A vs B, Pick One

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School A or School B?

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    40
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threemileisle

threemileisle

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Okay, I'm going to try framing my internal debate differently. Assume all of the below are indisputable facts. Which do you choose?

School A
  • Costs 50k more, pre-interest.
  • Top clinical program.
  • Culture of supportive students and faculty.
  • You don't know if you want to specialize, but this schools offers a SLIGHT, perhaps insignificant, edge in the ability to specialize.
  • 2000 miles from home, family, friends, significant other.
  • More urban city.
School B
  • 50k cheaper, probably closer to 80k after interest.
  • Average clinical program. Neither terrible nor exceptional.
  • Poor culture, many students have been reported to be unhappy.
  • Many students match into residencies, but perhaps not quite at the same rate as the first school.
  • 200 miles from home.
  • Safer city.
In spite of A offering what is a better education, with a superior clinic, in a more support environment, would most people still select B due to the overriding factors of cost and proximity?
 
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B. 50k more won't be just 50k by the time you graduate, it will be more like 80k. About clinically strong schools, I have talked to different dentists to ask which school produced more competitive dentist. All of them answered students from different schools. So IMO, it depends on the student, not the school. At least for me, I rather be unhappy for 4 years of d-school than stressing about the loan that I just signed for.
 
Honestly, if your plans is to become general dentist and make money as soon as possible, go to B. If you want more, go to A for your own good.
 
School B because to me the burden of extra debt outweighs any of its positives. Also if school B isn't as fun/enjoyable you're not too far from home so you can leave for a weekend or have friends/family come visit to cheer you up.
 
@threemileisle I would undoubtedly choose School B.

50k, which will be closer to 100k after interest, is nothing to sneeze at. Instead of putting future earnings toward loans to pay off the extra you accrued because you attended School A, you will be able to put it toward things like your future practice and lifestyle.

As far as people being unhappy, I believe that there are unhappy people and happy people at every school. No school is perfect, and I am sure that you will be able to find like-minded people no matter where you end up.

I personally don't think an average clinical program is a negative. It's definitely a neutral. And from speaking to dentists whom I've shadowed, they've told me that they learned a lot more through CE's and practicing as dentists than they did during dental school An average clinical program is good enough to turn out competent dentists, and from there what kind of dentist you are going to be is completely up to you. And to add to that, I also believe your education is more what you make of it than anything else. I cannot imagine that there would be a school whose culture would be so poor that a motivated and hardworking student would not be able to find support and positivity.

I also would not underestimate the benefits of being only 200 miles away from home. That makes it very possible to make a quick weekend trip home if you need, and if you are close with your family I'm sure that both you and your family members will appreciate the fact that you are closer and therefore will be able to actually receive physical support when times get tough in dental school, which will undoubtedly happen. I say this because in college I envied the people who were able to make the 200 mile trip home when they needed, whereas I was unable to see my family as much because they lived halfway across the country.
 
@stomatology

Thanks for the very thoughtful response. What makes me hesitate isn't that the students at School A seem to be just slightly happier -- it's that every student at School A has been overwhelmingly positive, while every student I've talked to at School B has been critical of their school. The disparity is significant and they seem to lie on opposite ends of the spectrum. But perhaps you're telling me, as long as one's clinical training isn't inferior (and it gets smoothed out after working for a few years no matter which school one attends), then no matter how large the gap is, it shouldn't be a major consideration. Would you agree with this?
 
threemileisle said:
@stomatology

Thanks for the very thoughtful response. What makes me hesitate isn't that the students at School A seem to be just slightly happier -- it's that every student at School A has been overwhelmingly positive, while every student I've talked to at School B has been critical of their school. The disparity is significant and they seem to lie on opposite ends of the spectrum. But perhaps you're telling me, as long as one's clinical training isn't inferior (and it gets smoothed out after working for a few years no matter which school one attends), then no matter how large the gap is, it shouldn't be a major consideration. Would you agree with this?
Click to expand...

Yeah I would agree with that. If you had said that School B had one of the worst clinical programs, that could have changed my response. If the training is average/adequate then it will get smoothed out. It will probably happen even faster if you do decide to do a residency of some sort, based on what I have heard from people I know who are recent grads and have done an AEGD or some other sort of residency.

I'm not sure what to tell you regarding the potential happiness issue. Is there any possibility that you could get in touch with more students from School B before you have to make your decision?

