CC).

I know some people are going to hate me, but I feel like some schools just don't prepare kids enough. Not all CC's are like this, but I know some schools in particular that are known for 'hand holding'. If you go to a school that isn't geared towards getting kids into professional/graduate school, sometimes they will water down the material or lower the curve so a more representative percentage of students will get A's B's etc.

I have seen first hand students with high GPAs who try and take the PCAT and can't crack the 50 percentile. Yeah some people aren't great at standardized tests, but the majority of the information on the PCAT is not 'tricky'. I thought it was really up front, and anyone who has a strong background in the sciences and well rounded general education courses (good English professors, lots of writing practice, etc) should be able to pass that thing.

 

[evilolive]

How do you know 'prestigious' schools are more academically rigorous? Have you taken classes at wide range of schools? Because that is an EXTREMELY elitist tone right there.

I would take the knowledge that I've acquired at 'some college' and place it against your 'prestigious' knowledge.

I hope you drop your attitude before you get into pharmacy school.

I have, and I've seen a wide difference. That being said, there are plenty of anecdotes that show that there are community college classes that are taught by professors at great universities. What we can conclude from these two conflicting notions is that there is a reliable consistency of rigorous classes at typically more "prestigious" institutions. Expectations are usually greater when the class is seen as more capable. Harvard on average churns out fewer idiots than your normal school, no?

 

[kmoogs]

Yet, statistically, Cal graduates are accepted into professional and grad schools with relatively low GPAs. http://students.berkeley.edu/files/Admissions/12626_6.PreMed.pdf states that "In 2007, approximately 77 percent of senior applicants who obtained
an overall GPA of at least a 3.4, and obtained a total MCAT score of 30 or higher, were admitted to a medical school"

You can also look at the statistics this way (glass half empty)... A majority of the people with a 3.4 were rejected and accounted for a large percentage of the 23% that were not admitted.

Just taking a quick look at the Cal graduating statistics (only GPA) ... in 2008, 45% of the people graduating with 3.4-3.59 GPA were admitted to medical schools compared to 74% and 67% of the 3.9+ and 3.8-3.89 respectively.

Similar trend in the 2007 stats with a spike in the 3.9+ range, 45% for 3.4-3.59, 90% and 67% for 3.9+ and 3.8-3.89 GPAs.

 

[Passion4Sci]

My only contribution to this past my initial one is that there was a lot of grade padding and coddling at Stanford. After all, you wouldn't want to upset little Johnny when his parents are paying a fortune, right?

There were extreme instances of preferential treatment and such across all classes. Indeed, preferential treatment/nepotism is a reality in EVERY school, but in my vast experience in 11 years of college in 3 different states, I have never experienced such widespread examples of it.

My GPA actually went down when I started at UCD, because I was unaccustomed to the no extra-credit, no-second-chances nature of that university as opposed to Stanford.

Just my $.02.

 

[phathead]

You can also look at the statistics this way (glass half empty)... A majority of the people with a 3.4 were rejected and accounted for a large percentage of the 23% that were not admitted.

Just taking a quick look at the Cal graduating statistics (only GPA) ... in 2008, 45% of the people graduating with 3.4-3.59 GPA were admitted to medical schools compared to 74% and 67% of the 3.9+ and 3.8-3.89 respectively.

Similar trend in the 2007 stats with a spike in the 3.9+ range, 45% for 3.4-3.59, 90% and 67% for 3.9+ and 3.8-3.89 GPAs.

GPAs aren't always reflective of what you know though, that's why you have the MCATs and the PCATs.

Look at my GPA. I mean my cGPA is 2.9 and my sciGPA is 2.67. Yet I scored in the 94th percentile on the PCAT.

You can't look solely at that type of thing and determine whether or not a program is hard or whether that student is not worthy of admission.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

My only contribution to this past my initial one is that there was a lot of grade padding and coddling at Stanford. After all, you wouldn't want to upset little Johnny when his parents are paying a fortune, right?

There were extreme instances of preferential treatment and such across all classes. Indeed, preferential treatment/nepotism is a reality in EVERY school, but in my vast experience in 11 years of college in 3 different states, I have never experienced such widespread examples of it.

My GPA actually went down when I started at UCD, because I was unaccustomed to the no extra-credit, no-second-chances nature of that university as opposed to Stanford.

Just my $.02.

Wow well I guess it just does depend. I never went to an Ivy League undergrad... just a regular decent research university, but we were never allowed extra credit or second chances. If you failed an exam you were effed. No matter how well you did on the other exams, whether you complained, etc. I would say about 80-90 percent of our professors even told us in the syllabus specifically not to even ask for extra credit. I only had one professor who allowed for a week extension on a paper deadline if you had extenuating circumstances... but this was a woman and gender studies course I took as an elective.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Wow well I guess it just does depend. I never went to an Ivy League undergrad... just a regular decent research university, but we were never allowed extra credit or second chances. If you failed an exam you were effed. No matter how well you did on the other exams, whether you complained, etc. I would say about 80-90 percent of our professors even told us in the syllabus specifically not to even ask for extra credit. I only had one professor who allowed for a week extension on a paper deadline if you had extenuating circumstances... but this was a woman and gender studies course I took as an elective.

It does depend... a lot. But at least at Stanford, grade padding was very common. Easily as much as I saw leniency at CC. UC Davis was a total wake-up call in a sense.

Perhaps there is an element of entitlement as well, you know, as UC Davis is a land-grant school whereas Stanford and other Ivys exist solely on money from benefactors, alumni, and such.

Law schools, from what my wife's been learning, only consider undergraduate reputation when there's a lack of other "softs", or when they're closely comparing two very similar candidates, but one went to Yale where one went to UF or another low-ranked school. I do wonder, then, if pharmacy is much the same. So far, no one's even mentioned my degree from Stanford.

