a conundrum...

[anxietypeaker]

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So, ive been accepted to a "low tier" mstp and a top tier md program (top5-10).

I really dont want to make the "wrong" decision.

1) i am ignoring location differences
2) top tier md's resarch is much stronger

What do you think would help me nail a better residency (my understanding was that postdoc positions would be not that difficult regardless of which i attend)? But then again i DO want to practice science (and medicine).

My college professor (full time researcher, got md phd from hopkins) said i should attend the top tier md..... i dunno.....

 

[CielloStelatto]

the people i've talked to (md/phds, physicians, my former md mentor) would probably agree and tell you to go to the better school. of course, if your heart is 100% set on being only or primarily a researcher and that's what you want to do...then I think you know your answer. otherwise, those i've talked to seem to think that the md training and name will best help with residencies, etc. there's always the option of taking a year or two to do a significant research rotation. or-- you could do the phd afterwards (easier to do it this way than the phd trying to get back into med school), or a researchy residency, maybe.

even though those named above told me that i should do the solo md, i'm still feeling the mstp, so i can understand if you're the same way. sorry if i'm not much help! good luck

 

[Neuronix]

So, ive been accepted to a "low tier" mstp and a top tier md program (top5-10).

Is there such a thing as a low tier MSTP? There's a few exceptions, but almost all MSTPs are top-50 USNews research ranking schools. This by definition is not lower tier. Even beyond that they're mid-tier schools. IMO, if you want to be an MD/PhD, be an MD/PhD.

Also, despite any of my writings that might make you think otherwise, I think the PhD is going to help you more to get an academic research-oriented residency than med school reputation. I think lack of debt will be far more conducive to you becoming a future scientist than will a big name education.

 

[nomogram3]

I agree with Neuronix. If you are an MD/PhD, have good grades, board scores, and publications, you will get interviews with top ranked internal medicine programs regardless of where your degree is from. I won't speak for other specialties. There really aren't that many MD/PhD's in the grand scheme of things, and even fewer who want to stick it out and do research. An alternative is doing straight MD and then taking a few years off to do the Hughes research program, but the tuition bill is going to hurt. There are NIH programs for tuition reimbursement for MDs who want to do research, but there is no guarantee.

 

[Freak]

I also agree with Neuronix ... if you look at 250K in debt in the face and then think about the academic lifestyle/salary, it will be quite daunting to be motivated to do research as a career.

If you want to go into private practice though and make more money, then the MD from a good school is much more valuable ... the name will totally matter in that case.

When you say that the mstp school has "lower" research, is that just a general judgement or do you not have any advisors who you want to work with? If the latter, I would put some more thought into the equation.

Finally, the value of the PhD on getting residency spots is easily discernable from the AAMC charting the outcomes pdf. It totally depends on speciality and your Step I and AOA status are more relevant.

 

[DendWrite]

You said that the top-10 MD school has much stronger research. But what does that really mean? Do you know for sure what field you want to go into yet? Are there specific PIs that you want to work with at either school? Have you contacted them / talked to post-docs, or grad students in the lab? NIH funding is not always equal to a good lab experience. Don't get me wrong, you need money, but why are you doing this in the first place? I'd gladly take a good PI and a lot of freedom over working for a PI that publishes all the time but has his own agenda about the work that I do. It depends though what you want...to be a scientist or to have a career in academic medicine. I've known researchers who seemed to do research just for the faculty position it brought them (years of work, few publications, never seemed too excited about it). I've known others who really loved the work and could care less about where they ultimately ended up as long as they could do their work -- incidentally, these people tend to be the most successful in the long run. You have to decide what your goals are and what is going to make you happy. Neither school will limit your career so long as you score well on the boards and network.

 

[Shifty B]

I'm going to chime in and agree with the others. The differences between a top 10 and a top 25 medical school are not that great, and almost every MSTP program is going to be in the top 25-50. The difference in career path between an MD and and MD/PhD is much larger. You should make your career choice based on what kind of career path you want to take. Then your choice is made.

If you think about it, almost everyone who goes to an MSTP program has made this choice already. MSTP programs are very competitive and pretty much all of their students could have gone to a higher ranked MD-only program (or, if they were considering PhD only, could have gone to the school of their choice). Instead, they decided to go for the dual degree program at a lower ranked school. Only those who got in to top 5-10 MSTP programs didn't compromise in terms of arbitrary school ranking, for whatever its worth.

 

[anxietypeaker]

I'm going to chime in and agree with the others. The differences between a top 10 and a top 25 medical school are not that great, and almost every MSTP program is going to be in the top 25-50. The difference in career path between an MD and and MD/PhD is much larger. You should make your career choice based on what kind of career path you want to take. Then your choice is made.

If you think about it, almost everyone who goes to an MSTP program has made this choice already. MSTP programs are very competitive and pretty much all of their students could have gone to a higher ranked MD-only program (or, if they were considering PhD only, could have gone to the school of their choice). Instead, they decided to go for the dual degree program at a lower ranked school. Only those who got in to top 5-10 MSTP programs didn't compromise in terms of arbitrary school ranking, for whatever its worth.

I sorta had decided mdphd for quite a while...that is until my prof and a few people i was speaking with disagree w/ my decision. I completely agree that a top 25 mstp vs top 10 md would be an open/shut case for me (mstp obviously). My problem is more of a top 26-50 mstp vs top top 5-10 md.... but i think im getting validation of my first decision (go mstp). Stupid professor got me thinkin'...😛

 

[Freak]

If you post the schools that you are deciding between, you will probably get better feedback.

Also, I was told by and advisor once that I would never get into an MD/PhD program ... obviously he was quite right 😛

 

[whiteshadodw]

I sorta had decided mdphd for quite a while...that is until my prof and a few people i was speaking with disagree w/ my decision. I completely agree that a top 25 mstp vs top 10 md would be an open/shut case for me (mstp obviously). My problem is more of a top 26-50 mstp vs top top 5-10 md.... but i think im getting validation of my first decision (go mstp). Stupid professor got me thinkin'...😛

HAHAHA. i'm only laughing because the same happened to me. a professor told me that you had to have a 4.0 (he said literally 4.0), 36 on the MCAT, and volunteer at EVERY hospice to even have a shot at MD/PhD. at the time i had a 3.93, and all the rest besides the MCAT. i sat for a year thinking it was over, and i wasn't ready to pursue an MD only. so i didn't apply last year, now i'm a senior and it seems that i would have been fairly competitive. i think if you're really torn you should talk to some MD/PhDs and get their take. also, try to see if the research going on at your schools is what you're most interested in. it seems that you're most interested in research, so why not go somewhere you'll enjoy the research (i know that sounds a little idiotic considering you have an MSTP offer). in any case, good luck with your decision.

 

[bd4727]

I agree with everyone's advice above that you should do the MD/PhD for the reasons described.

I would add that if you talk to people at "Top Tier" places, and ask them where are good schools they will generally tell you places that have strong research in their particular area-- many which are way outside of the Top 50 overall. For instance, Wake Forrest is a haven for Tissue Engineering research right now, even though it's medical school isn't a Top10 place.

My point is that within academia, there is much more than "pure" name recognition when it comes to name recognition-- ie telling your grandma you are going to Univ of Washington vs Yale is much different than telling that to someone in medicine (if that makes any sense).

You should go where you can most easily accomplish what it is you want to accomplish.