If I'm honest, my brother (who is an entering 4th year) has not been too happy at his dental school. He really wanted to attend an OOS school that would have been double in cost to what he is paying at the state school he is attending. It hasn't always been an easy road for him, and his school (not UNLV lol) didn't have some resources that would have made things easier for him, but he's doing well and still has friends and manages to have fun. And since it's the state school, it's much closer to family and he is able to go home whenever he wants, which he likes. I asked him about your situation before I typed my response, and he told me that although his dream school might have made him happier for 4 years (or it might not have), but he's really glad that he's not going to have to pay those loans. The price difference was higher than yours is, so I don't know how much of that applies to you.
 
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threemileisle said:
Okay, I'm going to try framing my internal debate differently. Assume all of the below are indisputable facts. Which do you choose?

School A
  • Costs 50k more, pre-interest.
  • Top clinical program.
  • Culture of supportive students and faculty.
  • You don't know if you want to specialize, but this schools offers a SLIGHT, perhaps insignificant, edge in the ability to specialize.
  • 2000 miles from home, family, friends, significant other.
  • More urban city.
School B
  • 50k cheaper, probably closer to 100k after interest.
  • Average clinical program. Neither terrible nor exceptional.
  • Poor culture, many students have been reported to be unhappy.
  • Many students match into residencies, but perhaps not quite at the same rate as the first school.
  • 200 miles from home.
  • Safer city.
In spite of A offering what is a better education, with a superior clinic, in a more support environment, would most people still select B due to the overriding factors of cost and proximity?
Click to expand...

B. No question about it.
 
stomatology said:
Yeah I would agree with that. If you had said that School B had one of the worst clinical programs, that could have changed my response. If the training is average/adequate then it will get smoothed out. It will probably happen even faster if you do decide to do a residency of some sort, based on what I have heard from people I know who are recent grads and have done an AEGD or some other sort of residency.

I'm not sure what to tell you regarding the potential happiness issue. Is there any possibility that you could get in touch with more students from School B before you have to make your decision?

If I'm honest, my brother (who is an entering 4th year) has not been too happy at his dental school. He really wanted to attend an OOS school that would have been double in cost to what he is paying at the state school he is attending. It hasn't always been an easy road for him, and his school (not UNLV lol) didn't have some resources that would have made things easier for him, but he's doing well and still has friends and manages to have fun. And since it's the state school, it's much closer to family and he is able to go home whenever he wants, which he likes. I asked him about your situation before I typed my response, and he told me that although his dream school might have made him happier for 4 years (or it might not have), but he's really glad that he's not going to have to pay those loans. The price difference was higher than yours is, so I don't know how much of that applies to you.
Click to expand...
^ +1
I'm sure most people on this thread chose "School B" because of this. Keep that in mind, OP.
 
If you have the money, I would personally suggest A. You will be there for 4 years of your life and I believe that everyone should try and go out of their comfort zone (whether it is a new city or a different university). Right now it might seem like an easy decision, but after you are 2 years deep in your dental school career...your mind might change. Just my 2 cents.
 
Aside from the cost being substantially more, it's not an aspect of a school that I take into consideration. Also being a top clinical program is great and it will provide lots of practice, but I'm sure B will provide the same. At that point of dental training you should understand your weaknesses clinically and make efforts to build up your weaknesses.

Your education is what you make of it. I prefer a community of health professionals who will push me to pursue my ambitions when things get rough. Also the opportunity to do additional activities, like research, is a plus for me.You're going to be in that program for at least 4 years and I will not knowingly put myself into conditions that will not help nurture my future.

Family and friends will be far, but even if I was close I honestly wouldn't have time to spend with them. If I need to talk or see them I can just give them a call. Sounds kind of ****ed up but while I still live at home I hardly see them. My girlfriend is a different story, but both of our professional goals keep us busy. We recognize that and support each other completely.

The medical opportunity to help an urban city that is socioeconomically variable is an important facet to my ambitions in dentistry. The opportunity to continue fulfilling my career goals is a no brainer personally and it seems like A will be able to provide that for me.




meow
 
stomatology said:
Yeah I would agree with that. If you had said that School B had one of the worst clinical programs, that could have changed my response. If the training is average/adequate then it will get smoothed out. It will probably happen even faster if you do decide to do a residency of some sort, based on what I have heard from people I know who are recent grads and have done an AEGD or some other sort of residency.

I'm not sure what to tell you regarding the potential happiness issue. Is there any possibility that you could get in touch with more students from School B before you have to make your decision?