INdividual experiences can vary between quarters/semesters, years, by subject, etc... it's almost random and therefore, IMO, it really doesn't matter besides the "WOW" factor of the translucent cardinal on my diploma.

 

[UES Girl]

3.0 from UC Berkeley is still 3.0. It will not outweigh a 3.7 from or a 3.5 From Scaramento State for example.

 

[Passion4Sci]

3.0 from UC Berkeley is still 3.0. It will not outweigh a 3.7 from or a 3.5 From Scaramento State for example.

I know you didn't mean to, but that is just SO appropriate of a typo. 😉

 

[SHC1984]

I know you didn't mean to, but that is just SO appropriate of a typo. 😉

awwww....is that a picture of you Passion? hehe...

 

[Passion4Sci]

awwww....is that a picture of you Passion? hehe...

Yes... so was the last one... LOL.

 

[SHC1984]

Hi all- It seems to me like, at least admissions-wise, everyone seems to be concerned with their gpa, pharmacy/research experience, and interviewing skills. I was wondering, however, what the importance of graduating from a prestigious school means. Everyone talks about how graduating from a prestigious university is a huge plus, but in terms of admissions to pharmacy school, do you really get a big advantage? (Would an applicant from, say, UC Berkeley with a 3.0 gpa have an advantage over someone who went to "some college" with a 3.5?) I apologize if this has been asked before, but it seems to me like a lot of the people who create chance/help threads don't mention the university that they attended; I'm sure that the school one attended for their undergraduate degree matters too, right?

Undergrad matters to the high rank schools and schools that don't require standardize exams....I mean how else is UCSF pharmacy going to pick 100 people out of thousands without a standardize exam?

Obviously they are going to favor the people from name brand schools like Stanford over the public universities. 3.5 from Stanford is worth a lot more than say a 4.0 GPA from a regular public university.

Even schools that require standardize exams look at undergrad colleges! Most of my classmates at Columbia went to Cornell, UPenn, Georgetown, Duke, Yale and Harvard etc....I was pretty much the only person that went to a regular everyday average public university...however I got lucky in that I did extremely well on the DAT and got accepted b/c of that. If Columbia didn't require a standardize exam I am sure to get reject b/c my undergrad wasn't Ivy league or highly ranked...so undergraduate name matters a lot for high rank schools...especially ones that do not use standardize exams.

If your GPA was from Stanford you would be fine for sure. 😉

 

[SHC1984]

Yes... so was the last one... LOL.

The last one was too small...couldn't see your face! lol...

 

[UES Girl]

3.5 from Stanford is worth a lot more than say a 4.0 GPA from a regular public university.

That's exactly what I disagree about, there isn't some magical inflation that says because you went to a prestigious school your low GPA is suddenly worth more than it should be. A low GPA is what it is, a low GPA, be from Harvard, Berkeley or San Jose State .

A 3.5 from Berkeley is maybe worth more than 3.5 from Sac State, but it's not worth more than the 4.0 from a State School. Strong applicants from a mediocre school have a waaaaay better chance IMO than an average applicant from a prestigious school. Adcoms members here aren't blind (some are probably graduates of the Cal State system themselves given how we have some faculty from Cal State system) and know that UC and Berkeley professors tend to teach at State schools part time.

As for UCSF: SCH I respect you and like you a lot, but you seem to have sooo many misconceptions about the school. They don't look for numbers here ! They look for community service and heavily involved individuals. They want humanitarians with accomplishments. That's why even with 3.0 OP still could have a chance, granted the rest of his application is extraordinary.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

It does depend... a lot. But at least at Stanford, grade padding was very common. Easily as much as I saw leniency at CC. UC Davis was a total wake-up call in a sense.

Perhaps there is an element of entitlement as well, you know, as UC Davis is a land-grant school whereas Stanford and other Ivys exist solely on money from benefactors, alumni, and such.

Law schools, from what my wife's been learning, only consider undergraduate reputation when there's a lack of other "softs", or when they're closely comparing two very similar candidates, but one went to Yale where one went to UF or another low-ranked school. I do wonder, then, if pharmacy is much the same. So far, no one's even mentioned my degree from Stanford.

INdividual experiences can vary between quarters/semesters, years, by subject, etc... it's almost random and therefore, IMO, it really doesn't matter besides the "WOW" factor of the translucent cardinal on my diploma.

Heeey UF is not that low! It's ranked up there with UCD! LOL Just kidding I didn't even go to UF. 😀

 

[Ayemageyene]

Sounds the same as if you were to go from high school to college. Not sure how it is for other states but in Colorado, before I wanted to go to pharmacy school, colleges only looked at the numbers and didn't necessarily take into account the level of the class. Basically if took all regular level classes and got A's and B's, I'd be a little above someone who got B's and C's, even D's, on their full AP/IB 7-8 period schedule. They looked at trends too; They looked at if you started good but finished worse or you started out worse but did better through the years.

Their "excuse" for not really taking into account the level of classes as they should is that "students should be able to gauge their own learning levels; one should be able to tell if a class is too hard or their schedule is too much for themselves and vice versa". I wanted to tell the college representative "thanks; that would have been nice to know at the start of middle school". And here he was telling the class of 2008 such information in our junior year of high school. Huge disappointment.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I dunno... Our high school was different in Florida... We had weighted GPAs for college level courses like AP. Also the schools could plainly see it was a higher level course so they could make a judgement between an A in one class versus a B in a 'harder' class. With colleges, everyone is supposed to be on the same level so there's really no way to determine the difference between a general biology or organic chemistry at one school compared with the exact course at another school

 

[SHC1984]

That's exactly what I disagree about, there isn't some magical inflation that says because you went to a prestigious school your low GPA is suddenly worth more than it should be. A low GPA is what it is, a low GPA, be from Harvard, Berkeley or San Jose State .

