7 Publications for Plastic Surgery?

[OrangeCaramel]

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So You Want to Become a Plastic Surgeon? What You Need to Do and Know to Get into a Plastic Surgery Residency
Nagarkar, Purushottam M.D.; Pulikkottil, Benson M.D.; Patel, Anup M.B.A., M.D.; Rohrich, Rod J. M.D.http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsu...to_Become_a_Plastic_Surgeon__What_You.46.aspx
This 2013 article, written by physicians in an academic journal for plastic surgeons, says that the plastic surgery residency applicant has an average of 7 publications. That just seems like an impossible amount to have. Assuming that you didn't have any publications in undergrad, that means an applicant would have to have 2 publications per year in med school.

Can anybody give some insight on the truth of this statement?

 

[mimelim]

That is based on the Charting Outcomes document published by the NRMP. The latest of which can be found here:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

On page 239 you will find the summary statistics for Plastic Surgery. Average Step 1 score: 245, Step 2 score: 252, abstracts/presentations/publications: 12, % AOA: 49% etc.

 

[mimelim]

Something to keep in mind is that clinical research tends to move faster than basic science. It is not unusual for a medical student to have multiple publications in a year if they are trying to. Most of my pre-meds have their names on 3 or more things after the summer.

 

[Elixir6]

Whenever I see the "publication" bit in the NRMP stats I just wonder how it's possible. I have no idea what people are calling a publication or an abstract. As someone who has a few second pubs (1st and 2nd author), I agree with you that it seems rather excessive to me.

@mimelim - I would love to have been in your lab.

 

[Merely]

Damn, **** is getting ridiculous. Within 50 years the average pub number is going to be like 20 or something.

 

[Wordead]

It is becoming more the norm rather than the exception to do a year off of research, especially in the ultra competitive specialties.

I had 4 papers during M3 (only year I really did research), so it's certainly possible. I dont think I did anything particularly out of reach for anyone else. If you have no idea how to read or write a scientific paper you might need a little longer, but it's still doable.

 

[starstarie]

It is becoming more the norm rather than the exception to do a year off of research, especially in the ultra competitive specialties.

I had 4 papers during M3 (only year I really did research), so it's certainly possible. I dont think I did anything particularly out of reach for anyone else. If you have no idea how to read or write a scientific paper you might need a little longer, but it's still doable.

When did you find time to do research during MS3? Everyone I have talked to (even 2 plastic surgeons at my school, which is top 25) seemed to think it was crazy to be doing research during MS3...

I didn't seem to think it was all that crazy, so I am wondering logistically how to do it?

 

[mimelim]

When did you find time to do research during MS3? Everyone I have talked to (even 2 plastic surgeons at my school, which is top 25) seemed to think it was crazy to be doing research during MS3...

I didn't seem to think it was all that crazy, so I am wondering logistically how to do it?

How do you do research while a resident? Most people find it 'impossible', yet some work on top of their '80 hour' work week to do it.

 

[starstarie]

How do you do research while a resident? Most people find it 'impossible', yet some work on top of their '80 hour' work week to do it.

Yeah that's what I keep saying... life only gets busier as you go. it's so strange to me that all these people think it's outrageous

 

[masaraksh]

Now can you breakdown the reasons residents are piling on research? Is it that they want to be more competitive for fellowships, jobs, and get on better side of attendings? I have a hard time believing anyone working/training 80+hrs a week as a resident gives too many sh*%s about research

 

[Wordead]

When did you find time to do research during MS3? Everyone I have talked to (even 2 plastic surgeons at my school, which is top 25) seemed to think it was crazy to be doing research during MS3...

I didn't seem to think it was all that crazy, so I am wondering logistically how to do it?

I found time. Less of it during medicine, surgery, and L+D, but all the other rotations were not as time consuming. And when i was on call and nothing was going on I'd work on papers. It doesnt actually take that long if it's clinical research.

 

[Wordead]

Now can you breakdown the reasons residents are piling on research? Is it that they want to be more competitive for fellowships, jobs, and get on better side of attendings? I have a hard time believing anyone working/training 80+hrs a week as a resident gives too many sh*%s about research

If you want to stay in academics you have to publish. The rest of the reason you listed are all good reasons. Also, at my program if you have a poster (doesnt even have to be an oral presentation) you get all expenses paid for. So that conference in San Diego / Hawaii / etc....awww yuss.