If I'm honest, my brother (who is an entering 4th year) has not been too happy at his dental school. He really wanted to attend an OOS school that would have been double in cost to what he is paying at the state school he is attending. It hasn't always been an easy road for him, and his school (not UNLV lol) didn't have some resources that would have made things easier for him, but he's doing well and still has friends and manages to have fun. And since it's the state school, it's much closer to family and he is able to go home whenever he wants, which he likes. I asked him about your situation before I typed my response, and he told me that although his dream school might have made him happier for 4 years (or it might not have), but he's really glad that he's not going to have to pay those loans. The price difference was higher than yours is, so I don't know how much of that applies to you.
Click to expand...

I've gotten a fair sample size and I feel like, at this point, my only purpose in continuing to reach out to people would be to grasp at straws until I find that one overwhelmingly positive person who's able to offer me imaginary peace of mind.

The rest of what you said is very insightful. I feel like I'm going to be your brother. If he had to make the choice over now, would he make the same decision? Whatever I do, I fear I'm gonna have regrets. I guess it's just a matter of sucking it up, making a decision, and not looking back.
 
derbear said:
If you have the money, I would personally suggest A. You will be there for 4 years of your life and I believe that everyone should try and go out of their comfort zone (whether it is a new city or a different university). Right now it might seem like an easy decision, but after you are 2 years deep in your dental school career...your mind might change. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

If I were 20 or even 25, I'd be right there with you. I'm all for establishing new roots, seeing the world, and all that jazz, but for me, it's been there, done that. I'm a 30+ non-trad and honestly, I just want my d-school experience to be as stress-free as possible, keeping any drama to a minimum, while receiving the best possible education. Also, it's not a huge factor, but I actually prefer the location of B to the location of A. Problem is, if my clinical experience would suffer significantly at B, I'd be doing myself a disservice by selecting B over A. As for money thing, everything's gonna be paid through loans.
 
BrazilianRider said:
You clearly don't want to go to School B. Just pick School A and get it over with.
Click to expand...

Not sure how you reached that conclusion. I actually was very fond of B when I interviewed with them, including the city/facilities/curriculum, but the response I've gotten from current students has thrown me for a loop. I'm trying to convince myself that, even if what I've heard isn't just noise, it's a variable that really isn't all that important. Regardless, the allure of staying close to home and saying 80k isn't easily ignored.

If you want to say my heart is with A, then you'd be onto something, but hearts don't always make the wisest decisions.

This isn't just a mental exercise where I've already made up my mind and am just waiting for people to tell me what I want to hear. We're all just strangers on a forum, but I'm taking every piece of advice any of you has to offer and plugging it in so I can make the best possible decision.
 
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threemileisle said:
If he had to make the choice over now, would he make the same decision?
Click to expand...
Yes, he undoubtedly would. He's a very cost-conscious person by nature so I cannot imagine him ignoring the price difference if the end outcome and education are roughly equivalent.
 
go with UNLV. Of the schools that I interviewed at, it certainly wasn't the one with the happiest students, nicest facilities or best experience but it looks like it more than got the job done. The thought of saving 80K plus interest would be sustaining enough for me to not have any huge regrets about my school decision. The same couldn't be said if you made the choice off of feelings. Besides, I doubt any of us will have an experience in dental school that will mirror our preconceptions made from interview day.
 
threemileisle said:
Not sure how you reached that conclusion. I actually was very fond of B when I interviewed with them, including the city/facilities/curriculum, but the response I've gotten from current students has thrown me for a loop. I'm trying to convince myself that, even if what I've heard isn't just noise, it's a variable that really isn't all that important. Regardless, the allure of staying close to home and saying 80k isn't easily ignored.

If you want to say my heart is with A, then you'd be onto something, but hearts don't always make the wisest decisions.

This isn't just a mental exercise where I've already made up my mind and am just waiting for people to tell me what I want to hear. We're all just strangers on a forum, but I'm taking every piece of advice any of you has to offer and plugging it in so I can make the best possible decision.
Click to expand...

Flip a coin then. In that split second where the coin is in the air, you'll know exactly where you want to go and buy a burrito.

Or something like that.
 
Neither UDM nor UNLV are better than the other, they're about equal (education, prestige, etc... pretty much everything except cost and location). So other factors should be way more important in your decision.

Personally, UNLV >>> UDM in my opinion, considering I absolutely cannot stand the area of Detroit that UDM is in.
 