A 3.5 from Berkeley is maybe worth more than 3.5 from Sac State, but it's not worth more than the 4.0 from a State School. Strong applicants from a mediocre school have a waaaaay better chance IMO than an average applicant from a prestigious school. Adcoms members here aren't blind (some are probably graduates of the Cal State system themselves given how we have some faculty from Cal State system) and know that UC and Berkeley professors tend to teach at State schools part time.

As for UCSF: SCH I respect you and like you a lot, but you seem to have sooo many misconceptions about the school. They don't look for numbers here ! They look for community service and heavily involved individuals. They want humanitarians with accomplishments. That's why even with 3.0 OP still could have a chance, granted the rest of his application is extraordinary.

I like you a lot too Chebs! 😍 I was only using UCSF as an example. It just seems very diffcult for a school to choose 100 applicants out of thousands to accept base only on subjective measures. So my guess would be the undergraduate college name being MORE important for schools that do not use any sort of standardize exams. Otherwise it would be rather diffcult to compare and tell who is better and who is not. Yes, you are right...besides name of undergraduate college...research experience/publications and leadership positions would also be a huge factor I am sure. Being the president of a million clubs and being published in articles always look good on applications! LOL...

I wasn't trying to put down people from public universities...I went to undergrad at a public university! LOL...But I realize that it is easier to get good grades there. I graduated with a 3.9 GPA...if I finished my undergrad degree at Harvard I HIGHLY DOUBT I could get that same GPA! I would be competing against smarter people so my chances of being at the top would be lower and hence I would have a lower GPA. The exams there would also be more diffcult too I am sure.

However any GPA below a 3.0 would be bad...doesn't matter where it is from...but a GPA of say 3.2 to 3.4 is still respectable if it's from a higher ranked college...IMO. Everything in this thread is an opinion...whether a 4.0 student from an lower tier school can get accepted over a 3.4 student from a Ivy league school is something only an admission committee member would know! I am just saying that it is harder to get a higher gpa at some colleges vs. another.

 

[Ayemageyene]

I dunno... Our high school was different in Florida... We had weighted GPAs for college level courses like AP. Also the schools could plainly see it was a higher level course so they could make a judgement between an A in one class versus a B in a 'harder' class. With colleges, everyone is supposed to be on the same level so there's really no way to determine the difference between a general biology or organic chemistry at one school compared with the exact course at another school

Yeah, it was a huge disappointment as you can expect. I had 8 IB (similar to AP) classes during both of my junior year and senior year of high school (where 7 classes is the maximum for any student). Then I hear I'm "on the same level or maybe a bit lower" because I "should have been able to gauge my learning level". 🙂 I'm glad I didn't bother with those colleges.

 

[nicolemsm]

Yeah, it was a huge disappointment as you can expect. I had 8 IB (similar to AP) classes during both of my junior year and senior year of high school (where 7 classes is the maximum for any student). Then I hear I'm "on the same level or maybe a bit lower" because I "should have been able to gauge my learning level". 🙂 I'm glad I didn't bother with those colleges.

Hey me too...... another IB nerd. rxlea and I went to the same school... I took 8 IB classes my junior year. Then I took on ten extra regular classes (outside of my IB coursework) to graduate early. I did fairly well in IB (not to brag, but all A's....) and straight A's in my extra 10 classes. High school holds no weight to college IMO. None at all...... High school is the minors college is the majors.

I'd just like to add, I went to an IB school where it was constantly pushed "you should apply yourself, go to the Harvard, Yale, Ivies, blah blah blah..." Sure a lot of people in my graduating class applied to those college, but sure many didn't get in. Sad fact, even with an "IB/AP" education doesn't mean you'll be able to get into those schools. I would have been better off taking regular on level courses getting straight A's 4.0ing it up vs my 3.53 IB/ Honors/ AP education (with a year early graduation). I blame myself for not applying to those schools but by no means regret not going to a Stanford..... I'm happy with my community college education & full ride (paying me to go to school...) Honestly I don't think it should matter how much your education costs, where you've gone. Typically you're receiving the same education @ varied prices..... oh ya and anyone who says community college is for idiots... whatever.... I know some pretty damn smart people who'd much rather get a free education vs. 80k in UNDERGRAD debt for a stupid degree even more worthless than the paper it's printed on. Some of the teachers @ my school are adjuncts @ the big universities so I know I'm receiving an equivalent non watered down education with a damn good GPA tagged onto it too. Holla @ my 3.8 😛

 

[Ayemageyene]

Hey me too...... another IB nerd. rxlea and I went to the same school... I took 8 IB classes my junior year. Then I took on ten extra regular classes (outside of my IB coursework) to graduate early. I did fairly well in IB (not to brag, but all A's....) and straight A's in my extra 10 classes. High school holds no weight to college IMO. None at all...... High school is the minors college is the majors.

I'd just like to add, I went to an IB school where it was constantly pushed "you should apply yourself, go to the Harvard, Yale, Ivies, blah blah blah..." Sure a lot of people in my graduating class applied to those college, but sure many didn't get in. Sad fact, even with an "IB/AP" education doesn't mean you'll be able to get into those schools. I would have been better off taking regular on level courses getting straight A's 4.0ing it up vs my 3.53 IB/ Honors/ AP education (with a year early graduation). I blame myself for not applying to those schools but by no means regret not going to a Stanford..... I'm happy with my community college education & full ride (paying me to go to school...) Honestly I don't think it should matter how much your education costs, where you've gone. Typically you're receiving the same education @ varied prices..... oh ya and anyone who says community college is for idiots... whatever.... I know some pretty damn smart people who'd much rather get a free education vs. 80k in UNDERGRAD debt for a stupid degree even more worthless than the paper it's printed on. Some of the teachers @ my school are adjuncts @ the big universities so I know I'm receiving an equivalent non watered down education with a damn good GPA tagged onto it too. Holla @ my 3.8 😛

Exactly; it was a waste of time if anyone took such classes to get a better looking college application. Besides that, with IB, I should have known better. In Colorado, IB isn't as sustained throughout Colorado (at least when I was in high school two years ago) as AP so we had less schools in state that recognized the IB program. It would have been better for my future if I only stayed with regular classes and maintained my 4.0 instead of chipping that away in an IB program. Yay for being the first geuinie pigs for my high school's newly established IB program. I will not make the same mistake again applying to newly founded pharmacy schools.

