A recent grads chances for 08

[mgdsh]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Let me start by saying I've done a search and can't seem to find much related to my scenario.

I'm a recent grad of a carib school who applied last year but marginally failed his Step 2 CS 😳 Never really failed a test in my life, but ah what can you do. Anyhow, I've passed my step 2 CS, gotten my diploma, become ECMFG certified, have my California PTAL (post grad training authorization letter), and passed both step 1 and step 2 CK on the first attempt.

My GPA is about a 3.4 or so. I recieved As in all my important 3rd year clerkships: Psych, IM, Surg, & FP. All my rotations were done in the US (mainly the east coast) and all my letters are from US licensed physicians: 1 IM, 1 FP, & 1 Psych. I don't have any publications and have had some research involvement (although it wasn't in Psych). Step 1 score is 215/87 and Step 2 score is 200/82. I'm pretty disappointed with my Step 2 CK score. Anyhow, I'm reapplying for psych this year. I've currently been studying for Step 3. I plan on taking it by the end of this month, or early September at the latest.

Personally, I don't think I'll fail, but anything can happen. I'm getting about 55-60% correct on Usmleworld.

My question is this, if I marginally pass Step 3, or even worse come up with a failing grade, could / would that hurt my chances? Also, would a passing Step 3 score even help me at this point, or is there something else I could/should be doing that would be more beneficial?

Any comments / advice would be appreciated. I'll be happy to disclose any other information that you feel would be relevant.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Let me start by saying I've done a search and can't seem to find much related to my scenario.

I'm a recent grad of a carib school who applied last year but marginally failed his Step 2 CS 😳 Never really failed a test in my life, but ah what can you do. Anyhow, I've passed my step 2 CS, gotten my diploma, become ECMFG certified, have my California PTAL (post grad training authorization letter), and passed both step 1 and step 2 CK on the first attempt.

My GPA is about a 3.4 or so. I recieved As in all my important 3rd year clerkships: Psych, IM, Surg, & FP. All my rotations were done in the US (mainly the east coast) and all my letters are from US licensed physicians: 1 IM, 1 FP, & 1 Psych. I don't have any publications and have had some research involvement (although it wasn't in Psych). Step 1 score is 215/87 and Step 2 score is 200/82. I'm pretty disappointed with my Step 2 CK score. Anyhow, I'm reapplying for psych this year. I've currently been studying for Step 3. I plan on taking it by the end of this month, or early September at the latest.

Personally, I don't think I'll fail, but anything can happen. I'm getting about 55-60% correct on Usmleworld.

My question is this, if I marginally pass Step 3, or even worse come up with a failing grade, could / would that hurt my chances? Also, would a passing Step 3 score even help me at this point, or is there something else I could/should be doing that would be more beneficial?

Any comments / advice would be appreciated. I'll be happy to disclose any other information that you feel would be relevant.

Passing step 3 is a bonus--as we evaluate residents, some of whom have more "question marks" than you do, we REALLY want to rank candidates who we think will actually be able to pass their exams and get licensed. Most candidates haven't taken step 3, so those that do and pass, essentially remove any lingering doubts about a re-take on an earlier step.
The other stuff in your favor is USA clinical experience and letters.
Good luck. See you in January!

 

[Anasazi23]

As usual, I agree with OPD.

Step III is big....it'll do a lot for your case. Also, your step I, and II scores are respectable. That's another plus.

I'll end by saying that you'd be surprised at the places a carrib grad can get in psych based on decent stats like yours.

Since you offered to reveal more, can I ask if you're American born?
Also, what caused you to fail Step II CS?

 

[mgdsh]

Passing step 3 is a bonus--as we evaluate residents, some of whom have more "question marks" than you do, we REALLY want to rank candidates who we think will actually be able to pass their exams and get licensed. Most candidates haven't taken step 3, so those that do and pass, essentially remove any lingering doubts about a re-take on an earlier step.
The other stuff in your favor is USA clinical experience and letters.
Good luck. See you in January!

Thanks OPD.

