A little bit of trouble with my community rotation

[kendrick lamar]

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This seems to be a topic somewhat already touched on, but I'm on my community rotation without any retail experience besides my IPPE. It hasn't really been all that easy b/c my pharmacist tends to get mad at me a lot, some for minor mistakes, but I do try to be conscious about what I'm doing wrong and am working on fixing them. I would like to think I am getting better over time, but I realize it is probably far more overwhelming for me than having not been able to get an intern/tech position during school (seems like a lot of people here are having trouble?). Anyway, my rotation is only six weeks and I don't know if six weeks is enough time to master the responsibilities of a retail pharmacist. My school's curriculum was heavily based on clinical aspects of pharmacy; we didn't learn very many things about retail, so that seems to make it harder. I also hoped to do more clinical work, but it seems difficult at my position right now. Also I heard that many places are not doing grad internships anymore (is this true???) so getting the hours I was unable to receive from not working seems like it'll be way harder. lol, so all in all, I'm wondering then how hard it would be for somebody like me to get a job in retail? Hospital? Am Care? Drug company/industry? How hard is it to get a fellowship without having a job? Other areas? I also was considering getting my MPH, I had my rotations adviser recommend it, but my school doesn't offer it so I would have to consider it post-grad. I've heard of other school's doing joint programs, which seem to have a great way to integrate pharmacy and public health, I would assume just doing the MPH alone would make the availability of such opportunities harder. Is there anybody who did both or who knows opportunities for PharmD + MPH? Sorry for such a loaded question, just trying to explore my options since the market seems pretty tough these days

 

[boriqua]

the retail rotations I did in college, the preceptors were mostly *******s as well. not to bring race into it but it was mostly the white ones. they kind of have a god complex. I did a retail rotation with a Chinese lady in emblem health and she was ridiculously nice and I had a great time while learning a lot.
nothing much you can do about mean preceptors. think about it, their training you to potentially take their job in the future. all you could really do is lower your head and pass the 6 weeks and hope they don't fail you for no reason(though if they do, you can probably complain to your school)

as for how possible it is for you to get a job, apparently it depends on where you live. if it's in new York, impossible

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

This seems to be a topic somewhat already touched on, but I'm on my community rotation without any retail experience besides my IPPE. It hasn't really been all that easy b/c my pharmacist tends to get mad at me a lot, some for minor mistakes, but I do try to be conscious about what I'm doing wrong and am working on fixing them. I would like to think I am getting better over time, but I realize it is probably far more overwhelming for me than having not been able to get an intern/tech position during school (seems like a lot of people here are having trouble?). Anyway, my rotation is only six weeks and I don't know if six weeks is enough time to master the responsibilities of a retail pharmacist. My school's curriculum was heavily based on clinical aspects of pharmacy; we didn't learn very many things about retail, so that seems to make it harder. I also hoped to do more clinical work, but it seems difficult at my position right now. Also I heard that many places are not doing grad internships anymore (is this true???) so getting the hours I was unable to receive from not working seems like it'll be way harder. lol, so all in all, I'm wondering then how hard it would be for somebody like me to get a job in retail? Hospital? Am Care? Drug company/industry? How hard is it to get a fellowship without having a job? Other areas? I also was considering getting my MPH, I had my rotations adviser recommend it, but my school doesn't offer it so I would have to consider it post-grad. I've heard of other school's doing joint programs, which seem to have a great way to integrate pharmacy and public health, I would assume just doing the MPH alone would make the availability of such opportunities harder. Is there anybody who did both or who knows opportunities for PharmD + MPH? Sorry for such a loaded question, just trying to explore my options since the market seems pretty tough these days

Do NOT give academia more of your money! Start working for a few years and determine if you think the further education would be useful in your job or obtaining a new job. If you end up taking a position with a state, county, PHS, prison, etc, then maybe an MPH may be useful to the job and you can get your employer to pay for it.