 

[nicolemsm]

Exactly; it was a waste of time if anyone took such classes to get a better looking college application. Besides that, with IB, I should have known better. In Colorado, IB isn't as sustained throughout Colorado (at least when I was in high school two years ago) as AP so we had less schools in state that recognized the IB program. It would have been better for my future if I only stayed with regular classes and maintained my 4.0 instead of chipping that away in an IB program. Yay for being the first geuinie pigs for my high school's newly established IB program. I will not make the same mistake again applying to newly founded pharmacy schools.

Want to hear the gold awful truth? At my school IB had been around for numerous years... it was the FIRST IB program in the state of AZ and until 2009 (the year I graduated) is when the in state colleges started accepting IB credit. So basically you were **** out of luck for getting these credits accepted either way. If you go onto IBO there are some random colleges in like Florida and out of country who accept these credits YET,,,, YET i repeat none of the Harvard, Stanfords, etc. accepted them. And if they did "conditionally" you needed perfect scores on the test. Can you say JOKE? Yet AP credit was fully accepted w/ like 3s on the test. WTF? Can you say collegeboard is a joke. @##@%$#@%$#

So when I have kids, they're not doing honors, not doing AP, IB(international bull****), nothing. They'll be regular. Get involved, play sports, do clubs and not be wrapped around the books.


Isn't it outlandish how we were just test rats for this junk of a program?
👎thumbdown👎thumbdown👎thumbdown😴

I wish rxlea would chime in.

Oh yeah, did you get your IB diploma or "certificate"? At my school, they started offering the certificate b/c people were dropping out and didn't want to write the EE (let me say EASIEST ESSAY ever is what it should be called.... my advisor literally just said it's fine... don't edit it after my first draft write) or take TOK (theory of KRAP) lollll. Idk though I get so pissed I wasted my life in high school....

 

[Ayemageyene]

Want to hear the gold awful truth? At my school IB had been around for numerous years... it was the FIRST IB program in the state of AZ and until 2009 (the year I graduated) is when the in state colleges started accepting IB credit. So basically you were **** out of luck for getting these credits accepted either way. If you go onto IBO there are some random colleges in like Florida and out of country who accept these credits YET,,,, YET i repeat none of the Harvard, Stanfords, etc. accepted them. And if they did "conditionally" you needed perfect scores on the test. Can you say JOKE? Yet AP credit was fully accepted w/ like 3s on the test. WTF? Can you say collegeboard is a joke. @##@%$#@%$#

So when I have kids, they're not doing honors, not doing AP, IB(international bull****), nothing. They'll be regular. Get involved, play sports, do clubs and not be wrapped around the books.


Isn't it outlandish how we were just test rats for this junk of a program?
👎thumbdown👎thumbdown👎thumbdown😴

I wish rxlea would chime in.

Oh yeah, did you get your IB diploma or "certificate"? At my school, they started offering the certificate b/c people were dropping out and didn't want to write the EE (let me say EASIEST ESSAY ever is what it should be called.... my advisor literally just said it's fine... don't edit it after my first draft write) or take TOK (theory of KRAP) lollll. Idk though I get so pissed I wasted my life in high school....

Lol, when you think about it and then think about newly approved drugs, we're not that different from people taking newly approved drugs. =\ Except we're the future and they should know better than offering something they have no experience in UNLESS the high school hired experienced IB teachers. THEN maybe I wouldn't have thought my senior year was a JOKE.

I didn't get my IB diploma. Reason being after I got word from my anticipated colleges that they wouldn't fully recognize IB credits, I didn't even BOTHER doing the EE essay. I took the tests for all of my IB classes though and got my little certificate saying what scores I got on my tests. It's in a box somewhere in my house. I'm not even going to bother using it to get out of pre-req's when I apply for pre-pharmacy schools. Our teachers were really good teachers but they were almost on the same level as us on how IB does things. They weren't so familiar with how IB gave tests so they couldn't really teach us how to be prepared. My TOK essay was like writing to have JUST enough pages so that they might actually read it.

It's annoying for me; I look back and, besides high school being the worse four years of my life with my family making it all the worse, if only, just only I stayed with regular classes and kept my 4.0 and STILL have time to volunteer and join clubs, I could have at least maybe recognized I wanted to be a pharmacist. Then I might have had a chance of getting into a 0-6 program. If not that, maybe be HALF way with finishing my Bachelor's of Science. But no, I went along with my mother who pushed me to join IB. The bad thing is that being the guinea pigs for a new program was that they piled the work on us. That meant no volunteering outside of the required IB volunteer hours (I forget what it's called, it had three categories for different types of volunteering). Or really no real time to have a part time job and get work experience. I partially screwed myself over because I joined IB and indirectly let it eat up my life. It spat me back out and left me with the same knowledge and grade level as an average regular student.

Now I suffer when it comes to work experience and volunteer hours.

But back then I mentally wasn't ready to deal with another 4-6 years of high school. 🙂 As they say, college is just like high school, only with more challenging classes (depending on the person and the different classes, of course). However, my classmates who were doing IB with me really did get me through high school. Jeez, if I had to stick with slackers AND IB I'd drop out before I even signed up. Thankfully we all got along and we were the smart kids of our class.

