PhD/PsyD 9 posters and 0 pubs

[mewtoo]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hey everyone,

I posted in the WAMC about a month ago. In it I described that I had 9 posters (a mix of mostly first author; regional and international conferences), one presentation (best paper in my college and got to represent the college at the university UG conference; won money for it), and currently 0 publications. Some said that that amount of posters for no publications could raise some red flags on my app for clinical phd programs. I do realize I am the point (and maybe past it) of diminishing returns on posters and am not going to bother with them anymore until later on.

I'm applying this December for them and will nearly be 3 semesters into my masters. I *should* have one 2nd author manuscript at least submitted by then (trying to submit it next month) and may have a 1st author manuscript for publication submitted or in prep by then. If this all worked out, would that imbalance be corrected? Also, if it *didn't* work out, would this raise red flags? Also, the fact that these manuscripts (and a lot of my posters) will be with my undergrad mentor and none of the faculty at my masters programs raise red flags? We just have an awesome working relationship and she is in my area so I'm still continuing to work with her, but I don't know if it would look weird that I didn't have as productive of a relationship to one of my new profs?

If anyone wants more info about my app, its on the last page of the WAMC, though I am more just worried about this part of my app at the time.

-Mew

 

[AcronymAllergy]

In all honesty, and this is just my take--the poster-to-pub ratio is more important once you're in grad school and beyond than it is when you're applying to grad school. In the latter case, having any sort of research product is going to be a good thing, particularly if you're first author on some of them. I wouldn't be concerned about any of the potential "red flags," but others might feel differently.

 

[WisNeuro]

AA is right, as an undergrad applying for grad school, it's ok. When you're applying to internship and fellowship though, they are definitely going to want to see that you have the ability to convert research into pubs when it's a little more under your control.

 

[Icculus8]

I was involved in a lab that was very into getting undergraduates poster experience, so by the time I applied I had a 3-4 first author posters at national conferences and quite a few co-authored and smaller, local conference presentations. Although your experience may be different coming from a master's program, but as far as I can tell, the fact I had several posters and no published articles had no negative impact on me at Clinical PhD programs.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Hey everyone,

I posted in the WAMC about a month ago. In it I described that I had 9 posters (a mix of mostly first author; regional and international conferences), one presentation (best paper in my college and got to represent the college at the university UG conference; won money for it), and currently 0 publications. Some said that that amount of posters for no publications could raise some red flags on my app for clinical phd programs. I do realize I am the point (and maybe past it) of diminishing returns on posters and am not going to bother with them anymore until later on.

I'm applying this December for them and will nearly be 3 semesters into my masters. I *should* have one 2nd author manuscript at least submitted by then (trying to submit it next month) and may have a 1st author manuscript for publication submitted or in prep by then. If this all worked out, would that imbalance be corrected? Also, if it *didn't* work out, would this raise red flags? Also, the fact that these manuscripts (and a lot of my posters) will be with my undergrad mentor and none of the faculty at my masters programs raise red flags? We just have an awesome working relationship and she is in my area so I'm still continuing to work with her, but I don't know if it would look weird that I didn't have as productive of a relationship to one of my new profs?

If anyone wants more info about my app, its on the last page of the WAMC, though I am more just worried about this part of my app at the time.

-Mew

Relatively few people applying to grad school have publications. As others stated above, that "ratio" really only matters for post-doc and faculty positions. In my experience (with cog/beh/soc neurosci labs), having a publication or two submitted will put you above the majority of candidates.

 

[MCParent]

Relatively few people applying to grad school have publications. As others stated above, that "ratio" really only matters for post-doc and faculty positions. In my experience (with cog/beh/soc neurosci labs), having a publication or two submitted will put you above the majority of candidates.

Agree.
As a faculty member-- posters are fine. Posters show me you can work on a team and do something important on a project. Asking an undergrad to complete a publication by application time is asking a lot--even just waiting for the first round of reviews on something that gets reviewed positively can be months and months, let alone all the other work that goes into putting a publication together.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Agree.
As a faculty member-- posters are fine. Posters show me you can work on a team and do something important on a project. Asking an undergrad to complete a publication by application time is asking a lot--even just waiting for the first round of reviews on something that gets reviewed positively can be months and months, let alone all the other work that goes into putting a publication together.

