A demoralizing first semester

[R2pharmD2]

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That is what I am saying!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! And what is wrong with overachievers????????????????????? I love my super strong type A personality and I love being an overachiever!

SO residencies prefer lazy people now? 🙄

You just have to be careful not to come across as arrogant when you have those kinds of grades. Everybody has met the guy/girl with the 4.0 who just knows they're clearly superior to those with a 3.99 or below, so as soon as they see a hint of that in your personality you're automatically that person.

 

[SHC1984]

She was hiring for a staff position, not a residency. I am not familar with that process at all.

That's fine but I still do NOT understand how anyone would think someone with a 4.0 GPA would cause problems at work? If anything it would be the people with lower GPA that would cause problems by making mistakes and not knowing how to properly verify prescriptions/meds etc.

I think having an overachieving attitude is the best quality to have in the workplace. I think being quiet and focusing on your task is also another very important quality to have at the workplace. I rather have someone that's quiet and overachieving at any workplace than someone that's always talking, talking more than actually working and not focus on their work and causing errors etc.

 

[owlegrad]

That is a major sterotype that is about just as true as me saying "all hot blonde women are stupid." "All African American people are the best at basketball." "All Asians are perfect at math." "All poor people are lazy." "All people with low GPAs are stupid." etc.

Yes, stereotypes are bad.

Yes, there is a sterotype that 4.0 students are socially awkard. Why would they cause problems in the workplace? Now that is just plain F*CK up logic! 👎

You don't see how being socially awkward has the potential to cause problems?

I am definetly not socially awkard. In fact I would say I am most likely better at interviewing than most people I know. I know what to say. I know how to read people and I know what makes them happy. I am not stupid. I know what people like etc. I also like to socialize with people if I am at a party or something. So I am not socially awkard at all.

I am happy for you. It's a valuable skill that will serve you well.

HOWEVER, during work or studying I would rather not talk and concentrate on my task. I think it is important to work on what needs to be done and so I am very quiet at work and prefer to be in a quiet enviroment at work. In school I only have like 2 friends b/c I think it is more important that I do well in my classes/research project so most of my time is spent on that. THAT IS MY CHOICE. LOL...I rarely if ever talk to someone b/c I want to make friends with them. I only do that if 1) making friends with that person would somehow benefit ME. or 2) that person is really amazing and I feel that I would really want to be friends with that person. Otherwise I think it is better for me to do things to IMPROVE myself versus make random friends. etc. And to be quite frank, most people just aren't worth my time to talk to. My time is very valuble and will only go to improving myself or to the very few people that I find just amazing.

And you don't see how this could be off putting to some? Or how this might disrupt an otherwise harmonious workplace?

...
So yeah that DOP have some issues. That isn't a good sterotype to hold at all. Just as bad as me saying all hot blonde women are stupid. I mean people have all kinds of sterotype in their heads that are just flat out wrong.

Well I am just going to have to flat out disagree. She is great at what she does. As for the stereotype, it is just a precaution that she had, it didn't prevent her from having the interview or hiring the candidate.

 

[owlegrad]

That's fine but I still do NOT understand how anyone would think someone with a 4.0 GPA would cause problems at work? If anything it would be the people with lower GPA that would cause problems by making mistakes and not knowing how to properly verify prescriptions/meds etc.

I think having an overachieving attitude is the best quality to have in the workplace. I think being quiet and focusing on your task is also another very important quality to have at the workplace. I rather have someone that's quiet and overachieving at any workplace than someone that's always talking, talking more than actually working and not focus on their work and causing errors etc.

So high grades = less errors? That is interesting. It's not the grades that are the problem, it is the attitudes that so often accompany them. NOT always, but often enough.

Being an overachiever is great, but if you can't work on the team, no amount of overachieving is going to bridge the gap. It's the supperious attitude that prevents good teamwork. After all what is the point of teamwork if you can just do everything better yourself?

Communication is important too - being focused is great, but if you cannot communicate at least somewhat while you work that will disrupt work flow.

 

[SHC1984]

You just have to be careful not to come across as arrogant when you have those kinds of grades. Everybody has met the guy/girl with the 4.0 who just knows they're clearly superior to those with a 3.99 or below, so as soon as they see a hint of that in your personality you're automatically that person.

LOL...I USE to be like that especially in undergrad, but not anymore. I have met plenty of people that could get by with studying much less than me and make 4.0 and I have met plenty of people that have 3.7 or 3.8 GPA and they were much smarter than me. So yeah, that attitude is definetly gone now. Since going to college and then graduate school and meeting all different kinds of people (some very interesting and some just flat out amazing) I feel very plain. I use to think I am great...but now, I am okay! lol...

