7 y.o. with Schizophrenia on Oprah

[Indryd]

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Suspect.

But seriously, doesn't look like any kid with schizophrenia I've ever come across. The few kids I've ever seen with true early onset schizophrenia were terrifying. They were like little aliens from an alternate universe. The little girl on Oprah just looks like a little brat who has had some bizarre behaviors enforced all her life.

I think the kid definitely has something wrong, but the biggest issue there is a crazy parent/kid behavior milieu.

Parents look waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy to happy to be on TV.

On youtube you can find a different video of her from the LA Times where she snowed to hell on thorazine. She looks more schizophrenic all wacked on thorazine then she does when she is "psychotic".

Dad on Oprah keeps trying to tell the story that she is on all these hardcore meds that would snow a grown man, that he swallowed 1/2 a pill and was stumbling around stuporous, yet if you watch the youtube vid the kid is CLEARLY totally snowed. Drooling and everything.

The one thing that makes me think twice is Dr. Deantonio so sincerely talking about her.

Would like to hear your thoughts if you've seen it.

 

[ClinPsycMasters]

Haven't seen it but I'm not a big of "schizophrenia" label for adults let alone children. And I really dislike this whole fame-at-any-price thing.

 

[Jack Napier]

There was actually a documentary on her on The Learning Channel (or one of the channels like that) when they were having "Psych week". Pretty interesting story. Her behavior started pretty much from birth. You can see in the documentary how much this disease has affected the family.

 

[snarfer]

Suspect.

But seriously, doesn't look like any kid with schizophrenia I've ever come across. The few kids I've ever seen with true early onset schizophrenia were terrifying. They were like little aliens from an alternate universe. The little girl on Oprah just looks like a little brat who has had some bizarre behaviors enforced all her life.

I think the kid definitely has something wrong, but the biggest issue there is a crazy parent/kid behavior milieu.

Parents look waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy to happy to be on TV.

On youtube you can find a different video of her from the LA Times where she snowed to hell on thorazine. She looks more schizophrenic all wacked on thorazine then she does when she is "psychotic".

Dad on Oprah keeps trying to tell the story that she is on all these hardcore meds that would snow a grown man, that he swallowed 1/2 a pill and was stumbling around stuporous, yet if you watch the youtube vid the kid is CLEARLY totally snowed. Drooling and everything.

The one thing that makes me think twice is Dr. Deantonio so sincerely talking about her.

Would like to hear your thoughts if you've seen it.

It's hard to say what her diagnosis is after watching just a few minutes of video. It has always been popular to blame mental health disorders on parents, society, or whatever but childhood onset schizophrenia does occur, however rarely, and is devastating. Psychiatrists often don't diagnose kids with Schizophrenia or start them on Clozapine and lithium without a lot of thoughts. Sometimes you do meet a few of these kids on acute inpatient units but these are a self selected group and are the exceptions, not the norm.

 

[loveoforganic]

I watched this as well. I didn't get the "alien" vibe from the one early onset schizophrenia patient I've encountered. He was just kind of spacey and low functioning, maybe a little socially inappropriate behavior mixed in there - wasn't actively psychotic though. It's hard to judge what behavior results from illness and what arises from the medications they're on. At any rate, none of the schizophrenia patients I've come across are as high intelligence as she seemed to be, but this is possibly due to the crappy circumstances they're in/were raised in.

 

[ClinPsycMasters]

Well, in any case, that diagnosis is crushing. It seems to be fairly reliable based on the studies I've looked at and the prognosis is so terribly poor and suicide rate frighteningly high. Hopefully we can replace schizophrenia with a better diagnostic label in the future, one that doesn't function as a catchall. Usually when I think of kids that age, I think pervasive developmental disorder or some neurologically based psychiatric problem.

 

[snarfer]

Well, in any case, that diagnosis is crushing. It seems to be fairly reliable based on the studies I've looked at and the prognosis is so terribly poor and suicide rate frighteningly high. Hopefully we can replace schizophrenia with a better diagnostic label in the future, one that doesn't function as a catchall. Usually when I think of kids that age, I think pervasive developmental disorder or some neurologically based psychiatric problem.

If you think about it further, all psychiatric disorders are 'neurologically' based as they are brain disorders manifesting themselves behaviorally. The neural circuitry is impaired which you can not see on structural neuroimaging. Aside from a few disorders, most of the neuro disordersdo not have objective findings. Most elderly patients have amyloid plaques, apoE proteins, frontotemporal or frontal parietal occipital atrophy on autopsy. They do not have DAT.

 

[snarfer]

I watched this as well. I didn't get the "alien" vibe from the one early onset schizophrenia patient I've encountered. He was just kind of spacey and low functioning, maybe a little socially inappropriate behavior mixed in there - wasn't actively psychotic though. It's hard to judge what behavior results from illness and what arises from the medications they're on. At any rate, none of the schizophrenia patients I've come across are as high intelligence as she seemed to be, but this is possibly due to the crappy circumstances they're in/were raised in.

Being spacey maybe due to residual symptoms or his medicine. However, was he banging his head to the wall, running out toward oncomign cars, or hearing voices to kill himself? These symptoms are worst. Being socially inappropriate is not a medicine side effect. When I meet these kids, reading the notes or talking to the doctors who diagnosed them initially often clarify why he/she was diagnosed. Parents are often well meaning and do the best they can but their past psychiatric history reporting are often erroneous.