 

[panasoniku]

Do NOT give academia more of your money! Start working for a few years and determine if you think the further education would be useful in your job or obtaining a new job. If you end up taking a position with a state, county, PHS, prison, etc, then maybe an MPH may be useful to the job and you can get your employer to pay for it.

I agree. You have so many questions but you never stated WHAT you want to do? If you just want anyjob you can get a job at any retail and probably hospital as long as you are willing to move...

 

[knight on horse]

Retail, though simple, is dramatically taxing on the attention span, and consists largely of administrative and clerical work, odds and ends that will not come instinctually and therefore must rely on the mind, either through experience (most people), or, if for some reason you are possessed of an especially alert and interested mind, you can do it all on the first try with an all encompassing bird's eye view of the pharmacy.

While when well rested, a competent pharmacist can handle these matters easily, the real danger is that the same attention span is shared between retail work and personal activities.. the attention span and mental energy that is critical for wisdom, riches, adventures

 

[diastole]

I started working as a retail pharmacist with barely any experience in the retail setting while in school. My IPPEs were in slow pharmacies (75 scripts a day) and for my summer IPPE, I was filling blister packs all day. My community APPE was not in a retail setting. I was gearing up for a residency but did not match.

When I started working in a somewhat busy pharmacy with so little experience, it seemed like a hazing experience. I made plenty of mistakes and I feel fortunate that no one was harmed. But I survived and finally feel comfortable.

I wouldn't stress out too much about this. You will get through it too, whatever area you decide to go into.

 

[kendrick lamar]

Yea I figured I would want to work before considering another degree, but I was just curious as to pharmacy and public health careers, are there any research or fellowship opportunities out there? I'm interested in social/behavioral health; I signed up for free online course on the topic, so we'll see how it is.

I guess my main point (with the million questions) was simply wondering how hard it would be to get a job and perform as a pharmacist with what little experience I have and how incompetent I feel on this community rotation. I think my concern was best addressed by diastole, because I'm feeling that hazing feel right now and my preceptor makes me feel like I should know far more than I do while I think six weeks isn't enough time for a major adjustment process. It's good to kno though that you were able to catch up eventually, and I think knight on horse said it best, really, it seems pretty simple it's just the fact that you need to be in constant alertness is where I tend to screw up at times and forget things while being under massive pressure.

Now as to what exactly I want to do, I added a ton of questions b/c at this point, it's still up in the air. Ideally, I wanted to do something clinical, like with a residency, but seeing how competitive that is, I want to be practical too and keep my mind open b/c at this point w/ new pharmacy schools opening and all, doesn't seem like I can afford to be picky at all. It seems like getting a retail job or a hospital job is my best bet right now, but I wasn't sure even w/ the lack of experience, I could still get a job in an am care setting (somebody mentioned the VA?) or industry (I know you need fellowship for that).

Also, just wondering if any places still offer grad intern positions b/c I know some pharmacies don't anymore and that's only worrisome to me b/c of the fact I didn't have added experience w/ a job or anything.

As for being willing to move, I am ready to consider that, but wondering what areas that would be like (Mid-west)? I mean, ideally I would not like to go to the mid-west, but again, trying to keep my mind as open as I can.

Anyway, diastole, you made me feel 100x better b/c that's just basically my concern right now. I'm assuming my preceptor is being hard on me with the criticism, which I don't mind all the time b/c I am learning, but it is also discouraging me from considering retail, which only worries me b/c it seems to lessen the options I have in considering where I can find a job. I guess at the end of the day, I have to remember that it's only a phase and hopefully I will pick it up. I can really see myself picking it up, I just think I would need more than six weeks to make that possible.

Thanks for the great responses.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Every new job will have learning curve. No matter how much you know about pharmacy or about a certain area like hospital or retail, every job will most likely have a different computer system, different policies, different expectations of
co-workers/patients/nurses/prescribers, different billing issues, different regulatory issues.

Your 1st job as a pharmacist will be the biggest learning curve, if you wait until you "feel" ready, you won't ever be working a pharmacist. You just have to start with the expectation that you are going to be learning a lot and probably stressed for at least the first 6 weeks of the job, and it will probably be 6 months to 1 year before you really feel comfortable that you know the job inside and out.