As usual, I agree with OPD.

Step III is big....it'll do a lot for your case. Also, your step I, and II scores are respectable. That's another plus.

I'll end by saying that you'd be surprised at the places a carrib grad can get in psych based on decent stats like yours.

Since you offered to reveal more, can I ask if you're American born?
Also, what caused you to fail Step II CS?

Thanks Anasazi.

Yep American born & raised.

I'm not sure what really caused me to fail Step II CS. I will say I did have a lot going on at that time (both of my remaining grandparents passed away with in a week of each other in the weeks prior to my exam). But I'm not sure if it was subjective grading, or if I forgot to do something in my case scenarios? It's really hard to put the blame on anyone thing. I know I did prepare for it and did not over look it. I prepared for it almost exactly the same the second time around, but passed with out any problems.

If anything, it was a really humbling experience and I can only say that overcoming it (even though it was just the CS), showed me a new experience and made me a better person. Knowing that you failed the CS, which caused you to get dropped from the match and virtually eliminated any chance of you being able to scramble (as an IMG), it definitely was tough, humbling, & eye opening, all at the same time.

 

[psychfriend]

I have a question for Anasazi and Oldpsychdoc;

With respect to mgdsh, his stats don't seem that respectable in my opinion, but I admit that I'm not qualified to make any judgements. I don't have any experience with how PD's at psych residencies evaluate candidates. I certainly support mgdsh and hope he or she has success in matching Are you speaking in regards to mgdsh's chances of getting accepted to any psych residency in the United States? There are many unfilled positions each year so it would seem that even the most uncompetitive candidate will get in somewhere.

The real question is how will a candidate like mgdsh fare at more reputable programs in major metropolitan cities? Obviously, I'm not referring to Harvard or the other top 20 programs. Also, does a guy like mgdsh have any chance at a competitive fellowship like child psych or forensics

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I have a question for Anasazi and Oldpsychdoc;

With respect to mgdsh, his stats don't seem that respectable in my opinion, but I admit that I'm not qualified to make any judgements. I don't have any experience with how PD's at psych residencies evaluate candidates. I certainly support mgdsh and hope he or she has success in matching Are you speaking in regards to mgdsh's chances of getting accepted to any psych residency in the United States? There are many unfilled positions each year so it would seem that even the most uncompetitive candidate will get in somewhere.

The real question is how will a candidate like mgdsh fare at more reputable programs in major metropolitan cities? Obviously, I'm not referring to Harvard or the other top 20 programs. Also, does a guy like mgdsh have any chance at a competitive fellowship like child psych or forensics

He passed Steps 1 & 2 and may have the advantage of applying with Step 3 a known quantity. He's presumably a fluent English speaker with a decent GPA. If his LORs are good (US clinical experience--also favorable) and he interviews well, he's definitely an above average applicant at most reputable mid-range programs, and would still have a shot at a lot of top 20 places. And yes, if he's a good resident, he'll have a fine shot at a top child program, and if so motivated and using residency to position himself well, he could get into a forensics program as well.

I've said it before on this board--prestige is WAY overrated!

 

[iqureshi7]

He passed Steps 1 & 2 and may have the advantage of applying with Step 3 a known quantity. He's presumably a fluent English speaker with a decent GPA. If his LORs are good (US clinical experience--also favorable) and he interviews well, he's definitely an above average applicant at most reputable mid-range programs, and would still have a shot at a lot of top 20 places. And yes, if he's a good resident, he'll have a fine shot at a top child program, and if so motivated and using residency to position himself well, he could get into a forensics program as well.

I've said it before on this board--prestige is WAY overrated!

OldPsychDoc:

Alot of people mention the importance of having "good" LORs. But what does that really mean? I've had the chance to look at one of my LORs. It seemed good to me. However, I'm not sure what the criteria is for a good LOR. Could you shed some light on how a rank committee/PD judge a LOR. What are they really looking for?

Thanks in advance.

 

[billypilgrim37]

...I've had the chance to look at one of my LORs. It seemed good to me.