 

[ClinPsycMasters]

If you think about it further, all psychiatric disorders are 'neurologically' based as they are brain disorders manifesting themselves behaviorally. The neural circuitry is impaired which you can not see on structural neuroimaging. Aside from a few disorders, most of the neuro disordersdo not have objective findings. Most elderly patients have amyloid plaques, apoE proteins, frontotemporal or frontal parietal occipital atrophy on autopsy. They do not have DAT.

reminds me of an article I read sometime ago about the benefits of merging psychiatry and neurology. Who should treat what illness seems almost arbitrary at times. John Doe raised in environment X presents with neurological "abnormality" Y and associated psychiatric "abnormality" Z. Chicken & egg problem when it comes to finding "root" cause.

 

[loveoforganic]

Being spacey maybe due to residual symptoms or his medicine. However, was he banging his head to the wall, running out toward oncomign cars, or hearing voices to kill himself? These symptoms are worst. Being socially inappropriate is not a medicine side effect. When I meet these kids, reading the notes or talking to the doctors who diagnosed them initially often clarify why he/she was diagnosed. Parents are often well meaning and do the best they can but their past psychiatric history reporting are often erroneous.

I was only commenting on my personal (read, nonprofessional) ability to see what was going on with the kid, and my personal inability to distinguish between everything he presented, as I didn't get to see him as a new admit. He was actually not too self destructive, but pretty prone to fights. As far as parents often being well meaning and trying their best... I guess I can't possibly know what it's like to be on their situation, so I'll reserve judgement, at least on most of them.

 

[snarfer]

reminds me of an article I read sometime ago about the benefits of merging psychiatry and neurology. Who should treat what illness seems almost arbitrary at times. John Doe raised in environment X presents with neurological "abnormality" Y and associated psychiatric "abnormality" Z. Chicken & egg problem when it comes to finding "root" cause.

Yes, I remember that article. I agree with you as there appears to be some overlap between psychiatry and neuro. However, we may find a cure for all psychiatric illnesses before neurologists and psychiatrists agree to merge with each other. 🙂

 

[Jack Napier]

She was diagnosed at UCLA's child psychiatry unit...after being refered there from a private child psychiatrist. They didn't know what was going on for a long time. It was a good documentary, I recommend it if you can find it.

Devastating to the family. They had to live in two separate apartments so they could keep their other child away from her because they didn't trust her not to hurt him. Talk about marital strain.

 

[whopper]

I had a patient on my unit last year who called famous celebrities, asking them to do benefit work for her, on the claim she was severely mentally ill. She even had a genetic disorder that made her look cute.

She was severely mentally ill.
It's called Factitious disorder.

And as for her mother, the mother had...

Munchausen's by Proxy.

I came to the conclusion that the mother had plenty to do with the daughter developing factitious disorder. The mother did several things that made it clear she was working on an angle.

In this case on Oprah, to be fair, we really don't know what is going on, and perhaps there are good things with the attention (e.g. more money that can be used to obtain better care.) I just know that I did have someone who did pretty much everything she could to get famous, and it didn't get her anywhere.

I thought about publishing this case because it was so out outright bizarre and dysfunctional, but that would've just gotten these 2 ladies even more damaging attention.

 

[ClinPsycMasters]

Is Munchausen's by Proxy produced through subconscious mechanisms like projective identification or is it deliberate?

 

[TheWowEffect]

Well, in any case, that diagnosis is crushing. It seems to be fairly reliable based on the studies I've looked at and the prognosis is so terribly poor and suicide rate frighteningly high. Hopefully we can replace schizophrenia with a better diagnostic label in the future, one that doesn't function as a catchall. Usually when I think of kids that age, I think pervasive developmental disorder or some neurologically based psychiatric problem.

Cancer or AIDS by any other name would be just as terrible.

 

[ClinPsycMasters]

Cancer or AIDS by any other name would be just as terrible.

man, you are right about that. Ironically, in that case, a delusional disorder can numb the pain. Unless the dream world's monsters are more frightening than the beast that is childhood cancer or AIDS.

 

[whopper]

Is Munchausen's by Proxy produced through subconscious mechanisms like projective identification or is it deliberate?

It's deliberate in the sense that the person is aware of what they're doing, and aware that it will satisfy their psychic need for attention.

However, the reasons why the person may desire attention may be subconcious.

 

[chameleonknight]

She was diagnosed at UCLA's child psychiatry unit...after being refered there from a private child psychiatrist. They didn't know what was going on for a long time. It was a good documentary, I recommend it if you can find it.

Devastating to the family. They had to live in two separate apartments so they could keep their other child away from her because they didn't trust her not to hurt him. Talk about marital strain.

She was admitted for several months at UCLA; parents also noted that she her behavior was much more organized after starting Clozaril. It seems like a legitimate diagnosis, and I'll admit, initially I was skeptical of the diagnosis too.

 

[whopper]

She may really have it, I guess it's just the Oprah factor that makes this sound fishy.

I've had a few patients, who as children, had a severe medical problem and were given everything they could desire. Then when they got better, they noticed that they got what they wanted to the extreme only when they were sick. For some of them it led to factitious disorder. For others, it led to at least some type of interaction with a mental health professional though it was not on the order of factitious disorder.

So when I see children with problems, and get media attention, it sometimes rubs me the wrong way.

But overall, I don't know this girl on Oprah, or saw the video on her (I'm currently in an office that blocks videos) so I can't comment on her.