😳

 

[konkan]

I only posted my GPA and pcat to establish a baseline of where I was upon entrance to pharmacy school.

You got out when there was a demand for pharmacists. With the extreme expansion of pharmacy schools and companies pushing for automated dispensing and mail-order, a 2.96 GPA may not present itself as a competitive advantage. I recieved a bachelor's in an unrelated feild in 2005 and I have seen how quickly a job market can change. You may be safe, but I need to stand out in every way possible.

I graduated 1.5 years ago. Those were already not the best times for pharmacists. All I'm trying to say is grades really don't matter. They just show how fast you can learn info from books/power-slides/notes etc. Real pharmacy practice (at least hospital pharmacy) has nothing to do with that. And employers know that. What really matters is do you really like what pharmacists do? How do you handle stressful situations? How do you deal with your co-workers? Those things really matter.

 

[SHC1984]

So high grades = less errors? That is interesting. It's not the grades that are the problem, it is the attitudes that so often accompany them. NOT always, but often enough.

Being an overachiever is great, but if you can't work on the team, no amount of overachieving is going to bridge the gap. It's the supperious attitude that prevents good teamwork. After all what is the point of teamwork if you can just do everything better yourself?

Communication is important too - being focused is great, but if you cannot communicate at least somewhat while you work that will disrupt work flow.

Fair enough. While I was working at Walgreens, I noticed the pharmacy tech there and the pharmacy manager there were very good friends. When I work there I was never friends with any of them. I just do all my work and then go home. I never really had any problems working with them, but I never talk while I was working there. I am never able to make friends while I am at work and sometimes I wish I could. But I am always SUPER stress while working at Walgreens...so it's hard to make friends in time of high stress. LOL....

 

[type b pharmD]

Great, here I thought I was making myself a competetive applicant for residency and now it turns out I'm just stereotyping myself as an overachieving as*hat.

i've had two employers tell me they screen people out based on having too high of GPA. not that they *wouldnt* interview or hire necessarily, just that they would interview fewer of those people and would expect them to rock the interview more cause of suspecting that they are asshat overachievers

one person has actually told me "i was worried about you cause you had a 4.0, whether you'd actually be a hard worker or just book smart, but i'm glad i went with my gut based off the interview (ie since it worked out for us)

 

[ucrx]

i've had two employers tell me they screen people out based on having too high of GPA. not that they *wouldnt* interview or hire necessarily, just that they would interview fewer of those people and would expect them to rock the interview more cause of suspecting that they are asshat overachievers

one person has actually told me "i was worried about you cause you had a 4.0, whether you'd actually be a hard worker or just book smart, but i'm glad i went with my gut based off the interview (ie since it worked out for us)

I heard something similar at one of my residency interviews. They said they weren't used to seeing applicants with high GPAs (meaning near 4.0) have a well-rounded CV or be good with communication.

I'm not saying that I think all 4.0 students are socially awkward or only book smart. It just seems to be a big enough problem that people expect it/aren't surprised to see it. Of course, if you are the 4.0 student with good communication skills and a strong application outside of grades, it might help you stand out.

And it is a problem to be socially awkward in pharmacy. You need to be able to confidently and professionally make recommendations and explain yourself. You need to be able to establish rapport with the team you're on if you're in inpatient or with the patients if you work directly with them.

 

[mustang sally]

I heard something similar at one of my residency interviews. They said they weren't used to seeing applicants with high GPAs (meaning near 4.0) have a well-rounded CV or be good with communication.

I'm not saying that I think all 4.0 students are socially awkward or only book smart. It just seems to be a big enough problem that people expect it/aren't surprised to see it. Of course, if you are the 4.0 student with good communication skills and a strong application outside of grades, it might help you stand out.

And it is a problem to be socially awkward in pharmacy. You need to be able to confidently and professionally make recommendations and explain yourself. You need to be able to establish rapport with the team you're on if you're in inpatient or with the patients if you work directly with them.

Wow, this thread has been a real eye-opener for me to find out I might be at a disadvantage for both residency and regular job interviews. It almost makes me think I should throw my grades this semester or something (though it might look too obvious).

Seriously, I was just raised to believe that doing well in school was a good thing. I don't have a type A personality or spend all my time studying. I do work hard in pharmacy school, but it really doesn't seem that difficult to me. I go to class, read the material, and all our exams/quizzes are multiple choice which is pretty easy for me so ???

 

[owlegrad]

Wow, this thread has been a real eye-opener for me to find out I might be at a disadvantage for both residency and regular job interviews. It almost makes me think I should throw my grades this semester or something (though it might look too obvious).