O NOSE!!!11 You violated THE WAIVER!!!

I won't tell anybody

 

[psychfriend]

He passed Steps 1 & 2 and may have the advantage of applying with Step 3 a known quantity. He's presumably a fluent English speaker with a decent GPA. If his LORs are good (US clinical experience--also favorable) and he interviews well, he's definitely an above average applicant at most reputable mid-range programs, and would still have a shot at a lot of top 20 places. And yes, if he's a good resident, he'll have a fine shot at a top child program, and if so motivated and using residency to position himself well, he could get into a forensics program as well.

I've said it before on this board--prestige is WAY overrated!

I assumed childpsych is more competitive than forensics

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I assumed childpsych is more competitive than forensics

There's much more demand for child-adolescent psychiatrists, and many more slots in those fellowships vs. forensics.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

OldPsychDoc:

Alot of people mention the importance of having "good" LORs. But what does that really mean? I've had the chance to look at one of my LORs. It seemed good to me. However, I'm not sure what the criteria is for a good LOR. Could you shed some light on how a rank committee/PD judge a LOR. What are they really looking for?

Thanks in advance.

We're looking for some evidence that the writer knows the candidate somewhat, and wording that advocates strongly for the applicant: e.g "I worked with Dr. ___ for 4 weeks at _____. She was a delightful member of our team. blah blah blah hardworking, compassionate blah blah . An interesting thing I learned about her was ______. She will undoubtedly succeed as a house officer in any field she so desires, I wish she re staying here, blah blah you get the idea.....

 

[billypilgrim37]

I think I've heard from someone that there are really four types of letters, and getting them is sorta like a check mark system.

a) letter that says you are an idiot. Rare, written by borderline attendings.
b) letter that says you aren't an idiot, written by someone the reader doesn't know
c) letter that says you aren't an idiot, written by someone the reader does know
d) letter that says you singlehandedly kept your entire team's census to zero the entire month because of your magical healing powers, and oh yeah, stopped global warming on the side. Rare, only written by actively manic attendings.

 

[psychfriend]

There's much more demand for child-adolescent psychiatrists, and many more slots in those fellowships vs. forensics.

Are you saying there is more demand (aka more applications) for child psych fellowships but there are far fewer forensics fellowships available so it's anyone's best guess as to which is more competitive?

 

[Anasazi23]

I think that the applicant in question falls into the middle ground of applicants nationwide. Top 20 will be longer shot considering the CS failure and Caribbean med school, but some will consider him.

It's sort of hard to say in the long run....although there are unfilled psych spots in many states, these programs vary considerably in quality - never mind prestige. If one casts a wide-enough net, they will get a residency, though again I must qualify this with the fact that we've had people even on this board have to sit out a year with marginal stats and having casted a wide net. On the other hand, I know some residents who are overseas grads, and have failed step I, and/or II multiple times and wind up in respectable programs.

I think that to say one "will be fine" or conversely "has no chance of getting in" are both extremes and may either instill the applicant false hope or unneeded dread. Stupid things like spelling and grammar mistakes in your ERAS, or writing a personal statement that could be used as a case studyshould obviously should obviously avoided. A well manicured ERAS, PS and letters can get you surprisingly far. However, there are some programs that will throw your app in the garbage as soon as they see a step I or II failure. You won't make it past the initial screen, which scarily, is often the office secretary (a.k.a administrator) being instructed to look at the numbers and print out all the apps with Step I/II above X.

 

[sga430]

take the NBME b4 taking step 3 and make sure u pass it. also look where the thumb points 👎

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Are you saying there is more demand (aka more applications) for child psych fellowships but there are far fewer forensics fellowships available so it's anyone's best guess as to which is more competitive?

No, I'm saying that there is a much greater demand for CAP services in the community, and many more slots available. Many reputable programs do not fill in the fellowship match, and a motivated resident with a good track record can usually get a spot somewhere--even if they are originally an IMG at a mid-range program.

Forensic slots are a very scarce commodity, so you need to be a bit more focused as a resident about getting into one.