 

[kendrick lamar]

thanks for the encouragement, guys. I think I'm just shaken up with my rotation, my preceptor pretty much scared me silly, I mean she worked as a tech/intern for almost 10 years when she was a P4, so I think all this stuff came to her almost naturally, or at least she acts like it lol and she has that same expectation from me; but I already see myself getting used to things in the fifth week, thanks a bunch

 

[farmadiazepine]

every retail spot is different. don't feel down at all. the only reason your preceptor knows what she is doing is because she has been doing the same thing over and over for more than a decade.

when i was on rotations i didn't know how to do anything until the very end, like the 4th week, but by then it was the last week and we were off to the next rotation.

i work for a retail chain, and i'm damn good at my job, only because i am forced to work alone and learn how to do everything and i have been doing the same thing over and over night after night and day after day.

but now i work at a couple independents too. one of them i learned how to do everything, again because i work alone or with 1 tech. but my other place, with 8 techs, and 2 rph's, i have been there for 3 weeks already, and i still feel like a complete newbie, like i am just taking up space. it will take time to get used to everything, and to learn everyone's personalities, and to get comfortable.

its just time. thats it. all you should really worry about is just passing the rotation, whether you get an A, B, C, or a D it doesn't matter.

 

[Twentytwelve2]

I am not even on rotation yet and my IPPE preceptor already made me feel like I lack retail pharmacy experience which I do but why would you have expectations of a P4 from a student doing IPPE.... sigh. I am trying to 'learn' here and its not happening!

Honestly though it just motivates me more to try to get an intern position before APPE because so far IPPEs are busy work.

(Love this thread- made me feel a lot better that I am not alone! Because classmates dont tell you how everything actually goes. Instead, everything they say is rainbows and unicorns.)

If anyone else have stories to tell, please do!

 

[WhiteSnows]

Some retail preceptors out there are just not nice. I had a bad one as well. Just make sure you pass this rotation and move on.

 

[MindOverMatter]

I think the main reason why I haven't decided to become a preceptor yet is the fact that I would feel burdened by the intern. Maybe if I was in a slower store I would be able to do it, but right now I think that having an intern around asking questions and making mistakes would really drain on me. Granted this is all a part of the learning curve, but I just don't want the added pressure of having a newbie in the pharmacy making mistakes.

Maybe your preceptor is feeling the same way. Just stick it out and you'll be on to the next one in no time.

 

[rph3664]

Some retail preceptors out there are just not nice. I had a bad one as well. Just make sure you pass this rotation and move on.

The year before I graduated, there was a pregnant student who was due during a rotation, and the FEMALE preceptor told her that if she took more than 3 days off when the baby was born, she would automatically flunk this rotation. 😱 😡 She asked the preceptor, "What if I have a c-section? I'll still be in the hospital" and the preceptor said, "Should have thought about that before you got pregnant." 🙄 This woman went to the dean, who told the preceptor that she would have to pass this woman as long as she turned in all her assignments, which she did. And she didn't have a c-section, either. On top of it, that pregnancy had been MASSIVELY unplanned.

A couple years after I graduated, this preceptor was pregnant, and when I heard about it, I said, "Hope she's sick as a dog the whole nine months! No, really, I wouldn't wish that on anybody." Not long after that, she was denied tenure, and I'll bet her treatment of my classmate-before-me was a major factor. Honestly, she wasn't well liked in the program anyway.

 

[WhiteSnows]

At my school and in my area, female pharmacists (preceptors) are generally horrible to the students. I had two bad rotations and they are all female preceptors. In fact, I had to withdraw from one of my rotations because I could not handle the attitude of the preceptor. Thanks God I still graduate on time. I got perfect score for 7 out of 9 rotations and is being offered a business from one of my rotation after I graduate.