Do your expectations regarding publications change much if the applicant is coming from a masters program, as is the case with the OP?

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Do your expectations regarding publications change much if the applicant is coming from a masters program, as is the case with the OP?

In my experience and opinion, the OP having two publications under review/in press is a good place to be when nearing the end of a master's. When I think about a second-year Ph.D. student who entered straight from undergrad, many would be quite happy to be in a similar position.

I expect, even though the OP may not have papers in press by the time they apply, their CV and personal statement will reflect their knowledge and varied experiences beyond what an undergrad might have.

When I consulted with my PIs regarding applicants to the department, we tended not to judge a CV/statement from a master's student applicant much differently than someone straight from undergrad. Sure, there were things here or there that may have made me think, "what exactly did you do in those couple years?", (e.g., our last master's applicant had 5 papers in various stanges -- but none as the first author [mostly 3rd], and none in the last few years -- plus only 1 poster presentation. This discrepancy made us scratch our heads a bit). However, the OP sounds to be in a good spot if they can push those manuscripts through to the review phase.

Sorry that got so long-winded. Best of luck. 🙂

 

[mewtoo]

Thank you for the input everyone! 🙂

 

[bcliff]

What I'm about to say is anecdotal, but I feel it's worth mentioning - I met someone the other day who applied to clinical PhD programs last year and received 0 interviews; she told me that the main feedback she got was due to her lack of publications. That being said, this thread has made feel a lot better about my standing as an applicant given that I have manuscripts in submission, but no peer reviewed publications (yet) to add to my CV.

 

[Realities]

My experience was actually just about the opposite of what briarcliff mentioned - I had 0 publications and probably about 7-8 posters when I applied to clinical PhD programs last year, and I received interviews from 75% of the schools I applied to. Nobody seemed to expect that I would already have publications.

Like other posters have mentioned above, I agree that the ratio likely matters much more later on.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Re: briarcliff's point, it can also relate to the specific schools to which one is applying. Might UCLA, for example, expect its incoming grad students to already have a pub or two? Sure, but UCLA isn't most grad programs.

That, and never rule out (unfortunately) the possibility that the applicant may have been disingenuous in what she said, or perhaps that she misunderstood/misremembered the received feedback.

 

[EmotRegulation]

When I review applications, I am looking for some evidence of research experience...that is an absolute must for being invited to interview. There are other ways to demonstrate research experience (honors thesis, lab work bolstered by strong letters) but posters convey a lot really quickly, namely a clear story, some attempt at analyses (even if heavily guided by a mentor) and interpreting results, and initial exposure to presenting in public. I like to see posters ideally at regional or national conferences (I don't pay as much attention to campus undergrad poster presentations or state conventions, though these are certainly better than nothing). I'd love to see papers, too, though having publications is BY FAR the exception rather than the rule (note: I am not at UCLA or a "big name" school although we are an R1).

 

[mewtoo]

What I'm about to say is anecdotal, but I feel it's worth mentioning - I met someone the other day who applied to clinical PhD programs last year and received 0 interviews; she told me that the main feedback she got was due to her lack of publications. That being said, this thread has made feel a lot better about my standing as an applicant given that I have manuscripts in submission, but no peer reviewed publications (yet) to add to my CV.

I just wanted to say when I applied the cycle before last I had half as many of these posters (and no awards) and obviously no pubs and got 1 interview and waitlisted for another interview. These weren't UCLA level schools, but were solid programs. Hoping I'll have a much better outcome this time.

 

[MCParent]

Do your expectations regarding publications change much if the applicant is coming from a masters program, as is the case with the OP?

I agree with johnamo again. A masters is usually about two years right? It would be nice to see two pubs at the end of that. More is great of course, and maybe only one, too, if it involved a tough-to-get population or was otherwise more complex.