"UB Dumb, IB Smart". LOL One of the MANY good memories I have. I still have my IB shirt because it's nice and long. It goes down and sits above my knees. My movie time shirt! We have the boring "IB leavin' but" on the front and on the back "IB back". Our IB coordinator wouldn't let us put "UB Dumb, IB Smart" on our shirts.

TL;DR: I wouldn't suggest any student to go to X or Y school so their application to another college or to a job "looks better" because in my opinion is it doesn't matter. At least for jobs and colleges in Colorado. 🙂 Unless you really want to learn, do yourself a favor.

Oh, as for college boards, systems always have a flaw. Unfortunately, the most noticeable flaws are found in school systems. That's why there are scholarships. At least that's one step in the right direction but there hasn't been much progress for the potentially good students.

 

[evilolive]

My only contribution to this past my initial one is that there was a lot of grade padding and coddling at Stanford. After all, you wouldn't want to upset little Johnny when his parents are paying a fortune, right?

There were extreme instances of preferential treatment and such across all classes. Indeed, preferential treatment/nepotism is a reality in EVERY school, but in my vast experience in 11 years of college in 3 different states, I have never experienced such widespread examples of it.

My GPA actually went down when I started at UCD, because I was unaccustomed to the no extra-credit, no-second-chances nature of that university as opposed to Stanford.

Just my $.02.

Every school like that coddles its students to some degree. It is a nepotistic understanding that once you made it through those gates, you had the potential to succeed and the school made an investment of you to represent it. What good would it do in taking too harsh an approach in failing out its own students? There are still standards though. Some schools like Cal thrive upon that concept of separating the wheat from the chaff so that competition will be the unbiased arbiter. There will always be the daddy trust funds that speak with dollar bills to make institutions look bad. There are also a lot of brilliant, hardworking people that resent the few duds that become strawmen for peoples' anger over financial inequality.

 

[nicolemsm]

Lol, when you think about it and then think about newly approved drugs, we're not that different from people taking newly approved drugs. =\ Except we're the future and they should know better than offering something they have no experience in UNLESS the high school hired experienced IB teachers. THEN maybe I wouldn't have thought my senior year was a JOKE.

I didn't get my IB diploma. Reason being after I got word from my anticipated colleges that they wouldn't fully recognize IB credits, I didn't even BOTHER doing the EE essay. I took the tests for all of my IB classes though and got my little certificate saying what scores I got on my tests. It's in a box somewhere in my house. I'm not even going to bother using it to get out of pre-req's when I apply for pre-pharmacy schools. Our teachers were really good teachers but they were almost on the same level as us on how IB does things. They weren't so familiar with how IB gave tests so they couldn't really teach us how to be prepared. My TOK essay was like writing to have JUST enough pages so that they might actually read it.

It's annoying for me; I look back and, besides high school being the worse four years of my life with my family making it all the worse, if only, just only I stayed with regular classes and kept my 4.0 and STILL have time to volunteer and join clubs, I could have at least maybe recognized I wanted to be a pharmacist. Then I might have had a chance of getting into a 0-6 program. If not that, maybe be HALF way with finishing my Bachelor's of Science. But no, I went along with my mother who pushed me to join IB. The bad thing is that being the guinea pigs for a new program was that they piled the work on us. That meant no volunteering outside of the required IB volunteer hours (I forget what it's called, it had three categories for different types of volunteering). Or really no real time to have a part time job and get work experience. I partially screwed myself over because I joined IB and indirectly let it eat up my life. It spat me back out and left me with the same knowledge and grade level as an average regular student.

Now I suffer when it comes to work experience and volunteer hours.

But back then I mentally wasn't ready to deal with another 4-6 years of high school. 🙂 As they say, college is just like high school, only with more challenging classes (depending on the person and the different classes, of course). However, my classmates who were doing IB with me really did get me through high school. Jeez, if I had to stick with slackers AND IB I'd drop out before I even signed up. Thankfully we all got along and we were the smart kids of our class.

"UB Dumb, IB Smart". LOL One of the MANY good memories I have. I still have my IB shirt because it's nice and long. It goes down and sits above my knees. My movie time shirt! We have the boring "IB leavin' but" on the front and on the back "IB back". Our IB coordinator wouldn't let us put "UB Dumb, IB Smart" on our shirts.

TL;DR: I wouldn't suggest any student to go to X or Y school so their application to another college or to a job "looks better" because in my opinion is it doesn't matter. At least for jobs and colleges in Colorado. 🙂 Unless you really want to learn, do yourself a favor.



Oh, as for college boards, systems always have a flaw. Unfortunately, the most noticeable flaws are found in school systems. That's why there are scholarships. At least that's one step in the right direction but there hasn't been much progress for the potentially good students.

+1.... i completely agree.

Btw may I ask how old you are?

I thought you were already in college taking pre-pharm credits... but I guess I was wrong lol


Oh yeah and the only thing good about IB I'd like to add was that my previous IB adviser at a drop of a dime has always written me LOR and sent info about me to my college or whatever I'm applying to. She's really the only good thing I have to say about the program LOL...

I like those sayings... my school's was I think therefore IB... so stupid. Not as funny as yours though.

 

[Ayemageyene]

+1.... i completely agree.

Btw may I ask how old you are?

I thought you were already in college taking pre-pharm credits... but I guess I was wrong lol


Oh yeah and the only thing good about IB I'd like to add was that my previous IB adviser at a drop of a dime has always written me LOR and sent info about me to my college or whatever I'm applying to. She's really the only good thing I have to say about the program LOL...

I like those sayings... my school's was I think therefore IB... so stupid. Not as funny as yours though.