 

[WhiteSnows]

I think the main reason why I haven't decided to become a preceptor yet is the fact that I would feel burdened by the intern. Maybe if I was in a slower store I would be able to do it, but right now I think that having an intern around asking questions and making mistakes would really drain on me. Granted this is all a part of the learning curve, but I just don't want the added pressure of having a newbie in the pharmacy making mistakes.

Maybe your preceptor is feeling the same way. Just stick it out and you'll be on to the next one in no time.

I think not everyone can be a preceptor. Some like to teach and love to have students. Some don't. I just hate some preceptors who are out there to get you.

 

[kendrick lamar]

My preceptor is okay when it's not business hours, so I guess it is mainly the stress of having a student. I think I'm starting to realize that her way of teaching somebody is to kinda yell b/c she assumes that would prevent me from making mistakes. I understand that sometimes she means well, but ya know, sometimes , it's just made me make a whole lot more mistakes b/c of the added pressure that I am going to invariably do something wrong. Some mistakes were really minor and I feel like was kinda a part of a learning process(like having trouble w/ third party rejects) but I'm worried about the larger mistakes (ie: there was one prescription I transferred over from another store where I didn't specify the correct drug dose and it was almost wrongly filled). The worst thing I can possibly imagine is giving a patient a wrong drug or dose bc of pressure. I've actually had moments in the pharmacy where I have asked myself if this is even the right career for me. Not having experience before starting rotations really screwed me over. But seeing some of the positivity here, I guess there's a first time for everything and making mistakes isn't uncommon. It's not something you want to do obv but it's a part of the learning process, seems like. Guess I won't get too worked up about it.

 

[knight on horse]

At my school and in my area, female pharmacists (preceptors) are generally horrible to the students. I had two bad rotations and they are all female preceptors. In fact, I had to withdraw from one of my rotations because I could not handle the attitude of the preceptor. Thanks God I still graduate on time. I got perfect score for 7 out of 9 rotations and is being offered a business from one of my rotation after I graduate.

Yes.. if you are male and subordinate to them or inexperienced they can't help but despise you.

They are also hung up on rules and regulations in general, and in pharmacy these have been hammered in as important, so if you transgress while learning it's OMG

I find however that I have no trouble with motherly or hot preceptors. But those are the few

 

[WhiteSnows]

Yes.. if you are male and subordinate to them or inexperienced they can't help but despise you.

They are also hung up on rules and regulations in general, and in pharmacy these have been hammered in as important, so if you transgress while learning it's OMG

I find however that I have no trouble with motherly or hot preceptors. But those are the few

Agree! Male preceptors are much nicer. I have not got in trouble with any. I do have one hot and young female preceptor and she is very nice to me.

At my school, one student (the only one) was failed in her last class by a female faculty. Everyone thought it was too unfair for her and ended up rebuking that female faculty. Later on, she was let go and people celebrated.

 

[Sparda29]

I kinda agree about the female preceptor thing. Except I had one really cool one who actually knew my mom from some religious events at the mosque and ended up inviting me to for dinner at her house and tried to set me up with one of her hot daughters.


To be honest though, I probably learned the most from my preceptors who were female. The males pretty much just let me decide what I was going to be doing on the rotation and gave me As on all categories, the females generally made me work for it. My amb care rotation was so tough because she really made me work for the A, but at the same time I was so distracted by how hot she was. Damn cute little Russian-American preceptor. 😍😍

 

[kendrick lamar]

I kinda agree about the female preceptor thing. Except I had one really cool one who actually knew my mom from some religious events at the mosque and ended up inviting me to for dinner at her house and tried to set me up with one of her hot daughters.


To be honest though, I probably learned the most from my preceptors who were female. The males pretty much just let me decide what I was going to be doing on the rotation and gave me As on all categories, the females generally made me work for it. My amb care rotation was so tough because she really made me work for the A, but at the same time I was so distracted by how hot she was. Damn cute little Russian-American preceptor. 😍😍

lmao Salam Alaykum, man

 

[Sparda29]

lmao Salam Alaykum, man

walaikum salam bro.