Seriously, I was just raised to believe that doing well in school was a good thing. I don't have a type A personality or spend all my time studying. I do work hard in pharmacy school, but it really doesn't seem that difficult to me. I go to class, read the material, and all our exams/quizzes are multiple choice which is pretty easy for me so ???

Don't tank your grades! A simple solution is to not list your GPA on your CV. If you are asked for it, give it to them. Then you have the benefit of a high GPA plus you look modest. Just a thought.

 

[cycloketocaine]

Don't tank your grades! A simple solution is to not list your GPA on your CV. If you are asked for it, give it to them. Then you have the benefit of a high GPA plus you look modest. Just a thought.

Residencies (most) require transcripts from which they get your GPA.

I think that the importance of a well rounded CV outside of grades cannot be emphasized enough. If you have a 4.0, fantastic, but come outside of your comfort zone and get leadership, research and work experience.

 

[bokonon82]

You should be proud of your 4.0, but interviews and interpersonal skills matter. It would also be a good idea to bring yourself down off of the pedestal of superiority. I can already tell that a certain poster is standing on one currently. Networking and making friends is VERY important.

Personally, I am an excellent interviewer and speaker in general. That is going to help me a great deal. What I have a tougher time with is memorization and that's where my grades differ at this point. My mind requires a great deal of repetition and conditioning (which is part of being 28 years old).

Currently I'm going through self made quizzes online over and over and over for various drugs, mechanisms, treatments, side-effects and disease states. As I learn these, I slowly start to put the logic together and once I get to that point I can see the big picture. Once i see the big picture, I can go back and fill the blanks in where my knowledge is lacking.

What your reading is a mental break from studying so that my brain doesn't collapse in on itself.

 

[owlegrad]

Residencies (most) require transcripts from which they get your GPA.

I think that the importance of a well rounded CV outside of grades cannot be emphasized enough. If you have a 4.0, fantastic, but come outside of your comfort zone and get leadership, research and work experience.

Agree 100%. 👍

It's not the 4.0 that is the problem, just the attitude/personality that can accompany it.

 

[crazybob]

Agree 100%. 👍

It's not the 4.0 that is the problem, just the attitude/personality that can accompany it.

I know some people at school who have a 4.0 (or pretty close to it), but they don't talk to people they don't like. It almost seems like those students with 4.0's (or near 4.0's) are too good to talk to their classmates. I've heard that some of them don't even say 'hi' when they see a classmate at a grocery store. But at interviews, they're apparently very good. When I tell my friends about how I talk to some of them, my friends are like "wow... I'm surprised they talk to you when they don't even acknowledge that I exist"

 

[ucrx]

Wow, this thread has been a real eye-opener for me to find out I might be at a disadvantage for both residency and regular job interviews. It almost makes me think I should throw my grades this semester or something (though it might look too obvious).

Seriously, I was just raised to believe that doing well in school was a good thing. I don't have a type A personality or spend all my time studying. I do work hard in pharmacy school, but it really doesn't seem that difficult to me. I go to class, read the material, and all our exams/quizzes are multiple choice which is pretty easy for me so ???

I'm not trying to say a 4.0 will hurt you, just don't bank on a 4.0. A 4.0 alone can indicate a person doesn't care, needed to spend all of their free time studying to get it, etc. It takes more than knowledge to succeed in residency (and pharmacy in general). You still need a good all around application and good communication skills. A 4.0 with a strong CV and good communication skills is a powerful application. School and grades aren't everything, but they are important.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I think the take home message is that a 4.0 is nice but don't expect it to open doors for you by itself. You need to be well rounded. Don't focus on grades to the exclusion of everything else. And be a nice person, not a conceited douchebag. 😛

 

[type b pharmD]

I think the take home message is that a 4.0 is nice but don't expect it to open doors for you by itself. You need to be well rounded. Don't focus on grades to the exclusion of everything else. And be a nice person, not a conceited douchebag. 😛

yeah. i dont think a 4.0 is going to hold you back very extensively on its own, but if you have one, i would agree with one of the above posters who say , maybe keep it off your resume or application, and do some extra work to be ready to convey that you have street smarts (pharmacy practice smarts, or something) and you'll be good

 

[PharmDstudent]

I've only worked (IPPE) with one 4.0 pharmacist, and he was arrogant, but fun to work with. Eventually he got fired, though, for forgetting to pay for his snack before he started eating it. Crazy... Yeah. The 4.0 didn't save him on that one!
To top it off, he had to move his family 45 min away to get a new job, because the area had too many pharmacists to begin with.