🙂 Sure. I am 20 years old and I will be 21 in the fall of this year. It'd be SO NICE to be taking pre-pharmacy classes but life happened. I still mentally feel like I'm 18-19 years old though. At least now I'm prepared for the social environment in college now. 😀

Our IB coordinator/adviser was very nice, very compassionate, and very understanding. She knew a lot about us, remembered each detail, and understood our personal lives because we were really open with our lives. Unfortunately I don't ask her for LOR's because high school was the worse four years of my life; Even though she was someone who I'd love to have as a college professor for all my Pharm.D years, digging up my past hurts just as much as looking back.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

Hey me too...... another IB nerd. rxlea and I went to the same school... I took 8 IB classes my junior year. Then I took on ten extra regular classes (outside of my IB coursework) to graduate early. I did fairly well in IB (not to brag, but all A's....) and straight A's in my extra 10 classes. High school holds no weight to college IMO. None at all...... High school is the minors college is the majors.

I'd just like to add, I went to an IB school where it was constantly pushed "you should apply yourself, go to the Harvard, Yale, Ivies, blah blah blah..." Sure a lot of people in my graduating class applied to those college, but sure many didn't get in. Sad fact, even with an "IB/AP" education doesn't mean you'll be able to get into those schools. I would have been better off taking regular on level courses getting straight A's 4.0ing it up vs my 3.53 IB/ Honors/ AP education (with a year early graduation). I blame myself for not applying to those schools but by no means regret not going to a Stanford..... I'm happy with my community college education & full ride (paying me to go to school...) Honestly I don't think it should matter how much your education costs, where you've gone. Typically you're receiving the same education @ varied prices..... oh ya and anyone who says community college is for idiots... whatever.... I know some pretty damn smart people who'd much rather get a free education vs. 80k in UNDERGRAD debt for a stupid degree even more worthless than the paper it's printed on. Some of the teachers @ my school are adjuncts @ the big universities so I know I'm receiving an equivalent non watered down education with a damn good GPA tagged onto it too. Holla @ my 3.8 😛

If a student doesn't want to attend a 4 year school then by all means that's none of my business, but I personally wouldn't want to take any risks with my applications especially since some schools are, or are virtually requiring a degree now anyway. In general, most college bound high school students will try to attend the 'best' college they can afford with schoarships, etc.

Colleges do look at AP/honors/IB/Duel Enrollment. I graduated high school with 32 college credits and a 4.85 weighted GPA (4.0 non weighted). If it wasn't for those classes I probably never would have been able to attend my college of choice, or even my back up. I'm not saying high school performance is strongly indicative of how you will do in college, but it has a lot to do with where you can go and the scholarships you will get. I worked hard in high school so I could get a full scholarship to a university. The vast majority of undergrad students do not take out 80,000k in loans. How they decide to perform once in college is up to them.

No one said community college is for idiots, but you shouldn't imply that attending a university to get a bachelor's degree is an idiotic thing to do either. I don't look down upon anyone's decision to attend a CC for whatever personal or financial reasons they may cite, but I don't expect someone to think it's bad to want the 'college' experience either. There is a lot of experience, maturity, and preparation to be gained that I couldn't even fathom when I was 18 years old. I wouldn't trade that for the world.

As for the community colleges... no one should be ashamed if they never attended a highly ranked university... that is not what anyone is trying to say. There is a general concensus however, among people who have attended multiple schools that there is often a difference between 2 year schools and 'rigorous' universities. I've attended a private 4 year university, the former #1 CC in the nation which is now a 4-year city college, and a regular 2 year community college in my hometown. No one has to take my word for it, but there are a lot of pretty objective reasons why I think certain courses at certain schools are simply easier.

If nearly every single one of your classmates in general chem, general bio, orgo, physiology, neuroscience, genetics, etc are pre-med or some other pre-professional track then it's a given that everyone will be striving for the best grades possible. Pre-meds need a B+ to A+ average to ensure acceptance to a school. Not everyone can get an A, and those who do will have to work for it. There is no such thing as a curve where you can slack off and still get an A. Yes, the classes at CC's might be hard, and the professor might be the same guy teaching orgo at Brand Name U, but if you don't have 100 other pre-meds applying to schools like Columbia, UCSF, UCLA, Yale, UPenn, then you simply aren't going to face that type of grade competition. I've literally had professors tell me that they had to water down courses at certain schools because too many students weren't doing well. There was a large discrepency between the level of detail in the material covered and the percentages used in the grade cut offs to give the class an even distribution of A's B's C's etc. I personally know, and have read about people here, with great GPA's but they could barely crack the 50th percentile on the PCAT. I'm not bad at standardized tests, but the PCAT is not that hard! Yes... there are students who ace the PCAT after 2 years of coursework, but judgeing from the people who post their stats for us to read, high 80-90 percentile scoring often correlates with the additional preparation gained from taking upper level classes, regardless of GPA (considering it's still in the competitive range).

Just my humble opinion based on life experience and observation.

 

[kmoogs]

If a student doesn't want to attend a 4 year school then by all means that's none of my business, but I personally wouldn't want to take any risks with my applications especially since some schools are, or are virtually requiring a degree now anyway. In general, most college bound high school students will try to attend the 'best' college they can afford with schoarships, etc.

Colleges do look at AP/honors/IB/Duel Enrollment. I graduated high school with 32 college credits and a 4.85 weighted GPA (4.0 non weighted). If it wasn't for those classes I probably never would have been able to attend my college of choice, or even my back up. I'm not saying high school performance is strongly indicative of how you will do in college, but it has a lot to do with where you can go and the scholarships you will get. I worked hard in high school so I could get a full scholarship to a university. The vast majority of undergrad students do not take out 80,000k in loans. How they decide to perform once in college is up to them.

No one said community college is for idiots, but you shouldn't imply that attending a university to get a bachelor's degree is an idiotic thing to do either. I don't look down upon anyone's decision to attend a CC for whatever personal or financial reasons they may cite, but I don't expect someone to think it's bad to want the 'college' experience either. There is a lot of experience, maturity, and preparation to be gained that I couldn't even fathom when I was 18 years old. I wouldn't trade that for the world.