 

[WhiteSnows]

There is nothing wrong with a female preceptor who is tough and wants you to learn. The problem starts when some of them start to let their home personalities out. Make me wonder if they have problems with their husbands at home and start pouring out the wraths on the students. So unprofessional!!!

 

[Corpseman]

My female preceptor was absolutely amazing! So, were the other female pharmacists on her staff. It sucks that so many of you have had problems with your preceptors. I really hope going forward I continue my string of good luck.

 

[Ackj]

I had 4 male and 4 female preceptors. Females were ICU, general medicine floor, hospital admin, and PBM/managed care. They were all super smart and you could probably say they were overachievers. Published many times over, residencies, on the state board, etc. Learned a ton from all of them, highly professional. The guys were definitely more laid back, but it may have just been the practice sites: long term care, Wags, corporate chain, am care. Didn't have any bad rotations, thankfully.

 

[owlegrad]

Most of my preceptors were female. Other than the fact that all they ever talked about was 50 shades of grey they were mostly ok. 😉

I agree that they were tougher than the male preceptors. All my male preceptors were very easy going, and I don't recall any of my female preceptors being very relaxed. That's not a bad thing, just an observation.

 

[kendrick lamar]

the thing with me on this rotation was that I had no idea what to expect. I heard some schools prepare you a lot for rotations, but I think my school generally expects the preceptors to loosely have a game plan and we follow what they tell us and pick it up from there. That's a very vague expectation, obviously, so cuz I didn't have retail experience, I didn't walk into the pharmacy trying to put my hands into things on the first day because, quite frankly, I had no idea what everybody was doing and was hoping for a little bit of direction (which I have learned at this rotation is something you have to create for yourself). Everybody was calling different people, using the computer, doing a lot of things that were making me overwhelmed from the perspective I was coming from. I asked my preceptor if she could let me fill on the first day since that's all I knew what to do. She said no, and told me to follow the techs because in order to be a pharmacist, I needed to know their job as well. Which is absolutely true, except following techs and seeing them use the computers did not help me at all. So I asked her if I could go in the OTC aisle and peruse there. I also told her that I want to see what the pharmacy is like and made the initiative to write down the names of many of the drugs so I can look them up later. She still continued to tell me that I wasn't working hard enough and I needed to do more. Now that I know how to do doctor calls, fill incoming McKesson orders, etc. I feel more confident in coming into the pharmacy and finding a job for myself. But it was an annoying to be made felt like I wasn't interested in learning when I was absolutely looking forward to rotations before coming in. Sigh. At least I am starting to understand her personality and see where she is coming from, but it has been a tough haul

 

[BenJammin]

I think the main reason why I haven't decided to become a preceptor yet is the fact that I would feel burdened by the intern. Maybe if I was in a slower store I would be able to do it, but right now I think that having an intern around asking questions and making mistakes would really drain on me. Granted this is all a part of the learning curve, but I just don't want the added pressure of having a newbie in the pharmacy making mistakes.

Maybe your preceptor is feeling the same way. Just stick it out and you'll be on to the next one in no time.

Nothing wrong with feeling the way you're feeling but if you're not up to being a preceptor then for god's sake don't be a preceptor. No need to torture a student by being a preceptor that doesn't want to teach or help a student. That was my biggest complaint on rotations. A pharmacist actually told me she hated students so I told flat out told her "then why are you a preceptor? do us all a favor and don't get your preceptor license renewed".

At my school and in my area, female pharmacists (preceptors) are generally horrible to the students. I had two bad rotations and they are all female preceptors. In fact, I had to withdraw from one of my rotations because I could not handle the attitude of the preceptor. Thanks God I still graduate on time. I got perfect score for 7 out of 9 rotations and is being offered a business from one of my rotation after I graduate.

I had 6 rotations with a female as my main preceptor and 4 of them were absolutely horrible. Like they had a chip on their shoulder the entire time. Nothing sexist about that either.