Dentalguy8621 said:
100k is a very big amount in my eyes. Some people are wealthier therefore see it differently.
Click to expand...
All I said is that price isn't an issue when it comes to my school consideration. I'm not wealthy. I just think money shouldn't be used as a determining factor for the school when they provide you the resources to support your career goals.


meow
 
Thanks for the feedback, everybody! This is why I love SDN. Along with the responses I got on this thread, a couple of people wrote me very thoughtful PMs for which I am very grateful. It helped me organize and solidify my thoughts. I feel much more informed than I did yesterday and better able to make an enlightened decision -- hopefully one that won't incur regret one day, no matter where the road leads. If anybody else has any more input, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, I'll take the next week to mull it over before notifying the schools involved of my decision. Now back to your regularly scheduled discussions on schools, interviews, chancing, and how to crop to a 2x2 photo.
 
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KermitMorgenstein said:
All I said is that price isn't an issue when it comes to my school consideration. I'm not wealthy. I just think money shouldn't be used as a determining factor for the school when they provide you the resources to support your career goals.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this kind of thinking can have consequences that last for MANY years.

Dentistry is lucrative, but even am extra 100k accruing interest at 6.21% a year is substantial.

Granted, I did not go to the least expensive school. However, the difference in price was around 30k total. I think that 50k would have been my breaking point.
 
I went with option C because everyone i met thinks i'm somewhat weird.

But option B = less loans = less pain in the ass.
 
@threemileisle ... I was exactly in the same situation, but it was medical school...

School A: 320k COA and much happier students

School B: 250k COA

That 70k difference plus interest is about 1k loan repayment for 10 years. I am in my 30s just like you, and I said to myself that I should be able to tough it out for next four years at school B for the price of not paying 1k/month for 10 years... Being at the school right now, I don't think it's that bad. Sure I think there are things they could do better, but it does not worth being 100k+ in the red after med school just to avoid these small little things...
 
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KermitMorgenstein said:
All I said is that price isn't an issue when it comes to my school consideration. I'm not wealthy. I just think money shouldn't be used as a determining factor for the school when they provide you the resources to support your career goals.
Click to expand...
Lol, no you said that cost shouldn't be used as a determining factor if it is not substantially higher.
KermitMorgenstein said:
Aside from the cost being substantially more, it's not an aspect of a school that I take into consideration.
Click to expand...
That's quite different than saying that you believe cost shouldn't be taken into consideration at all when determining school choice. It's also how the other poster got the idea that you may be wealthy and therefore your definition of substantial could be different. And I don't see why you took it as a negative. In general, it's true that people of different circumstances see and value money differently.

Glimmer1991 said:
Unfortunately, this kind of thinking can have consequences that last for MANY years.

Dentistry is lucrative, but even am extra 100k accruing interest at 6.21% a year is substantial.

Granted, I did not go to the least expensive school. However, the difference in price was around 30k total. I think that 50k would have been my breaking point.
Click to expand...
I would agree with this. I don't think that cost should be the end all be all consideration, but it should carry significant weight if the difference in price is 50+k total.
 
I think the point isn't to determine the exact figure that needs to be hit before crossing Kermit's threshold in evaluating the relative importance of cost against [insert other consideration here]. Putting aside the diction he used to deliver his message, it seems to me what he meant was that as important as the price tag is, it isn't everything and that other factors, just because they can't easily be quantified, should not be completely disregarded. I think that's something everybody agrees with. 80k is a huge sum, but is it crippling? Depends on the individual. If choosing the better school with the better instruction results in a long-term gain in annual salary of 10% a year, then it quickly pays for itself. Of course, that's a complete hypothetical and, as far as I know, there are no studies charting earning potential vs d-school vs area of practice (this would be interesting to see!). I could be swayed if A offered a higher residency match rate than B, but the numbers I've gotten from both schools are very similar.

Anyway, the cost+proximity is a killer combination I'm finding difficult to overcome. It's also possible that the difference in COA may actually come out to 140k. That would definitely clinch it for me and I'd be a fool not to take it, no matter what other advantages A offers.
 
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I certainly didn't mean that that 50+k should be the cutoff for everyone. I was speaking about my personal opinion, and of course I do not believe that everyone should necessarily have the same view.

Anyway, good luck OP in making your decision, whichever way you decide to go I'm sure you'll be making the best decision for yourself. At the end of the day, you're the only one who knows what is best for you.
 
stomatology said:
I certainly didn't mean that that 50+k should be the cutoff for everyone. I was speaking about my personal opinion, and of course I do not believe that everyone should necessarily have the same view.

Anyway, good luck OP in making your decision, whichever way you decide to go I'm sure you'll be making the best decision for yourself. At the end of the day, you're the only one who knows what is best for you.
Click to expand...

👍
 
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