As for the community colleges... no one should be ashamed if they never attended a highly ranked university... that is not what anyone is trying to say. There is a general concensus however, among people who have attended multiple schools that there is often a difference between 2 year schools and 'rigorous' universities. I've attended a private 4 year university, the former #1 CC in the nation which is now a 4-year city college, and a regular 2 year community college in my hometown. No one has to take my word for it, but there are a lot of pretty objective reasons why I think certain courses at certain schools are simply easier.

If nearly every single one of your classmates in general chem, general bio, orgo, physiology, neuroscience, genetics, etc are pre-med or some other pre-professional track then it's a given that everyone will be striving for the best grades possible. Pre-meds need a B+ to A+ average to ensure acceptance to a school. Not everyone can get an A, and those who do will have to work for it. There is no such thing as a curve where you can slack off and still get an A. Yes, the classes at CC's might be hard, and the professor might be the same guy teaching orgo at Brand Name U, but if you don't have 100 other pre-meds applying to schools like Columbia, UCSF, UCLA, Yale, UPenn, then you simply aren't going to face that type of grade competition. I've literally had professors tell me that they had to water down courses at certain schools because too many students weren't doing well. There was a large discrepency between the level of detail in the material covered and the percentages used in the grade cut offs to give the class an even distribution of A's B's C's etc. I personally know, and have read about people here, with great GPA's but they could barely crack the 50th percentile on the PCAT. I'm not bad at standardized tests, but the PCAT is not that hard! Yes... there are students who ace the PCAT after 2 years of coursework, but judgeing from the people who post their stats for us to read, high 80-90 percentile scoring often correlates with the additional preparation gained from taking upper level classes, regardless of GPA (considering it's still in the competitive range).

Just my humble opinion based on life experience and observation.

Well said 👍.

I'd just like to make a note about the 80k debt topic. There is a lot of aid out there for people that want to attend that 4-year university/college of their dreams. You can go to community college first, finish off a lot of credits, transfer, and complete your degree for a fraction of the cost. Plus, there are tons of scholarships out there to help with tuition costs every year. There are also other options where tuition costs can be waived if you do 'X' for the university or work for 'Y' (TA, research, etc). I'm just speaking from personal experience ... I've attended a private school and public school with two degrees and I'm nowhere near 80k in debt, not even close to half that. Scholarships, TA'ing (tution waivers+salary), and research (advisor paid for a couple quarters of tuition).

I believe there is a difference between the aid available for 'professional' schools (JD, MD, MBA, PharmD) and 'academia' (B.S., M.S., Ph.D.)... but there are plenty of financial options out there if the '80k debt' is the only thing stopping you from pursuing a degree.

 

[evilolive]

For a surprising number of people, the cost in attending a school like Harvard may cost less than a public school.

 

[Passion4Sci]

For a surprising number of people, the cost in attending a school like Harvard may cost less than a public school.

So long as you can avoid paying the rent in Boston/Cambridge, holy moses.

 

[nicolemsm]

For a surprising number of people, the cost in attending a school like Harvard may cost less than a public school.

as long as you're black/mexican/minority...

EDIT: URM

 

[kmoogs]

as long as you're black/mexican/minority...

EDIT: URM

Not true... you can be an over-represented minority or over-represented MAJORITY and still find financial options. Harvard is absolutely HUGE on networking, you'd be surprised what kind of doors you open with a name like that... Hell, [side note] some of the pictures I posted in that random pre-pharmacy off topic thread (whatever it was called) came from the Harvard Club in Manhattan. If you know the right people or make connections with the right people, they'll make it happen. They got the $$$ to spare.

For the record, my private school cost less than my public school due to all the aid and options that were available.

 

[nicolemsm]

Not true... you can be an over-represented minority or over-represented MAJORITY and still find financial options. Harvard is absolutely HUGE on networking, you'd be surprised what kind of doors you open with a name like that... Hell, [side note] some of the pictures I posted in that random pre-pharmacy off topic thread (whatever it was called) came from the Harvard Club in Manhattan. If you know the right people or make connections with the right people, they'll make it happen. They got the $$$ to spare.

Eh not where I'm from. Sure knowing people will open doors, however when you're white, raised by a single parent blue collar worker, in the 0 EFC range and know basically NO people with any pull whatsoever I guess that really doesn't help. I've worked my butt off to get where I am now, and that may not be much to some people, but to me, it's been a very difficult journey. I've never had the option to go out and network b/c I'm trying to help my mom maintain a steady household and try to be there for my younger brother while she's working. I grew up with the mentality that I would be set if I worked hard and achieved great things in high school. That sure wasn't the case. I busted my butt trying to go above and beyond with a full schedule. I worked full time @ one point during my junior year and it was very difficult I'll admit, but I did it to make me stronger person and show myself I could handle it. I thought being involved avidly in community functions would help, it didn't.... Maybe I was doing all the wrong things, but with no guidance I kind of just had to find my way on my own. I know I'm not the only one that went through this, but at times I've felt everyone thinks things are handed to me "because I'm white". The race card works two ways. If I were to say something racist b/c someone's a URM I'd automatically get called out and lose my credibility/ respect/ scholarships/etc. However when I've been called out for being white and maintaining my GPA it's because I'm obviously sucking up to someone or bribing them.... I just don't get it. But I'll keep doing what I'm doing, it's virtually the only thing I CAN DO.

 

[kmoogs]

So long as you can avoid paying the rent in Boston/Cambridge, holy moses.

Haha yes. But the T makes it so convenient, just live out by Newton and take the T in to school. Prices arent so bad out there and there's still a good number of students around (closer to BC).