 

[naseuy]

I think it really matters whether or not the rotations are with faculty members. 5/8 of my rotations were with pharmacists employed by the university, and I think their objective is more to train and educate you, rather than to use you as free labor. For your community rotation, you just have to smile and nod for 5 weeks and do what they ask you.

 

[Sparda29]

Oh yeah, the male preceptors were generally cool with me setting up whatever schedule I wanted. Wanna come in at 12 and leave at 8 to avoid the traffic, sure buddy! The guys generally didn't really care what I did as long as I got my work done on time.

Female preceptors, "I expect you here at 8AM exactly."

 

[kendrick lamar]

I think it really matters whether or not the rotations are with faculty members. 5/8 of my rotations were with pharmacists employed by the university, and I think their objective is more to train and educate you, rather than to use you as free labor. For your community rotation, you just have to smile and nod for 5 weeks and do what they ask you.

man, my mistake was not getting more faculty preceptors. I really wish I did bc my professors know me and I wouldn't feel so uncomfortable around them, even if they were making me do a lot of work. I heard most of the preceptors I have were good tho, except I'm doing my community rotation out of state, so nobody obv has had my preceptor before. I do feel like I'm smiling and nodding like a people pleaser LOL. I'm glad I am learning and I did learn a lot, but ya, I'm just tired of my preceptor's snarkiness at times; she really hates it when things are not done her way and it can be annoying

 

[BenJammin]

I had one female preceptor that used to give me an hour and a half lunch breaks every once in a while. She said "I know you're not getting paid and rotations are really rough so just take an hour and a half off for lunch. You're a good kid so enjoy it. Nobody ever did that for me so I want to be the kind of preceptor I wish I had."

 

[kendrick lamar]

Oh yeah, the male preceptors were generally cool with me setting up whatever schedule I wanted. Wanna come in at 12 and leave at 8 to avoid the traffic, sure buddy! The guys generally didn't really care what I did as long as I got my work done on time.

Female preceptors, "I expect you here at 8AM exactly."

lol I got in trouble for coming into my rotation early. Like on the first day, I came in at 9 cuz that's when the store opened. But I e-mailed my preceptor two weeks before my rotation started asking what specifics I needed to kno, and then later I asked her a few days before what time I should come in (to which she never got until the day of my rotation). So she told me to come in an hour and a half later, which I didn't rly mind, it's just that she got mad at me for not asking earlier either, even tho I e-mailed her asking her what I needed to know two weeks beforehand lol. Sometimes I stay an hour later on my rotations b/c the free labor is nice for my preceptor LOL, meh, but I'm glad I'm getting some extra hours in b/c I could use some to make up for not having work outside of school

 

[joetrisman]

I had one female preceptor that used to give me an hour and a half lunch breaks every once in a while. She said "I know you're not getting paid and rotations are really rough so just take an hour and a half off for lunch. You're a good kid so enjoy it. Nobody ever did that for me so I want to be the kind of preceptor I wish I had."

Totally doing this for the good students if I end up precepting at some point

 

[Rockinacoustic]

I had one female preceptor that used to give me an hour and a half lunch breaks every once in a while. She said "I know you're not getting paid and rotations are really rough so just take an hour and a half off for lunch. You're a good kid so enjoy it. Nobody ever did that for me so I want to be the kind of preceptor I wish I had."

I'd rather take a 1/2 hour lunch and go home an hour earlier.

I think I'll be that type of preceptor.

 

[Sparda29]

One thing about female preceptors.

If you're a female preceptor, you should have no say in what constitutes professional dress for a male. One time this chick was always on my ass about not wearing ties or wearing polo shirts instead of regular button down shirts. I wanted to slap that preceptor across the face and say "bitch you're wearing a lab coat over a tank top and yoga pants".

 

[Diagnose]

One thing about female preceptors.

If you're a female preceptor, you should have no say in what constitutes professional dress for a male. One time this chick was always on my ass about not wearing ties or wearing polo shirts instead of regular button down shirts. I wanted to slap that preceptor across the face and say "bitch you're wearing a lab coat over a tank top and yoga pants".

muawha ha ha