And there's something to be said for advancing the knowledge within your field.

 

[masaraksh]

Fair enough - I'm not ragging on a resident choosing to do research for whatever purposes. Just trying to get an idea. All expenses trip sounds like a pretty sweet reward for marginally more work of making a poster/abstract.

Maybe I'm just jaded but I'd imaging that the type of pubs generated by a surg resident working 80+hrs a week are more likely to end up in the piles of case report and cohort crap no one really reads.

 

[TBV]

Id have to think that maybe they are lumping in the programs that require 2 years off for research into that 7 publication number. Like if you did a gen surgery and then get into plastics

 

[Iridescent]

Would this research have to be in plastic surgery? Is that better than having research in basic science?

 

[OrangeCaramel]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Very insightful. Special thanks to @mimelim for the link!

Id have to think that maybe they are lumping in the programs that require 2 years off for research into that 7 publication number. Like if you did a gen surgery and then get into plastics

The article I posted specifically says that the "7" refers to people who participated in match for the "integrated pathway" (i.e. people in gen surg). At least, that is what I understood.

Would this research have to be in plastic surgery? Is that better than having research in basic science?

Also have this question! Of course, one would probably mention their non-plastic surgery publications, especially if they are in prestigious journals.

 

[GadRads]

I was able to publish a first-author basic science/translational paper (now top 20 of most downloaded for the journal in the last 60 days, journal IP = 3.5 [flawed metric, I know]) and have 3 first-author published abstracts. I think I was also very lucky in having a great research group with good funding and ancillary support. I plan to publish another paper once 4th year comes around next month. One additional/personal advantage for me, I think, was doing a basic science graduate degree prior to med school.

 

[GadRads]

When did you find time to do research during MS3? Everyone I have talked to (even 2 plastic surgeons at my school, which is top 25) seemed to think it was crazy to be doing research during MS3...

I didn't seem to think it was all that crazy, so I am wondering logistically how to do it?

They are probably publishing case reports and retrospectives. It is extremely very rare to publish multiple basic papers as a med student, except MD/PhDs or those who take 1 or more yrs off. A good basic science paper in a decent journal doesn't come cheap; and for some basic science fields, with slower experimental turnover, time-to-publish is even longer.

 

[mimelim]

Now can you breakdown the reasons residents are piling on research? Is it that they want to be more competitive for fellowships, jobs, and get on better side of attendings? I have a hard time believing anyone working/training 80+hrs a week as a resident gives too many sh*%s about research

Of all residents in the US, the fraction of them doing research is relatively small. But, it depends on where you are. All of our residents are engaged in research during their clinical time. It is expected that if you chose to come to our program, you are going to be doing research. We have a dedicated research year (used to be two), but, in order to make real progress on a project, you need to do stuff during your clinical time. All of our surgeons trained in an era where working 100 hour weeks was normal and people lived int he ICU for 2-3 months at a time having their meals delivered, and were fired if they crossed the line on the floor at the door. (No, I'm not kidding, multiple of our faculty had their children born while they were in the ICU and weren't allowed to leave to see them.) It is hard to get a ton of sympathy from that group when it comes to doing research on 'your own time'. I'd like to think that everyone who interviews with us knows this coming in. We train academic surgeons. You are expected to be productive.

Fair enough - I'm not ragging on a resident choosing to do research for whatever purposes. Just trying to get an idea. All expenses trip sounds like a pretty sweet reward for marginally more work of making a poster/abstract.

Maybe I'm just jaded but I'd imaging that the type of pubs generated by a surg resident working 80+hrs a week are more likely to end up in the piles of case report and cohort crap no one really reads.

Most of why we do things in surgery is based on expert opinion, case series and retrospective analysis. It simply isn't feasible to do large randomized controlled trials for what we do. I presented at 5 meetings in the last year. All retrospective analysis of a high volume center. People care, a lot. They also start to know your name, especially when you publish on a small topic in a relatively small field. This is how recruiting works. I want to have a lot of options 3 years from now and this is ensuring that.