 

[kmoogs]

in the 0 EFC range

If that's the case then Harvard would be free for you. Anyone household under 60k income pays zip towards college costs. Their aid reaches all the way up to family incomes of 180k depending on circumstances

 

[kmoogs]

double posted somehow [delete]

 

[kmoogs]

And fyi nicolesm, since you mentioned Stanford earlier on... Stanford also gives free tuition to families w/ incomes of 100k or less. Free room and board included for those w/ under 60k income.

There's always ways around the money issue. If you ever have the dream of attending any of these schools, don't let costs hold you back. Once you're in, the schools with proper support in place will find a way to help you. You will be their investment. You will be their future (donations, prestige, future achievements, etc). They want you to succeed in your life and your career because you carry their brand, what you call a "stupid degree", with you forever. You win a Nobel prize? They will publicly claim you as their own!

Although ... this is my experience with privates. Public schools, on the other hand, dont seem to give a rats butt most of the time (limited funds/endowment, already cheap tuition) BUT there are ways to cover public school tuition as well... The point is, the money is out there if you need it. It doesn't matter if you are white, purple, green, blue, yellow, or brown. I've donated every year to my old private school to their general student scholarship fund. It may not be a large sum but every little bit helps. I was given the support I needed to get through school so in turn, I donate to help out future students. It saddens me a little when I hear bright kids giving up on applying to certain undergraduate schools because of preconceptions about tuition costs.

 

[kmoogs]

Want to hear the gold awful truth? At my school IB had been around for numerous years... it was the FIRST IB program in the state of AZ and until 2009 (the year I graduated) is when the in state colleges started accepting IB credit. So basically you were **** out of luck for getting these credits accepted either way. If you go onto IBO there are some random colleges in like Florida and out of country who accept these credits YET,,,, YET i repeat none of the Harvard, Stanfords, etc. accepted them. And if they did "conditionally" you needed perfect scores on the test. Can you say JOKE? Yet AP credit was fully accepted w/ like 3s on the test. WTF? Can you say collegeboard is a joke. @##@%$#@%$#

To my knowledge, 3's are not widely accepted ... off the top of my head I can only think of two instances at Stanford where an AP score of a 3 would be accepted for any type of course credit. In all other cases, scores of 4 or 5 are needed to receive credit. At another school in Cali, you need scores of 4 or 5 to receive credit, no exceptions. I don't know anything about the IB program so I can't comment on it.

***Sorry, can't sleep. 😴

 

[nicolemsm]

If that's the case then Harvard would be free for you. Anyone household under 60k income pays zip towards college costs. Their aid reaches all the way up to family incomes of 180k depending on circumstances

I understand that, however WHAT are the chances of making it to Harvard being from a WHITE blue collar family? I don't play sports, so I can't make the school any money being a collegiate athlete and boosting ticket sales, etc. It's all about money.... I sat down with a Princeton admissions person once with my IB counselor and they explained all of this to me, however she said that students are typically picked upon their FAFSA b/c they won't have to give X amount of money to so many people.... greedy greedy system.

And fyi nicolesm, since you mentioned Stanford earlier on... Stanford also gives free tuition to families w/ incomes of 100k or less. Free room and board included for those w/ under 60k income.

There's always ways around the money issue. If you ever have the dream of attending any of these schools, don't let costs hold you back. Once you're in, the schools with proper support in place will find a way to help you. You will be their investment. You will be their future (donations, prestige, future achievements, etc). They want you to succeed in your life and your career because you carry their brand, what you call a "stupid degree", with you forever. You win a Nobel prize? They will publicly claim you as their own!

Although ... this is my experience with privates. Public schools, on the other hand, dont seem to give a rats butt most of the time (limited funds/endowment, already cheap tuition) BUT there are ways to cover public school tuition as well... The point is, the money is out there if you need it. It doesn't matter if you are white, purple, green, blue, yellow, or brown. I've donated every year to my old private school to their general student scholarship fund. It may not be a large sum but every little bit helps. I was given the support I needed to get through school so in turn, I donate to help out future students. It saddens me a little when I hear bright kids giving up on applying to certain undergraduate schools because of preconceptions about tuition costs.

There's scholarships okay, but not always are they given to the less fortunate like me. There are others way below me, I understand so they'll see the money first, however I have yet to see a dime from one of these "whoa as you scholarships". All mine are Academic Based- Honors Scholarship (>3.5 GPA), being a young student- EGSG Grant, and my Pell Grant pays the rest of my tuition/books/etc. (That's for CC though). However if I went to a REAL (public- there's no way I could attend a private) university, it'd probably be difficult because I'd need to take out a loan to cover tuition, books... and I'm not even talking board. And there are typically stipulations w/ scholarships that you've needed to take X amount of credits @ the university before you can apply with the hundreds of others. The only way I could REALLY go to a university is by completing the honors program @ my CC and getting a full ride to one of my state universities for their honors program (that doesn't include board though)......grr

To my knowledge, 3's are not widely accepted ... off the top of my head I can only think of two instances at Stanford where an AP score of a 3 would be accepted for any type of course credit. In all other cases, scores of 4 or 5 are needed to receive credit. At another school in Cali, you need scores of 4 or 5 to receive credit, no exceptions. I don't know anything about the IB program so I can't comment on it.

***Sorry, can't sleep. 😴

Sorry my example was a bit off what I'm trying to say is many schools disregard IB credit for whatever reason. So kids who spent 4 yrs doing these programs aren't receiving the same benefit for taking the tests... yet IB is supposed to be "international level" so you'ld think b/c international standards are SO high they'd be accepted. 😕

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I was going to say the same thing about AP credit... Nearly every school will accept them, the only difference is that unlike public schools, private schools don't have to accept the bare minimum passing score. They will nearly always take a 4 or 5, but this isn't something you want to do with your pre reqs because you won't have a GPA for stuff like general bio, calc, etc. I got credit for these but I re took them in college to get an actual grade.